Panasonic G10 for movies and gaming? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 08-11-2009, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys just joined the site! i do have experience in home theater i was a custom installer dealt with pioneers mostly since they are the best plasma. but i dont have that kind of money so im looking into getting a Panasonic G10 ill be doing a lot of gaming with my ps3 on it a little worried about IR and Flashing. I just want to know your thoughts. Iv also been looking at the Sony Xbr7 40" they are both around 1000 bux. I dont really want a Lcd due to i just dont like the picture all that well its not as clear as a plasma not as good blacks. thanks for reading will appreciate your responses.

Kyle
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post #2 of 32 Old 08-11-2009, 03:13 PM
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Sounds like you should stick with your CRT and save some money!
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post #3 of 32 Old 08-11-2009, 04:15 PM
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Pick your poison:

LCD

+ Clearest picture
+ Can be better in rooms with a lot of light. (Some of the more glossy LCD screens can have some off putting reflections of their own, in a bright room, though...)
- Worst blacks (some newer LCDs have greatly improved black levels, but there's still some crushing going on in their attempts...)
- Motion blur (regardless of whether you enable AMP/MotionFlow at 120 or 240hz, it's still there...)
- Higher priced.

Plasma:

+ Good Blacks
+ Better at motion
+ Cheaper
- Not great for rooms with a lot of light.
- Possible image retention
- Possible phosphor trailing
- Not as clear of a picture due to "dithering"

Again, each technology has it's pluses and minuses. There isn't a perfect one yet. You just buy what you can deal with.

I probably missed some pros/cons up there too. But it's merely to illustrate that, either way, you'll probably be dissatisfied in one way or another... LIVE WITH IT! Or as the guy said up there, stick with your CRT... (Those have issues too...)

Current HT setup:

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post #4 of 32 Old 08-11-2009, 05:36 PM
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You should switch for a XBOX 360 if you want better picture & take advantage of a plasma screen.

PS3 games look blurred in 1080P & a plasma will give motion sickness if you play games like Devil May Cry 4 since it use adaptative anti-aliasing(lower resolution by half on the honrizontal line & switch line. Kind of look interlaced without leaving the black line). Motion advantage is spoiled on most cases.

Thus I recommend a LCD that use 1080P to reduce the effect of blurring. Though it still blurred at the end. At least it have bluray capability.

The G10 doesn't have much problem in a light room since the brightness is nearly as good as a LCD.

Like the above mentioned the PS3 is at a disadvantage by using a plasma. The good solution is a LCD with 120hz interpolation capability which will deliver better experience overall giving to your console system capability.
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post #5 of 32 Old 08-11-2009, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
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i also have a xbox360. but like i said it is going to be for movies and gaming i actully have a lcd right now, but it was a cheapy.
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post #6 of 32 Old 08-11-2009, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis108 View Post

i also have a xbox360. but like i said it is going to be for movies and gaming i actully have a lcd right now, but it was a cheapy.

Vizio or Westinghouse? If so, any LCD or plasma over the 1K mark would be much better than what you currently have!

By "flashing" do you mean phosphor lag on plasma? If so, the G10 will exhibit "flashing". Sounds like you already want to purchase a plasma though... so go for it!
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post #7 of 32 Old 08-11-2009, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sodaboy581 View Post

Pick your poison:

LCD

+ Clearest picture
+ Can be better in rooms with a lot of light. (Some of the more glossy LCD screens can have some off putting reflections of their own, in a bright room, though...)
- Worst blacks (some newer LCDs have greatly improved black levels, but there's still some crushing going on in their attempts...)
- Motion blur (regardless of whether you enable AMP/MotionFlow at 120 or 240hz, it's still there...)
- Higher priced.

Plasma:

+ Good Blacks
+ Better at motion
+ Cheaper
- Not great for rooms with a lot of light.
- Possible image retention
- Possible phosphor trailing
- Not as clear of a picture due to "dithering" and "PWM noise"
- ABL - screen dimming when brighter content is displayed

Again, each technology has it's pluses and minuses. There isn't a perfect one yet. You just buy what you can deal with.

