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post #1 of 45 Old 08-05-2014, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Snowpiercer: Movie Theater vs. Home Theater



Snowpiercer became available for rental and purchase on the web and video-on-demand while it was still in theaters. Mark Henninger compares the two experiences.

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Snowpiercer is an outlier as far as independent movies go. Produced with a decent budget ($40 million), it has a charismatic star in Chris Evans, who plays Captain America, and it garnered positive reviews in the press. However, despite these qualities, Snowpiercer did not receive a widespread theatrical release in the US. Instead, the sci-fi flick opened on about 350 screens and shortly thereafter became available for rental or purchase via iTunes, Amazon, Vudu, YouTube, and video-on-demand.

The experiment worked. After only two weeks, online delivery plus on-demand revenue matched that of the theatrical showings. According to Variety, Snowpiercer made $3.9 million over the course of five weeks playing in theaters while it made $3.8 million in just two weeks of on-demand and online rentals/sales. Although Snowpiercer cost $40 million to make, it grossed $80 million worldwide before opening in the US—in other words; the movie was already a financial success. In addition, every dollar it made online counted for over two dollars in theatrical revenue, according to Radius-TWC, the film’s distributor. Studio executives are bound to scrutinize Snowpiercer's box office performance.

In the past, I’ve performed similar comparisons between online delivery formats and Blu-ray, but in this case the US Blu-ray release of Snowpiercer is months away. Instead of waiting, I decided to compare the online-delivery formats to each other, as well as the at-home viewing experience to the theatrical experience. Even though the movie only played on 353 screens at its peak, one of those screens happened to be within walking distance of my Center City, Philadelphia home.

I started my comparison watching the film in my studio via Vudu HDX. I used my calibrated Samsung PN64F8500 plasma, which is seven feet from my seat—an optimal distance for viewing 1080p content on a 64-inch screen. Vudu delivered a very good-quality stream—it’s likely not as sharp as a good Blu-ray, but it looked excellent. Every scene displayed rich detail, and there were no noticeable compression artifacts such as banding and macro blocking—even during extremely dark scenes. Sound quality was typical for a Dolby Digital Plus 5.1-channel presentation, with superb channel separation and moderately engaging dynamics—usually Blu-ray sounds a bit better than streaming video. Ultimately, Snowpiercer looked and sounded great at home.

Then, I went out to the movies. I saw Snowpiercer at The Roxy Theater in Philadelphia. The Roxy is a two-auditorium art house theater in the heart of Center City, which is Philly's downtown. Its neighbors include some of the best restaurants and bars—the nightlife in that area is vibrant. The theater itself used to be run-down. However, I recently read that the Philadelphia Film Society took over the lease and renovated the amphitheaters. Since it was the closest theater screening Snowpiercer, I went to check it out. It has been a while since my last visit to any theater, which was an IMAX 3D presentation of Iron Man 3, back in May of 2013.

Unfortunately, in terms of its design, the Roxy Philadelphia is the worst theater I’ve ever been to. I was mildly shocked when I first entered. The screen was high up on the back wall, very high up. It was a very small screen—more like what I see in a large home theater than what I find in a commercial one, and far too small for the theater itself. As an aside, even though I don't go out to movies often, I’ve shot many amphitheaters for Regal Cinemas, including the chain’s flagship Times Square property. Between my work for Regal and my work for AVS, I can spot a well-designed auditorium—and The Roxy in Philly was definitely not that. I’ll discuss the experience in-depth in a separate article I’m writing.

Watching Snowpiercer in The Roxy was painful. The recently installed surround-sound system lacked bass, yet the soundtrack was often too loud to bear. At times dialog was unintelligible. As far as I could tell, there was no channel separation. Visually, it was impossible to find a seat with a satisfying view of the screen. Furthermore, a huge and ultra-bright EXIT sign that’s right next to the screen provided a constant distraction. However, the biggest crime was the image quality—blacks were grayish, and the small screen made it so viewers would not even get the full benefit of 720p source material, much less 1080p. I know because I measured the screen with my fingers (arm outstretched) and compared the angle of view to my optimum system at home. Sitting in a middle row in The Roxy is equivalent to watching a 39-inch TV from ten or eleven feet away. Even from the front row, the screen is too small to get the full benefit of 1080p. The truth is I did not stay for the entire movie; I bailed a little more than an hour into the screening.

