The PlayStation Vue Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #901 of 985 Old 08-16-2017, 04:07 AM
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You guys are lucky if you arent in the 1TB data cap area for Comcast. Its just another aggravating thing Comcast does.
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post #902 of 985 Old 08-16-2017, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Biggen_PCB View Post
You guys are lucky if you arent in the 1TB data cap area for Comcast. Its just another aggravating thing Comcast does.


Out of curiosity, what happens when you go over 1TB in areas where there is a cap?
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post #903 of 985 Old 08-16-2017, 04:21 AM
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Out of curiosity, what happens when you go over 1TB in areas where there is a cap?
Get three courtesy months of which you are allowed over with no charge. Then after three months you get charged $10/50GB over not to be more than $200 in a month. You can upgrade to unlimited if you want for an extra $50/month flat fee.

I installed an antenna in my attic so I get all four major networks OTA. What I normally do is just leave my TV on during the day when Im home for background noise but only on an OTA channel. I only use the Vue if I know there is something I want to see.

Ive had Vue for a few months now and never gone over the cap.
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post #904 of 985 Old 08-16-2017, 04:32 AM
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Get three courtesy months of which you are allowed over with no charge. Then after three months you get charged $10/50GB over not to be more than $200 in a month. You can upgrade to unlimited if you want for an extra $50/month flat fee.



I installed an antenna in my attic so I get all four major networks OTA. What I normally do is just leave my TV on during the day when Im home for background noise but only on an OTA channel. I only use the Vue if I know there is something I want to see.



Ive had Vue for a few months now and never gone over the cap.


Wow that definitely won’t work for me if it ever happened! I would probably get stuck with another $50 a month! Only the 16th and I’m at 676GB right now.
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post #905 of 985 Old 08-16-2017, 04:43 AM
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Wow that definitely won’t work for me if it ever happened! I would probably get stuck with another $50 a month! Only the 16th and I’m at 676GB right now.
Yeah you have to watch it. We used 750GB last month and only about 175GB this month. Having the OTA antenna has helped. Before we would leave the Vue stream on just for background during the day when home and Id be near the 1TB cap at the end of the month. Now, I make sure if anyone is just using it for background noise and not actually watching anything, it better be OTA.

Edit: Its two courtesy months not three. Just checked.
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post #906 of 985 Old 08-16-2017, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Biggen_PCB View Post
Yeah you have to watch it. We used 750GB last month and only about 175GB this month. Having the OTA antenna has helped. Before we would leave the Vue stream on just for background during the day when home and Id be near the 1TB cap at the end of the month. Now, I make sure if anyone is just using it for background noise and not actually watching anything, it better be OTA.



Edit: Its two courtesy months not three. Just checked.


Thanks for the info. That’s helpful.
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post #907 of 985 Old 08-16-2017, 08:59 AM
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Knock on wood....my ISP currently does not have caps.....Dread the day when they do...but its inevitable im sure
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post #908 of 985 Old 08-16-2017, 12:19 PM
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Knock on wood....my ISP currently does not have caps.....Dread the day when they do...but its inevitable im sure
It'll be fine since apparently competition will take care of this. (sarcasm)

Where I live my fastest option is 300 Mb/s and my second best is 18 Mb/s. So yeah I'm basically stuck with whatever they decide they're going to do. I was told the other day that I can get fiber to my home if I'll pay $10,000 for installation.
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post #909 of 985 Old 08-16-2017, 03:42 PM
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At the moment comcast does not charge for overage in my state but have a feeling it is only a matter of time until they do. Once that happens it might be cheaper to go to cable again. Between the rising prices in streaming services and the data caps, the companies once again have found a way to make it difficult to save money...Surprised streaming services are already getting too close to cable.
Depending on how serious the OTT services are about competing with cable and remaining competitively viable, there is an easy next step the OTT services, like Vue and Sling and so on, can take as a counter-measure to burgeoning data download figures from folks switching from cable to TV to streaming.

