Pioneer PDP 5020FD or Panasonic TH-50PZ800U - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 121 Old 09-15-2008, 06:39 PM
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how is the elite relevent to our dicussion?

Oh and im not 6yrs old ~ lol but you should know that to use the display you can use dvi/hdmi or vga and other options that the kuro has as well to see your pc through the kuro as a display

What im trying to tell you is that the panasonic may have other connections or features that the kuro wont but i wont (will NOT) sacrifise the excellent PQ of the kuro just for features or connections.

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Originally Posted by TNG View Post

Dude, not everyone is going to buy a Elite and spend the bucks. Some of us just want to flip the set on and channel surf through a variety of SD and HD channels. The PQ is not there to begin with from many of the stations that I get on my cable setup, so why should I worry?

I do watch the occasional movie off a upscaled DVD, but I don't plan to invest in a BD player anytime soon. I run more Halo on my set on a typical weekend than watching TV. For me having something like this would be great, I am not sacrificing PQ, I don't care that much like you guys do.

I have seen great FPD's before and I can't really afford the ones that I really want anyway. Time for me to let things progress and in 5-6 years I can buy into the next biggest thing.

rlockshin The salesperson was bs'ing you, all kuro are made by pioneer 100% elite and non elite, Next year pioneer will make all the parts except the glass/panel which will be outsourced from panasonic and specs to pioneer,

Also i dont want you to get offended but your calibrator is either full of or not well informed, what he is saying is

Elite or no pioneer, which is not true, the non elite kuro 5020/6020 will beat the panasonic.

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Originally Posted by rlockshin View Post

I just recently sold my 42 inch panasonic and am looking at the 58 800u and also atPioneer Pro 151 FD. Up above people are comparing a 58 panasonic to a 50 Pioneer 5020. First of all the 5020 is not the sdame caliber as the 111 FD.That is the Elite series. The salesman for the Elite said that the 5020 is not all made by Pioneer as is the Elite series.Every one knows that Pioneer is the best but is it worth a few thousand more. I asked my independent ISF calibrator his thoughts. He said that if you are putting Tv in a home theater environment with special lighting then the Pioneer is worth the dollars. If you are just watching tv with no special lighting,go with Panasonic as it is not worth paying extra for the Pioneer. The Elite series is much better than the regular Pioneer. Hope this helps


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post #92 of 121 Old 09-15-2008, 08:22 PM
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Again, Huh?
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post #93 of 121 Old 09-15-2008, 10:33 PM
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in your last comment you mentioned an elite to me why? we are talking about the 5020 and if you want to use your kuro or whatever display, you always have diffrent options from vga/dvi / hdmi pc port etc etc....

and what im trying to say if the panny had better connection options at a lower PQ i wont get it, rather i would get the less connection better PQ TV because i ment to get a tv,

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post #94 of 121 Old 09-16-2008, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 View Post

in your last comment you mentioned an elite to me why? we are talking about the 5020 and if you want to use your kuro or whatever display, you always have diffrent options from vga/dvi / hdmi pc port etc etc....

and what im trying to say if the panny had better connection options at a lower PQ i wont get it, rather i would get the less connection better PQ TV because i ment to get a tv,

So you would choose Better PQ over some of the connection options?

I am not sure I would do the same. As I said, some of the options for using the screen as a monitor for various sources is more attractive to me for allot of reasons.

I mention the Elite because although I have not watched allot of the Elite series, I am assuming that they have better PQ for a price. I am not sure the price is worth it, but if money is not in the way, why not.
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post #95 of 121 Old 09-16-2008, 09:14 AM
 
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So you would choose Better PQ over some of the connection options?

I am not sure I would do the same. As I said, some of the options for using the screen as a monitor for various sources is more attractive to me for allot of reasons.

I mention the Elite because although I have not watched allot of the Elite series, I am assuming that they have better PQ for a price. I am not sure the price is worth it, but if money is not in the way, why not.

Wasn't your original point you thought the Panasonic had ability to show pictures on the panel and doesn't the Home Media Gallery address this for you on the Pioneer? It seems they both offer the ability you're looking for so not sure why you and gus are going back and forth with this argument.
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post #96 of 121 Old 09-16-2008, 11:31 AM
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tng yep i would perfer better PQ over connectivity. also please do know we do have HMG but i was refering to PC use with the display its also possible with diffrent connection options... and i guess the elite comment now makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNG View Post

So you would choose Better PQ over some of the connection options?