I wish I had seen Snowpiercer in a commercial multiplex instead of my local art house cinema, but it’s unlikely that a major film distributor would pick up a movie that’s destined for release via online channels and video-on-demand while it is still in theaters. The thing is I stopped going to movie theaters for a number of reasons that include bad sound and image quality—just on a larger screen than what I experienced at The Roxy.

In this instance, online delivery definitively beat the theatrical option. My one ticket to the movies cost me $12, whereas my rental cost $7. Regardless of which online service I used to view it, Snowpiercer looked and sounded far better in my home than it did in the theater. Which online service provided the highest-quality version? It’s a tough call because the movie seemed close to perfect on Vudu HDX and iTunes HD. I observed Vudu HDX provide the best image quality of the three by the slimmest of margins, with iTunes coming in a very close second. Amazon HD was a little bit softer than the other two formats.

In terms of color and contrast, the three online-delivery formats looked almost identical—closer than I've seen in the past. Notably, even the darkest scenes were free of banding artifacts. In terms of sound, I found no discernible difference between the three formats. It’ll be interesting to see and hear what Blu-ray brings to the equation—Snowpiercer is a good enough film to merit another screening. For now, here are some screenshot comparisons from the movie.

All comparisons are in lossless .png format, taken from PC screen grabs. To view the unaltered pixels, open the images in a new tab and zoom in to 100%.


The first half of the film takes place in the back of the train. The color palate is cold and dark. For this scene, it's a tie in terms of quality.


In this scene, Vudu and iTunes look a bit sharper than Amazon. Amazon also looks a little bit washed out in comparison. I can't decide if Vudu looks any sharper than iTunes.


Another tie between iTunes and Vudu. Amazon looks a tiny bit softer. Colors look nearly identical between the three formats.


This scene is great for comparing detail. Vudu and iTunes are just about tied, and Amazon looks a little softer.


Once again, Vudu and iTunes are virtually tied, while Amazon looks a bit softer.

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post #2 of 45 Old 08-05-2014, 05:06 PM
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the blocking on VUDU HDX is terrible.
the crushed blacks on iTunes aren't better.
iTunes has less blocking then Amazon HD but Amazon doesn't have the crushed black level problem so i think it's the winner too.
i look at that later with my TV but wow all 3 look pretty bad...

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Vudu delivered a very good-quality stream—it’s likely not as sharp as a good Blu-ray, but it looked excellent. Every scene displayed rich detail, and there were no noticeable compression artifacts such as banding and macro blocking—even during extremely dark scenes. Sound quality was typical for a Dolby Digital Plus 5.1-channel presentation, with superb channel separation and moderately engaging dynamics—usually Blu-ray sounds a bit better than streaming video. Ultimately, Snowpiercer looked and sounded great at home.
why is my opinion the total opposite...
i mean this is bad picture quality isn't it? https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3847/...5c64f2d0_o.png

can you please double check if you aren't clipping some black levels?
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post #3 of 45 Old 08-05-2014, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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the blocking on VUDU HDX is terrible.
the crushed blacks on iTunes aren't better.
iTunes has less blocking then Amazon HD but Amazon doesn't have the crushed black level problem so i think it's the winner too.
i look at that later with my TV but wow all 3 look pretty bad...



why is my opinion the total opposite...
i mean this is bad picture quality isn't it? https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3847/...5c64f2d0_o.png

can you please double check if you aren't clipping some black levels?
I'm not clipping blacks, I'm confident of that. I have a perfect rec. 709 calibration on 3 different displays, and I've used multiple sources to view it. If you are seeing those artifacts in the blacker-than-black regions, your display is not set up properly, or it's not calibrated properly. If viewed forensically, iTunes comes out the winner, and Vudu does look terrible. But that's only if your boost the shadows artificially. You really should not be seeing artifacts if everything is properly set up and calibrated.

No way to know the real deal in terms of total image quality before the Blu-ray comes out. My main point was that the at home experience blew away the theatrical experience.