Several years ago Mpeg-2 was the standard video codec. All HD broadcast channels adopted it, and it remains the broadcast standard today. To get broadcast quality video, Mpeg-2 needs to play back at a speed or bit rate of around 15 megs a second, assuming a Full HD resolution of 1920 x 1080 and a frame rate somewhere around 30 per second (frame rates, generally, hover around 24 to 30 frames a second).

Then, several years, ago, a new video codec emerged called H.264. This latter codec has become the standard for Internet video, including the OTT's like Vue, etc. H.264 requires roughly half the playback speed of mpeg-2 to get comparable results: For example, Youtube recommends a playback speed of 8 megs a second for standard Full HD 1920 x 1080 video in H.264 (Vue uses 5 megs a second for its 1280 x 720 60 frames a second video).

However, more recently than that, yet a new codec has emerged. It is called, not surprisingly, H.265. And, wouldn't you know it, playback speeds for equivalent quality with that codec are once again about half what they were with the previous codec. If Vue and other OTT's were to adopt this codec, you'd see the pressure on data download figures reduce substantially and 1 terabyte caps would cease to be a problem.

If you'd like to see a demonstration, here you go.

First, here's the 264 1920 x 1080 original of a trailer for Supernatural posted on Youtube at
.

Next, here's a 264 version I just made with Handbrake of that trailer at the insanely slow speed of 1.1 megs a second: http://riggsiii.com/SuperNaturalTrailer264HB.mp4 .

Now here's the exact same trailer converted to 265 by Handbrake at precisely the same insanely slow speed of 1.1 megs a second: http://riggsiii.com/SuperNaturalTrailer265HB.m3u8 (that link should work if you have the VLC player and if your VLC player is assigned to .m3u8 links).

What do you think?
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post #910 of 985 Old 08-16-2017, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by brentsg View Post
It'll be fine since apparently competition will take care of this. (sarcasm)



Where I live my fastest option is 300 Mb/s and my second best is 18 Mb/s. So yeah I'm basically stuck with whatever they decide they're going to do. I was told the other day that I can get fiber to my home if I'll pay $10,000 for installation.


Only $10,000? Not bad. Definitely a figure a normal American salary can afford. (More sarcasm)
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post #911 of 985 Old 08-16-2017, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by criggs View Post
Depending on how serious the OTT services are about competing with cable and remaining competitively viable, there is an easy next step the OTT services, like Vue and Sling and so on, can take as a counter-measure to burgeoning data download figures from folks switching from cable to TV to streaming.

Several years ago Mpeg-2 was the standard video codec. All HD broadcast channels adopted it, and it remains the broadcast standard today. To get broadcast quality video, Mpeg-2 needs to play back at a speed or bit rate of around 15 megs a second, assuming a Full HD resolution of 1920 x 1080 and a frame rate somewhere around 30 per second (frame rates, generally, hover around 24 to 30 frames a second).

Then, several years, ago, a new video codec emerged called H.264. This latter codec has become the standard for Internet video, including the OTT's like Vue, etc. H.264 requires roughly half the playback speed of mpeg-2 to get comparable results: For example, Youtube recommends a playback speed of 8 megs a second for standard Full HD 1920 x 1080 video in H.264 (Vue uses 5 megs a second for its 1280 x 720 60 frames a second video).

However, more recently than that, yet a new codec has emerged. It is called, not surprisingly, H.265. And, wouldn't you know it, playback speeds for equivalent quality with that codec are once again about half what they were with the previous codec. If Vue and other OTT's were to adopt this codec, you'd see the pressure on data download figures reduce substantially and 1 terabyte caps would cease to be a problem.

If you'd like to see a demonstration, here you go.

First, here's the 264 1920 x 1080 original of a trailer for Supernatural posted on Youtube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p0wsKW7HFA .

Next, here's a 264 version I just made with Handbrake of that trailer at the insanely slow speed of 1.1 megs a second: http://riggsiii.com/SuperNaturalTrailer264HB.mp4 .

Now here's the exact same trailer converted to 265 by Handbrake at precisely the same insanely slow speed of 1.1 megs a second: http://riggsiii.com/SuperNaturalTrailer265HB.m3u8 (that link should work if you have the VLC player and if your VLC player is assigned to .m3u8 links).

