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post #361 of 1267 Old 07-30-2014, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
I want to buy Lawrence of Arabia and It Happened One Night, but for some reason they raised the price $5 to $34.99 and made it available to rent for $7.99 as well. I think that's a mistake, since all catalog movies should be $29.99 and new release $34.99. I might just go ahead and rent It Happened One Night, but I need more than 24 hours for Lawrence, since that movie is 3 1/2 hours long.
To my knowledge Lawrence of Arabia was always $34.99 and you can download and then rent so it does not really matter how long it takes you to download.
Pricing certainly is an issue for people but then it is the first real 4k movie content in homes. In any case older and shorter catalog titles would seem to be more sensibly priced at $29.99 when compared to new releases that are only 5$ more.
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post #362 of 1267 Old 07-30-2014, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ggw2000 View Post
I think Sony would be better since it's a d/l and playing off HDD. But it will be nice to have a second opinion with the 3 way comparison.....
Gerry

Yes there's going to be a visible difference, depending on the content (with animated there would be less difference). The difference in bitrate is just too massive. The question is how much and whether it's worth it, and how close do you have to be to notice it.

Obviously with 1080p vs 4K content you're getting into diminishing returns. That's part of the reason some people aren't impressed. That along with the fact that some people are sitting too far away to appreciate it.

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post #363 of 1267 Old 07-30-2014, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post
To my knowledge Lawrence of Arabia was always $34.99 and you can download and then rent so it does not really matter how long it takes you to download.
Pricing certainly is an issue for people but then it is the first real 4k movie content in homes. In any case older and shorter catalog titles would seem to be more sensibly priced at $29.99 when compared to new releases that are only 5$ more.
I read it was $29.99 on that list of 4K movies, could have been a mistake though. Oh well, I'll just have to buy it since it's like two movies long and a true classic with lots of lovely detail to look at.

I'll probably just end up renting It Happened One Night if I ever get around to it. I watched the preview and it didn't look too good though. That movie isn't even out on Blu-ray yet.
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post #364 of 1267 Old 07-30-2014, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
Yes there's going to be a visible difference, depending on the content (with animated there would be less difference). The difference in bitrate is just too massive. The question is how much and whether it's worth it, and how close do you have to be to notice it.

Obviously with 1080p vs 4K content you're getting into diminishing returns. That's part of the reason some people aren't impressed. That along with the fact that some people are sitting too far away to appreciate it.
Agree...

Honestly the 4K content on Netflix is pretty darn good on the X10 and I would be hard pressed to be able to tell much of a difference if any in a blind A/B test between A Breaking Bad episode from last season between Netflix and Sony's store. The Youtube 4K downloaded files are pretty impressive as well. I agree the difference between 1080P and 4K is noticeable but hard to tell especially since those of us with the Sony TV's have been spoiled and grown accustomed to the great 4K up conversion.
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post #365 of 1267 Old 07-30-2014, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Reyfam View Post
Agree...

Honestly the 4K content on Netflix is pretty darn good on the X10 and I would be hard pressed to be able to tell much of a difference if any in a blind A/B test between A Breaking Bad episode from last season between Netflix and Sony's store. The Youtube 4K downloaded files are pretty impressive as well. I agree the difference between 1080P and 4K is noticeable but hard to tell especially since those of us with the Sony TV's have been spoiled and grown accustomed to the great 4K up conversion.



That's a great point. From close viewing range (the 4k "zone": 4-8 feet on a 65"), we're perhaps more likely to notice a greater difference between 1080p vs. upscaled 1080p, than between 1080p upscaled vs. 4k. After all, DVD upscaling is the reason why most consumers are still happy with it.

Also another good point about the the blind test. It's easy to spot differences with a direct A-B comparision, but passing a blind test is another matter.
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post #366 of 1267 Old 07-30-2014, 04:57 PM
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Got my X10 from Crutchfield. Shipped from VA to WV. Double box FULL of peanuts.
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post #367 of 1267 Old 07-30-2014, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DiscoSmoke View Post
Got my X10 from Crutchfield. Shipped from VA to WV. Double box FULL of peanuts.
When I received mine direct from Sony it was just the exposed box.

I can also confirm that their network transfer is capped at 30mbps,which is a shame because I'd like to take advantage of my 110mbps connection.
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post #368 of 1267 Old 07-30-2014, 07:31 PM
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When I received mine direct from Sony it was just the exposed box.

