Apple TV 5 Supports 4K/UHD HDR with Many Movies on iTunes - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
The "limited audience" is HUGE. The "wider audience" is tiny. It is easy for AVSers to sometimes think we are more in numbers than reality would suggest. If Apple could sell 2,000 more onto a market of 10,000,000, do they care? If the 2000 number becomes 10,000, do they care? I have no reason to believe that the market for the high end features we want is anywhere near 10,000 --- or 100,000 and even if it were, what does it cost Apple to increase sales by .1% or 1%.



We are way too small for Apple to give a darn. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay toooooooooooooo small!!!



If you don't believes me, out of every single person you know or have ever known, how many have systems that could even come close to demonstrating the difference?



If you know anyone in the HT/video/high end audio business (which I was and too a lesser extent still am), they can confirm that the masses (98% or more) use TV sound or sound bars and are perfectly content with that. And THAT is Apple's market.


Oh I believe you. I know the people who want this stuff is a small percentage of the market.
I'm just saying if they wanted to sell more to add more features and they'd sell to this market. Smaller, yes, but still more sales.
It's just the math.

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post #62 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by archer75 View Post
And i'm telling you that all these people not buying it due to missing features would buy it if it had those features thus more sales. Simple math.
Apple has become one of the most successful companies in the world in part by understanding that sometimes limiting features is actually a selling point for a lot of people. For example, in this instance they seem more happy to be able to always mix in system sounds (rather then bitstream soundtracks) and scale content to 60p (rather than pass through native frame rates) because they believe that user experience will appeal to more people (or at least their preferred target audience) than following a different path.

I'm as disappointed as the rest of us about the limitations on display in the new ATV 4k, and hopefully Apple will at least add ATMOS as the RUMOR reported in the Verge article suggests.
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post #63 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 07:11 AM
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Apple TV 5 Supports 4K/UHD HDR with Many Movies on iTunes

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Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
LOL, this can be said for any product ever made. It's not simple math. It's very complex math that involves lots of people with advanced degrees and actual business experience.



"all these people not buying it due to missing features" those few thousands of people(on the high end), are not worth adding the additional features to Apple. If it were, they would add them, simple as that.



They are selling MILLIONS of these to regular people and that is who the product is aimed at.


And I get that. But the original statement was apple wants to sell more. Adding features sells more, not less. Even if more is only a small percentage.
I know exactly who apples market is. That's not what I'm arguing.

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post #64 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by archer75 View Post
And i'm telling you that all these people not buying it due to missing features would buy it if it had those features thus more sales. Simple math.
And if the math said there's not enough of those people on planet Earth who care about a feature to justify dedicating precious Apple engineers to the task of enabling it, then the feature will not exist. And if there is a benefit to it that includes $$$ then Apple will do it. Trying to out-guess Apple is to ignore the fact it is the second-most valuable company in the world and got there by doing things such as eliminating the floppy drive, rejecting Blu-ray, getting rid of buttons from phones, etc.

The reality is if Apple added features that are niche to begin with, and already available on competing devices, that's not exactly the kind of thing that sets the world on fire, and considering the culture at that company, I would not want to be the software engineer arguing "I read an Internet comment in an AV website saying that a couple of guys really want this capability, so can I please have a team to create that code and implement it?"

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post #65 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by archer75 View Post
And I get that. But the original statement was apple wants to sell more. Adding features sells more, not less. Even if more is only a small percentage.
Do you even business Bro You don't just magically add features to a product and then, YAY PROFIT!!.

Every single decision and step during the development, manufacturing, sale, and support process has a cost that is calculated down to fractions of a penny.

Adding additional complexity and options to any product can have a negative effect as well as a positive one. It's not "simple math". If it were, why doesn't every product on the market have every feature and option available crammed into them?

Know your target market and create your product accordingly, that's business 101.

“Audio as a hobby is dying, largely by its own hand. As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal] is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and of perpetual embarrassment for me” - Gordon Holt

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post #66 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 07:16 AM
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I am crossing my fingers on the new Amazon Fire TV coming out in the next month or two (at least support DD+ compressed atmos). The fact that itunes has announced NO Atmos support pisses me off to no end.

