Flat panel shoot-out 7/18-19/08 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1057 Old 06-15-2008, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by gus738 View Post

bob a mag is not a good place to compare


If he is talking about Magnolia then I would have disagree. Every Magnolia I have ever been in has very little light or a completely dark room. Its not like he said he viewed them in the best buy floor area. If he was given free reign over the remotes than he could have had a very good comparison.
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post #182 of 1057 Old 06-15-2008, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes Panasonic 800 or 850 is in the mix. On the main shoot-out wall I have room for 6 50" to 52" panels so lets get a list of which panels most of us woudl want to see compared.

-Robert
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post #183 of 1057 Old 06-15-2008, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKDog View Post

Which Panny models?
thx.

The 50" was an 85U or 800?

The other was the 65", didn't catch the model. The salesman was complaining hat he couldn't get the color/black levels right on the 6020 (Too crushed) THe 50" 1080P Panny did look the most natural


bob
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post #184 of 1057 Old 06-15-2008, 07:30 AM
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wtfer well the xbr8 wont make it and the 81 series has already lost to the 8g kuro.... read here http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/fea...-round-ii.html

both were calibrated by pros and several pros were there to judge

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Any chance you can bring last years Samsung 81 LED LCD series to the mix in case Sony doesn't come through with the XBR8?

I would love to see how it compares when calibrated by professionals to the other displays.

i think mostly everyone would agree that the bestbuy/magnolia is not the best place to compare.

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I know, but it was the same DTV HD feed for all and I adjusted all to standard.


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post #185 of 1057 Old 06-15-2008, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Yes Panasonic 800 or 850 is in the mix. On the main shoot-out wall I have room for 6 50" to 52" panels so lets get a list of which panels most of us woudl want to see compared.

-Robert

+1. Definitely want to see either the 850 or 800. Prefer the 850 if you can get it.

Ed
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post #186 of 1057 Old 06-15-2008, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by TheKnobber View Post

+1. Definitely want to see either the 850 or 800. Prefer the 850 if you can get it.

Ed

Which Panny is thx? That would be a good choice.


bob
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post #187 of 1057 Old 06-15-2008, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

Which Panny is thx? That would be a good choice.


bob

800u, but the 850 stilll has more calibration options.

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post #188 of 1057 Old 06-16-2008, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I was able to get Pioneer's new Elite PRO-FPJ1 and will likely set it up with our VP50 in our dedicated theater demo room. The fun just doesn't stop.

-Robert
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post #189 of 1057 Old 06-16-2008, 10:08 AM
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Robert,

Are there still any openings left for this shoot out?

Thanks,

Mike

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post #190 of 1057 Old 06-16-2008, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Yes Panasonic 800 or 850 is in the mix. On the main shoot-out wall I have room for 6 50" to 52" panels so lets get a list of which panels most of us woudl want to see compared.

-Robert

Thanks Robert, I would also love to see the Panny in the shoot-out wall. I would replace the Sharp with the Panny if you ask me b/c this event starts out as a Plasma shoot-out, not flat panel shoot-out. Nothing against the Sharp though.
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post #191 of 1057 Old 06-17-2008, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Mike, yes we still have some seats open for Friday's 7:00 PM class..

Yes, SoSo I agree.

-Robert
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post #192 of 1057 Old 06-17-2008, 07:49 AM
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Forgive my plasma ignorance, but what is the difference between the PDP-5010FD and the PDP-5020FD? Google made them out to be pretty similar. Wouldn't the lesser one of those be a better swap for the Panasonic?

For me I'd just be happy with the LCD's clumped together and the plasma's clumped together. When I was shopping, I never really compared the 2 against each other. I researched each technology learning each ones advantages and disadvantages, then made my pick. Once I had picked a technology I then dove into the PQ and side by side comparisons. But then I might just be odd.
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post #193 of 1057 Old 06-17-2008, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warder45 View Post

Forgive my plasma ignorance, but what is the difference between the PDP-5010FD and the PDP-5020FD? Google made them out to be pretty similar. Wouldn't the lesser one of those be a better swap for the Panasonic?