What do you think?


First off, Vue only streams at 720p?

Second, the 265 version looks very close to the original though not quite as clear and still with some artificers. It is, however, miles better than the 264 version which has tons of artifacts littering the screen.
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post #912 of 985 Old 08-16-2017, 04:07 PM
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First off, Vue only streams at 720p?
Yep. I believe that's standard with all of the OTT services. Their bandwidth figures would be insane with 264 if they used 1080.

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Second, the 265 version looks very close to the original though not quite as clear and still with some artificers. It is, however, miles better than the 264 version which has tons of artifacts littering the screen.
Precisely. And keep in mind that 1.1 megs a second is still slower than the geek-heads recommend for 265 1080 (the consensus is around 4 megs a second).

In addition, if the OTT's choose to stay at 720 rather than take advantage of 265 by upping their game to 1080 (or even 4K), that means they could probably downgrade their playback speed to between 1 and 2 megs a second compared to the current standard for those services, which average around 5 megs a second.
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post #913 of 985 Old 08-16-2017, 06:06 PM
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Most people going with Live OTT services are driven by price at this time. Better video and sound won't be going this route for awhile.

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post #914 of 985 Old 08-16-2017, 08:30 PM
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Most people going with Live OTT services are driven by price at this time. Better video and sound won't be going this route for awhile.
Just to be clear, what I'm suggesting here is NOT that the OTT services have an opportunity to improve their video and/or sound. Precisely the contrary. I'm suggesting that they have a means to produce the SAME video and sound quality for LESS BIT RATE SPEED, thus decreasing the pressure on internet service providers to impose caps and reducing the risk of bumping into those caps on the part of users who can now stream the same quality with a lot less data.
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post #915 of 985 Old 08-17-2017, 04:33 AM
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The ISPs would just lower the caps.

What they lose in Cable TV $$$ they will make up by making it hard for people to switch to streaming services.

They know that despite what people might think we never really cut the cord.
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post #916 of 985 Old 08-17-2017, 04:36 AM
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The ISPs would just lower the caps.



What they lose in Cable TV $$$ they will make up by making it hard for people to switch to streaming services.



They know that despite what people might think we never really cut the cord.


Or they could offer competitive streaming services that rely on their internet services. That would make a lot of sense. Imagine an Xfinity app you download on your fire tv, Apple TV, roku, etc. and it just brings you to what is currently the X1 set to box interface. Recording all done to the cloud. They could even offer small fire tv stick like hardware for $5/m if they want to continue to scam people with monthly hardware rental fees.
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post #917 of 985 Old 08-17-2017, 06:53 AM
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Or they could offer competitive streaming services that rely on their internet services. That would make a lot of sense. Imagine an Xfinity app you download on your fire tv, Apple TV, roku, etc. and it just brings you to what is currently the X1 set to box interface. Recording all done to the cloud. They could even offer small fire tv stick like hardware for $5/m if they want to continue to scam people with monthly hardware rental fees.
Yeah, it would make a lot of sense. But why would they, if they can just squeeze out streaming to a certain level with caps and force people back into the fold.
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post #918 of 985 Old 08-25-2017, 04:29 AM
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Turned on the Vue on my FireTV this morning and there was a notice saying Multi-Screen viewing (or something like that) was enabled for live sporting events. So it sounds like picture in picture. Pretty damn cool...

It did say to push the "X" button on a live event to start it, but there is no "X" button on a FireTV remote. Someone didnt change the graphic to the specific buttons of the different devices I guess.
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post #919 of 985 Old 08-25-2017, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Biggen_PCB View Post
Turned on the Vue on my FireTV this morning and there was a notice saying Multi-Screen viewing (or something like that) was enabled for live sporting events. So it sounds like picture in picture. Pretty damn cool...

