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post #1 of 27 Old 01-20-2007, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking for a unit to stream recorded HD content from satellite, cable and OTA Broadcast recordings that are in ts or mpeg2 format (usually edited with Videoredo) to an HDTV in another room where my computers are not located. Handling audio files and pictures would be fine but my main concern is good playback with audio (typically AC3) of HD material. Is anyone having success out there in this type of situation? Should I be waiting for the next batch of players like the Netgear 8000? Is what I'm looking for possible with any of the current units? Thanks for any help or advice-steve
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post #2 of 27 Old 01-20-2007, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by christefan View Post

I'm looking for a unit to stream recorded HD content from satellite, cable and OTA Broadcast recordings that are in ts or mpeg2 format (usually edited with Videoredo) to an HDTV in another room where my computers are not located. Handling audio files and pictures would be fine but my main concern is good playback with audio (typically AC3) of HD material. Is anyone having success out there in this type of situation? Should I be waiting for the next batch of players like the Netgear 8000? Is what I'm looking for possible with any of the current units? Thanks for any help or advice-steve

I am looking for exactly the same thing. I currently use an LP2 and it does a good job except for 720p or 1080i at bitrates above 15MB/s. Fortunately most of the OTA I record is at 14.5MB/s and displays smoothly using the LP2.

Others on this forum have suggested the TVIX 5000....I am still in a wait and see mode for now...it would be nice to have 264 capability as well!

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post #3 of 27 Old 01-20-2007, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the help-most of my streams wouldn't be playable based on a 15mb/s limit so I'll have to see if someone reports good performance with some other unit then the LP2-thanks
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post #4 of 27 Old 01-20-2007, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by christefan View Post

Thanks for the help-most of my streams wouldn't be playable based on a 15mb/s limit so I'll have to see if someone reports good performance with some other unit then the LP2-thanks

Out of curiosity, have you looked at the TVIX 5000 or the MB100? What networked media player are you using currently?

I recently got a second HDTV and I am therefore looking for another NMP...not sure I am willing to wait for 6-9months to find out if the Netgear 8000 is the real thing or just smoke and mirrors.

The LP2 has been a good system for what I wanted it to do...which as I said is primarily to play ts files recorded from OTA and edited with VRD. But support for the LP2 is terrible and it does not do the high Bitrate stuff.

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post #5 of 27 Old 01-20-2007, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I put the question up to see if there was anyone using either of those units that would respond with positive reports --I have read specs from both units but in the real world neither really says that they will specifically do ts or mpeg2 of HD streams at bitrates of 15-25mb/s-yes they do state compliance with MPEG 1/2/4 but they leave out the specifics of their compatability which is why so many people are waiting for something that will really do H264/VC1 streams that are the more recent codecs for compression. The write ups on TVix 5000 seem like it would work in my application but I'm looking for reports of people actually using it successfully, I don't need to keep reselling equipment I try but doesn't work out. I hoped that the recent Pioneer Elite Blu-ray player that had DLNA support and was stated as doing MPEG1/2/4 streams would work but no go-video and no audio -on files that can be used in many other ways so copy protection shouldn't have been an issue. So that leaves me still looking for a solution of playing files conveniently.
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post #6 of 27 Old 01-20-2007, 06:48 PM
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I have 2 Tvix 5000's and use them primarily for playback of high bitrate ts's streaming off several Infrants through a wired ethernet network using NFS which is built into the tvix and infrant's. Works very nicely. A little more research and ya probably would find many with the same useage pattern. Good luck.
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post #7 of 27 Old 01-20-2007, 07:28 PM
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I'm currently using the Dlink DSM-510 which plays back 720p/1080i HD transport stream files without any problems. The HDMI video output did need to be calibrated for my display as the default was way off but the picture quality is fine. FF/RW is a little flakey but do function. I have tried using the wireless G option although my network can't support more than ~14mbs. While this does allow wireless streaming of most 720p files, for 1080i recordings it can result in pauses. I could probably try repositioning the antenna(s) although decided a direct cable would be more reliable. Using DUmeter to measure network speed during streaming of 1080i content, files are commonly being transferred at 20mbs. I've tried several different server software for the PC with the files including the built in capabilities of Windows Medial Player 11.

Twonkyvision: My preference for best but currently doesn't natively playback .ts files unless the extension is changed to .mpg. According to author, this should be fixed in next update released next month

MS mediaplayer 11: Actually works fine but doesn't recognize .ts files, its like they aren't even there. I haven't figured out a work around other than renaming them. Odd as they playback fine in windows without being renamed.