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post #4 of 45 Old 08-05-2014, 05:18 PM
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I've noticed lately with my local theater that what I thought were supposed to be big hits seem to only stay there for only 2 weeks and then they are gone. That happened the past couple months when I would most likely have gone there to watch the new X-men movie and the Tom Cruise Sci-Fi Ground Hog day movie, Edge of Tomorrow or whatever it's called.

But I do fear bed bugs whenever I go to the local movie theater, and honestly I am probably gambling with that everytime I go. I've started going less once I first heard that this could be a legitimate fear, and I actually took a long break after I first came to that understanding.

But, hey, the things we do for movies!

The other day I streamed a movie off of Amazon. I was not impressed with the colors. Just seemed dark and that the blacks seemed to blur past their intended image and into other other parts of the picture. I was actually surprised that HD movies from my cable compary look better probably.

No movie experience for me compares to my 5.1 setup sitting about 9-10 ft from a 65 inch Panasonic TC-65PS64 when watching a Blu-Ray movie. A Blu-Ray at home for me is my preferred method of watching a movie. Best picture, best sound and it is really not close, when I compare local movie theater, HD movies from the cable company at home or streaming at home using my Sony S790 Blu-Ray player.

I should probably sign up to a Blu-Ray disc service. Lately I have just stopped by a very convenient Red Box location to get my Blu-Ray movies. I've pretty much decided to stop buying movies because I just don't get that much use out of 95% of the ones I have purchased. But if I can find them for $4-5 then it is nice to put them on the shelf and have something that I have not seen before that I can go grab whenever I decide to watch one at the last minute / on impulse. Only it can be a little annoying trying to find good deals on movies, and therefore I have gotten away from continuously trying to find movies I want to at a decent price. So, I'll probably shop around for a the best Blu-ray by mail service.
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post #5 of 45 Old 08-05-2014, 05:38 PM
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all my screens are calibrated my normal Pc screens are just corrected with a ICM file nothing else so not really high quality.

but my TV uses a BT. 1886 gamma 2.4 16bit 3d lut created with over 3300 patches and checked for black clipping and a lot more.
first of all the problem is not on my TV like with the cheap TN and my not that cheap 6 bit TN gaming panel. so real sorry about that.

iTunes HD is definably black clipping. the hand in screen 2 shows it really clearly
and the "disco" screen is still blocking a bit not terrible at least.
the aquarium shows huge black clipping in iTunesHD too.
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post #6 of 45 Old 08-05-2014, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
all my screens are calibrated my normal Pc screens are just corrected with a ICM file nothing else so not really high quality.

but my TV uses a BT. 1886 gamma 2.4 16bit 3d lut created with over 3300 patches and checked for black clipping and a lot more.
first of all the problem is not on my TV like with the cheap TN and my not that cheap 6 bit TN gaming panel. so real sorry about that.

iTunes HD is definably black clipping. the hand in screen 2 shows it really clearly
and the "disco" screen is still blocking a bit not terrible at least.
the aquarium shows huge black clipping in iTunesHD too.
Based on what I saw in the theater, the cinematographer intentionally clipped blacks in many scenes. I do see that iTunes clips the blacks even more.

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post #7 of 45 Old 08-05-2014, 06:02 PM
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It never ceases to amaze how much of a taste for AV quality you have, yet you still find the inferior audio and video of streaming not only acceptable but actually a sufficient replacement for bluray.
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post #8 of 45 Old 08-05-2014, 06:20 PM
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I managed to see this movie via VUDU. I'll skip my opinion of the movie and say that it was a reasonable presentation and the sound was on par with a DVD. I stream from time to time movies, rent discs from Netflix and purchase movies (Blue Ray). I'll take Blue Ray over streaming for both image and audio quality. Of the latter, I'll just have to say that both Red Box and Netflix suffer from (insert expletive here) studios like Lionsgate that insist on not providing the HD audio on the discs for rent in many cases. Why rent a disc that is crippled?

Last - I'll simply say again that this movie looked decent enough via VUDU on my Panasonic VT50 65" TV. I wont be buying this movie but that's another story for another thread.
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post #9 of 45 Old 08-05-2014, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Phrehdd View Post
I managed to see this movie via VUDU. I'll skip my opinion of the movie and say that it was a reasonable presentation and the sound was on par with a DVD. I stream from time to time movies, rent discs from Netflix and purchase movies (Blue Ray). I'll take Blue Ray over streaming for both image and audio quality. Of the latter, I'll just have to say that both Red Box and Netflix suffer from (insert expletive here) studios like Lionsgate that insist on not providing the HD audio on the discs for rent in many cases. Why rent a disc that is crippled?

