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post #871 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by bjorg View Post
I have the HDMI2 going into an Integra 80.3. It works as expected with no drop outs. However, I'm missing sound from the surround left channel. I'm starting to wonder if that is an encoding issue in Spider-Man 2 though and not an equipment issue.
I tried several different movies with the same result. I don't think it is an encoding issue.

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post #872 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 05:46 AM
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I feel this is all tied up in content protection overload.

Quick story: The day the board and X1 were installed by Sony tech, I didn't catch the second output issue. The next day, I called Sony to ask why the two HDMI outputs (second one for audio only) didn't feed program simultaneously. The rather knowledgeable tech gave me three reasons, and each one of them had copyrighted material protection as it's base point.

Passing correct 5.1 is very easy, but in their need to satisfy movie studio and MPAA fraud standards, they had to bend over backwards and redesign the wheel. We consumers are the ones who get shorted on the deal.
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post #873 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeSoFl View Post

Passing correct 5.1 is very easy, but in their need to satisfy movie studio and MPAA fraud standards, they had to bend over backwards and redesign the wheel. We consumers are the ones who get shorted on the deal.
Yep....

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post #874 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeSoFl View Post
I feel this is all tied up in content protection overload.

Quick story: The day the board and X1 were installed by Sony tech, I didn't catch the second output issue. The next day, I called Sony to ask why the two HDMI outputs (second one for audio only) didn't feed program simultaneously. The rather knowledgeable tech gave me three reasons, and each one of them had copyrighted material protection as it's base point.

Passing correct 5.1 is very easy, but in their need to satisfy movie studio and MPAA fraud standards, they had to bend over backwards and redesign the wheel. We consumers are the ones who get shorted on the deal.
I suspect you are correct, Lee. It would be nice if we had confirmation of the behavior from Sony.

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post #875 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchn View Post
The answer is: optical can technically only transmit 2 channel uncompressed sound (PCM), or a surround sound container format like Dolby Digital or DTS. So when it goes in to the set over HDMI as 5.1 PCM, the TV doesn't (can't?) wrap it in a container back out through toslink to the AVR. Not a Sony specific problem. (Note that is why DD5.1 coming out of the apps like Netflix, Amazon, DLNA through toslink work correctly)

Browsing through the thread deciding whether to upgrade my x1 to x10 for free, it seems like that would be worthless. If I can't get consistent 5.1ch sound out of the thing - what's the point. I can always pull my HDMI1 cord out of my TV and put it back in to get surround working correctly on the X1 and the 4k Netflix experiment isn't exactly must-have.

I didn't order Spidey2 4k because I would rather have it in 3d, but I will note the surround was all focused on the right side of the field on its movie trailer I downloaded.
Very Nice explanation.

The SPDIF (Optical Output) specifcation does not support passing LPCM 5.1 content. This link does not have the bandwidth to pass the LPCM 5.1 audio. The HDMI ARC spec follows the SPDIF spec and it too does not support LPCM 5.1.

The VU content is using LPCM 5.1 (uncompressed/lossless audio format that is better than Dolby Digital 5.1)
Netflix content is using some form of Dolby Digital

Player -> TV can be LPCM 5.1 as long as the TV supports it.
TV -> AVR via ARC/Optical will only support LPCM 2 Channel/Dolby Digital (LPCM 5.1 -> LPCM 2.0)

In oder to get LPCM 5.1 the Player has added the HDMI 2 so the audio can be sent to the AVR in multichannel format.
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post #876 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 11:59 AM
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I am not understanding something. When I use the X900a on-board Netflix client to play a movie with 5.1 DD sound, the AVR shows 5.1 audio on the Toslink connection (as long as the TV sound is set to "Audio System"). Doesn't this contradict what you both are saying?