For me I'd just be happy with the LCD's clumped together and the plasma's clumped together. When I was shopping, I never really compared the 2 against each other. I researched each technology learning each ones advantages and disadvantages, then made my pick. Once I had picked a technology I then dove into the PQ and side by side comparisons. But then I might just be odd.

5010 is last generation plasma panel and 5020 is the newest. By including both side by side, people can see the technology advancement and improvement. There is already a very strong LCD contender in the mix, the Samsung LN52A650, to show how the latest generation LCD vs. plasma technology. To me, if needed to include another LCD on the shoot out wall, it would be the LED backlighted LCD. Just my $0.02.
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post #194 of 1057 Old 06-17-2008, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Mike, yes we still have some seats open for Friday's 7:00 PM class..

Yes, SoSo I agree.

-Robert

I would like to attend Friday's class.

Should I PM you with the request.

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post #195 of 1057 Old 06-17-2008, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoSo View Post

5010 is last generation plasma panel and 5020 is the newest. By including both side by side, people can see the technology advancement and improvement. There is already a very strong LCD contender in the mix, the Samsung LN52A650, to show how the latest generation LCD vs. plasma technology. To me, if needed to include another LCD on the shoot out wall, it would be the LED backlighted LCD. Just my $0.02.

Thanks, I thought the PRO-111FD was the newest Kuro?

Anyways, I'm happy enough with the XF550 being included. I can't wait to hear about event.
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post #196 of 1057 Old 06-17-2008, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warder45 View Post

Thanks, I thought the PRO-111FD was the newest Kuro?

Anyways, I'm happy enough with the XF550 being included. I can't wait to hear about event.

It is.

5020 = 50" non-Elite
111 = 50" Elite
101 = 50" Signature
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post #197 of 1057 Old 06-17-2008, 04:50 PM
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Toshiba has one of the best implementations of 120Hz technology, based upon articles and reviews I've seen, so its inclusion is a good idea.
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post #198 of 1057 Old 06-18-2008, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 View Post

wtfer well the xbr8 wont make it and the 81 series has already lost to the 8g kuro.... read here http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/fea...-round-ii.html

both were calibrated by pros and several pros were there to judge

The problem is they didn't list the calibrations for both sets or show any pictures.
In fact the only pictures of the 81 LED LCD & the Kuro in the same room were from Pioneers shootout. Those pictures specifaclly had the 81 series shot at a off-angle & they might have had the LED option turned off on it as well.

I ask this because a few ISF calibraters posted on the official 81f thread & said they gave it an edge over some Kuros they calibrated.
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post #199 of 1057 Old 06-18-2008, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

The problem is they didn't list the calibrations for both sets or show any pictures.
In fact the only pictures of the 81 LED LCD & the Kuro in the same room were from Pioneers shootout. Those pictures specifaclly had the 81 series shot at a off-angle & they might have had the LED option turned off on it as well.

I ask this because a few ISF calibraters posted on the official 81f thread & said they gave it an edge over some Kuros they calibrated.


Considering statements made about the Samsung LCD display during the shootout that go from uneven grayscale, oversaturated colors, bad off angle viewing, lower contrast....I can't see how furnishing pictures to be viewed on non calibrated displays (many of which are LCD displays) could have been more effective.

For my standards, any of those four would have been enough to not consider a display, much less having all four show up on the same display.

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post #200 of 1057 Old 06-18-2008, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by prepress View Post

Toshiba has one of the best implementations of 120Hz technology, based upon articles and reviews I've seen, so its inclusion is a good idea.

I agree and believe it or not; I was instrumental in getting Toshiba to implement 5:5 pull down, the only correct way to get to 120fps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 View Post

wtfer well the xbr8 wont make it and the 81 series has already lost to the 8g kuro.... read here http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/fea...-round-ii.html

both were calibrated by pros and several pros were there to judge

i think mostly everyone would agree that the bestbuy/magnolia is not the best place to compare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

The problem is they didn't list the calibrations for both sets or show any pictures.
In fact the only pictures of the 81 LED LCD & the Kuro in the same room were from Pioneers shootout. Those pictures specifically had the 81 series shot at a off-angle & they might have had the LED option turned off on it as well.