I am not sure I would do the same. As I said, some of the options for using the screen as a monitor for various sources is more attractive to me for allot of reasons.

I mention the Elite because although I have not watched allot of the Elite series, I am assuming that they have better PQ for a price. I am not sure the price is worth it, but if money is not in the way, why not.

max yeah the kuro does have HMG but tng sort of dirfted to a diffrent senerio like using the kuro as a pc display which is possible just diffrent connection wise then panasonic. not a deal breaker for me once again i perfer PQ over connectivity.

my rant is PQ is ment for tv, if you want conectivy then thats diffrent.

it ends here ~

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Wasn't your original point you thought the Panasonic had ability to show pictures on the panel and doesn't the Home Media Gallery address this for you on the Pioneer? It seems they both offer the ability you're looking for so not sure why you and gus are going back and forth with this argument.


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post #97 of 121 Old 09-16-2008, 08:00 PM
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Perfectly honest with both of you I really don't have that much time to check all of the connectivity options out with all of the models out there.

As I said before I have a laptop for work, web surfing, docs, spreadsheets, etc... I would rather not start hooking it up the the set. If I do that, then it is a slippery slope to the point where the set becomes just another tool for work. What is worse is that my wife would see it and insist on using her laptop on one of the sets all the time, more problems and headaches for me.

Now the simple act of plugging in a SD, or USB drive, that is great. I travel allot and I have pictures from all over the world from Austrialia to Finland. Some great scenery on digital. It would be wonderful to see it on the big screen.

My comment on the options on the Panny is because that is the one that I have seen that one with my own eyes and got to examine it. The Pio may be even better in the standard or the Elite series, but I have never actually started poking the buttons on one of them.
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post #98 of 121 Old 09-19-2008, 07:44 PM
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let's just say the kuro has a better reputation that you do in this forum, lol.


+1
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post #99 of 121 Old 10-19-2008, 02:02 PM
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I've spent about a month now with each tv. I had the Panasonic 50PZ800U first, and I was not enjoying it. And now I've been watching the
Pioneer 5020, which I spent a bit more on, not painfully much more, got a pretty good deal on it... I am REALLY liking the 5020, day after day.

Now, what I'm gonna say here about the color, everyone will tell me I'm crazy; I absolutely don't care--I know what I see. The Panasonic emphasizes green, and the Pioneer emphasizes yellow. In skin tones, usually on faces that are a little shaded or around the shaded edges, is where you can see the difference. On the Panasonic, I tried and tried to adjust the green back down to normal; could not get it down without making the picture look bad or otherwise wrong, tried every setting I could find on AVS, bought a calibration blu-ray (which by the way you can rent from Netflix, wish I'd known), did what I could... still, too many faces look too green, sometimes ridiculously so. Could not get through a movie without being annoyed by some strangely colored faces. Had a Best Buy guy (complete a-hole) come out and act like I was crazy. Had a Panasonic guy (very decent guy otherwise) come out and tell me it looked fine. Fine, both of them would probably be motivated to say just that, anyway. Went to Best Buy and saw a Panasonic plasma right next to a Pioneer plasma, same source, glancing back and forth from one to the other, and sure enough, the Panasonic shows subtle greens in a lot of the dimmer, maybe more color-ambiguous parts of the image, where the Pioneer does not, although I noticed the Pioneer showed a little more yellow.

I did the exchange anyway, brought the Pioneer home and tried it. First of all, using D-nice's reference settings pretty much took away all of the excess yellow I was seeing. Second of all, the Pioneer's yellow didn't look anywhere near as bad, to my eyes, as the Panasonic's green. Yellow just kind of adds a bit of sunny warmth a lot of the time, whereas green tends to make a person look sickly. But again, the Pioneer reference settings brought those skin tones to absolute perfection--thank you D-nice!

Now, on that color issue, I've said I absolutely know what I see, but I would also tell someone trying to decide between these two sets that maybe, to the same extent that people would try to tell me I'm just seeing things... most people would not notice. It certainly is usually subtle, but I don't understand how something somewhat subtle would be overlooked by people spending thousands of dollars and so much time learning about so many very technical specifications. It sure mattered to me.