I can also confirm that their network transfer is capped at 30mbps,which is a shame because I'd like to take advantage of my 110mbps connection.
30mbs is not that bad. It would be difficult for any provider to allow 100mbs downloads for multiple simultaneous customers.

It would be very helpful if you could time how long it takes to download a movie or clip, monitor the network throughput, and then observe the disk space statistic to get the size of the file you just downloaded. This would allow us to come up with a rough estimate of how long it takes to download a file based on the length of the movie/clip and the sustained network throughput.

I don't think we have anything more accurate at this point other than "it takes forever". Of course, unless you are staring at the box, it probably will be difficult to assess when the download completed.

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post #369 of 1267 Old 07-30-2014, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
30mbs is not that bad. It would be difficult for any provider to allow 100mbs downloads for multiple simultaneous customers.

It would be very helpful if you could time how long it takes to download a movie or clip, monitor the network throughput, and then observe the disk space statistic to get the size of the file you just downloaded. This would allow us to come up with a rough estimate of how long it takes to download a file based on the length of the movie/clip and the sustained network throughput.

I don't think we have anything more accurate at this point other than "it takes forever". Of course, unless you are staring at the box, it probably will be difficult to assess when the download completed.
How do you monitor the network throughput?
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post #370 of 1267 Old 07-30-2014, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
How do you monitor the network throughput?
I have the X1, and if you click on the Settings button, there is a setting for the network which also has a display box that shows the current download speed.

I am assuming the X10 has a similar feature.

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post #371 of 1267 Old 07-30-2014, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I have the X1, and if you click on the Settings button, there is a setting for the network which also has a display box that shows the current download speed.

I am assuming the X10 has a similar feature.
I'll have to look for that later (my step son is playing the Xbox One on it now). I'm downloading Lawrence of Arabia now, and I did note the time the download started and the amount of memory on the hard drive. If one knows the file size and how long it took to download, then you can solve for x the average download speed, right? Lawrence of Arabia is 228 minutes long and it was at 12% complete after about 80 minutes. So at that rate it would take about 11 hours to download, while I guess a 2 hour movie would take about 6 hours.
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post #372 of 1267 Old 07-30-2014, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
I'll have to look for that later (my step son is playing the Xbox One on it now). I'm downloading Lawrence of Arabia now, and I did note the time the download started and the amount of memory on the hard drive. If one knows the file size and how long it took to download, then you can solve for x the average download speed, right? Lawrence of Arabia is 228 minutes long and it was at 12% complete after about 80 minutes. So at that rate it would take about 11 hours to download, while I guess a 2 hour movie would take about 6 hours.
Yes, the Download Speed display box still appears in the Settings section of My 4K Videos. Same ol' bright red background...

There is another Network Status icon at the top of the Home screen. When selected that will only tell you if you're connected via wifi or wired LAN.
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post #373 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 12:23 AM
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My prevailing download speed is around 18 mbps. Storage was 280.3 GB when I started the download and now it says 358.9 GB. Although the DL is only 39% full after 4 hours and 20 minutes, total storage has remained at 358.9 GB for a while now. So I assume that what it will be with the entire movie downloaded. That makes the file size 78.6 GB. So at 3 hours 48 minutes in length, the total bitrate for the movie is around 49 mbps (with the video portion probably over 45 mbps). A 78.6 GB file would take about 10 hours to download @ 18 mbps.

Are these Sony files encoded in the more efficient H.265 codec?

Is there a way to see what the streaming bitrate is for a Netflix movie?

Last edited by bruceames; 07-31-2014 at 12:37 AM.
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post #374 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 02:21 AM
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Well, i have been up and running for a week and aside from how happy I am with my X850B (that's another thread) I super jazzed about the X10. Performance in every way is terrific. At least in my case Elysium, Total Recall, and Looper were already on the drive ready to go. I'm downloading Monuments Men now, and that's the only area I am disappointed in. It's friggin 4 am and as the link below shows, I have a fat pipe, yet I am getting not even 9 mibbles....wtf. Oh well, certainly not a deal breaker and as beat to hell as the box was from Sony direct, i am pretty happy that it even works. So between the TV at 3299 (no tax special) and the box at 499 (cause...well read the thread), my ass does hurt a little but I'd do it again anytime. Oh, and I'm at 323g used and that was a few minutes after starting MonumentMen.