I ask this because a few ISF calibraters posted on the official 81f thread & said they gave it an edge over some Kuros they calibrated.

Sorry to disagree, but Samsung's 81 series does not compare to the 8G or 9G Kuro's in black level, contrast ratio, detail, depth, color accuracy and of course, off angle viewing.

I am including Samsung's LN52A650 or LN52A750 as I hope the successor to the 81 series will have a shot at the golden ring.

-Robert
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post #201 of 1057 Old 06-18-2008, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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To further my post above ^^, here's a link to a post a few moments ago from a A650 owner who now has the 5020 and talks about the differences.

-Robert
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post #202 of 1057 Old 06-18-2008, 08:26 PM
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Robert:

There's been a lot of talk about using Oppo 980 to feed the Pioneers with 480i over HDMI in order to allow the Pioneer to do the upscaling. But those who have the xx20s seem to find that feeding the Pioneer a raw 480i signal does not result in the best picture. Is this something we could explore during the shoot-out?

Also, I can't tell from the Pioneeer Blu-ray specs whether they pass a 480i signal over to the TV and, if they do, if that's the way to go or to have the BD do the upscale. Maybe if you pair up one of the Pio blu-ray players to the new Pios to show the impact of Pio integration, we can test this issue at the same time?

thanks.

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post #203 of 1057 Old 06-18-2008, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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sbwtwo, ^^ we'll have plenty of very technical Pioneer specialists and one of the very best ISF founding certified calibrator and instructor, several other a/v specialists as well as all of the equipment to test and demonstrate 480i scalling in all of the panels.

My understanding is that it would be best from most BD players to feed the disc's native resolution of 480i and let the panel do the scalling. We'll soon find out the definitive answer.

-Robert
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post #204 of 1057 Old 06-18-2008, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

To further my post above ^^, here's a link to a post a few moments ago from a A650 owner who now has the 5020 and talks about the differences.

-Robert

I returned a Samsung Plasma PN50A650 not the LCD model.

On a separate note I can't say enough good things about Robert. I ordered a Pioneer 5020 from Robert last Monday 6/09. I had some special circumstances that I needed the TV by Tuesday 6/17 at the very latest (I had 3 hours of hip surgery today to clean out some spurs on my femur head and I will be on crutches for six weeks). I live near Buffalo, NY and yesterday we had some heavy rain and hail storms. My delivery was scheduled for sometime between 3:30 and 6:00 pm. The TV did not come and I called the delivery place at 6:45 to see if the delivery was still on. The dispatcher returned my call to tell me that his drivers were done for the day due to the bad weather and he would need to schedule an appointment for today. I told him I could not, that it was unacceptable and that he needed to ship the TV back because I could not get it into the house and set it up by myself. I didn't want to hurt my recovery setting it up and I have friends who could help set it up, but if the broke the TV I was SOL.

I called Value Electronics to know that I had to have the TV sent back because of what I previously wrote. They were so disappointed with the delivery place because they knew about my surgery today. To make it right they agreed to have White Glove service come in and bring in the TV next week to bring the TV in and set it up for me. I gave VE the delivery place's number and my order number and I assumed it was all taken care of.

To my surprise at 8 pm yesterday my TV showed up (though the truck had a corrosive chemical sign on it and there were several containers of chemicals in the truck) and my TV was delivered. I do not know if Robert and VE had anything to do with getting the TV delivered yesterday, but if they did I am very grateful for their excellent customer service and making me the customer feel like a VIP.

I love the TV, much better than my Samsung Plasma 650 (though that TV was a good one). I haven't had too much time to watch it and the break in disc is keeping me up as I am stuck on the couch for the next 6 weeks (the beds are upstairs). I have cheated a little bit and Leno and Letterman looked much better and the colors looked great. I can't wait to cheat a little more and watch some DVD's on my oppo 980.

