The real deal on newer plasma technology... - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 367 Old 05-19-2009, 09:46 AM
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To add to that, the design of virtually all new homes does not take into account needs of a good tv-surround sound setup. I hate these "wide open spaces" as they kill acoustics and provide bad angle viewing.

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post #92 of 367 Old 05-19-2009, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

Could the APL circuits cause the shift?

The higher the APL the whiter the scene and lower APL the darker the scene.
Why would you see the shift with blue sky scenes?

Yes the local dimming LCD's float. http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsu...0090502147.htm

Like we discussed on PM the brightness shift you describe could be either a faulty ABL that engages late or early, or a faulty subfield decoder that engages late or early. It doesn't sound like any type of flicker or floating black issue to me.

AFAIK "floating blacks" manifest themselves as described below:

The black level changes according to the screen average brightness. For instance when watching a 2.35:1 movie the black bars keep changing in luminance depending on how bright the scene of the movie is.

In your case the actual picture brightness is shifting during inappropriate time (half way through a scene) which suggests a faulty dynamic brightness system that is triggering too early or too late.

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post #93 of 367 Old 05-19-2009, 04:29 PM
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Thank you maxdog03 for seeing the viewing angle issue I brought up. Anyhting can be seen from a direct seating area in front of the T.V. The point is I am sure most of us do have company and don't have two rows of seating right in front of a T.V. I know in my house if someone were sitting on the side couch closest to the T.V. they would have a hard time getting a good picture if they even could. I also can watch my T.V. from the kitchen and sometimes do if I am eating by myself of if a game is on while I am cooking. Not possible with LCD. It IS a problem for some but not all for sure. However it should be know as many people do watch games and such from odd places at times and they may want to consider this issue.

P.S. Sorry if high school math isn't scientific enough for the forum. Just figured I would make it plain and simple so anyone could understand.

"Sometimes you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right"
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post #94 of 367 Old 05-19-2009, 10:23 PM
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1. Floating blacks should be called pumping blacks, it when one scene moves to the next and the same area of black is in the same spot as the next scene...but the black level changes. They can happen in either Plasma or LCD.
2. Viewing angle on LCD is dependent on which type of LCD technology is being used. S-IPS being the best and S-PVA being a close 2nd...and TN being the worst. TN is cheaper to manufacturer, and has naturally faster response times. Viewing angle on top brand and model LCD is far less of an issue than is being portrayed. Viewing angle is also one of the easiest things to assess in the showroom.
3. The KURO line is dead with Pioneer leaving the HDTV business.
4. LCDs are still improving.
5. If plasmas were all so perfect as being suggested, they would sell better than they do. Size for Size in the mid-level they are cheaper than LCDs. But they don't sell better. If these obvious and necessary Plasma advantages were so noteworthy to the viewers, why do LCDs now dominant the marketplace? Everyone needs an education on technology or should they just believe their own eyes.
6. In a day room with sunlight coming in through the windows, not directly on the HDTV, LCDs have better black levels than Plasma. In a dark room with the lights dimmed Plasmas have a better black level.
6. The difference between the top of the line Plasma and the Top of the Line LCD technologies is trivial. The biggest factor at the top of the line is cost.
7. The steps to prevent burn in on Plasmas are a hassle, and for a large purchase, a valid reason to keep away from a Plasma. There is no warranty that will cover your burn in. Most people have seen a burned in plasma before, and a negative story gets repeated 50 times verse a positive story get retold 7 times...so the reality of plasma burnin is still an issue. Buying a LCD is valid insurance policy to prevent burnin of major purchase. You feel better having insurance even if you don't yourself get into an accident.
8. Plasma technology requires sub frames to be created by blinking the pixels to create the perception of different colors. For some this creates a noticeable flickering.
9. 6 bit TN LCD technology creates a dithering process to create more colors than the panel can display inherently. This design causes headaches and flickering to some users.
10. Better TVs are being produced with every generation, many opinions based upon prior generations or selective sampling of manufacturers.
11. Matte finishes used on most LCDs do not display reflections like the screens used on most Plasmas.
12. Your mileage may vary.
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post #95 of 367 Old 05-20-2009, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tombaker View Post

5. If plasmas were all so perfect as being suggested, they would sell better than they do. Size for Size in the mid-level they are cheaper than LCDs. But they don't sell better. If these obvious and necessary Plasma advantages were so noteworthy to the viewers, why do LCDs now dominant the marketplace? Everyone needs an education on technology or should they just believe their own eyes.