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post #877 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I am not understanding something. When I use the X900a on-board Netflix client to play a movie with 5.1 DD sound, the AVR shows 5.1 audio on the Toslink connection (as long as the TV sound is set to "Audio System"). Doesn't this contradict what you both are saying?
I think you are on the right track - As I mention above Netflix content is using Dolby Digital (this is the same as your experience)

The SPDIF (Optical Output) supports Dolby Digital and will pass it through to the AV receiver.

so there is no contradiction.

Yes it is also necessary to set the Audio setting to "Audio System" to allow the TV to pass the Dolby Digital to the AV receiver. If it is set to TV speakers the Optical output would be LPCM 2 channel.
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post #878 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Jyoti View Post
This seems to be an issue with every single user that chooses to use HDMI 2 out for audio. Left surround does not work! There is no workaround to it either by changing settings on your fmp-x10 or your avr equipment. I have tried everything I could possibly think of with no resolution.

I urge every single fmp-x10 owner to contact sony if you have not already and report the issue. Its a hassle dealing with their tech support but this route seems to be our only hope and the more owners call and complain, it'll get to their engineers fast and hopefully we will get a firmware update that fixes this issue.

Whats the point of dropping 600 bucks to watch cutting edge technology and in turn go back in time where audio is concerned. Sony dropped the ball on this one!! I will def think twice before i invest in this company again
Not every owner. I have hdmi1 going to my x900A and hdmi2 going to my Onkyo 5010 and I get 5.1 and sound out of my left surround when playing netflix or Spiderman2. No drop outs at all. Hope I didn't just jinx myself!
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post #879 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 03:33 PM
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Hi,

Is there a list of current 4k movies available? Thanks
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post #880 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 03:54 PM
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Yes, log into Sony's 4K service from your player....

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post #881 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Yes, log into Sony's 4K service from your player....
I do not have a X10 or a Sony 4k tv. I was wondering what is available, because it might be a deciding factor.
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post #882 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 04:32 PM
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I don't know of a list anywhere. The movie list is rather short, and totally underwhelming.

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post #883 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 05:10 PM
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FMPX10 2 channel issue streaming vs.downloading

I am a bit confused by some recent posts after I posted my findings yesterday...
****STREAMIMG NETFLIX-again I will describe my connections and my results when streaming Netflix (House of Cards/Breaking Bad are 2 examples)via the FMPX10 apps. I have the media player HDMI 1(audio/video)connected to my Sony 65 inch 850A HDMI 4 port. Since my Lexicon MC12 processor is older and does not have HDMI at all(only toslink and coaxil) I am using Toslink out of my 850A to my processor. This by the way is how I have my HD cable Box connected using TV's HDMI 1 port. And the TV Toslink does send a 5.1 Dolby digital signal to my lexicon processor. The front panel of my Lexicon tells me so...when it is not 5.1 and only 2 channel it shows 2 channel on my front panel. This change occurs depending on the signal (Ofcause TV setting is set to TV speakers OFF/Audio System ON) So with streaming Netflix with my FMPX10 media player I am getting 4K AND 5.1 dolby digital when the program has the 5.1 signal. All is right with the world!

***DOWNLOADING MOVIES and CLIPS-this is not the case for Downloading movies(Spider Man 2 for example)or the 4K clips with my media player. if the program (Spider Man 2) is in 5.1 Dolby Digital it does not pass thru as 5.1 Dolby digital from the TV toslink to my Lexicon processor (STREAMING does as I noted above but NOT with any DOWNLOADS)The front panel shows 2 channel Stereo and I have it set to LOGIC7 (simulated surround sound)which I could easily change to PLII (simulated surround sound). You get 4K resolution but not 5.1 ...You get 1 and not the other!!!


So I need some clarification because I am a bit confused by some recent posts about this subject since I posted my findings just yesterday ( I am a new here on this forum)

My obvious question is WHY?
Why when using my FMPX10 media player and streaming (House of Cards - Netflix) for example all is right with the world. Both 4K resolution and 5.1 Dolby digital passing thru my TV toslink to my Lexicon processor (if ofcause the program is in 5.1 Dolby Digital)
BUT,
when using my FMPX10 media player and DOWNLOADING films or clips (Spider Man 2 for example) all is NOT right with the world. Only 4K resolution is ofcause received but only 2 Channel Stereo passes thru my TV toslink to my lexicon processor.