TVersity: Lots of people like this program and it does have some nice features but I don't care for the interface and its unstable on my system whereas other programs are not.

Nero Home: This is the software included with the DSM-510 and it is horrible. Do not waste your time installing it.

D-link Media Server 1.08: Available via download from D-link website (under DSM-520 support page) Works fine with all 720p and 1080i files (both .ts and .mpg) although FF/RW are non functional with 1080i and partially functional with 720p. I've spoken to D-link tech support about this issue and they claim to be trying to fix it. I'm not holding my breath but if it were fixed I would probably use their software.

There are a lot of interesting HD media players and some with some great feature sets. Priced ~175 dollars (mine was 125 dollars after a 50 rebate) its a reasonable place to start. IMHO, its not as responsive as polished as PC or a typical STB but its not really an issue as its purpose is to let me watch recorded content from my PC not play games. Until the next generation of Media players that support h.264 are released later this year, I'd say the 510 is a reasonable solution for viewing HD recordings on a display without directly connecting a PC.

Rick
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post #8 of 27 Old 01-22-2007, 07:16 AM
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I would be very wary of the TVIX 5000U I bought it based on the recommendation of the same gentleman recommending it here "check his posts, all he seems to do is recommend the TVIX" and to be quite honest, I haven't been impressed. Green Jaggies, absolute crap at FF and RR, network connection issues, prone to freezing etc.

This is my second Media Streamer the first was the Snazzio, what a piece of crap, a friend has recommended the Helios X5000, I'm looking to check that out provided I can get some good unbiased recommendations from people who are actually using it.

He use it for playing files of USB and it works fine, however he hasn't been able to test it on a network as he doesn't have a network connection in that room
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post #9 of 27 Old 01-22-2007, 08:39 AM
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@qz3fwd and @sheggsl:

Lets see qz3fwd says TVIX5000 is great and sheggsl says it is crap....so much for research!

I guess the devil is in the details...

Whats up guys? any ideas on why your opinions of the TVIX are so different?

@qz3fwd: Do you by any chance work for TVIX?

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post #10 of 27 Old 01-22-2007, 09:08 AM
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These units look nice but I don't see any info on h264 and it looks like you have to have your PC on to use it (no NAS or NDAS).

I still want to hear more about what has been found at CES.....I want to buy something but when will I find the right one?

Help
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post #11 of 27 Old 01-22-2007, 09:14 AM
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My experience with the TVIX isn't unique if you go to the Hi Jack forums a lot of the issues are discussed at length in particular the green jaggies which are downright annoying, it could well be that it works fine for some people, however with my set up which is very similar to what Christefan is looking to archive, i.e streaming HD from a media server via a wired connection, it is definitely flawed.The issue is knowing all this things would I recommend it, I'm afraid it will have to be a no

Also the FF and Rew issues aren't new they just get glossed over, it is an improvement over the first streamer I had, however my limited experience is that most of the streamers still have a long way to go
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post #12 of 27 Old 01-22-2007, 11:05 AM
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Green artifact reports only seem to appear on the DVI output with ?poor quality DVI cables? being the culprit. Since I use component video, I have never seen this issue.

I do not work for Tvix but own 2 units and am looking at a third.
I work in the Automotive industry.

I have owned roku, iodata, buffalo, dlink, mediagate, and linksys product all of which were not acceptable for my purposes.

You need to do your homework, however hard and time consimung it is and decide what you want based on the info you have at hand. If you look in the forums you will see pics of my setup's. I have never had a problem with my 5000's and things are setup perfectly. Since I have found a solution that works perfectly for my purposes and I wasted a lot of money on other inferior products, I have stopped Beta testing for these manufacturers. (At least until devices appear with h264 support).

If you did do the research you would probably find the 5000 is the generally considered the best player on the market for this useage. Look at the threads and number of postings. The Helios seems to have a lot of problems? Please point out which player is the best and why for this useage pattern???

No green jaggies, no freezing, no FF/RW, no network connection issues for me.

Thank You
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post #13 of 27 Old 01-22-2007, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

Green artifact reports only seem to appear on the DVI output with ?poor quality DVI cables? being the culprit. Since I use component video, I have never seen this issue.

I do not work for Tvix but own 2 units and am looking at a third.
I work in the Automotive industry.

I have owned roku, iodata, buffalo, dlink, mediagate, and linksys product all of which were not acceptable for my purposes.