This was supposed to be the year that "all your dreams came true"... what are they waiting for, me to be dead or what?

Where is our blu-ray quality streaming option (for those with the service and those who can afford it?). Fine, Don't put a blu-ray hd player in the device, but at least make an available streaming option for the high end crowd...

This is "all" I ask for: Everything my Oppo 203 has but in simple streaming box.

1. TrueHD Atmos
2. 4k at 35mb/s bandwidth streaming
3. Simplification of my rack and easy perfect quality streaming to all devices in my house
4. The elimination of the need for complex distributed video systems in corporate environment

Seriously, I want to give apple or amazon my money but they sure do make it hard as hell.

I think Amazon is going to overtake Apple pretty soon on a side note. Not only are they creating a reasonably credible voice control with Alexa, but that will be connected straight to their library of content. I now have Alexa in my media room controlling my control4 system to the point that I really don't need the Control4 remote control anymore. Controlled now: Room power on/off, input selection (which would no longer be needed with the "perfect" streamer), a few volume preset levels, shades up/down, lights on/off, some transport control (play/pause). I am hoping that Fire TV might be a better option with better voice commands baked in. Alexa's voice controls are limited to "turn on" and "turn off" with control4 which is a bit weird for shades and transport controls. Alexa also is not customized for the room the Echo device is in so it is not "room aware". Every player or light in your house would therefore have to be specially labeled. I bet they will improve this part in the near future.

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post #67 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 07:25 AM
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“Audio as a hobby is dying, largely by its own hand. As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal] is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and of perpetual embarrassment for me” - Gordon Holt

LOVE this and totally true. Go post that on www.WhatsBestForum.com and see what kind of response you get!!!!
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post #68 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 07:27 AM
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it’s also capable of delivering HDR in the HDR10 and Dolby Vision formats.
2016 OLEDs (some of the most popular sets on AVS) need not apply.

It should be noted that it requires 60Hz with DV and all 2016 LG OLEDs do not support Dolby Vision at 60hz only 30Hz. Therefore Dolby Vision is not an option on those TV's... Also, I hope the forced HDR interface doesn't apply to forced HDR for SDR content. The calibration issues would be insane.

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post #69 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 07:28 AM
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Apple TV 5 Supports 4K/UHD HDR with Many Movies on iTunes

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Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
Do you even business Bro You don't just add features to a product and then YAY PROFIT!!.



Every single decision and step during the development, manufacturing, sale, and support process has a cost that is calculated down to fractions of a penny.



Adding additional complexity and options to any product can have a negative effect as well as a positive one. It's not "simple math". If it were, why doesn't every product on the market have every feature and option available crammed into them?



Know your target market and create your product accordingly, that's business 101.


But that's not what I'm arguing. Not apples market or philosophy. Profit or loss. Good or bad business decisions. You are reading way more in to it than what I wrote or responded to.

Just responding to the statement as written that adding more features sells less which is not true.
Adding features sells more. And that cannot be argued. That's it.

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post #70 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by blazar View Post
I think Amazon is going to overtake Apple pretty soon on a side note. Not only are they creating a reasonably credible voice control with Alexa, but that will be connected straight to their library of content. I now have Alexa in my media room controlling my control4 system to the point that I really don't need the Control4 remote control anymore. Controlled now: Room power on/off, input selection (which would no longer be needed with the "perfect" streamer), a few volume preset levels, shades up/down, lights on/off, some transport control (play/pause). I am hoping that Fire TV might be a better option with better voice commands baked in. Alexa's voice controls are limited to "turn on" and "turn off" with control4 which is a bit weird for shades and transport controls. Alexa also is not customized for the room the Echo device is in so it is not "room aware". Every player or light in your house would therefore have to be specially labeled. I bet they will improve this part in the near future.
I disagree with the bolded statement. Unless you mean total revenue in which case you may well be correct. But, except for movies (and Alexa/Siri) and music, they are in very different businesses.