Believing their own eyes is one of the things makes LCDs outsell plasmas along with the employees at the store and the burn-in(which even if 99.999% non-existent would still be an issue). Average person goes into a store(Best Buy), looks at TVs and thats their research. The plasmas at best buy do not look impressive, some of them with lower light output look downright dull. Picture quality on par with lower end LCDs. Go take those same TVs into average rooms and standard settings and things change.

Add those to the people who will pass up a 700 dollar 42" 720p plasma for a washed out non-name brand LCD because they NEED 1080p.

I don't think I would even consider a plasma if I went by my own eyes at best buy, but I have seen the same models in normal environment. Plasmas do not deal with bright conditions as well as LCDs.


What i'm saying is, people should stop using LCD/Plasma sales as a reason against plasmas.
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post #96 of 367 Old 05-20-2009, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tombaker View Post

1. Floating blacks should be called pumping blacks, it when one scene moves to the next and the same area of black is in the same spot as the next scene...but the black level changes. They can happen in either Plasma or LCD.

Haven't really noticed anything on my LCD at home.

Quote:


2. Viewing angle on LCD is dependent on which type of LCD technology is being used. S-IPS being the best and S-PVA being a close 2nd...and TN being the worst. TN is cheaper to manufacturer, and has naturally faster response times. Viewing angle on top brand and model LCD is far less of an issue than is being portrayed. Viewing angle is also one of the easiest things to assess in the showroom.

Panel type huh? I've never heard this before, but It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. In a showroom, its quite obvious that some panels have worse off-angle viewing than others. Generally, the top brands have very good viewing angle while some others do not. My Samsung at home is quite good. I'm sitting off-angle right now and the picture is just fine.

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3. The KURO line is dead with Pioneer leaving the HDTV business.

100% true. Get them while they're still available!

Quote:


4. LCDs are still improving.

I garuntee you that Plasma manufacturers aren't sitting on their duffs waiting for LCD to wipe them out.

Quote:


5. If plasmas were all so perfect as being suggested, they would sell better than they do. Size for Size in the mid-level they are cheaper than LCDs. But they don't sell better. If these obvious and necessary Plasma advantages were so noteworthy to the viewers, why do LCDs now dominant the marketplace? Everyone needs an education on technology or should they just believe their own eyes.

This is not necesarily true. Must I quote Betamax vs VHS? In that case the "superior" (as in superior picture quality) product lost to an inferior one, if you consider longer recording times to be inferior. Another example is Laser Disc. Vastly superior to VHS, but it couldn't dislodge VHS as the leader in home video sales. It took DVD to do that.

Quote:


6. In a day room with sunlight coming in through the windows, not directly on the HDTV, LCDs have better black levels than Plasma. In a dark room with the lights dimmed Plasmas have a better black level.

I'm not so sure about that.

Quote:


6. The difference between the top of the line Plasma and the Top of the Line LCD technologies is trivial. The biggest factor at the top of the line is cost.

Yeah...top of the line LCD costs a lot more (depending on brand) than a Top of the line Plasma. For straight up picture quality, Plasms is still on top. LCD still has blur issues and the contrast does drop out slightly in angles beyond 30 degrees. Plasma doesn't have those issues, so a top of the line Plasma will look gorgeous regardless of fast motion and from what angle you are viewing it.
I will agree though that in many respects, a top quality LCD can look almost as good as a top quality Plasma. When it comes to the mid-tier sets though, its anyone's guess as the picture quality varies considerably from brand to brand and model to model, so the superiority of either technology is more difficult to pin down at that level.

