My thoughts on LCD vs Plasma, and why I am choosing LCD. - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 12:09 PM
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A member said it best a few days ago in the plasma forum. "if flicker bothers you buy an LCD".

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post15959877

These are just my opinions.
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post #182 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to have to read up on this flicker issue, and head back to the store to see if I can notice it. I don't recall seeing anything out of the ordinary in my viewing experience thus far.
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post #183 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 01:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

A member said it best a few days ago in the plasma forum. "if flicker bothers you buy an LCD".

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post15959877

That same member said flicker bothers him but yet he's having the same basic display delivered today. How can you follow someones advice that doesn't even follow his own? Could it be that it's not the problem that a few of you like to portray it to be?
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post #184 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by maxdog03 View Post

that same member said flicker bothers him but yet he's having the same basic display delivered today. How can you follow someones advice that doesn't even follow his own? Could it be that it's not the problem that a few of you like to portray it to be? :d


lol
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post #185 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heebdawg16 View Post

I'm going to have to read up on this flicker issue, and head back to the store to see if I can notice it. I don't recall seeing anything out of the ordinary in my viewing experience thus far.

We've already told you that this "flicker" is total BS. Kinda like "I can see dead people". Perhaps one in a million actually can see dead people, but lotto odds you ain't one of them. Look, you've absorbed more buying info than 99.9% of the buyers out there. Now it's your turn to do a little homework and pick out the one you think looks best given the knowledge you've gained on AVS. Good luck.
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post #186 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heebdawg16 View Post

I'm going to have to read up on this flicker issue, and head back to the store to see if I can notice it. I don't recall seeing anything out of the ordinary in my viewing experience thus far.

I don't care what you buy.

But if your going to go the plasma route make sure you buy local so if "FLICKER" bothers you, you can return it.

Its a very real issue and why do you think that theres so many people posting about it?

Just look in the plasma forum in the first two pages where flicker is in the title?

These are just my opinions.
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post #187 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 02:42 PM
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Quote:


Its a very real issue and why do you think that theres so many people posting about it?

There's not. There's a small handful of people posting about it and a whole lot of others chiming in and stating that they don't see it. In fact, one guy who's been vocal about it realized that he was talking about something else entirely and corrected himself.

By all means, make sure that it won't be an issue for you. But it's certainly not some wide-spread epidemic.
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post #188 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Get a display technology that doesn't flicker.

After all the plasma ranting, mud slinging and total FUD, I think it's time you announced that you've just bought a Pioneer Kuro 5020. We accept your apology. Now go enjoy your new TV.
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post #189 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 03:11 PM
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lol.
If someone opened a thread titled "I think my kuro smells like fish" these guys would post it as a technology flaw and warn buyers of Kuro Fishes.
talk about reaching for anything.
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post #190 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 05:03 PM
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flicker and phosphor trails? Didn't hear of this stuff prior to buying my Elite, and now that I have heard of it I can I don't see either issue. I'm assuming it's an issue with cheaper plasmas?
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post #191 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amill94 View Post

flicker and phosphor trails? Didn't hear of this stuff prior to buying my Elite, and now that I have heard of it I can I don't see either issue. I'm assuming it's an issue with cheaper plasmas?

You won't see the issues most likely so don't worry about it..
The number of people who notice it is extremely low.

There will be some that will try to get you to "train yourself" to see them by running the IR wash video pattern, while darting your eyes back and forth and moving your head up and down, while flapping your arms like a chicken.

If you have to train yourself or go to strange lengths to see an issue, then it is NOT an issue.

The number of people that see it is so low that plasma manufacturers don't even worry about fixing it. Even though there is a fix for it.

Its nothing like Motion blurr with LCD's that manufacturers are forced to constantly work on correcting (120hz,24ohz 10millionhz, interpolation,etc.).
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post #192 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

You won't see the issues most likely so don't worry about it..
The number of people who notice it is extremely low.

There will be some that will try to get you to "train yourself" to see them by running the IR wash video pattern, while darting your eyes back and forth and moving your head up and down, while flapping your arms like a chicken.

If you have to train yourself or go to strange lengths to see an issue, then it is NOT an issue.

The number of people that see it is so low that plasma manufacturers don't even worry about fixing it. Even though there is a fix for it.