Still, I have to complain, I'm not running a damn thing other than the box, no torrents, nothing, and i just checked again, 8.2 mibs......sigh. I guess i should be happy ultimately though, if Google wasn't moving in to Austin, TW wouldn't have more than doubled everyone's speed "for free"...ugh, w/e, I can still torrent a whole season of GoT faster than I can make dinner.


BTW, my Netflix runs great, really impressed with the quality, and after several tests its up and running at 4k in less than 4 seconds every time, sometimes as little as about 2. I sure do love my expensive ass sony crap!

edit - don't forget aboot this eh, last day to redeem, http://store.sony.com/-cms-page.content.movie.marketing

Edit II: The Next Day! - checked again, 9.6 mibbles. I guess some folks are just never gonna get 30. No biggie, as far as I know, the world won't come to an end, at least Netflix runs like a champ.
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post #375 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 05:16 AM
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I read it was $29.99 on that list of 4K movies, could have been a mistake though. Oh well, I'll just have to buy it since it's like two movies long and a true classic with lots of lovely detail to look at.

I'll probably just end up renting It Happened One Night if I ever get around to it. I watched the preview and it didn't look too good though. That movie isn't even out on Blu-ray yet.
Wonder how Sony got rights to "It happened one Night"? It's a good movie, although made in 1934 it did win 5 academy awards including Best Picture.
Shouldn't be that expensive though.
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post #376 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
My prevailing download speed is around 18 mbps. Storage was 280.3 GB when I started the download and now it says 358.9 GB. Although the DL is only 39% full after 4 hours and 20 minutes, total storage has remained at 358.9 GB for a while now. So I assume that what it will be with the entire movie downloaded. That makes the file size 78.6 GB. So at 3 hours 48 minutes in length, the total bitrate for the movie is around 49 mbps (with the video portion probably over 45 mbps). A 78.6 GB file would take about 10 hours to download @ 18 mbps.

Are these Sony files encoded in the more efficient H.265 codec?

Is there a way to see what the streaming bitrate is for a Netflix movie?
Thanks, Bruce. This gives us a good idea of the throughput.

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post #377 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 06:29 AM
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Wonder how Sony got rights to "It happened one Night"? It's a good movie, although made in 1934 it did win 5 academy awards including Best Picture.
Shouldn't be that expensive though.
Sony got the rights when they bought Columbia Pictures, which is part of their library.


BTW, Lawrence of Arabia just finished downloading at 10 hours and 25 minutes.
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post #378 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 06:35 AM
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Is there a way to see what the streaming bitrate is for a Netflix movie?
Netflix 1080p (Super HD) runs at 5800Mbps. I read that 4K Netflix tops out around 13Mbps. Until there is a video like "Example Short 23.976" currently available on their non 4K service, one can only speculate on their 4K streaming speed.

Sony said they shipped my X10 today.

Still curious to learn the outcome of my 10 phantom movies from the X1.
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post #379 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 07:24 AM
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Netflix 1080p (Super HD) runs at 5800Mbps. I read that 4K Netflix tops out around 13Mbps. Until there is a video like "Example Short 23.976" currently available on their non 4K service, one can only speculate on their 4K streaming speed.

Sony said they shipped my X10 today.

Still curious to learn the outcome of my 10 phantom movies from the X1.
That makes sense, since they recommend 20mbps for 4k and 10mbps for 1080p. Even though the "peak" streaming bit rate would be only around 13 mbps, the "peak" bitrate of the movie itself would be much higher, since it's encoded with the variable bit rate.

Still that leaves Netflix with only about 25% of the bit rate of Sony 4K movies.

Sounds like you'll be able to keep those 10 movies from reading a few previous posts. I wish Sony would have at least included one measly movie with this, just to get the ball rolling.
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post #380 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by TcdF22b2 View Post
Well, i have been up and running for a week and aside from how happy I am with my X850B (that's another thread) I super jazzed about the X10. Performance in every way is terrific. At least in my case Elysium, Total Recall, and Looper were already on the drive ready to go. I'm downloading Monuments Men now, and that's the only area I am disappointed in. It's friggin 4 am and as the link below shows, I have a fat pipe, yet I am getting not even 9 mibbles....wtf. Oh well, certainly not a deal breaker and as beat to hell as the box was from Sony direct, i am pretty happy that it even works. So between the TV at 3299 (no tax special) and the box at 499 (cause...well read the thread), my ass does hurt a little but I'd do it again anytime. Oh, and I'm at 323g used and that was a few minutes after starting MonumentMen.


