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post #1 of 37 Old 02-20-2007, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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So, does anyone know of any streamers that will stream ripped HD-DVD files? Will the xbox360 do it? With AnyDVD HD coming out over the weekend, I was wondering if anyone else has pondered how they might be able to store/stream their HD-DVD collection once you have it backed up??

Thank you,
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post #2 of 37 Old 02-21-2007, 05:26 AM
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Good question.
In principle the new Netgear and D-Link network media boxes should do it. Has anyone got their hands on one and tried it yet?

Matt.
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post #3 of 37 Old 02-21-2007, 03:24 PM
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IIRC, according to its manual (linked here, somewhere), the Netgear tops out at 15 Mbps. If true, it may struggle to handle garden variety ATSC/QAM HDTV captures--not to mention higher bitrate formats.

I continue to be amazed that the people who design most such products (not just Netgear!) remain so consistently behind the curve. It can't be just a matter of minimizing production costs. They must live on Mars (and get their news with a lag).
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post #4 of 37 Old 02-22-2007, 05:11 AM
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That's no better than my Snazio! These devices should be improving in capability at PC-like rates. Very disappointing.

Matt.
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post #5 of 37 Old 02-22-2007, 12:58 PM
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Sigma Designs was sampling the EM8634L in August of 2005. Anyone know why has it taken so long to get products based on this processor to market? Are there problems with it that are preventing development of a viable product based on it?
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post #6 of 37 Old 02-22-2007, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhue View Post

Sigma Designs was sampling the EM8634L in August of 2005. Anyone know why has it taken so long to get products based on this processor to market? Are there problems with it that are preventing development of a viable product based on it?

You can find the chip in most of the Blu-ray players (Panasonic, Sony, Pioneer) so there are viable products out there based on it. Unfortunately, no streamers though.

The new streamers from Netgear and Dlink will be using the EM8622 chip so it looks like we will have to wait at least a year or two before we see the 8634 used in a streamer.

What really gets my goat is that Moviebeam's player has been using the EM8622 for over a year now (!) and Netgear/Dlink are just now starting to use it in their new products (which haven't even shown up on store shelves yet). To make matters worse, market leader Tvix is still introducing new streamers using the very old EM8620 chip.

Why are these companys using such old and outdated technology? The only reason I can think of is that the older chips are cheaper to buy from Sigma. But you would think that there would be a market for streamers based on the lastest and greatest chips even if it meant a higher retail price.
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post #7 of 37 Old 02-22-2007, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny View Post

Why are these companys using such old and outdated technology? The only reason I can think of is that the older chips are cheaper to buy from Sigma.

Maybe they already bought a train-load of older chips they have to use up?

Maybe they're dependent on Sigma for software development, and Sigma can't or won't hurry it up?
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post #8 of 37 Old 02-22-2007, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny View Post

You can find the chip in most of the Blu-ray players (Panasonic,

Why are these companys using such old and outdated technology? The only reason I can think of is that the older chips are cheaper to buy from Sigma. But you would think that there would be a market for streamers based on the lastest and greatest chips even if it meant a higher retail price.

Different users have different needs. Its like saying why are people still buying Celeron Computers when they should be buying the latest Core 2 Duo. And you are right, price has a lot to do with it. Latest and greatest is all good but whats the point when the firmware is not mature and has a lot of problems. Every technology especially media streamers takes a bit of time to mature.

New technology is always expensive at first and only the early adopters will go for it so there is not much mass market potential for it due to high prices. The 8620 Chips is by no means outdated. It can still stream in High Def, play Transport Stream, WMV9, Mpeg 4 etc and still very much alive. Still has a ways to go before it becomes obsolete. It cant play H.264 but not everyone is into H.264. I happily enjoy MPEG2/TS High Def files. In fact the majority of users still use this.
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post #9 of 37 Old 02-23-2007, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuna View Post

The 8620 Chips is by no means outdated.

Oh, yes it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuna View Post

It can still stream in High Def, play Transport Stream, WMV9, Mpeg 4 etc and still very much alive. Still has a ways to go before it becomes obsolete. It cant play H.264 but not everyone is into H.264. I happily enjoy MPEG2/TS High Def files. In fact the majority of users still use this.

In case you haven't noticed, all high def broadcasting in Europe is done in H.264. So for us Europeans the current media streamers are basically useless.
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post #10 of 37 Old 02-25-2007, 12:50 AM
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Depends on your definition of 'European' and 'useless'.