Is this some sort of copyright issue???? Is this the NORM behavior of this FMPX10. And if it is..and it is not some sort of copyright issue..will this be corrected in a firmware update?

Please reply back.

Many thanks!
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post #884 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 05:34 PM
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You say you are confused. All of us are confused by the audio behavior of the X10, so why would you be any different? When I play 5.1 content from the X10 Netflix client, my X900a displays the message "Switching audio to TV speakers" and the content plays in 2.0. If your system behaves differently, then chalk it up to the unpredictability of the X10, and consider yourself lucky.

The behavior you are experiencing with downloaded 4K content is consistent with my experiences, so be happy that you have consistency, even though the results are not what you want.

As far as explaining why things are how they are, why don't you ask Sony? I don't think anyone here has a good explanation.

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post #885 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 06:17 PM
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Thanks again (I was hoping you would reply to my post as you did yesterday)and this will probably be my final post on this subject. it seems the FMPX10 works differently with some users is what you are telling me...could it be for some strange reason the type of display. You have the 900A...I have the 850A...some have other 4K TV models.
I am not even going to try to call Sony on this issue...I will wind up more frustrated after the call then before the call. And different reps will give you a different answer. Maybe one day when I have the energy I will....
Curious.... Are you happy with the FMPX10? I am somewhat. I know the unit is brand new...I am hoping with some additions (Amazon 4Kfor example,and ofcause more content)and with some add'l Software updates we will be more satisfied.
Oh by the way Netflix was Down last night for many so I couldnt do add'l "testing" untill today.
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post #886 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aflorida View Post

Is this some sort of copyright issue???? Is this the NORM behavior of this FMPX10. And if it is..and it is not some sort of copyright issue..will this be corrected in a firmware update?
This is the norm for the X10. No multichannel audio through HDMI1, hence the HDMI2 for audio. Highly doubt a firmware update will correct. One possible workaround is buying one of those HDMI switches from Monoprice that will pull the 5.1 audio from HDMI2 and covert it to optical to connect with toslink to your receiver.
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post #887 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 06:28 PM
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FMPX10 2 channel issue streaming vs.downloading

I think you misunderstood...But I do get multi channel sound from FMPX10 HDMI1 (only when streaming-Netflix-House of Cards,Breaking Bad,etc) NOT with Downloading (Spider Man /4K clips).
Streaming...My lexicon shows 5.1 Dolby Digital
Downloading-My Lexicon shows 2 channel Stereo

Using HDMI 1 of FMPX10....to HDMI4 port of my 850A..Toslink out of TV to my Lexicon processor.

Streaming (all is right with the world)
Downloading(not so)
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post #888 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 06:30 PM
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I've been looking for something simple for my chain to package lossless and uncompressed 5.1ch PCM into lossy DD5.1 and getting nowhere fast. To Sony's declining credit they did try to give us the best 5.1 audio quality uncompressed.

This link might help 'unmuddy' the waters a bit. Toslink can't and will never pass anything other than PCM 2.0, DD5.1 and DTS5.1 (and stereo/mono I suppose?)
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...ess_Audio/1233