You need to do your homework, however hard and time consimung it is and decide what you want based on the info you have at hand. If you look in the forums you will see pics of my setup's. I have never had a problem with my 5000's and things are setup perfectly. Since I have found a solution that works perfectly for my purposes and I wasted a lot of money on other inferior products, I have stopped Beta testing for these manufacturers. (At least until devices appear with h264 support).

If you did do the research you would probably find the 5000 is the generally considered the best player on the market for this useage. Look at the threads and number of postings. The Helios seems to have a lot of problems? Please point out which player is the best and why for this useage pattern???

No green jaggies, no freezing, no FF/RW, no network connection issues for me.

Thank You

Thanks for posting back. My needs are simple; be able to smoothly play high bitrate 1080i ts files...you have posted that the 5000 can do this but can it do it with my setup? In the end I will have to try it to find out.

You are right, one has to do the homework but as you have demonstrated (all of the previous players you have tried) and most of us have had the same experience, does not always mean all that much.

So if I were to ask a different question...Why do you think the TVIX 5000 can play high bit rate ts files smoothly and my LP2 can not? I think they have the same Sigma chip so is the smooth play dependent on the firmware? the server software? or maybe something in my network or my server PC? The manual and the specs for the TVIX5000 say it can play ts files but it gives no information regarding bitrate...see my point...

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post #14 of 27 Old 01-22-2007, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by christefan View Post

Thanks for the help-most of my streams wouldn't be playable based on a 15mb/s limit so I'll have to see if someone reports good performance with some other unit then the LP2-thanks

I have no trouble with streams > 15Mbits/sec with my LP2. I'm running wizd on a Linux box as my server though, not the IOData supplied Windows server. I also hit the pause button at the beginning of a show to "buffer up" as much data as I can to prevent data underruns before I start viewing.
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post #15 of 27 Old 01-22-2007, 12:35 PM
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I have no trouble with streams > 15Mbits/sec with my LP2. I'm running wizd on a Linux box as my server though, not the IOData supplied Windows server. I also hit the pause button at the beginning of a show to "buffer up" as much data as I can to prevent data underruns before I start viewing.

I run WIZD but on a 2.53 P4 PC that is also my family PC. I can run ts HD files at bitrates of 14.5MB/s but the ones that are 19.6MB/sec stutter on the LP2...are you sure you can run a 19.5MB/sec bitrate on 1080i on your LP2?

I ask because I am trying to understand what is the limiter...the sigma chip in the LP2...the LP2 firmware....my server PC...network....

I do know that my server PC cpu is not pegged when playing high bitrate HD ts files but it stutters anyway. Also, if I am doing cpu intensive tasks, that peg the cpu I will sometimes get stuttering even for the 14.5MB/sec bitrate.

I will try the pause thing and see if that helps...is there a buffer setting in the WIZD ini file?

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post #16 of 27 Old 01-22-2007, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replies guys-you people are great and so is AVS forum, sounds like trial and error is still the order of the day. At least I'm happy to hear someone is having success streaming HD files, I don't really get the point of a unit working for SD, why not just have a DVD hooked up in your system. So- thanks for all the responses, I'll probably try a TViX 4000 or 5000 and see what happens!
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post #17 of 27 Old 01-22-2007, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by christefan View Post

Thanks for all the replies guys-you people are great and so is AVS forum, sounds like trial and error is still the order of the day. At least I'm happy to hear someone is having success streaming HD files, I don't really get the point of a unit working for SD, why not just have a DVD hooked up in your system. So- thanks for all the responses, I'll probably try a TViX 4000 or 5000 and see what happens!

Just been reading over at the Pixel Magic forum that several people report that they can not smoothly stream HD ts files above 14.5MB/sec with the MB100 or the TVIX 5000. The interesting thing is that one poster claimed to be able to do it using the TVIX5000...but after they compared notes more closely it turned out he could not.

The conclusion I am coming too is that if the player has the Sigma 8620L (8621 included) series chip then it probably will not smoothly play 1080i HD at bitrates above 14.5MB/sec. So as many have said on this forum...wait until someone builds a media player with a better chip!

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post #18 of 27 Old 01-23-2007, 07:34 AM
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19.5MB/sec bitrate playback of 1080i content on your LP2 is probably limited by (1) poor software/firmware, and (2) network hardware, (3) iodata relies on SMB which has been identified as not up to the task of streaming high bitrate ts's using the Tvix and that is why people use NFS.