It did say to push the "X" button on a live event to start it, but there is no "X" button on a FireTV remote. Someone didnt change the graphic to the specific buttons of the different devices I guess.
Yeah I saw that also. I'm thinking they messed up and the message was for PlayStation owners. Hope I'm wrong.
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post #920 of 985 Old 08-25-2017, 07:33 AM
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Yeah I saw that also. I'm thinking they messed up and the message was for PlayStation owners. Hope I'm wrong.
Ugh I hope not! With college football starting Saturday I was hoping to try it out. I guess we will find our shortly.
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post #921 of 985 Old 08-25-2017, 09:14 AM
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Ugh I hope not! With college football starting Saturday I was hoping to try it out. I guess we will find our shortly.
I just called PlayStation Vue support, and they're scrambling to explain what happened. They are saying they have not heard about this feature being added today to the Fire TV (I have one and I got the same message), but they are frequently the last to know, since they're not really tech support; they're just a human voice mail operation, and that's NOT meant as a compliment (sort of like that ad in the bank: "Oh, I don't stop bank robberies, I just report them").

I just reached out to my PS Vue contact, and hope to hear back from him on this matter shortly.

Last edited by criggs; 08-25-2017 at 09:21 AM. Reason: Additional information
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post #922 of 985 Old 08-25-2017, 09:29 AM
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Decided to go back to comcast. Somehow in the matter of 2weeks of cancelling they were able to give me same deals as new customers, even though while I had an active subscription they said they couldn’t. So its cheaper and more importantly, the video and audio quality is MUCH better. Until Vue and the other live TV streaming services have 1080 and at least 5.1, Comcast it is.
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post #923 of 985 Old 08-25-2017, 12:17 PM
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Decided to go back to comcast. Somehow in the matter of 2weeks of cancelling they were able to give me same deals as new customers, even though while I had an active subscription they said they couldn’t. So its cheaper and more importantly, the video and audio quality is MUCH better. Until Vue and the other live TV streaming services have 1080 and at least 5.1, Comcast it is.
I've found the opposite true. I find that the Vue service is superior in video quality from what I had with Comcast. Weird...
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post #924 of 985 Old 08-27-2017, 12:21 PM
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The PlayStation Vue Thread

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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Decided to go back to comcast. Somehow in the matter of 2weeks of cancelling they were able to give me same deals as new customers, even though while I had an active subscription they said they couldn’t. So its cheaper and more importantly, the video and audio quality is MUCH better. Until Vue and the other live TV streaming services have 1080 and at least 5.1, Comcast it is.
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I've found the opposite true. I find that the Vue service is superior in video quality from what I had with Comcast. Weird...

Same here. Especially after Comcrap decided to down convert all their 1080i channels to 720p and over compress the crap out of everything, and then market it as an "enhancement"!

My Vue is better than the Oceanic TW/Spectrum cable I just ditched on almost every channel! And this is running through a private VPN to Philly where the max speed is about 12Mbps!

I actually just went back to DirecTV and that has easily the best PQ though. If it were only up to me though, I would only use Vue.

On the PiP pop up, I have the nVidia Shield and also saw it, but couldn't figure out how to activate it. Has anyone used that new feature yet, or found out it wasn't for every platform?
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post #925 of 985 Old 08-27-2017, 01:14 PM
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Video seems equal to me. Audio is worse (no 5.1)
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post #926 of 985 Old 08-28-2017, 09:15 AM
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On the PiP pop up, I have the nVidia Shield and also saw it, but couldn't figure out how to activate it. Has anyone used that new feature yet, or found out it wasn't for every platform?
Well, as I understand it, this feature has been there for ever on the PlayStations, but has not previously been available on any of the other devices.

Then, as you mention, this announcement suddenly popped up on the nVidia Shield and the Fire TV. There's been a lot of buzz about this:

https://community.playstation.com/co...retv-WrlW.html , http://cordcuttersnews.com/playstati...-view-fire-tv/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/Vue/comment...on_fire_stick/ , but so far no official explanation from Sony. I've reached out to a contact of mine in Sony to ask what gives, but I haven't heard back so far.

Personally, I have a Fire TV, and I got the announcement, same as everyone else. Looking at the diagram, while it refers to an X button which is only present on PlayStations, it also refers to an icon on the lower level of the transport tray, and that transport tray sure looks exactly like the transport tray in the Fire TV ap (and, perhaps, in the nVidia Shield; I don't know, since I don't have one). So I'm still hoping this wasn't a false alarm. I could sure use PiP, that's for sure.
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post #927 of 985 Old 09-02-2017, 04:19 PM
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Wanted to chime in on this thread as I have had Vue for about 2 months.