Last edited by flinchn; 08-20-2014 at 06:36 PM.
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post #889 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 07:44 PM
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Does anybody else here think that spiderman 2 is grainy and not very clear? I am starting to wonder if the blu ray version with my 4k projector up converting would be clearer. I am really considering returning the fmp-x10.
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post #890 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 07:58 PM
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I have not seen the Blu-Ray version, but on an 85" screen it looked absolutely stunning! As a side note, I think I'm done streaming movies. The 85x950b is utterly unforgiving to any flaws in the source material. I haven't had it enough yet to definitively side with 4K, but so far, I like what I'm seeing (I just wish I was hearing more on the left of the room...).
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post #891 of 1287 Old 08-20-2014, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aflorida View Post
I think you misunderstood...But I do get multi channel sound from FMPX10 HDMI1 (only when streaming-Netflix-House of Cards,Breaking Bad,etc) NOT with Downloading (Spider Man /4K clips).
Streaming...My lexicon shows 5.1 Dolby Digital
Downloading-My Lexicon shows 2 channel Stereo

Using HDMI 1 of FMPX10....to HDMI4 port of my 850A..Toslink out of TV to my Lexicon processor.

Streaming (all is right with the world)
Downloading(not so)
I thought all the Sony 4k displays used the HDMI #2 input port for their 4K connection.
Am I incorrect ?
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post #892 of 1287 Old 08-21-2014, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by thestewman View Post
I thought all the Sony 4k displays used the HDMI #2 input port for their 4K connection.
Am I incorrect ?

I think that' HDMI 2 is only for the 84's.. Others use HDMI 4, but I could be wrong.
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post #893 of 1287 Old 08-21-2014, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatiPlaneteer View Post
I do not have a X10 or a Sony 4k tv. I was wondering what is available, because it might be a deciding factor.

Sony claims all these.


http://nebula.wsimg.com/c78ae10141c0...&alloworigin=1
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post #894 of 1287 Old 08-21-2014, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aflorida View Post
I think you misunderstood...But I do get multi channel sound from FMPX10 HDMI1 (only when streaming-Netflix-House of Cards,Breaking Bad,etc) NOT with Downloading (Spider Man /4K clips).
Streaming...My lexicon shows 5.1 Dolby Digital
Downloading-My Lexicon shows 2 channel Stereo

Using HDMI 1 of FMPX10....to HDMI4 port of my 850A..Toslink out of TV to my Lexicon processor.

Streaming (all is right with the world)
Downloading(not so)
Pretty much....The audio is packaged in a different container when streaming from Netflix. Thus you're getting DD from Netflix, everything changes when you play downloaded content from the HDD of the X10. Once you hit that play button on the X10, all audio will be sent out in a PCM 5.1 format via HDMI 2 of the player. If you instead choose to send it out via HDMI 1 directly to the display, then to your AVR via an optical connection, you'll end up with 2 ch stereo, as the audio is not packaged in a format that provides 5.1 audio coding.


Sent from my SM-N900T using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
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post #895 of 1287 Old 08-21-2014, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TweakerInWA View Post
Pretty much....The audio is packaged in a different container when streaming from Netflix. Thus you're getting DD from Netflix, everything changes when you play downloaded content from the HDD of the X10. Once you hit that play button on the X10, all audio will be sent out in a PCM 5.1 format via HDMI 2 of the player. If you instead choose to send it out via HDMI 1 directly to the display, then to your AVR via an optical connection, you'll end up with 2 ch stereo, as the audio is not packaged in a format that provides 5.1 audio coding.


Sent from my SM-N900T using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2

The Video Unlimited 4K content on the player uses LPCM 5.1 (un-compressed lossless audio).

The issue about SPDIF (Optical Output)/ARC not passing this is due to the limitation of this link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=S/PDIF

The Sony TV iactually does receive the content in LPCM 5.1 via HDMI 1 however due to the fact that the SPDIF and ARC interfaces do not support LPCM 5.1 it is passed out in LPCM 2 channel.
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post #896 of 1287 Old 08-21-2014, 11:22 AM
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2CHANNEL Streaming vs.Downloading

Thxs-I think I have it correct-tell me If I do-
LPCM vs. PCM
***Streaming thru FMPX10 -it uses 5.1 Digital(PCM)that can pass thru TV's Toslink to Lexicon thats why my Lexicon front panel shows 5.1 Dolby Digital during playback
***Downloading thru FMPX10-it uses 5.1(LPCM)that CANNOT pass thru TV's Toslink to Lexicon thats why my lexicon front panel shows 2 Channel Stereo during playback(I can change to LOGIC 7 or PLII (multichannel simulated surround)

Since my older Lexicon does not have any HDMI only Toslink and Coaxil -the only way to connect it is as follow: FMPX10 HDMI1 to TV's HDMI 4 then
Toslink out of TV to Lexicon

I purchased my lexicon processor yrs. ago at $9K-- it is still a dynamite award winning high-end processor so i am not planning on buying another .