Wait to buy a 4000 until they work the bugs out-its only been out for a few weeks and there appears to be a network line rate issue.

So, I use gigabit switches, content stored on gigabit Infrant ReadyNAS's, using CAT6 cable (not CAT5), to the (2) Tvix 5000's and can playback (2) 18+ MB/s streams while also writing to the Infrant from my workstation without any playback glitches. No other product I have owned has been able to do this. But this is my specific setup. I do not skimp on super bargin bin hardware and research before I buy. Not sure what sheg's problems are/were but I 'd take his 5000 off his hands.

Now if Dvico gets the add on HDTV tuner out for the 5000 I will be able to use the empty 750 Seagate's to schedule my weekly recording's and not have to fire up the workstation to make the caps.
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post #19 of 27 Old 01-23-2007, 07:38 AM
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Tonight, I will playback some of the 18+ caps from this/last weekend and also try to find the highest bitrate stuff I have and post MY experiences here with MY setup. I think I have 25+MB/s cap's.
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post #20 of 27 Old 01-23-2007, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

19.5MB/sec bitrate playback of 1080i content on your LP2 is probably limited by (1) poor software/firmware, and (2) network hardware, (3) iodata relies on SMB which has been identified as not up to the task of streaming high bitrate ts's using the Tvix and that is why people use NFS.

Wait to buy a 4000 until they work the bugs out-its only been out for a few weeks and there appears to be a network line rate issue.

So, I use gigabit switches, content stored on gigabit Infrant ReadyNAS's, using CAT6 cable (not CAT5), to the (2) Tvix 5000's and can playback (2) 18+ MB/s streams while also writing to the Infrant from my workstation without any playback glitches. No other product I have owned has been able to do this. But this is my specific setup. I do not skimp on super bargin bin hardware and research before I buy. Not sure what sheg's problems are/were but I 'd take his 5000 off his hands.

Now if Dvico gets the add on HDTV tuner out for the 5000 I will be able to use the empty 750 Seagate's to schedule my weekly recording's and not have to fire up the workstation to make the caps.

Thanks again for the post. Does the server software which I think is called TVIX Manager, have NFS built into it?

What was I thinking of doing in the not too distant future was to convert my old Gateway 1.3Ghz to a server by loading NASlite. Your suggesting that I also replace my router, my switch and install a gigabit LAN in the server PC...is that correct?

By the time I get my network up to speed...hopefully the TVIX 4000 bugs will be ironed out.

One other question, I have 7200rpm PATA HDDs, some internal and some USB...could that be an issue? They range between 50 and 20MB/sec on the transfer rate.

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post #21 of 27 Old 01-23-2007, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

Wait to buy a 4000 until they work the bugs out-its only been out for a few weeks and there appears to be a network line rate issue.

There are a few cases where people reported connectivity problems with their new M4000-P's only getting 10 Mb/s half duplex, but these are isolated cases rather than endemic. Mine's working fine, and there have been a number of other similar reports of full speed networking.

I'm not faulting qz3fwd on the confusion, because there was a lot of posts and angsting about the problems reported on the first shipments. Eventually it was found to be a few cases rather than a general problem. I'm not advocating that people race out to buy the M4000-P if they have time to wait, but I think a lot of us are pretty happy thusfar and I suspect they perform similarly to the M5000s.
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post #22 of 27 Old 01-23-2007, 01:40 PM
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TVIX Manager is a NFS server which can only share 1 drive as far as I know. If you have multiple drives/partitions, you could probably mount the partitions to a directory below what you shre using the TVIX Manager. Personally, my Infrants natively support NFS so I dont need the TVIX Manager. However if you use a PC as a file server, you will need a NFS server-whether its MS Services For Unix, TVIX Manager, or another NFS Server.

I am not suggesting you replace all your networking hardware-just that I use a gigabit LAN which has more overall bandwidth than 10/100 Ethernet and have never had a problem. Performance of networking hardware can vary immensly-just look at tomshardware.

I would think the 1.3 Celeron could fileshare just fine.

The internal PATA/SATA Hard drives should have plenty of bandwidth for file serving unless they are very fragmented and not laptop hard drives. Not so sure of USB drives since I have never been impressed with the USB interfaces sustained transfer rate, and use firewire exclusively for just this reason. I just bought a cooldrives, firewire, dual drive, external hot swapable SATA RAID/JBOD enclosure for my OTA captures and editing. Just say no to crappy USB. Ha-ha. Then again I am used to 15,000 RPM SCSI U320 Hard Drives. Call me impatient.

http://www.cooldrives.com/sata-to-fi...sure-raid.html

Plop a Seagate 750 in each of the 2 bays for capturing/editing HDTV. When they fill up just put another new drive in the hot swap bay and put the full drive in storage.