I too use Alexa with Control4 AND LOVE it!! I have yet to try it to turn on the system or some of the other functions you mentioned but I will the next time I use our theater. Thanks for the reminder !!!
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post #71 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 07:36 AM
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Just responding to the statement as written that adding more features sells less which is not true.
Adding features sells more. And that cannot be argued. That's it.
What company is the most valuable publicly traded company(in the history of the world) by about $100 billion over the next closest?

What is the best selling smartphone model in the world?

What is the best selling tablet in the world?

What is the best selling smartwatch in the world?

All of the above have less "features" and options then their competitors. So yes, you absolutely can argue that.

“Audio as a hobby is dying, largely by its own hand. As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal] is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and of perpetual embarrassment for me” - Gordon Holt
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post #72 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
What company is the most valuable publicly traded company(in the history of the world) by about $100 billion over the next closest?



What is the best selling smartphone model in the world?



What is the best selling tablet in the world?



What is the best selling smartwatch in the world?



All of the above have less "features" and options then their competitors. So yes, you absolutely can argue that.


And if they had more features they would sell more. Apples market share next to Android is in the teens. More features would appeal to a very large audience.

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post #73 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 07:48 AM
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https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/21/1...4k-review-2017

here's some choice cuts from this article:

Quote:
the entire tvOS interface has been reworked to run in 4K HDR, but it also won’t let the device switch modes on your TV: from 4K to 1080p, from HDR to SDR, or from a 24Hz refresh rate (for movies) to a 60Hz rate (for games and interface animations). That means that, out of the box, any non-4K content you watch will be upscaled and processed into 4K HDR, running at the highest refresh rate your TV supports, which is usually 60Hz.
Looks like SDR content is upscaled to HDR...


Quote:
The Apple TV also automatically preferences refresh rate over any other setting: if your TV supports 60Hz HDR10 but only 30Hz Dolby Vision (like 2016 LG OLEDs), the Apple TV will pick HDR10, even though HDR10 looks worse than Dolby Vision. Apple told me that’s because it wants the interface and games to run as smoothly as possible; it’s found that the interface judders at 30Hz. So you’ll get worse HDR but a smoother interface, all because the Apple TV won’t switch modes.
does this mean that 2016 OLEDs will not be able to use Dolby Vision?

Quote:
If you have a previous Apple TV, this lack of mode switching is familiar, but remapping SDR content into HDR is a whole new ballgame, and unfortunately, Apple’s HDR video processing is hit or miss. It was great when I watched HD content from iTunes, but it fell down in other apps. I watched The Dark Knight in HD on HBO Go with our video team, and the Apple TV 4K HDR processing blew out all the contrast in the image, sharpened everything to hell, and turned the film grain into noise. The same movie looked fine on iTunes, but it just looked bad from HBO Go. I checked on my older 1080p Apple TV, and HBO Go looked fine. So there’s definitely work to be done here.

The good news is Apple told me it’s continuing to refine the processing it’s doing with the goal of making HD SDR content look normal
this is not good news. Good news would be to have mode switching. But why wouldn't they have mode switching? Why are they heck bent on upconverting all content? Why do they destroy most calibration settings? Why can't 2016 OLEDs get Dolby Vision?

Quote:
All of this adds up to a real devil’s bargain that wouldn’t exist if the Apple TV would simply switch modes on your TV. I asked about it, and Apple told me it thinks mode switching is “inelegant,” because TVs often flicker and display built-in interface elements when they do it. (There’s some classic Apple-ness here.)
Ahhh. A 1 second screen flicker.

Quote:
So from the jump, the Apple TV forces you to run your nice new 4K HDR TV at a suboptimal setting at some point during the course of using it. The specifics of this problem might only be of interest to A/V nerds, but the way it looks in the end will affect every single Apple TV 4K owner. I suspect Apple will eventually add an advanced setting to allow for mode switching, but out of the box right now, this is what you get.
Non-starter. I need to wait for a software upgrade. Or wait until the Xbox One X disappoints me with similar BS... I've waited for this to be my HDR device since my terrible Xbox One S, Shield, and Roku Ultra experiences... The Xbox One S may have fixed their issues (for me it was a Dolby Atmos issue at the time).
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post #74 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 07:49 AM
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Apple TV 5 Supports 4K/UHD HDR with Many Movies on iTunes

You can set atv output to 30hz and get dv. Though the built in apps do dv so I wonder if the tv is doing it at 30 or 60hz?