I don't expect to get rid of my current TV for a long while, and I also don't expect high definition broadcasting over the air to come in England for a long time.

So it's not useless to me.
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post #11 of 37 Old 02-25-2007, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcohen View Post

Depends on your definition of 'European' and 'useless'.

I don't expect to get rid of my current TV for a long while, and I also don't expect high definition broadcasting over the air to come in England for a long time.

So it's not useless to me.

Well, this thread is about a "HD-DVD streamer". So I understand this thread to be about HD streaming. And as such any 8620 based media streamer is useless for European people.

Btw, I've recently read that BBC plans to do HD broadcasting over DVB-T soon enough.
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post #12 of 37 Old 02-25-2007, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Well, this thread is about a "HD-DVD streamer". So I understand this thread to be about HD streaming. And as such any 8620 based media streamer is useless for European people.

Btw, I've recently read that BBC plans to do HD broadcasting over DVB-T soon enough.

Madshi

Europe including Auntie Beeb is playing catch up the US and other parts of the world, which is actually quite unusual with technology standards. It might be useless to you but not to the people who are actually receiving HD content, not sometime in the future, but NOW.

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post #13 of 37 Old 02-25-2007, 02:54 PM
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Well, I tried streaming from my Vista MCE (X2 4200+) to my XP gaming machine (X2 4800+), 100Mbps/Full Duplex switched network (3COM SuperStackers).

Gigabit may be the only way to do this, although I didn't do any major troubleshooting. Major stuttering in video and audio, and just painful to watch.

I may set up a dedicated VLAN though from/to the secondary ports on these machines. They're both good enough to play HD-DVDs on their own, so I need to start at the network.

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post #14 of 37 Old 02-25-2007, 04:31 PM
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You wont see any HD-DVD or Blu-Ray streamer for at least another year. Like Plumeria said, it may be useless to you but not to the majority for the users out there.
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post #15 of 37 Old 02-25-2007, 06:39 PM
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I haven't followed the HD-DVD threads but can the ripped disc be converted to a .mpg file so it can be streamed?

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post #16 of 37 Old 02-25-2007, 11:49 PM
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> To make matters worse, market leader Tvix is still introducing new streamers using the very old EM8620 chip. Why are these companys using such old and outdated technology?

I used to live in Korea, so I have some insight here.

Tvix is a Korean company, and the Tvix products have been designed primarily with the Korean market in mind. The older chip satisfies 99.99% of the downloads Korean people do.

HD material in Korea is primarily from the websites of Korean TV companies. It's a known format, not H264.

Hence, in it's own market, there's no H264 need. In fact if you search the net or torrent, I bet you wont find a single HD file encoded in H264 which started life in Korea.

That's why all HD format is ropey (ts files jumping every 10 minutes, etc). It's just not used in Korea.

Going forward, let's hope that Tvix get their designers to look outside of Korea and see there is a global demand for H264.
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post #17 of 37 Old 02-26-2007, 12:15 AM
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Even if there is a H.264 player now, you need to give at least a year for it to mature. thats the problem with bleeding edge technology, it takes time to mature because of the complexities involved.
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post #18 of 37 Old 02-26-2007, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plumeria View Post

Madshi

Europe including Auntie Beeb is playing catch up the US and other parts of the world, which is actually quite unusual with technology standards. It might be useless to you but not to the people who are actually receiving HD content, not sometime in the future, but NOW.

peter

So we Europeans are not actually receiving HD content now? It's good that you tell me that! I'm wondering what I have on my 1.2 Terrabyte RAID array then. I thought it was full of high quality H.264 broadcasts recorded here in Germany.
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post #19 of 37 Old 02-26-2007, 08:50 AM
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The new M-5010P uses the EM8621 and is built for use with ATSC. I wonder whether it can handle HD-DVD bitrates?

http://www.tvix.co.kr/kor/products/tvix5010p_spec.aspx

Dan
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post #20 of 37 Old 02-26-2007, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by dschmelzer View Post

The new M-5010P uses the EM8621 and is built for use with ATSC. I wonder whether it can handle HD-DVD bitrates?

http://www.tvix.co.kr/kor/products/tvix5010p_spec.aspx

That's interesting, I didn't even know a 5010P existed! Anyway, it doesn't list H.264 nor VC-1 as supported formats, so it seems that it will not be able to do HD-DVD playback.
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post #21 of 37 Old 02-26-2007, 09:08 AM
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Good point. I had not noticed that.