Good news gnat-I plan on getting a 4000 for my living room 50" 720 TV but read of some of the problems and I know they are sold out until Feb so I thought I would wait a little longer before ordering a 4000.
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post #23 of 27 Old 01-23-2007, 04:31 PM
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I am not suggesting you replace all your networking hardware-just that I use a gigabit LAN which has more overall bandwidth than 10/100 Ethernet and have never had a problem. Performance of networking hardware can vary immensly-just look at tomshardware.

Just to be clear, the LAN your referring to is the LAN on the PC/server. In my specific case your suggesting that the 1.3Ghz server I intend to build should have a gigabit LAN in it.

Thanks for all of your help. I have learned a great deal and it will not only help me have a good experience with a TVIX but it may even help my current situation.

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post #24 of 27 Old 01-23-2007, 06:45 PM
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Although not in production in more, I have 3 Roku's I use to do just that-stream .ts 1080i and it works perfectly for me. It requires the latest firmware 2.35 or 2.36, and MPlay- the fantastic 3rd party app to make it work. Once that is done you are set. With the 3rd party apps, the roku really does both audio and video very well. See below for a few links. --Darin

http://www.rokulabs.com/forums/index.php
http://www.permanence.com/MPlay/index.html
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post #25 of 27 Old 01-24-2007, 09:55 AM
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When I refer to LAN I mean the packet routing hardware (switch/router).
Additionally the pc/server sending out the packets should have sufficient bandwidth for several HD streams concurrently. A gigabit ethernet card costs like 10-20 bucks. If you are trying to access 2 HD streams concurrently and your pc cannot handle it, then it is irrelevant what kind of switch/router you have. Finally the device playingback the content only needs 100 Mb Ethernet.

The bottom line is that you need to make sure both your file server and networking hardware are not going to be bottlenecks.

Try what you already have and if you have networking problems then investigate the root cause and then upgrade your hardware if you have to.

(I have been able to use my circa 1998 Dell 750 MHZ laptop w/4200 RPM hard drive and 100 Mb Ethernet to stream a HD movie to the tvix-so your 1.3 should be more than up to the task of sharing at least 1 HD stream) You probably want to use Windows 2000, XP, or 2003 for file serving purposes and not ME/98/95 (Does anybody use these anymore???) AND make sure the filesystem is NTFS and NOT FAT/FAT32 since you will have problems with large files otherwise.
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post #26 of 27 Old 01-24-2007, 01:06 PM
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give the zensonic z500 a try...i have a couple and use them almost exclusively to stream MPG and TS video around the house from files on BuffaloTech gigabit linkstations. the z500 streams from upnp servers (e.g. twonky) or SMB and hidef video works fine with both mechanisms.

i have no problem with any HiDef files up to 20mb/s.........haven't tried any
at higher rates than that.

the only time i've had problems is occasionally when transferring files across the home LAN while simultaneously viewing video (i.e. a transfer of 30-40 MB/s from drive to drive can cause stuttering on the video, probably due to buffering/qos issues)..............i have no problem streaming video to 2 z500s simultaneously
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post #27 of 27 Old 01-24-2007, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat6man View Post

give the zensonic z500 a try...i have a couple and use them almost exclusively to stream MPG and TS video around the house from files on BuffaloTech gigabit linkstations. the z500 streams from upnp servers (e.g. twonky) or SMB and hidef video works fine with both mechanisms.

i have no problem with any HiDef files up to 20mb/s.........haven't tried any
at higher rates than that.

the only time i've had problems is occasionally when transferring files across the home LAN while simultaneously viewing video (i.e. a transfer of 30-40 MB/s from drive to drive can cause stuttering on the video, probably due to buffering/qos issues)..............i have no problem streaming video to 2 z500s simultaneously

Do you have the 1st gen Terastation without DLNA ? Unfortunately for me that's what I own and I tried installing Twonkyvision on it but it won't install, so since I don't want to have a PC on all the time, I'm stuck with using a LinkTheater as client so I can use Pcast.

All that was fine before but now that I moved into a new place, I'd like to be able to use other, more advanced clients on 3 different TVs/rooms. I looked at the Z500 but it seems I would need Twonkyvision installed on my NAS for it to work. Is my assumption correct ?

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