I don't know how sdr being sent as hdr would look? Has anyone seen this?

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And if they had more features they would sell more. Apples market share next to Android is in the teens. More features would appeal to a very large audience.
Their market share is in the teens but do you know what their "profit-share" is? It's 91%, they capture 91% of the profits in the global smartphone business.

They know exactly what they're doing despite the "advice" from internet posters.

Consumer response to pricing and product features is not black and white, it's market dependent and very few companies know how to maximize their margins as well as grow sales like Apple.

Increasing the number of features could also have a net negative effect on sales if the product is perceived as too complicated and not easy to use.

“Audio as a hobby is dying, largely by its own hand. As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal] is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and of perpetual embarrassment for me” - Gordon Holt

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post #76 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 08:11 AM
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“Audio as a hobby is dying, largely by its own hand. As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal] is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and of perpetual embarrassment for me” - Gordon Holt

LOVE this and totally true. Go post that on www.WhatsBestForum.com and see what kind of response you get!!!!
Founder of Stereophile, telling it like it is.
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post #77 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
2016 OLEDs (some of the most popular sets on AVS) need not apply.

It should be noted that it requires 60Hz with DV and all 2016 LG OLEDs do not support Dolby Vision at 60hz only 30Hz. Therefore Dolby Vision is not an option on those TV's... Also, I hope the forced HDR interface doesn't apply to forced HDR for SDR content. The calibration issues would be insane.

Thoughts on this? @imagic @Scott Wilkinson
My main thought is I'm not running to a store to buy one, that the absolute need for Dolby Vision over HDR10 is overblown, and that since these devices are fairly cheap, get the one that does what you need.

Also, Ultra HD Blu-ray is looking fairly awesome these days, especially since you get UltraViolet with it so you get that Vudu action if you need to stream. Good thing Apple finally added Vudu to Apple TV or else I'd have no use for its Apple TVs whatsoever. Now, maybe. We'll see.
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post #78 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
Their market share is in the teens but do you know what their "profit-share" is? It's 91%, they capture 91% of the profits in the global smartphone business.

They know exactly what they're doing despite the "advice" from internet posters.

Consumer response to pricing and product features is not black and white, it's market dependent and very few companies know how to maximize their margins as well as grow sales like Apple.
But again, that's not the point i'm arguing. I'm sure they know what they're doing and are happy with their market share. I'm responding to the original statement as written. Not all these things outside of that statement.
Adding more features would appeal to a larger audience and still sell more. Again, still can't be argued.

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post #79 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 08:17 AM
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But again, that's not the point i'm arguing. I'm sure they know what they're doing and are happy with their market share. I'm responding to the original statement as written. Not all these things outside of that statement.
Adding more features would appeal to a larger audience and still sell more. Again, still can't be argued.
Wrong again, increasing the number of features could also have a net negative effect on sales if the product is perceived as too complicated and not easy to use.

Consumer perception of Apple is generally associated with ease of use and reliability. Additional features could interfere with that perception as well as the reality of user experience.

It's just as wrong as the "if apple lower prices they'd increase sales" argument. They are currently viewed as a "premium" product and lowering prices would negatively affect that perception as well as sales.

The psychology and science of selling a product is a very complex and well-studied field. Is could not be further from "simply math and more features".

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post #80 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 08:24 AM
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I disagree with the bolded statement. Unless you mean total revenue in which case you may well be correct. But, except for movies (and Alexa/Siri) and music, they are in very different businesses.