Its nothing like Motion blurr with LCD's that manufacturers are forced to constantly work on correcting (120hz,24ohz 10millionhz, interpolation,etc.).


Your post kind of addresses one of the inherent problems found within these forums, that is created as a result of the quick access to knowledge and help found on here. People WANT to find problems with A/V components. They NEED to justify their decisions, and in doing so, unearth these "issues" that 99.9% of the owners won't ever see or find, but the .1% who go in depth and actively seek to get the maximum utility out of their purchases will find.

Its inherent to the nature of A/V, as it is to any hobby or following that has some form of opinion interjected into the rating of the products. And along those lines, there IS no perfect product, and there never will be a perfect product. No matter how good any new technology is, there will ALWAYS be atleast one setback. Otherwise, if one perfect TV existed, all other TVs would immediately cease production. But even just the element of COST will permanently prevent this from happening. If I were able to create a TV that was 100% lag free, infinite contrast, low power use, insanely good reliability, perfect picture, etc etc etc....I would charge people out the ass for it.


Anyways yeah, I am NOT going to take whatever set I end up buying, and go over it with a fine tooth comb to specifically find issues that it may have. If I notice them during the course of normal viewing and they become enough of a problem to bother me and prevent my enjoyment of the product, THAT is when I will take an issue with them.

Just my two cents.
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post #193 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 07:25 PM
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do what I did .............buy both and compare in the comfort of your home

I haven't seen any of this flicker and my plasma is a cheaper model Panny TH-42PZ85U
it was under 1 grand .The color is deep and the motion is smooth as silk,I especially like how realistic the pic looks and the accuracy of the skin tones

I also have a W series Sony that has a spectacular pic also,the motion blur isn't terrible but it is noticable especially during sports ,it has a pop to the pic and a nice 3D look
I especially like the look and build quality of this tv and the layout of the remote however it does exibit a bit of corner flashlighting(not nearly as much as the 650 Samsungs I returned but still noticable) and I just can't seem to get a perfect skin tone like the Panny.

all in all I would say both sets are excellent and I wouldn't call either junk or flawed,just different
I shopped around and got great deals on both but now one must go
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post #194 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

I agree. Really IR shouldn't be your biggest concern.

Plasma flicker should be.

Plasma flicker is as visible as local dimming.
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post #195 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 07:32 PM
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Errr, your logic is flawed. You can get burn in on an LCD, so to say it's 100% safe is in error. I've seen burn in on an LCD with my own 2 eyes, more than once. The risk to getting burn in on a panny plasma these days is about the same as a CRT....did you worry about it then?
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post #196 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

Plasma flicker is as visible as local dimming.

I haven't seen plasma flicker on either my Pro 151 or my Panasonic 42px75u. I have seen local dimming on led backlit lcds though, pretty easily I might add. So I don't think that point really holds up.
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post #197 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

You won't see the issues most likely so don't worry about it..
The number of people who notice it is extremely low.

There will be some that will try to get you to "train yourself" to see them by running the IR wash video pattern, while darting your eyes back and forth and moving your head up and down, while flapping your arms like a chicken.

If you have to train yourself or go to strange lengths to see an issue, then it is NOT an issue.

The number of people that see it is so low that plasma manufacturers don't even worry about fixing it. Even though there is a fix for it.

Its nothing like Motion blurr with LCD's that manufacturers are forced to constantly work on correcting (120hz,24ohz 10millionhz, interpolation,etc.).

not really

flicker depends on how bright the content is, how close one sits and frame rate.
the "some see it, some don't" argument assumes human variation is everything but of course its not.
there are obvious factors here the least of which is probably human variation

the "some see it some don't" argument is often used to justify lcd purchases blur fyi
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post #198 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 08:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cajieboy View Post

After all the plasma ranting, mud slinging and total FUD, I think it's time you announced that you've just bought a Pioneer Kuro 5020. We accept your apology. Now go enjoy your new TV.

Well, I have it set up. BTW, I never said the Kuro wasn't a fine display.

I don't know about spreading any FUD and mud slinging you speak of.
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post #199 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Well, I have it set up. BTW, I never said the Kuro wasn't a fine display.

I don't know about spreading any FUD and mud slinging you speak of.