Quote:


7. The steps to prevent burn in on Plasmas are a hassle, and for a large purchase, a valid reason to keep away from a Plasma. There is no warranty that will cover your burn in. Most people have seen a burned in plasma before, and a negative story gets repeated 50 times verse a positive story get retold 7 times...so the reality of plasma burnin is still an issue. Buying a LCD is valid insurance policy to prevent burnin of major purchase. You feel better having insurance even if you don't yourself get into an accident.

I agree wholeheartedly and is the #2 reason I chose LCD over Plasma.


Quote:


8. Plasma technology requires sub frames to be created by blinking the pixels to create the perception of different colors. For some this creates a noticeable flickering.

I've never seen this on a set on a showroom floor. Nor on my buddy's Plasma.

Quote:


9. 6 bit TN LCD technology creates a dithering process to create more colors than the panel can display inherently. This design causes headaches and flickering to some users.

Considering most panels these days are 8 bit and some of the newer one's are supposed to be 10 bit, it shouldn't be an issue.

Quote:


10. Better TVs are being produced with every generation, many opinions based upon prior generations or selective sampling of manufacturers.

That is spot on around these forums. Plasma camp harping on LCD viewing angle, when on the top brands, the contrast barely drops out in the off angle. Most consumers don't even notice it anymore. LCD camp talking about burn-in (I'm guilty of that!) and phosphor trails when those problems were rampant on early models, but exceedingly rare these days.

One thing that bugs me around here is all the Kuro worship. Fans of this display talk about it like its perfect. When many in tha plasma camp talk about how perfect Plasma technology is, they are really talking about the quality of a Pioneer Kuro and not the technology in general. Other manufacturers aren't producing plasma displays anywhere near the same quality, and Kuro fans are quick to point this out. So when the Kuro line is gone will that mean LCD and Plasma technologies are on a more even playing field now?

Quote:


11. Matte finishes used on most LCDs do not display reflections like the screens used on most Plasmas.

The #1 reason I bought LCD over Plasma. I got direct sunlight shining into my livingroom window. Matte screen was an absoulte must when choosing my TV.

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12. Your mileage may vary.

As in all things.

Stand tall and shake the heavens...
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post #97 of 367 Old 05-20-2009, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tombaker View Post


7. The steps to prevent burn in on Plasmas are a hassle, and for a large purchase, a valid reason to keep away from a Plasma. There is no warranty that will cover your burn in. Most people have seen a burned in plasma before, and a negative story gets repeated 50 times verse a positive story get retold 7 times...so the reality of plasma burnin is still an issue. Buying a LCD is valid insurance policy to prevent burnin of major purchase. You feel better having insurance even if you don't yourself get into an accident.


Best Buy, who is considered by some here to be the enemy, now offers protection against BI/IR with their warranties...

Now, if BI were a huge issue, do you think BB would offer that service? Would negate the profitibility of their service plans don't you think?


11. Matte finishes used on most LCDs do not display reflections like the screens used on most Plasmas.

Unless it's one of the good Samsung models with their "ultra clear panels".

12.Your mileage may vary.

By quite a bit...

Response in bold.
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post #98 of 367 Old 05-20-2009, 12:54 PM
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I appreciate gdog2004's initial post with his actual observations and opinion.

The rest of this thread has degraded into yet another tired Plasma vs LCD debate based on paper theories and opinions being passed off as fact.
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post #99 of 367 Old 05-20-2009, 04:03 PM
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Not sure what steps one is to take in order to avoid burn in on a plasma that is hard to do. I brought mine home, mounted it on the wall, pluggeed in all together, turned on, have enjoyed for a good 1yr and a half with only one issue that I posted about earlier which turns out wasn't even an issue. Problems blown out of proportion and general paranoia caused by them. Salesmen and burn in are the biggest reason aside from comercials on T.V. that plasma isn't the bigest selling display. Even the argument about not having a plasma in a bright room is far from true, and no I do not own a Kuro Elite. The picture on my plasma does not change in the least in bright rooms. Blacks do not get less black, colors do not wash out. However my LCD color washes out and blacks drop off very noticeably in lighted conditions.

"Sometimes you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right"
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post #100 of 367 Old 05-20-2009, 04:05 PM
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I guess I am just curious as to how many people have actually owned both display devices that were designed and produced around the same time, not a plasma form 10 years ago and an LCD within the last year. I mean both purchased and truly viewed with in a year of eachother.