Is there any work around( converter) -I dont think so but I need to ask

Furthermore,I heard using the FMPX10 HDMI2 to receiver/processor causes Audio dropouts.
I think I will leave well enough alone-before I get "distressed" with an Audio dropout issues.

Please reply
Many thanks!
te
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post #897 of 1287 Old 08-21-2014, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aflorida View Post
I am a bit confused by some recent posts after I posted my findings yesterday...
****STREAMIMG NETFLIX-again I will describe my connections and my results when streaming Netflix (House of Cards/Breaking Bad are 2 examples)via the FMPX10 apps. I have the media player HDMI 1(audio/video)connected to my Sony 65 inch 850A HDMI 4 port. Since my Lexicon MC12 processor is older and does not have HDMI at all(only toslink and coaxil) I am using Toslink out of my 850A to my processor. This by the way is how I have my HD cable Box connected using TV's HDMI 1 port. And the TV Toslink does send a 5.1 Dolby digital signal to my lexicon processor. The front panel of my Lexicon tells me so...when it is not 5.1 and only 2 channel it shows 2 channel on my front panel. This change occurs depending on the signal (Ofcause TV setting is set to TV speakers OFF/Audio System ON) So with streaming Netflix with my FMPX10 media player I am getting 4K AND 5.1 dolby digital when the program has the 5.1 signal. All is right with the world!

***DOWNLOADING MOVIES and CLIPS-this is not the case for Downloading movies(Spider Man 2 for example)or the 4K clips with my media player. if the program (Spider Man 2) is in 5.1 Dolby Digital it does not pass thru as 5.1 Dolby digital from the TV toslink to my Lexicon processor (STREAMING does as I noted above but NOT with any DOWNLOADS)The front panel shows 2 channel Stereo and I have it set to LOGIC7 (simulated surround sound)which I could easily change to PLII (simulated surround sound). You get 4K resolution but not 5.1 ...You get 1 and not the other!!!


So I need some clarification because I am a bit confused by some recent posts about this subject since I posted my findings just yesterday ( I am a new here on this forum)

My obvious question is WHY?
Why when using my FMPX10 media player and streaming (House of Cards - Netflix) for example all is right with the world. Both 4K resolution and 5.1 Dolby digital passing thru my TV toslink to my Lexicon processor (if ofcause the program is in 5.1 Dolby Digital)
BUT,
when using my FMPX10 media player and DOWNLOADING films or clips (Spider Man 2 for example) all is NOT right with the world. Only 4K resolution is ofcause received but only 2 Channel Stereo passes thru my TV toslink to my lexicon processor.

Is this some sort of copyright issue???? Is this the NORM behavior of this FMPX10. And if it is..and it is not some sort of copyright issue..will this be corrected in a firmware update?

Please reply back.