Thanks again VE team and Robert.
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post #205 of 1057 Old 06-19-2008, 01:11 PM
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I am surely looking forward to this chance to see these TVs in a controlled setting, properly set up (especially the Sharp 94SE, Toshiba 550, Samsung 750, Panasonic 850 and any 9G Pioneer). I've said before that my tentative choice is the Pioneer 5020, but I could be dissuaded by another TV with features important to me if the Pioneer lacks them. And it's not so much which set has the best picture per se; it's which picture do I like the best. It comes down to which one allows me to enjoy the program and not focus on the picture. I still think that will likely be the 5020, but we'll see.

I hope we'll see them with OTA HD and SD, fed DVD at 480i and 480p, maybe even a VHS tape; any set that can make a VHS look good is a strong contender in my view. I don't own any tapes, but it'd be a good test.

On another note, hiding the bezels sounds like it would be entertaining, but it won't help me evaluate the sets or pick a favorite. I may be a minority voice on this, but I'd like to know what I'm looking at when I'm looking at it.
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post #206 of 1057 Old 06-19-2008, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

I would like to attend Friday's class.

Should I PM you with the request.

We just opened up 8 more seats for each class by removing some a/v furnature.

-Robert
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post #207 of 1057 Old 06-20-2008, 01:44 AM
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Next thing, Robert will be knocking out a wall to accomodate a few more seats.

Wish I was within driving distance. I'd be there with you guys.

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post #208 of 1057 Old 06-20-2008, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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JimP, ^^ Funny you should say that as I am contemplating moving my office to the basement warehouse to accommodate another 10 seats.

-Robert
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post #209 of 1057 Old 06-20-2008, 09:43 AM
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Anyone from Michigan or northern Illinois, Indiana, or Ohio planning on making a roadtrip to the shootout and buying a new plasma from Robert while in NY?
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post #210 of 1057 Old 06-22-2008, 09:15 PM
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wtfer let me ask you this, did you read the article better yet did you even click on the website?


They didn't need to post any pictures because 1) pictures will NEVER meet real life senerio and 2) they are professional calibrators that are not paid by an x brand of tv.

If you read the article you would of not said what i quoted you on for

I am soo pissed that you said


Quote:


In fact the only pictures of the 81 LED LCD & the Kuro in the same room were from Pioneers shootout.

Because in the article that i provided had NOTHING to do with the kuro shoot out but insted from a few professional calibrators and it was Clearly said that the pros had every angle they tested the 81 and the 8g kuro.... and other various of proper testing on both panels to be fair so my rant is that you are either un aware of this article or biased and like 81 series?

Here is my quote wtfer

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

The problem is they didn't list the calibrations for both sets or show any pictures.
In fact the only pictures of the 81 LED LCD & the Kuro in the same room were from Pioneers shootout. Those pictures specifaclly had the 81 series shot at a off-angle & they might have had the LED option turned off on it as well.

I ask this because a few ISF calibraters posted on the official 81f thread & said they gave it an edge over some Kuros they calibrated.

Robert very well said its too bad that some other people dont understand it

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Sorry to disagree, but Samsung's 81 series does not compare to the 8G or 9G Kuro's in black level, contrast ratio, detail, depth, color accuracy and of course, off angle viewing.

I am including Samsung's LN52A650 or LN52A750 as I hope the successor to the 81 series will have a shot at the golden ring.

-Robert




Warder yes the PDP-5010 would be better then panasonic to begain with but you are probably have a hard time finding it that model, Even if you did find it the new 9g PDP-5020 would be better because msrp wise its cheaper and street price should be the same or slightless. also the new 9g is better PQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warder45 View Post

Forgive my plasma ignorance, but what is the difference between the PDP-5010FD and the PDP-5020FD? Google made them out to be pretty similar. Wouldn't the lesser one of those be a better swap for the Panasonic?

For me I'd just be happy with the LCD's clumped together and the plasma's clumped together. When I was shopping, I never really compared the 2 against each other. I researched each technology learning each ones advantages and disadvantages, then made my pick. Once I had picked a technology I then dove into the PQ and side by side comparisons. But then I might just be odd.


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