Overall, I am really happy with the 5020 over the 800U, even though there are a few areas where the 800U seemed to perform slightly better: with an SD source; and also on some motion things, like a panning camera... on the Pioneer, panning is a bit more troublesome sometimes... motion is a bit more jerky. Not a lot, but maybe just a bit. Also, once so far I saw weird flicker on an HD source, and I've seen in these forums that some other people saw some flicker, but that was only once, and if you use 24p on the Panasonic, you get plenty of flicker, too... And the Panasonic seemed to do just a bit better job with SD sources, but even though I watch a fair amount of SD (how can you not if it's your main tv?), that difference isn't really much. It certainly isn't enough--none of these factors is--to make me prefer the Panasonic.

And the SOUND on the Pioneer blows the Panasonic away. I wasn't counting on that, but now, if I'm just watching tv or my Netflix set top box (which often means tv series), I usually just use the Pioneer built-in speakers instead of my surround sound system. It's sweet.

One last thing on the color... I've had some people tell me I'm crazy on this other aspect of it too, but then when I was in a store and pointed it out to people, they couldn't really deny it... look at the blank screen on the Panasonic plasma, versus on either the Pioneer or on most panels in general... In certain lighting, under the halogens at my local Best Buy or if natural light is hitting the screen... it doesn't look black; it looks green. During actual tv or movie viewing even under those lighting conditions, the dark parts of the image for the most part don't really seem green because of the context, but if you compare that perfectly black border around the panel, to the supposedly black part of the image right next to it, you can see they aren't anywhere near the same color, and it's not like grey versus black; it's like GREEN versus black. Whereas the Pioneer blacks, and its blank screen, are beautiful and deep. So on the Panasonic, if blank = green, how could that not come out in the images you're trying to watch? I believe it does, I don't care what CNET or anyone else says.

To sum up, I love my Pioneer 5020 over the Panasonic 800U, mostly because of the color, which looks way more accurate on the Pioneer. HD on the Pioneer is exactly the experience I was looking for.


Sincerly hope this helps someone trying to choose between these two panels.
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post #100 of 121 Old 11-02-2008, 07:17 AM
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I also saw these side by side in a store, and it caused the Panasonic 50PZ800U to drop off my list, in spite of a significant price advantage. The contrast and black level looked much better on the Pioneer. Also, the motion appeared less grainy on the Pioneer, and the Pioneer includes the best built-in speakers I've heard. I thought there were LCDs in the store with better contrast and black than the Panasonic - Samsung LN52A650 and relatives, which appeared to beat every plasma in sight except Pioneer's. (But I didn't care for Samsung's high reflectivity, jaggy image processing, muffled sound quality, and the cheap-looking plastic around the screen.) The colors seemed fine on both of them to me - some differences, but neither clearly preferable. Reflections in the 5020FD are purple, due to the anti-reflective coating. In a bright room, it adds a purple tint to the black areas. Since it is caused by the reflected light, I don't think it should be a problem in a darkened room, but I have only seen it in the store. I had almost bought a Sony 52W4100 LCD before finding the Pioneer, which is hard to find where I live. My impression now is that Pioneer 5020FD is clearly better, and worth a few hundred dollars extra. I am now very close to a decision to buy one.
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post #101 of 121 Old 12-05-2008, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
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One last thing on the color... I've had some people tell me I'm crazy on this other aspect of it too, but then when I was in a store and pointed it out to people, they couldn't really deny it... look at the blank screen on the Panasonic plasma, versus on either the Pioneer or on most panels in general... In certain lighting, under the halogens at my local Best Buy or if natural light is hitting the screen... it doesn't look black; it looks green. During actual tv or movie viewing even under those lighting conditions, the dark parts of the image for the most part don't really seem green because of the context, but if you compare that perfectly black border around the panel, to the supposedly black part of the image right next to it, you can see they aren't anywhere near the same color, and it's not like grey versus black; it's like GREEN versus black. Whereas the Pioneer blacks, and its blank screen, are beautiful and deep. So on the Panasonic, if blank = green, how could that not come out in the images you're trying to watch? I believe it does, I don't care what CNET or anyone else says.

To sum up, I love my Pioneer 5020 over the Panasonic 800U, mostly because of the color, which looks way more accurate on the Pioneer. HD on the Pioneer is exactly the experience I was looking for.


Sincerly hope this helps someone trying to choose between these two panels.