"Sometimes you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right"
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post #101 of 367 Old 05-20-2009, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbare View Post

I guess I am just curious as to how many people have actually owned both display devices that were designed and produced around the same time, not a plasma form 10 years ago and an LCD within the last year. I mean both purchased and truly viewed with in a year of eachother.

I had my LCD's about a year and a half ago. the XBR4 and the Sammy 71F.
At that time, They were the best LCD's on the market. LCD's have gotten a little better since then, but not by large margins. The ability to go blacker while showing a total black screen is one of the improvements since then (local dimming). Which mean very little to me if it can't do it while displaying actual content.
I was coming from a 60 inch SXRD and decided on the 71F.

When my SXRD went kaput, I went on the search for a flat-panel.
And while I liked the way the plasmas looked, I was just too turned off by burn-in paranoia and was told by salesmen it would cost me alot of money with my power bill.
After having the LCD's for a while and going ga-ga over the new motion enhansers, the pop and enhansed look kinda got old.
One day I was reading this forum and saw all the threads and comments on a new plasma called the "Kuro" pdp-5080hd.
Although everything I had heard told me that the new 1080p LCD's were superior to everything, This little 720p Plasma was flat out owning them all in reviews, owner satisfaction, black levels, contrast, moton performance, you name it..
I had to see one.
So I went to best buy and there it was. And my first reaction was "what the??"
I thought it was dull, dim, and was not impressed.
But after reading all the comments, I had to give it a chance at home.
SO I brought it home and liked it more than in the store.
But I started second-guessing myself again because I was so used to something super-bright and "poppy". So I carried the 5080hd back and got my XBR4 back.
When I got the LCD back home I was absolutly in shock.
I started noticing the motion issues everyone was talking about and I missed the contrast more than anything.
The LCD no longer appealed to me.
Afterbeing exposd to a top-notch plasma in my home, I could not watch LCD anymore without wishing it was a 5080.
Who would have thought I would be much more happy with a lower resolution Plasma that cost about half the price of the LCD I had.

But I had gotten so used to a 60 inch screen with my SXRD, that these 50-52 inches weren't cutting it anymore. So I decided to upgrade to a 6010.
Unfortunatly, Amazon sent me two busted ones. At the time I was debating if I wanted to hold out for a 9th gen kuro that was coming out in a month or two. So I took the two busted 6010's as a sign to hold out for a 9th gen kuro.

So then I bought the 6020. Loved that Tv. But I was shocked to see that pioneer in all thier wisdom had decided to strip the non-elites of a large number of settings that my 5080 had. I was pissed (what a stupid move by pioneer).
So I sold my 6020 and got me an Elite Pro-151fd.

this TV will be the last one I get until a substantial leap in PQ comes from whatever tech (even LCD).

Whew, what a long journey. If I had just listen to the guys here at AVS to begin with I would have saved myself alot of money and time.
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post #102 of 367 Old 05-20-2009, 07:04 PM
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^^^^^
That was an interesting/entertaining read. Thank you.
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post #103 of 367 Old 05-20-2009, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

I had my LCD's about a year and a half ago. the XBR4 and the Sammy 71F.
At that time, They were the best LCD's on the market. LCD's have gotten a little better since then, but not by large margins. The ability to go blacker while showing a total black screen is one of the improvements since then (local dimming). Which mean very little to me if it can't do it while displaying actual content.
I was coming from a 60 inch SXRD and decided on the 71F.