I came from DTV and now I'm using Vue with FireTV (2nd Gen) and have 25 MB service that consistently pulls 25-30.

I also tried Hulu.

First off the PQ for Hulu is noticeably worst than DTV or PSV, it has other quirks but the PQ takes it out of the running.

I think the PQ for DTV is slightly better, but only slightly. Overall it's more consistent.

The big downer for PSV is the "cloud DVR", which is not really a DVR its access to on-demand. This is really cumbersome for sports. Like you are watching a Football game that you want to record. Because you are not actually recording it you can't tell it to go over in case of overtime etc. So you have to set the shows that follow the game to record. Then when you are watching it you have to switch to the other shows etc. You get the idea, really awkward.

Second when you set to record an NFL game, it gives you on-demand access to everything, like every NFL broadcast and re-broadcast. Also really annoying as you have to sift through a bunch of stuff to get to the one you want.

Next, say you are watching something and you have to take a break, well guess what, you can't pause live TV with Vue, there is no buffer. That is right you can't pause, you have to add whatever you are watching to the "DVR", then you have to start over, then you have to fast forward to where you were, then you can pause. Absurd!

There are other minor things where DTV is better, like being able to customize the guide (can't with PSV), so if you use the guide you have to scroll through all the stations you never watch.

DTV already want's me back and its looking like I will probably do it. I think the whole streaming thing is just not quite ready for prime time.

I really wanted to be rid of them (DTV), but these streaming services are just not good enough yet.

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post #928 of 985 Old 09-02-2017, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
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Wanted to chime in on this thread as I have had Vue for about 2 months.

I came from DTV and now I'm using Vue with FireTV (2nd Gen) and have 25 MB service that consistently pulls 25-30.

I also tried Hulu.

First off the PQ for Hulu is noticeably worst than DTV or PSV, it has other quirks but the PQ takes it out of the running.

I think the PQ for DTV is slightly better, but only slightly. Overall it's more consistent.

The big downer for PSV is the "cloud DVR", which is not really a DVR its access to on-demand. This is really cumbersome for sports. Like you are watching a Football game that you want to record. Because you are not actually recording it you can't tell it to go over in case of overtime etc. So you have to set the shows that follow the game to record. Then when you are watching it you have to switch to the other shows etc. You get the idea, really awkward.

Second when you set to record an NFL game, it gives you on-demand access to everything, like every NFL broadcast and re-broadcast. Also really annoying as you have to sift through a bunch of stuff to get to the one you want.

Next, say you are watching something and you have to take a break, well guess what, you can't pause live TV with Vue, there is no buffer. That is right you can't pause, you have to add whatever you are watching to the "DVR", then you have to start over, then you have to fast forward to where you were, then you can pause. Absurd!

There are other minor things where DTV is better, like being able to customize the guide (can't with PSV), so if you use the guide you have to scroll through all the stations you never watch.

DTV already want's me back and its looking like I will probably do it. I think the whole streaming thing is just not quite ready for prime time.

I really wanted to be rid of them (DTV), but these streaming services are just not good enough yet.
Thanks for the warning about Vue. We been using YTTV for three months. While they have all the locals, there is a woeful lack of channels. No CNN or the rest of the channels in that family.. Picture quality is excellent. The customer service is personal and almost instantaneous. I have never seen a company with such responsive customer service.
With five Main streaming services, mostly sponsored by huge companies like Google, ATT, DISH, Sony etc. -- things are bound to improve. Google has been at it for less than six months!"
Since we pay for a relatives Comcast bill, we can get the missing channels by using the "go" feature many channels have like CNN GO.
Vue does have all the channels you want in their $44 package. However, I wouldn't be able to put up with all the the idiosyncrasies you described.
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post #929 of 985 Old 09-03-2017, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by John Moschella View Post
The big downer for PSV is the "cloud DVR", which is not really a DVR its access to on-demand.
O.K. you really confused me with this. There is a distinct difference between DVR service and on-demand service. On-demand recordings do not come from a broadcast. They are direct-saved files of the show itself, probably made before the broadcast even took place. They frequently have commercials. Normally, when watching an on-demand show, it is impossible to fast-forward through those commercials.