This is an easy thing to notice when both the 5020 and 800U (50) are powered off. I don't think it's crazy at all. I'm not sure about the green tint to the 800U's glass/screen underneath the glass, but I can see why you say that. The Kuro, when off, looks almost the same shade black as it's very black border. It's very impressive to me, and I think says a lot about the display without even being turned on.

Also, in the giant wall of TVs at BestBuy, the only one that jumped out at me was the 60" Kuro (probably because it was larger and also playing a blu-ray disc). Some of the LCDs jump out because they are undeniably bright, and this really grabs a lot of people's attention, but ultimately, there picture is crap (blown out whites and blacks). Also, THX mode on the 800U doesn't look all that great in the store, so it's hard to judge it though.

I'm pretty sure I am gonna grab a Kuro 5020, even if that price is hard to swallow.
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post #102 of 121 Old 01-01-2009, 05:03 PM
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Just bought a new 5020 this past weekend from an authorized pioneer retailer for just about $2400, it's going to be delivered tomorrow or saturday....I must say that for the money it cant be beat
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post #103 of 121 Old 01-02-2009, 07:12 AM
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Congrats on your new set! Now just sit back and enjoy!

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post #104 of 121 Old 01-03-2009, 12:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sagarpatel1 View Post

Just bought a new 5020 this past weekend from an authorized pioneer retailer for just about $2400, it's going to be delivered tomorrow or saturday....I must say that for the money it cant be beat

That's still pricey for a 50 inch set.
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post #105 of 121 Old 01-03-2009, 02:44 PM
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That's still pricey for a 50 inch set.

says you....hey how much is that 50 inch sed??
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post #106 of 121 Old 01-03-2009, 03:27 PM
 
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says you....hey how much is that 50 inch sed??

50PZ800U 50-inch Viera 1,893.37

Pioneer 5020 2,799.98

These two sets were priced from the same online store.

If you can pick up a 5020 for $2400 I'm sure you can get a PZ800U for $1500.
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post #107 of 121 Old 01-04-2009, 06:31 AM
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50PZ800U 50-inch Viera 1,893.37

Pioneer 5020 2,799.98

These two sets were priced from the same online store.

If you can pick up a 5020 for $2400 I'm sure you can get a PZ800U for $1500.

oh i didnt realize they were sed..my bad...........
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post #108 of 121 Old 01-07-2009, 06:52 PM
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Where can I get that Pioneer for $2400. please?
I am in Eastern Ontario.
Thanks.
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post #109 of 121 Old 01-08-2009, 07:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by capttom1961 View Post

oh i didnt realize they were sed..my bad...........

Also, from that same online store you can get a 58pz800u for less than the 5020.

Now the 5020 might have the slightly better picture do to better blacks, but if you believe the hacs, the pz800u is better performer in most other areas, so if you are willing to give a little on the blacks, the pz800u is by far a better purchase.
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post #110 of 121 Old 01-08-2009, 07:59 AM
 
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Where can I get that Pioneer for $2400. please?
I am in Eastern Ontario.
Thanks.

Don't count on it.
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post #111 of 121 Old 01-08-2009, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maniacmike View Post

Where can I get that Pioneer for $2400. please?
I am in Eastern Ontario.
Thanks.

During Christmas you could get one (And I did) for close to that at FS, BB or Visions in Calgary, AB Canada.
The prices have all shot back up to MSRP now...
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post #112 of 121 Old 01-08-2009, 09:15 AM
 
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In my case, I was about to buy another LCD (big LCD guy). My buddy told me to give Plasma's a chance. So, I started researching them. I know that the Pioneer is the best TV made. No doubt about it But since I was so unsure about how I was going to like Plasma's, I didn't want to put the $$$ down for the Pioneer Elite. If I'm going to by a Pioneer, it has to be the Elite. So, after all the research I did, I decided on the 58" 850U. Side by side and tons of research using Blu Ray movies, different settings, etc, The Panny's colors looked a bit better on the Panny than they did on the non Elite or Samsung that was next to it. Since I was an LCD guy, perhaps the pop on the Panny is what drew me in. Yes, I'm sure the "non Elite" is still a better TV but again, If I'm going to by a Pioneer I want the Elite. The best price for the Elite (best price I've ever seen in my life was a weekend sale for 4550.00 Yes, for the 60") The best price I got the 58 850U was 2700.00. So, In my eyes, even at those prices, the Kuro at the time, did not warrant a 2000.00 difference. My Panny has a jaw dropping picture. I'm blown away by it. It made my 52" XBR5 look horrible. Perhaps next year I will sell it and get the 10G.
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post #113 of 121 Old 01-08-2009, 06:50 PM
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Also, from that same online store you can get a 58pz800u for less than the 5020.