When my SXRD went kaput, I went on the search for a flat-panel.
And while I liked the way the plasmas looked, I was just too turned off by burn-in paranoia and was told by salesmen it would cost me alot of money with my power bill.
After having the LCD's for a while and going ga-ga over the new motion enhansers, the pop and enhansed look kinda got old.
One day I was reading this forum and saw all the threads and comments on a new plasma called the "Kuro" pdp-5080hd.
Although everything I had heard told me that the new 1080p LCD's were superior to everything, This little 720p Plasma was flat out owning them all in reviews, owner satisfaction, black levels, contrast, moton performance, you name it..
I had to see one.
So I went to best buy and there it was. And my first reaction was "what the??"
I thought it was dull, dim, and was not impressed.
But after reading all the comments, I had to give it a chance at home.
SO I brought it home and liked it more than in the store.
But I started second-guessing myself again because I was so used to something super-bright and "poppy". So I carried the 5080hd back and got my XBR4 back.
When I got the LCD back home I was absolutly in shock.
I started noticing the motion issues everyone was talking about and I missed the contrast more than anything.
The LCD no longer appealed to me.
Afterbeing exposd to a top-notch plasma in my home, I could not watch LCD anymore without wishing it was a 5080.
Who would have thought I would be much more happy with a lower resolution Plasma that cost about half the price of the LCD I had.

But I had gotten so used to a 60 inch screen with my SXRD, that these 50-52 inches weren't cutting it anymore. So I decided to upgrade to a 6010.
Unfortunatly, Amazon sent me two busted ones. At the time I was debating if I wanted to hold out for a 9th gen kuro that was coming out in a month or two. So I took the two busted 6010's as a sign to hold out for a 9th gen kuro.

So then I bought the 6020. Loved that Tv. But I was shocked to see that pioneer in all thier wisdom had decided to strip the non-elites of a large number of settings that my 5080 had. I was pissed (what a stupid move by pioneer).
So I sold my 6020 and got me an Elite Pro-151fd.

this TV will be the last one I get until a substantial leap in PQ comes from whatever tech (even LCD).

Whew, what a long journey. If I had just listen to the guys here at AVS to begin with I would have saved myself alot of money and time.

Good story Chad and nice to know your history.

In the interrum you might want to look at front projection for movie viewing. I never thought I'd like front projection after buying Kuro and as much as I love my 6020s it just won't suffice for movie viewing anymore. And the funny part if I bought a Pioneer Kuro projector and a 100" screen for less than I paid for my 6020. Just thought I'd throw that out there since I know you like to upgrade.
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post #104 of 367 Old 05-21-2009, 12:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tombaker View Post

1. Floating blacks should be called pumping blacks, it when one scene moves to the next and the same area of black is in the same spot as the next scene...but the black level changes. They can happen in either Plasma or LCD.
2. Viewing angle on LCD is dependent on which type of LCD technology is being used. S-IPS being the best and S-PVA being a close 2nd...and TN being the worst. TN is cheaper to manufacturer, and has naturally faster response times. Viewing angle on top brand and model LCD is far less of an issue than is being portrayed. Viewing angle is also one of the easiest things to assess in the showroom.
3. The KURO line is dead with Pioneer leaving the HDTV business.
4. LCDs are still improving.
5. If plasmas were all so perfect as being suggested, they would sell better than they do. Size for Size in the mid-level they are cheaper than LCDs. But they don't sell better. If these obvious and necessary Plasma advantages were so noteworthy to the viewers, why do LCDs now dominant the marketplace? Everyone needs an education on technology or should they just believe their own eyes.
6. In a day room with sunlight coming in through the windows, not directly on the HDTV, LCDs have better black levels than Plasma. In a dark room with the lights dimmed Plasmas have a better black level.
6. The difference between the top of the line Plasma and the Top of the Line LCD technologies is trivial. The biggest factor at the top of the line is cost.
7. The steps to prevent burn in on Plasmas are a hassle, and for a large purchase, a valid reason to keep away from a Plasma. There is no warranty that will cover your burn in. Most people have seen a burned in plasma before, and a negative story gets repeated 50 times verse a positive story get retold 7 times...so the reality of plasma burnin is still an issue. Buying a LCD is valid insurance policy to prevent burnin of major purchase. You feel better having insurance even if you don't yourself get into an accident.
8. Plasma technology requires sub frames to be created by blinking the pixels to create the perception of different colors. For some this creates a noticeable flickering.
9. 6 bit TN LCD technology creates a dithering process to create more colors than the panel can display inherently. This design causes headaches and flickering to some users.
10. Better TVs are being produced with every generation, many opinions based upon prior generations or selective sampling of manufacturers.
11. Matte finishes used on most LCDs do not display reflections like the screens used on most Plasmas.
12. Your mileage may vary.