Still, I have to complain, I'm not running a damn thing other than the box, no torrents, nothing, and i just checked again, 8.2 mibs......sigh. I guess i should be happy ultimately though, if Google wasn't moving in to Austin, TW wouldn't have more than doubled everyone's speed "for free"...ugh, w/e, I can still torrent a whole season of GoT faster than I can make dinner.


BTW, my Netflix runs great, really impressed with the quality, and after several tests its up and running at 4k in less than 4 seconds every time, sometimes as little as about 2. I sure do love my expensive ass sony crap!

edit - don't forget aboot this eh, last day to redeem, http://store.sony.com/-cms-page.content.movie.marketing
Very odd that many people (including myself) aren't getting the max 30 mbps d/l speed even though the bandwidth requirements are met. I wonder if it has to do with where you live and the available bandwidth from the Sony pipes? I'd rather have the 30mbps, but 18 is OK I guess. Even if it was at 30, it's not like the movie is going to download fast enough to watch it that same evening. A 2 hour movie at 18mbps will take a little over 5 hours and over 3 hours at 30 mbps. So in any case it would be an overnight thing for me.

I plan to hook up an external when the drive gets full and it looks like a 4 TB drive will hold around 100 movies (plus the 25 or so on the internal). Don't think I'll ever own 125 movies from Sony, although I might rent that many at some point.
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post #381 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 07:39 AM
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Thanks, Bruce. This gives us a good idea of the throughput.
I remember reading somewhere on the Sony site that the download time for the x10 was estimated at 4 times the length of the clip. So Bruce is doing better than that. Still an eternity though unless you plan your viewings in advance.

Edit: Found it on the FMP-X10 manual under Troubleshooting on the Sony website:

It takes a long time to complete a content download.
  • Depending on the amount of content and your network environment, it will often take about 4 times the running time of the content to complete a download. For example, it will take about nine hours to completely download a two-hour movie if the transmission speed is 10 Mbps on average.
  • The 4K Media Player offers users the option to automatically download new titles when they are released. If you choose this option, you will be able to play those titles from the local storage.

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post #382 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
I plan to hook up an external when the drive gets full and it looks like a 4 TB drive will hold around 100 movies (plus the 25 or so on the internal). Don't think I'll ever own 125 movies from Sony, although I might rent that many at some point.
me neither, but whenever the 4k standard is hacked, whether its a variant of bd or some new disc version entirely, it will be nice to just rip them to the drive so you can keep the disc put away scratch free.....assuming Sony doesn't interfere with some wacky DRM, I'm just thinking out loud though.
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post #383 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 09:52 AM
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I remember reading somewhere on the Sony site that the download time for the x10 was estimated at 4 times the length of the clip. So Bruce is doing better than that. Still an eternity though unless you plan your viewings in advance.
I am pretty shocked that having a movie around 10 hours after deciding to rent or buy it is a problem these days. What happened to ordering a Blu-ray and waiting for a few days for it to arrive? Now you can get better quality in even less time and call it an eternity I know you did not mean this in such a negative way but I fear that at some point in the future we all may have to regress to some low bitrate streaming crap because of the overall perception that everybody wants to watch a movie in the very moment that the thought of it crosses his mind.
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post #384 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 10:01 AM
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[/B]
Also another good point about the the blind test. It's easy to spot differences with a direct A-B comparision, but passing a blind test is another matter.
In my experience the difference is big enough to show up in a double blind test at the correct seating distance.

This is from watching trailers for both Total Recall and After Earth back to back with their Blu-ray counterparts. Interestingly enough there was just about zero difference in the scene in question between the "normal" and the "Mastered in 4k" Blu-ray version of Total Recall but a substantial difference to the 4k version. This was at about 13ft away from a close to 12ft wide screen.