Last - I'll simply say again that this movie looked decent enough via VUDU on my Panasonic VT50 65" TV. I wont be buying this movie but that's another story for another thread.
Indeed, it essentially is the same sound as on the DVD version.

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post #10 of 45 Old 08-05-2014, 07:17 PM
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I did not think the movie was very good.

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post #11 of 45 Old 08-05-2014, 09:44 PM
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Let me understand this. You saw the movie on a very mediocre cinema screen with a lousy audio system. Then you watched Snowpiercer in various versions of streaming that are not going to be as good as the actual BR, most likely. And you continue to extol your system who anyone who is half way serious about home theater would laugh at, especially the setup. There should be some outstanding home theaters in Philadelphia that you could experience? You should be able to learn something. Obviously, you require a much better home theater setup than you now have. And you continue to write reviews based on your experience with your mediocre system. It is hard to take your opinions and writings seriously.
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post #12 of 45 Old 08-05-2014, 10:33 PM
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Static pictures don't tell the story - they all look pretty similar to my eyes. It's the macroblocking you often get with streaming that I can't stand. What I don't really understand is why it's always the video component that gets compared. What I'd like to see (read) is how the audio stacks up amongst the competition as well as the video. I don't think that kind of comparison is a subjective thing at all tbh. Maybe it takes practice to discern, but if people are choosing one streaming service over another because of audio fidelity, you'd think that those companies would take note and compete better in that regard?

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Let me understand this. You saw the movie on a very mediocre cinema screen with a lousy audio system. Then you watched Snowpiercer in various versions of streaming that are not going to be as good as the actual BR, most likely. And you continue to extol your system who anyone who is half way serious about home theater would laugh at, especially the setup. There should be some outstanding home theaters in Philadelphia that you could experience? You should be able to learn something. Obviously, you require a much better home theater setup than you now have. And you continue to write reviews based on your experience with your mediocre system. It is hard to take your opinions and writings seriously.
Perhaps there is truth in this statement, although I suspect that there are a fair number of members on this forum with laughable systems as well. More than likely these individuals can appreciate his assessments as they may be a fair description of what they might experience using their own comparable (laughable) setups.
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post #14 of 45 Old 08-06-2014, 03:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post
Let me understand this. You saw the movie on a very mediocre cinema screen with a lousy audio system. Then you watched Snowpiercer in various versions of streaming that are not going to be as good as the actual BR, most likely. And you continue to extol your system who anyone who is half way serious about home theater would laugh at, especially the setup. There should be some outstanding home theaters in Philadelphia that you could experience? You should be able to learn something. Obviously, you require a much better home theater setup than you now have. And you continue to write reviews based on your experience with your mediocre system. It is hard to take your opinions and writings seriously.
Snowpiercer did not play in any "outstanding" theaters in my area. My system is top-notch when it comes to image quality... it's reference quality, as they say. It is clear that you are mistaken about my AV knowledge.

There's nothing that says you have to take my reviews seriously.
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post #15 of 45 Old 08-06-2014, 03:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Perhaps there is truth in this statement, although I suspect that there are a fair number of members on this forum with laughable systems as well. More than likely these individuals can appreciate his assessments as they may be a fair description of what they might experience using their own comparable (laughable) setups.
Or, perhaps my Samsung F8500 is a reference-quality display, and I've calibrated it to the rec. 709 spec, which it meets perfectly. I have a good handle on what makes for a top-notch home theater, thanks.

p.s. This comparison is based on screenshots, which have nothing to do with my particular display.
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post #16 of 45 Old 08-06-2014, 03:44 AM
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Snowpiercer did not play in any "outstanding" theaters in my area. My system is top-notch when it comes to image quality... it's reference quality, as they say. It is clear that you are mistaken about my AV knowledge.

There's nothing that says you have to take my reviews seriously.
I skipped seeing it in the theater because after its first week here (Cleveland) in two theaters, it was relegated to a theater that is apparently a clone of the Roxy. So I watched it on Amazon. I had no problems with audio or picture quality, but OMG I did hate the movie.