I too use Alexa with Control4 AND LOVE it!! I have yet to try it to turn on the system or some of the other functions you mentioned but I will the next time I use our theater. Thanks for the reminder !!!
Both companies have a way to go to catch Roku, if we are just talking streaming players. If we are talking home-grown content, Amazon's shows have done well, Apple is behind.

Amazon may be in a different business, and can't touch Apple when it comes to phones and computers. But it's already water-cooler talk among AV industry and CI industry pros that Apple kinda missed the boat with Siri vs. Alexa and that Amazon is super-duper serious about getting all your money. Even if you run your Alexa app on an iOS device, lol.
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post #81 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 08:25 AM
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Apple TV 5 Supports 4K/UHD HDR with Many Movies on iTunes

I don't know that Dolby vision is any less complicated than Dolby atmos. It's certainly far less supported than atmos.
Though I imagine looking at the specs of supported codecs could seem complicated to someone who doesn't understand. I doubt adding a couple more to that list would make any difference. Hell, they added flac and I guarantee you apples market knows more about the name Dolby than flac.

I understand what you're saying. But again, I'm responding to the original statement as written.

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post #82 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 08:35 AM
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Both companies have a way to go to catch Roku, if we are just talking streaming players. If we are talking home-grown content, Amazon's shows have done well, Apple is behind.

Amazon may be in a different business, and can't touch Apple when it comes to phones and computers. But it's already water-cooler talk among AV industry and CI industry pros that Apple kinda missed the boat and that Amazon is super-duper serious about getting all your money. Even if you run your Alexa app on an iOS device, lol.
I would agree to this statement if Roku figured out a way to stop screwing up there UHD streamers every time they release a firmware upgrade??
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post #83 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 08:45 AM
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I don't know that Dolby vision is any less complicated than Dolby atmos. It's certainly far less supported than atmos.
Though I imagine looking at the specs of supported codecs could seem complicated to someone who doesn't understand. I doubt adding a couple more to that list would make any difference. Hell, they added flac and I guarantee you apples market knows more about the name Dolby than flac.

I understand what you're saying. But again, I'm responding to the original statement as written.
Depends on your definition of supported. I doubt there are more fully Atmos-capable sound systems out there than there are TVs capable of displaying Dolby Vision. With Vizio and LG and TCL selling plenty of Dolby Vision capable TVs, the nubers are in the format's favor.

I'm guessing it's already the case that the Dolby Vision ecosystem is larger. Sure, content availability needs to catch up; Atmos has a jump in that sense, and it's true you can decode Atmos on any modern AVR, but without the speakers to render height effects, you get nothing out of that. With a Dolby Vision-capable TV, you just need content and there's more of that content every day.

I can go to any of my local Walmarts and buy a Dolby Vision TV and also an Apple TV to hook up to it. But, I cannot buy an Atmos-capable sound system there. That's a strong hint of where mass-market priorities are at.
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post #84 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 08:57 AM
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Too many ninny's here...The is going to be an awesome add on to most media rooms and home theaters.

Two arriving tomorrow...
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Depends on your definition of supported. I doubt there are more fully Atmos-capable sound systems out there than there are TVs capable of displaying Dolby Vision. With Vizio and LG and TCL selling plenty of Dolby Vision capable TVs, the nubers are in the format's favor.



I'm guessing it's already the case that the Dolby Vision ecosystem is larger. Sure, content availability needs to catch up; Atmos has a jump in that sense, and it's true you can decode Atmos on any modern AVR, but without the speakers to render height effects, you get nothing out of that. With a Dolby Vision-capable TV, you just need content and there's more of that content every day.



I can go to any of my local Walmarts and buy a Dolby Vision TV and also an Apple TV to hook up to it. But, I cannot buy an Atmos-capable sound system there. That's a strong hint of where mass-market priorities are at.


Walmart sells atmos receivers. There are atmos sound bars. Atmos headphones. Atmos enabled games and game consoles.
There is only one Dolby vision enabled disc I'm aware of. But many bluray and uhd support atmos.
Vudu, Netflix and amazon support atmos. Of course they and apple support Dolby vision now. But like you said it's only available on 3, now 4 tvs with sony(using lg panels).
There are more tvs without than with. Samsung and others are banking on hdr10+ and that's where amazon is going as well.