Of course the ultimate test would be to output the same file once in 4k and once in 1080p - I predict that doing that would show a substantially smaller difference, especially if the color stays at full resolution.
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post #385 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by LeeSoFl View Post
Netflix 1080p (Super HD) runs at 5800Mbps. I read that 4K Netflix tops out around 13Mbps. Until there is a video like "Example Short 23.976" currently available on their non 4K service, one can only speculate on their 4K streaming speed.

Sony said they shipped my X10 today.

Still curious to learn the outcome of my 10 phantom movies from the X1.

Lee I called the 855 number again today. That is their 4K service number. I explained my prompt again since I hadn't heard from Sony and they were vaguely aware of what I was talking about.
They then switched me to the SEN number and I spoke to someone else. They weren't to sure of what I was talking about but said someone who handles something like this would call me in a few days.

Still no resolution but I will continue to see what happens.

Something in their system did see that I had purchased the movie on the X1 and gave me a error code so I still have hope.
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post #386 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by dreaux View Post
Lee I called the 855 number again today. That is their 4K service number. I explained my prompt again since I hadn't heard from Sony and they were vaguely aware of what I was talking about.
They then switched me to the SEN number and I spoke to someone else. They weren't to sure of what I was talking about but said someone who handles something like this would call me in a few days.

Still no resolution but I will continue to see what happens.

Something in their system did see that I had purchased the movie on the X1 and gave me a error code so I still have hope.
Be interesting to see if they pick up on their follow-through.

I expect the player here Mon or Tues, and am going to take the simplest approach. Connect to the internet, sign in and see if those prior 10 movies are available to re-download. If not, I'll install the external drive and see if it picks up the films there, or tells me to format again for use with the X10, and in the process wipe the drive clean of those "moved" movies.
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post #387 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post
I am pretty shocked that having a movie around 10 hours after deciding to rent or buy it is a problem these days. What happened to ordering a Blu-ray and waiting for a few days for it to arrive? Now you can get better quality in even less time and call it an eternity I know you did not mean this in such a negative way but I fear that at some point in the future we all may have to regress to some low bitrate streaming crap because of the overall perception that everybody wants to watch a movie in the very moment that the thought of it crosses his mind.
I fear streaming is the future but perhaps the H.265 will reduce the files sizes and the download times. Sony needs to reduce the prices of the downloads I believe, after all they are not sending out physical media like a blu-ray disk which would cost them more. Sony needs some competitors for 4K delivery. Until then they will charge what they want because they can.
I am waiting until the prices come down to buy.
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post #388 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 10:32 AM
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Little Help with 2 questions...

My X10 arrived today from Crutchfield and will probably hook it up today. But I have two questions as far as procedure if I can get some help.

1. I do not have a SEN or 4K Unlimited account (not even sure which of these it would be) and need to know where do I go to get one setup before plugging in
X10? Do I set one up using my computer? If so, what is the website that I need to go to in order to create the account?

2. I seen that people said that even though these short clips, etc. are already on the HDD that you have to go to the "store" and click "buy"? How the heck do you know
what ones are free if they don't say so? Also after clicking buy on anything is there a confirmation screen before they charge you?

If someone would explain to me this procedure stuff I would greatly appreciate it!!

Thanks, Gerry
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post #389 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggw2000 View Post
My X10 arrived today from Crutchfield and will probably hook it up today. But I have two questions as far as procedure if I can get some help.

1. I do not have a SEN or 4K Unlimited account (not even sure which of these it would be) and need to know where do I go to get one setup before plugging in
X10? Do I set one up using my computer? If so, what is the website that I need to go to in order to create the account?

2. I seen that people said that even though these short clips, etc. are already on the HDD that you have to go to the "store" and click "buy"? How the heck do you know
what ones are free if they don't say so? Also after clicking buy on anything is there a confirmation screen before they charge you?

If someone would explain to me this procedure stuff I would greatly appreciate it!!

Thanks, Gerry
It is all self explanatory and will make sense once it is plugged in. Once you go to the store it will direct you to go to a website to create a SEN account. You have to do it from a PC/phone/tablet.

Last edited by Mattopotamus; 07-31-2014 at 12:34 PM.
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post #390 of 1267 Old 07-31-2014, 11:11 AM
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Just a heads-up to those that ordered from Best Buy- I pre-ordered back in June and was given a release date of 8/24. I just received an e-mail that the release date was revised to today. I logged into my account, and my order has moved from "Payment Validated" into "Preparing Order"
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