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post #17 of 45 Old 08-06-2014, 03:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I skipped seeing it in the theater because after its first week here (Cleveland) in two theaters, it was relegated to a theater that is apparently a clone of the Roxy. So I watched it on Amazon. I had no problems with audio or picture quality, but OMG I did hate the movie.
The polar bear at the end was a bit much, but I enjoyed some elements of the film—namely the visual elements.

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post #18 of 45 Old 08-06-2014, 04:26 AM
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[QUOTE=imagic;26331313]Or, perhaps my Samsung F8500 is a reference-quality display, and I've calibrated it to the rec. 709 spec, which it meets perfectly. I have a good handle on what makes for a top-notch home theater, thanks.



This I agree with, which was the reason for my misunderstood sarcasm.
Not that you need my defense, my apologies.

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post #19 of 45 Old 08-06-2014, 06:35 AM
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Same feeling

I share the same fillings when I go to cinema. Last time I was on Edge of Tomorrow in 3D and constantly I was thinking what is wrong with that picture. The feeling distracted me during whole the move. Image was too dark, very blurry, blacks grayish. I just can't wait when I can watch blu ray version on my HT.

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post #20 of 45 Old 08-06-2014, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post
It never ceases to amaze how much of a taste for AV quality you have, yet you still find the inferior audio and video of streaming not only acceptable but actually a sufficient replacement for bluray.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrehdd View Post
I'll take Blue Ray over streaming for both image and audio quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post
Let me understand this. You saw the movie on a very mediocre cinema screen with a lousy audio system. Then you watched Snowpiercer in various versions of streaming that are not going to be as good as the actual BR, most likely. -- several insulting remarks follow ---
Wow. This review was about the comparison between a theatrical showing and a streamed showing, since the movie was made available simultaneously.

The theater was not great since the movie is independent and not backed by big bucks.

No bluray comparison is there as far as I can see. So why the bluray drama? Of course bluray is better than streaming, but in this case, it was not available and had nothing to do with this comparison, which was interesting.
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post #21 of 45 Old 08-06-2014, 09:22 AM
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I have the blu-ray from Spain and the blacks are absolutely abysmal on that copy. Probably the worst of any blu-ray in my collection. They are light gray--nowhere near black. Otherwise, the picture is pretty clean. Also, the sound is a mixed bag. The sound design of the movie makes exceptional use of the surrounds, but maybe too much. Having voices come from all channels is a double-edged sword as it can really highlight the timbre differences of you speakers. Even though, at the time, I had the exact same speakers all around and the most recent version of Audyssey, there's still a noticeable difference due to the different placement of the speakers. Additionally, been a while since I've thrown this term out for a movie soundtrack, but I daresay it was bright. Ha, I guess the audio and the video was bright.

Considering that I ordered this days before it was announced that it was actually going to VOD right after the release (there was talk of that months ago, but no official word until after I bought the movie), I definitely would not have ordered it had I know it was going to VOD. However, I was hoping that the blu-ray would be of superior quality. Sadly that was not the case. Not the best $30 I've ever spent. Hopefully the U.S. blu-ray is significantly better as I would eventually buy this movie again when the price drops. A very fresh-feeling film. It was almost hypnotizing in its sense of originality.

Oh, and there were no English subtitles. I was fine with that until the pre-climax scene with Capt America and the Korean guy. Had to quickly rent the Amazon version figure out what the hell they were talking about.
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post #22 of 45 Old 08-06-2014, 09:29 AM
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While this might be off topic, I strongly disagree with it's release strategy it was a terrible choice. It completely castrated its gross potential in the US. It could have easily grossed 50M+ with a traditional release in US theaters.
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post #23 of 45 Old 08-06-2014, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Or, perhaps my Samsung F8500 is a reference-quality display, and I've calibrated it to the rec. 709 spec, which it meets perfectly. I have a good handle on what makes for a top-notch home theater, thanks.

p.s. This comparison is based on screenshots, which have nothing to do with my particular display.
Mark, I believe you may have answered this before, but how did you calibrate your screen for streaming sources? I've heard different devices and even different streaming services diverge in the curves they put out.