DVR recordings, on the other hand, are made from a particular station at a particular time, when the show was actually broadcast. One has full control over the recording, in terms of fast-forwarding and/or rewinding through commercials, -- or anything.

In my experience, all of the DVR recordings I've made as a Vue subscriber have been true DVR recordings, not on-demand recordings. In fact, there have been several occasions when I've pulled up a DVR recording I've made and been given the option of watching the DVR recording I've made or the also-available on-demand copy. In other words, I've been getting true DVR recordings, and Vue makes a very clear distinction between DVR recordings and on-demand recordings. So what you say above really confuses me. You're describing what sounds more like DirecTV Now, which does not yet offer any true DVR recordings but only offers on-demand recordings.

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Originally Posted by John Moschella View Post
you can't pause live TV with Vue, there is no buffer. That is right you can't pause,
Again this makes no sense to me at all. Right now I'm watching Discovery channel. This is a show which I have not added to my favorites and which is therefore not being recorded. I just clicked the pause button and it works fine. I use this on all four of my devices all the time (Windows 7 computer, Windows 8 computer, Fire TV and Android phone Vue ap with ChromeCast) and I've never had a problem with this. As far as I recall, it is a five-minute buffer on Fire TV (never timed it with the phone but my guess is it's the same), and it will pause forever on the two computers. Are you sure you're not confusing Vue with another service??

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Moschella View Post
There are other minor things where DTV is better, like being able to customize the guide (can't with PSV), so if you use the guide you have to scroll through all the stations you never watch.
Again this doesn't square with what I see on the guide. If I pull up the guide, whether on the Fire TV, the computers or the phone, I'm seeing my favorite channels listed first, followed by all the channels.

Something is not right.
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post #930 of 985 Old 09-03-2017, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by criggs View Post
O.K. you really confused me with this. There is a distinct difference between DVR service and on-demand service. On-demand recordings do not come from a broadcast. They are direct-saved files of the show itself, probably made before the broadcast even took place. They frequently have commercials. Normally, when watching an on-demand show, it is impossible to fast-forward through those commercials.

DVR recordings, on the other hand, are made from a particular station at a particular time, when the show was actually broadcast. One has full control over the recording, in terms of fast-forwarding and/or rewinding through commercials, -- or anything.

In my experience, all of the DVR recordings I've made as a Vue subscriber have been true DVR recordings, not on-demand recordings. In fact, there have been several occasions when I've pulled up a DVR recording I've made and been given the option of watching the DVR recording I've made or the also-available on-demand copy. In other words, I've been getting true DVR recordings, and Vue makes a very clear distinction between DVR recordings and on-demand recordings. So what you say above really confuses me. You're describing what sounds more like DirecTV Now, which does not yet offer any true DVR recordings but only offers on-demand recordings.



Again this makes no sense to me at all. Right now I'm watching Discovery channel. This is a show which I have not added to my favorites and which is therefore not being recorded. I just clicked the pause button and it works fine. I use this on all four of my devices all the time (Windows 7 computer, Windows 8 computer, Fire TV and Android phone Vue ap with ChromeCast) and I've never had a problem with this. As far as I recall, it is a five-minute buffer on Fire TV (never timed it with the phone but my guess is it's the same), and it will pause forever on the two computers. Are you sure you're not confusing Vue with another service??



Again this doesn't square with what I see on the guide. If I pull up the guide, whether on the Fire TV, the computers or the phone, I'm seeing my favorite channels listed first, followed by all the channels.

Something is not right.

I agree. This has been my experience as well. I haven't had any of the issues that poster mentioned either and yes they are true DVR style recordings.

I have tried almost all of the streaming OTT providers and without doubt the PSVue service is far ahead of the rest. I'm dumbfounded that anyone else could even remotely feel otherwise when they're compared head to head in all departments.
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