Dan
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post #22 of 37 Old 02-26-2007, 09:35 AM
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What about the Pioneer BDP-HD1? I know it's not cheap, but it has Ethernet, and supposedly will play H264 files over a network if the file extension is renamed to .mpg.

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post #23 of 37 Old 02-26-2007, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahester View Post

What about the Pioneer BDP-HD1? I know it's not cheap, but it has Ethernet, and supposedly will play H264 files over a network if the file extension is renamed to .mpg.

It does? When the Pioneer came out I looked through the owners thread because I hoped the Pioneer would do HD streaming, but from what I had read I thought it would only do SD streaming. I asked for clarification in that thread twice, but got no reply. After a few weeks I didn't read that thread, anymore. So maybe my information is out of date?
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post #24 of 37 Old 02-26-2007, 02:56 PM
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According to this post, H264 transport streams with AC3 audio are supported.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9582832

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post #25 of 37 Old 02-26-2007, 03:36 PM
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Even if it supports H.264 there is no way it will play HD-DVD files at that bit rate leave alone supporting that format, not sure what file extension HD-DVD uses. You will need something like the Sigma 8634 for that. No way that the 8622 chip will play such a high bit rate.
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post #26 of 37 Old 02-26-2007, 04:08 PM
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Regarding h.264 decoding on a streamer, the Apple TV box might work, despite its deficiencies otherwise. But am I remembering correctly that most HD-DVD discs are encoded in VC-1?

Edit: It appears from the specs that I was in error. While the specs look like they are in flux, the current ones list 720p24 as the top file format listed. I was under the impression that it could decode higher resolutions, but had a max output resolution of 720p. My bad.

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post #27 of 37 Old 02-26-2007, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahester View Post

According to this post, H264 transport streams with AC3 audio are supported.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9582832

That sounds quite good - thanks for the link!

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Originally Posted by chuna View Post

Even if it supports H.264 there is no way it will play HD-DVD files at that bit rate leave alone supporting that format, not sure what file extension HD-DVD uses. You will need something like the Sigma 8634 for that. No way that the 8622 chip will play such a high bit rate.

The Pioneer has a 863x, of course.
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post #28 of 37 Old 02-27-2007, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

That's interesting, I didn't even know a 5010P existed! Anyway, it doesn't list H.264 nor VC-1 as supported formats, so it seems that it will not be able to do HD-DVD playback.

WMV9 is VC-1 compliant, and all Sigma 862x-based players support WMV9 (up to MP@High). My LinkPlayer2 can play all of the high-def WMV9 clips off the Microsoft WMV HD Showcase, even the 1080p ones, albeit limited to sources of 10Mbits/sec or less.
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post #29 of 37 Old 02-27-2007, 03:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhue View Post

WMV9 is VC-1 compliant, and all Sigma 862x-based players support WMV9 (up to MP@High). My LinkPlayer2 can play all of the high-def WMV9 clips off the Microsoft WMV HD Showcase, even the 1080p ones, albeit limited to sources of 10Mbits/sec or less.

You are forgetting that the HD-DVD is at least 36Mbit or above on the bitrate something that the Sigma 862X cannot handle. There is not enough horsepower for that kind of bit rate for the 862X. It will however work with the 863X chipsets.
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post #30 of 37 Old 02-27-2007, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhue View Post

WMV9 is VC-1 compliant, and all Sigma 862x-based players support WMV9 (up to MP@High). My LinkPlayer2 can play all of the high-def WMV9 clips off the Microsoft WMV HD Showcase, even the 1080p ones, albeit limited to sources of 10Mbits/sec or less.

Hmmmm... Please check this out:

http://www.sigmadesigns.com/public/P...EM8620L_br.pdf

According to the table at the bottom of the PDF the 8620/8621 can't do VC-1 and H.264 while the 8622 and higher can do that. The table doesn't seperate VC-1 and H.264, though, so it might be misleading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhue View Post

WMV9 is VC-1 compliant

What does that mean in the first place?

(1) Can a VC-1 decoder decode WMV9 streams?
(2) Can a WMV9 decoder decode VC-1 streams?

I'm not really sure, but I think that (1) is yes and (2) is no. Or am I wrong? If I'm right, the 8620/8621 can not play VC-1 streams, but only WMV9 streams.
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