Many thanks!
I'm experiencing the exact same issue with my FMP-X10 and 850A. The 850A will send whatever signal is going in through the HDMI port out the Toslink port. I think it has something to do with the compression/codec used to play a movie that has been downloaded onto the hard drive from Sony's service vs streaming the content through Netflix. Sony makes you download the movie before watching it so you won't experience lots of buffering through their service, and once it's downloaded, you can play it in native 4K. We all know that Sony has capped the download speed, which is why they make you download the entire movie first. Netflix's streams are the only non-proprietary 4k content available, and they stream it using the H.265/HEVC decoder at 15.6 Mbps. From what I've recently learned, today’s TVs and other devices have decompression software on a chip inside the device. But chips with 4K decompression haven’t hit the market, so the 4K TVs arriving in the marketplace are improvising their decompression solutions. Sony’s new 4K TVs and accompanying 4K media player use compression from tech company eyeIO, which it a proprietary type of compression technology. In May, they approved H.265 as the "official" standard for software and hardware to encode and decode 4k content, and also according to the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers, broadcasters are limited by law to use 19Mbps, or less, in bandwidth. Some broadcasters use the entire 19Mbps like CBS, NBC, and PBS HD. Others might only use 12Mbps for HD content and use 1200 pixels instead of 1920 pixels for HD content, which of course isn't it's full potential. Currently, to process H.265, software based decoders are being used, but once hardware starts hitting the market that has built in H.265 hardware acceleration, a lot of these issues with sound and video will be fixed. Maybe the reason some of us aren't getting the quality of picture and sound that we expected to get has something to do with Sony's proprietary compression they're using on the FMP-X10. Some hardware works, some doesn't. Once everyone is on the same page and there's enough hardware with built in H.265 compression, instead of it being software encoding, then we won't have these issues, but I'm just guessing from the research I've been doing recently. Sony though, is using proprietary encoding, hence the 2 HDMI ports to watch, and hear, one show. This article, http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-th...-2014/#!bHDVGk, lists quite a few companies who are currently providing streaming 4k content, and there should be another 10-12 more by the end of the year. And regarding the copy protection that keeps coming up, HDMI 2.0 is necessary to view 4k content, but HDMI 2.0 isn't HDCP 2.2 (high defininition copy protection) compliant. HDMI 1.4 is and you can view 4k content at 30 frames per second, but to take advantage of a higher framerate, color, and bit depth to fully enjoy 4k, you must use HDMI 2.0.

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post #898 of 1287 Old 08-21-2014, 02:45 PM
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2CHANNEL Streaming vs.Downloading

You may also want to read the previous posts (the most recent one from 400MHZ MAN). He seems to lay out the limitations of Toslink that may prevent LPCM from being passed out of TV to receiver or processor. Only PCM is able to pass.

Streaming like Netflix uses PCM (so all is OK with the world)but downloading thru 4K unlimited service uses LPCM which wont pass from TV toslink to processor/reciver..therefore getting 2.0 channel /stereo instead.

Thats if I am undertanding 400MHZ MAN correctly

...And I may be lucky but downloading "Spider Man 2 "took 5 hrs as opposed to some saying 20 hrs + to Download. I am getting when I check My 4K videos/settings/Downspeed on my FMPX10 at anywhere from 20-25-to almost 30-35 therefore my downloading is not a problem as some are expierencing

I usually get thru my Laptop when I check Speedtest.com Download speeds of around 65-75 and upload speeds of about 45.

NOTE-I use wired LAN connections..never go wireless..use CAT6 Ethernet Cables...
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post #899 of 1287 Old 08-21-2014, 03:32 PM
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Do we know if the X10 even sends multichannel audio through HDMI1 to the TV (Video Unlimited 4K "downloaded" (not talking about Netflix DD+)). Regardless of the limitations of PCM over SPDIF/Tosilink. The X10 only sends 2 channel audio to the TV over HDMI1, so you can't get anymore more than the native source out from the TV (whether ARC or Toslink). HDMI2 is Sony's answer for multichannel audio when watching files from Video Unlimited.

Last edited by teeitup; 08-21-2014 at 03:36 PM.
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post #900 of 1287 Old 08-21-2014, 03:45 PM
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2CHANNEL Streaming vs.Downloading

Many ...many posts concerning this issue. a few from myself.
+ I heard many problems with using FMPX10 HDMI2 to receiver/processor with Audio Dropout issues.

See all previous posts starting from a few days back to current.

we all have some issues with the FMPX10
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