As you have chosen the Pioneer Kuro 5020 and have made your choice with your purchase, are you recommended this Plasma TV to the OP??
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post #200 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by borf View Post

not really

flicker depends on how bright the content is, how close one sits and frame rate.
the "some see it, some don't" argument assumes human variation is everything but of course its not.
there are obvious factors here the least of which is probably human variation

the "some see it some don't" argument is often used to justify lcd purchases blur fyi

If "flicker" has been such a problem w/Plasma TV's, why are we just now reading about these "selective" accounts after thousands upon thousands of posts on AVS over the last 6-7 years???

Here's another biggie for ya Borf...Can you link to any PDP professional study, report or review on this mysterious "flicker"???
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post #201 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borf View Post

not really

flicker depends on how bright the content is, how close one sits and frame rate.
the "some see it, some don't" argument assumes human variation is everything but of course its not.
there are obvious factors here the least of which is probably human variation

the "some see it some don't" argument is often used to justify lcd purchases blur fyi


Brightness and frame rate are factors.
Whether or not your looking from your periferal vision or dead on can be another.
Your sensitivity to it is a huge factor and the biggest.

Most people that own plasmas today would not know what the heck you are talking about if you mention flicker.
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post #202 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 09:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cajieboy View Post

As you have chosen the Pioneer Kuro 5020 and have made your choice with your purchase, are you recommended this Plasma TV to the OP??

Not necessarily. For me, I choose to own two display technologies. Its not either or for me. I don't know what he wants.
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post #203 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

Your sensitivity to it is a huge factor and the biggest.

source?
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post #204 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Not necessarily. For me, I choose to own two display technologies. Its not either or for me. I don't know what he wants.

That's pretty lame. Of course you "chose", and of course you made a "buying decision". Or are you saying you went into a big store w/40 or more displays plastered all over the place, flipped a coin, closed your eyes and miraculously pointed to the Pioneer Kuro 5020 and said "I'll take that one!!...yeah, right!...wink, wink, nod, nod, there ya go , there ya go (Monte Python).
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post #205 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 11:51 PM
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Not that I've ever seen either, but at least flicker and phosphor trails seems somewhat scientifically possible.

But how in the he!! can you see rainbows on a plasma, in the same sense that you would see them on a DLP, without a color wheel?
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post #206 of 385 Old 03-03-2009, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Not that I've ever seen either, but at least flicker and phosphor trails seems somewhat scientifically possible.

But how in the he!! can you see rainbows on a plasma, in the same sense that you would see them on a DLP, without a color wheel?

Who sees rainbows?
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post #207 of 385 Old 03-04-2009, 12:02 AM
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As far as here, I think it was Auditor that mentioned the word in a post, but he must not have been specifically talking about plasmas.

I've seen other people mention it in the past in other threads, though. Just wondering what in the world they are actually seeing. Apparently not the exact same phenomenom, but some sort of "rainbow-like" effect.

It wasn't just recently, so I wouldn't even know where to begin to look.
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post #208 of 385 Old 03-04-2009, 12:04 AM
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LOL. Probably just talking about phosphor trails. I sometimes see all three colors separated on high contrast moving objects. Caused by the different colored phospors not refreshing at the same speeds. http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/plasm...2007040133.htm
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post #209 of 385 Old 03-04-2009, 12:06 AM
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Maybe.
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post #210 of 385 Old 03-04-2009, 02:13 AM
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Quote:


If "flicker" has been such a problem w/Plasma TV's, why are we just now reading about these "selective" accounts after thousands upon thousands of posts on AVS over the last 6-7 years???

Its because we all have different experiences. If this was an issue for you, you would be more aware of it. This was by far the biggest issue I had with plasma.

If you do a search in the plasma forum where the word flicker is involved somewhere in a thread, theres 479 threads where "flicker" is involved in a thread. And if you do a search here in the flat panel forum 120 threads.

And if you did a search in the AVS archives for the past 6-7 years I believe it would be huge.

I believe that would be more than "selective".

I'm not telling anyone what to buy, and don't care what others buy I'm sharing my experiences to make others aware of technology differences.

And this is why I really appreciate members like "xrox" that can tell us why we see flicker. Duty cycle differences.

These are just my opinions.
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