You sound like a best buy salesman or someone who has never seen a newer plasma in a home environment. Spend 600 dollars for a 42" panasonic 720P X1 and watch it eat up any 1600.00 LCD you can buy of the same size...you dont even need a KURO to show this...
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post #105 of 367 Old 05-21-2009, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

In your case the actual picture brightness is shifting during inappropriate time (half way through a scene) which suggests a faulty dynamic brightness system that is triggering too early or too late.

If its a faulty ABL then alot of them are doing it.

You've said that the ABL is the number #1 issue plasma has been working on way before Kuro.

If I was looking for a display today I would be cautious. These technologies all have there issues.

If I was to get my information what to buy here, the cheerleading for one technology over another isn't going to guarantee you that your not going to have issues with either tech.

Best return policy is what I'd be researching.

These are just my opinions.
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post #106 of 367 Old 05-21-2009, 06:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Good story Chad and nice to know your history.

In the interrum you might want to look at front projection for movie viewing. I never thought I'd like front projection after buying Kuro and as much as I love my 6020s it just won't suffice for movie viewing anymore. [IMG]http://www.*****************/trafficreport/img/3721/k08t1221bbuq/gdsmile.gif[/IMG] And the funny part if I bought a Pioneer Kuro projector and a 100" screen for less than I paid for my 6020. Just thought I'd throw that out there since I know you like to upgrade.

I'm starting to like a projector too.
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post #107 of 367 Old 05-21-2009, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jonLavs View Post

Are you serious? Please provide a link to some information that defends your statements. LCD is continually getting better and now with the new LED LCD TVs, they are pretty much on par with plasma, but without burn-in or IR, plus the life of LEDs will trump that of plasma and be more energy efficient.

As much as LCD is resistant to burn-in/image retention, so is plasma.

The life of new plasmas is upwards of 26 years (assuming you watch 8 hrs of tv 365 days a year). You'll realistically replace the tv with a new one before you reach that milestone.

Next?

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post #108 of 367 Old 05-21-2009, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diehardz View Post

I'm starting to like a projector too.

Right! Nobody says you can't have both; just put them in different rooms, and use whichever suits the occasion. Each has its strong points.
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post #109 of 367 Old 05-21-2009, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

If its a faulty ABL then alot of them are doing it.

Personally, I've never observed it. But from your experiences it could very well be the case.

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Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

You've said that the ABL is the number #1 issue plasma has been working on way before Kuro.

If I remember correctly, I said that "efficiency" is the number 1 issue way before Kuro. ABL is definitely related to efficiency but that is not what the focus was/is.

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Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

If I was to get my information what to buy here, the cheerleading for one technology over another isn't going to guarantee you that your not going to have issues with either tech.

While often far from objective, I would be more comfortable with the info on this forum than the info from retail salespeople. IMO AVS is by far the best source for comprehensive info on both general display performance (good and bad) and specific models.

Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
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post #110 of 367 Old 05-21-2009, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jonLavs View Post

That's funny that you call me a fanboy when I don't even own an LCD TV and the only TVs I own are a Plasma and a Projection. I am planning on replacing the projection, but it will be with an LCD.

Fine. Replace it with an LCD. But don't do it based on FUD.

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post #111 of 367 Old 05-21-2009, 09:19 AM
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Guys, check out bottom of page 2 on LN52B550 manual.

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/do...sp_nm=LN52B550 52" 1080p LCD HDTV&model_cd=&menu=download

Quote:


Precautions When Displaying a Still Image

A still image may cause permanent damage to the TV screen

Do not display a still image on the LCD panel for more than 2 hours as it can cause screen image retention. This image retention is also known as “screen burn”. To avoid such image retention, reduce the degree of brightness and contrast of the screen when displaying a still image.

Watching the LCD TV in 4:3 format for a long period of time may leave traces of borders displayed on the left, right and center of the screen caused by the difference of light emission on the screen.

Playing a DVD or a game console may cause a similar effect to the screen.