And I do appreciate your viewpoints. Maybe some day we'll get to hear your takes on a decent movie that is showing in a decent theater and streaming simultaneously. Less of a straw man and all that.
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post #24 of 45 Old 08-06-2014, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by DocOrange88 View Post
While this might be off topic, I strongly disagree with it's release strategy it was a terrible choice. It completely castrated its gross potential in the US. It could have easily grossed 50M+ with a traditional release in US theaters.
You have a solid point, in that a traditional release through a major studio / distributor might have generated more gross income from the theatrical release and eventual bluray / streaming release(s).

Given that this is a small independent film though, it would may have been a harder sell to a large corporate studio than to small production / distribution companies.

They went with that strategy, and unlike some movies that I loved that withered on the vine in art houses (Kiss of the Spider Woman, for example), added streaming as an alternate means to support this.

Artists that I like are now using kickstart to raise money and circumvent music companies, getting more control for themselves and their art than is provided by large companies.

This desire to have a freer hand may have led to the theater / streaming release decision for this movie, and if it's successful (as apparently this was so far), it puts a powerful option into place for independent movies.

In that case, it is important to see whether the released stream quality is at least competitive with the theater release as done. If it had been released to large megaplexes, maybe the PQ would have been better in the released version, but then also a studio would have been involved and the movie itself may have been different.

(No comment on the movie itself, I haven't seen it and don't know if I'd like it).

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post #25 of 45 Old 08-06-2014, 02:37 PM
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The bank ability now of Chris Evans by himself would easily push the film. The mass market does not mater if a key actor is very marketable. This is not the Chris Evans of 5 years ago. Based upon its gross at the moment it becomes easier to estimate what it could have been. I don't really consider 40M budget indie.
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post #26 of 45 Old 08-06-2014, 03:44 PM
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My comments are in no way an insult to either imagic's AV knowledge or his setup. In fact quite the opposite, which is why I made my comment about being surprised that he finds streaming acceptable in the first place.

I do understand the point about my comment not being completely relevant to this review. I guess I am just used to his normal BD vs. Streaming reviews. They always make me scratch my head.
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post #27 of 45 Old 08-06-2014, 03:53 PM
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The film's release wasn't really a "choice". Harvey Weinstein had the U.S. distribution rights to the film and he asked the director to shave 20 minutes from the film's run-time. The director refused; Weinstein killed the distribution.
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post #28 of 45 Old 08-06-2014, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post
The film's release wasn't really a "choice". Harvey Weinstein had the U.S. distribution rights to the film and he asked the director to shave 20 minutes from the film's run-time. The director refused; Weinstein killed the distribution.
Sounds about right, where did you read this? The articles I read painted a different picture, like Harvey was being a visionary or something. It did seem odd that a $40 million (budget) movie that already made $80 million abroad was getting that kind of treatment.

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post #29 of 45 Old 08-07-2014, 02:47 AM
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Mark. Not trying to bust your chops (I guess for me it just comes naturally). When describing your viewing at home, you describe the movie as having rich detail on your calibrated plasma. Exactly what do you mean by rich detail? Obviously if a movie is shot sharp with good pulled focus, there will be detail to the extent possible by the resolution of the source frame and then the display. But what makes it rich detail? Are we talking intrascene contrast? The richness of the calibrated colors? Seriously, I might use the same term as you to describe what you saw but I wouldn't expect that my communication in that instance was any good. So back to you. Not an easy question to precisely answer. I know I couldn't. What did you precisely mean by rich detail?

A question that bothers me is no one seems when viewing the same movie in a commercial theater and then at home say via blu ray to even notice the wider P3 color space of the movie (assuming its digital) vs the much narrower in the yellow direction of rec 709. To me, just as the various indicia of contrast are much better in the HT and the focus often is much better, the commercial theater wins hands down in the areas of no banding because of the greater bit depth and the colors presented especially in the colors toward yellow.
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post #30 of 45 Old 08-07-2014, 03:08 AM
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This was playing at the AMC in Cherry Hill, NJ. Almost went. I'm sure It would've been better than the Roxy. Another Roxy type theater in Lancaster had it but that looks worse if you can believe it. I ordered the Korean limited edition blu ray. Should have it early next week.
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