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Too many ninny's here...The is going to be an awesome add on to most media rooms and home theaters.

Two arriving tomorrow...
Forced HDR is a big deal. some of the other stuff is preference but forced HDR is going to have a large impact on quality.
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Walmart sells atmos receivers. There are atmos sound bars. Atmos headphones. Atmos enabled games and game consoles.
There is only one Dolby vision enabled disc I'm aware of. But many bluray and uhd support atmos.
Vudu, Netflix and amazon support atmos. Of course they and apple support Dolby vision now. But like you said it's only available on 3, now 4 tvs with sony(using lg panels).
There are more tvs without than with. Samsung and others are banking on hdr10+ and that's where amazon is going as well.
1. "Walmart sells atmos receivers." Not in stores, which is what matters in my example. Walmart sells almost anything through its website.

2. "There are atmos sound bars." Yes, there are. And they cost more than a 55" TV that plays Dolby Vision.

3. "Atmos headphones." Yeah, I guess you can say that feature exists. I'm not impressed, but maybe that'll change. Also most people don't watch TV with headphones on.

4. "Atmos enabled games and game consoles." Sure, a couple games have it.

5. "There is only one Dolby vision enabled disc I'm aware of." - There are several now. And if you meant to say disc player, there are more of those on the way, and also streaming is where the action is.

6. "There are more tvs without than with (Dolby Vision)" - Yeah but I still think there are more TVs with Dolby Vision out there than there are TVs hooked up to any kind of Atmos system.

7. "Samsung and others are banking on hdr10+ and that's where amazon is going as well." It's easy enough to support multiple HDR formats with streaming. I expect that will continue. As long as Vizio and LG are on board with Dolby Vision, it's going to stick around.
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Apple's marketing team has done their research, and based upon their purchase funnel made a business plan that was approved by the exec's.

The feature and specs that appeal and sell to mass market are all there ....

The "C" Consideration that is the filter and many don't care - or need - the 0.1% top end stuff for the business case to be successful.


I've got a 64GB ordered, delivery is mid-October.
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post #89 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 09:19 AM
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Forced HDR is a big deal. some of the other stuff is preference but forced HDR is going to have a large impact on quality.
I agree that this is a big deal, but it is not quite forced. You can manually disable it. PITA, but I think this would be a must for most content, based on the reviews.

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post #90 of 574 Old 09-21-2017, 09:38 AM
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1. "Walmart sells atmos receivers." Not in stores, which is what matters in my example. Walmart sells almost anything through its website.



2. "There are atmos sound bars." Yes, there are. And they cost more than a 55" TV that plays Dolby Vision.



3. "Atmos headphones." Yeah, I guess you can say that feature exists. I'm not impressed, but maybe that'll change. Also most people don't watch TV with headphones on.



4. "Atmos enabled games and game consoles." Sure, a couple games have it.



5. "There is only one Dolby vision enabled disc I'm aware of." - There are several now. And if you meant to say disc player, there are more of those on the way, and also streaming is where the action is.



6. "There are more tvs without than with (Dolby Vision)" - Yeah but I still think there are more TVs with Dolby Vision out there than there are TVs hooked up to any kind of Atmos system.



7. "Samsung and others are banking on hdr10+ and that's where amazon is going as well." It's easy enough to support multiple HDR formats with streaming. I expect that will continue. As long as Vizio and LG are on board with Dolby Vision, it's going to stick around.


I have a best buy closer than a Walmart. Besides whatever you order from Walmart can be delivered to the store for pickup. Same diff with a couple of days in between.
Yes, more discs and players are coming.
But I highly doubt there are more dv tvs sold than atmos receivers. Atmos has been out longer and is more widely available.

While they could support multiple hdr formats, Samsung and others have flat out said they wouldn't support dv. Licensing costs. Which is why a group of them got together to develop hdr10+

Do you know which discs support DV? Last I heard it was just despicable me 2. I'd love to pick some up.

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