Damages caused by the above effect are not covered by the Warranty.

Displaying still images from Video games and PC for longer than a certain period of time may produce partial after-images.

To prevent this effect, reduce the ‘brightness’ and ‘contrast’ when displaying still images.


Scary huh!?
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post #112 of 367 Old 05-21-2009, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broketoo View Post

Guys, check out bottom of page 2 on LN52B550 manual.

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/do...sp_nm=LN52B550 52" 1080p LCD HDTV&model_cd=&menu=download



Scary huh!?

The only thing I can think of is you can burn the image on the gloss screen.

My sony has no such warning. This is because LCD does not have image retention burn in. Unless you leave the exact same image on for days. If even that.
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post #113 of 367 Old 05-21-2009, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

Unless you leave the exact same image on for days. If even that.

same with a high end plasma.
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post #114 of 367 Old 05-21-2009, 01:02 PM
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post #115 of 367 Old 05-21-2009, 02:11 PM
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To the OP.

Where can I buy A TC-P42S1 for 8 bills(large ones)?

The best price I can find right now is a little over $900 at a local B&M.
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post #116 of 367 Old 05-21-2009, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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it was a sale...no longer. 9 is pretty good deal too.
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post #117 of 367 Old 05-21-2009, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

this TV will be the last one I get until a substantial leap in PQ comes from whatever tech (even LCD).

Whew, what a long journey. If I had just listen to the guys here at AVS to begin with I would have saved myself alot of money and time.

My story is similar in that I had the Samsung 4671 and Pioneer 5080 side-by-side for a couple of weeks. The differences between the two were just mind blowing when it came to black level and motion. The Samsung was pretty good with no dead pixels and a moderate amount of corner flashlights. Unfortunately the Pioneer had the dreaded (at the time) blotches. Since at that time it was unknown if that would spread, get worse, etc... I decided to return that. I opted for a 5010 since my viewing distance was just a couple feet too close, so I could see some pixel level activity on the 5080.

I'm sad to see Pioneer exit because I was planning to get a 60" Elite to replace my Elite 720 rear projection set when it finally breaks down. The RP is still my primary display and it's been carefully cared for and maintained by some of the AVS ISF folk (Eliab / Mr. Bob). The 5010 is essentially my gaming TV, and I've recently added a new Mac Mini with Plex to it, with access to all my DVDs on an HP EX485.

Anyways I'll keep my eyes open for new technology so I know what to buy when the time comes. I casually mentioned grabbing a 60" Elite while they were still available but due to other current financial obligations that didn't go over so well.
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post #118 of 367 Old 05-21-2009, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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that so many people will buy into the burn in/neon green/screen glare/ phosphor trail bulls*** that sales people and other uninformed individuals feed them that they will never get to experience the superior picture a plasma puts out. These are a lot of the same people that pay 80.00 for a 10ft HDMI cable...
I want to thank all of the people on AVS for continuing to beat the plasma drum. I too was on the lcd bandwagon...but once I got the plasma home I knew it was the correct move to get rid of the LCD. If I were judging by the in store feed it would have been tough to choose plasma...many times they just dont look good in store.
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post #119 of 367 Old 05-21-2009, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

While often far from objective, I would be more comfortable with the info on this forum than the info from retail salespeople. IMO AVS is by far the best source for comprehensive info on both general display performance (good and bad) and specific models.

This thread alone should give you questions about what to buy? I agree with your "far from objective" comment.

Bottom line is find the best return policy and go from there. Theres issues galore with TV's. And theres no superior technology.

These are just my opinions.
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post #120 of 367 Old 05-21-2009, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

If its a faulty ABL then alot of them are doing it.

You've said that the ABL is the number #1 issue plasma has been working on way before Kuro.

If I was looking for a display today I would be cautious. These technologies all have there issues.

If I was to get my information what to buy here, the cheerleading for one technology over another isn't going to guarantee you that your not going to have issues with either tech.

Best return policy is what I'd be researching.

Are you considering a TV upgrade? I know those floating blacks must drive you nuts. You almost need to buy somewhat that has a return policy and see if the issue has been resolved on a newer plasma when you get it home.
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