Now the 5020 might have the slightly better picture do to better blacks, but if you believe the hacs, the pz800u is better performer in most other areas, so if you are willing to give a little on the blacks, the pz800u is by far a better purchase.

ive seen plenty of 5020s and plenty of 800us.....i dont see any areas that the 800u is better in......so what does that have to do with the price of sed??gimme a break......
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post #114 of 121 Old 01-09-2009, 03:32 AM
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So, after all the research I did, I decided on the 58" 850U. Side by side and tons of research using Blu Ray movies, different settings, etc, The Panny's colors looked a bit better on the Panny than they did on the non Elite or Samsung that was next to it. The best price I got the 58 850U was 2700.00. So, In my eyes, even at those prices, the Kuro at the time, did not warrant a 2000.00 difference. My Panny has a jaw dropping picture. I'm blown away by it.

Does the Panasonic have PiP like the Pio 5020?

God Bless,
-Clint
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post #115 of 121 Old 01-09-2009, 12:06 PM
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I love my 50PZ800U. Would I trade it for a 5020? Well, I would definitely appreciate the Pio's great black levels and overall better PQ. But I couldn't deal with the fragility of the screen, as I have a 2 year old. And the price would be much higher. My mother-in-law recently bought the same set I have for less than $1800 delivered from Panasonic EPP, sales tax included. Regardless of what the Pio can do, feed the 800U a good signal and it displays a fantastic picture.

As far as the 5010 vs. the 50PZ800U, the 5010 only beats the 800U in a DARK ROOM. As soon as you turn the room lights up or have daylight coming in, the 5010 is too dim. For living room viewing, the 50PZ800U kills the 5010! It's overall much brighter, and it's whites appear white in a moderately lit room, whereas the 5010's whites appear gray in comparison.

For those who have evaluated the 50PZ800U in their home (or even in the store), I really hope you are watching in THX picture mode, because that's the only mode worth a darn on the 800U. Once the set is broken in, move the picture control to +75 or so. Now you will see the best picture the 800U can display without going into the service menu.

We have had zero problems with IR on the 800U, and we watch regularly with black bars on the sides or top, and with bugs and static images on the screen.
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post #116 of 121 Old 01-09-2009, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Does the Panasonic have PiP like the Pio 5020?

Nope
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post #117 of 121 Old 01-09-2009, 01:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by capttom1961 View Post

ive seen plenty of 5020s and plenty of 800us.....i dont see any areas that the 800u is better in......so what does that have to do with the price of sed??gimme a break......

Let me first day that I don't own either set. That's very important to know when giving an opinion.

I said, if you are to believe the HAC's, the 800u, excluding black level, is better in other areas PQ.

Also, please stop flaming me. Why, you won't win. The only thing that will happen is that moderators will close this thread.
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post #118 of 121 Old 01-09-2009, 07:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Also, from that same online store you can get a 58pz800u for less than the 5020.

Now the 5020 might have the slightly better picture do to better blacks, but if you believe the hacs, the pz800u is better performer in most other areas, so if you are willing to give a little on the blacks, the pz800u is by far a better purchase.

Seen them both many times in the store and have played with the controls of each set to adjust to my preference and every time I have come away with the Pioneer having the better over all picture. Both are very good but in my book the Pio is the better one.
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post #119 of 121 Old 01-09-2009, 09:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Let me first day that I don't own either set. That's very important to know when giving an opinion.

I said, if you are to believe the HAC's, the 800u, excluding black level, is better in other areas PQ.

Also, please stop flaming me. Why, you won't win. The only thing that will happen is that moderators will close this thread.

This might be the first time we agree!!
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post #120 of 121 Old 01-10-2009, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by maxdog03 View Post

Seen them both many times in the store and have played with the controls of each set to adjust to my preference and every time I have come away with the Pioneer having the better over all picture. Both are very good but in my book the Pio is the better one.

Yeah, but you have to consider a screen size that's 35% larger than a 50"er. Don't forget the old HT axiom...bigger is better! Anyway, it's a decision to make only the Buyer can decide. Compromises will be made, for sure.
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