I probably missed some pros/cons up there too. But it's merely to illustrate that, either way, you'll probably be dissatisfied in one way or another... LIVE WITH IT! Or as the guy said up there, stick with your CRT... (Those have issues too...)

You missed a couple!

I completely agree with your statement of "buy what you can deal with." However, I've seen some horrible black levels on some plasma TVs and some superb black levels on a few high end LCDs!
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post #8 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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could you guys throw some links of tvs you would recommend in the 1000 to 1500 range size 40"-46"
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post #9 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 06:39 AM
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G10 + PS3 was amazing when I tried it. For gaming, plasma was the right setup. Also, from the floor model i used, there was absolutely 0 IR or phosphor trailing.

Oh and off topic, but I don't know why people think the PS3 has a blurred image at 1080p. My PS3 at that res makes a much sharper picture then my Xbox 360 over component at 1080p.
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post #10 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleh19 View Post

G10 + PS3 was amazing when I tried it. For gaming, plasma was the right setup. Also, from the floor model i used, there was absolutely 0 IR or phosphor trailing.

Oh and off topic, but I don't know why people think the PS3 has a blurred image at 1080p. My PS3 at that res makes a much sharper picture then my Xbox 360 over component at 1080p.

The PS3 does not produce a blurred image at 1080p. It's a top of the line blu-ray player. Movies and games look fantastic. Better than a 360 for many games. Obviously the person posting this either doesn't have one or doesn't know how to set it up properly.
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post #11 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 07:55 AM
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for gaming a lcd will give a sharper ,into the game feeling.
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post #12 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aim120 View Post

for gaming a lcd will give a sharper ,into the game feeling.

... while reducing said sharpness when fast action happens.

Current HT setup:

Samsung UN65F6300 65" LCD HDTV, Polk CS20 Center, 2x Polk Monitor 75T Fronts, 2x Polk TSI300 Backs, Polk PSW110 Subwoofer.

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post #13 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

The PS3 does not produce a blurred image at 1080p. It's a top of the line blu-ray player. Movies and games look fantastic. Better than a 360 for many games. Obviously the person posting this either doesn't have one or doesn't know how to set it up properly.

The PS3 sometimes is reduced to using a blur filter to approximate anti-aliasing in games where the 360 is able to do the real deal.
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post #14 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

The PS3 does not produce a blurred image at 1080p. It's a top of the line blu-ray player. Movies and games look fantastic. Better than a 360 for many games. Obviously the person posting this either doesn't have one or doesn't know how to set it up properly.

Top of the line bluray player????

Biased much? It is no different from the old PS2. There's no option in it & only have play & pause. You should try PowerDVD which feature tremendous ammount of option & picture processing effect.

Games look blurred in 1080P since the PS3 use Bilinear scaling on their 720P games & nearly none of them are 1080P native. On the other side the XBOX 360 feature a scaler that look more like Trilinear, bicubic scaling.

I would also mention about anti-aliasing(Multisample(360) vs Quicunx(PS3)) process that is different on both system. Quicunx=blurred & that's bad not to add up the bilinear scaling that make it worst overall.
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post #15 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright guys we dont need to have a console war i play ps3 way more then my 360 so you dont need to tell me which one i should like better. trying to figure out what tv to get for my blu ray movies and ps3 games.
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post #16 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sodaboy581 View Post

... while reducing said sharpness when fast action happens.

true,but thats is why we have 120hz and 240hz,i know tvs like samsung have introduced high input lag,but sony fairs much better and i play all kinds of action FPS games ,it never distracts or have any effect on the outcome of the game.
besides there are more often static or slowing moving images.
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post #17 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Deap View Post

Top of the line bluray player????

Trilinear, bicubic scaling.

I asked the kid at BB for a gaming system that featured this.

Sure am enjoying the Wii.
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post #18 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis108 View Post

Hi guys just joined the site! i do have experience in home theater i was a custom installer dealt with pioneers mostly since they are the best plasma. but i dont have that kind of money so im looking into getting a Panasonic G10 ill be doing a lot of gaming with my ps3 on it a little worried about IR and Flashing. I just want to know your thoughts. Iv also been looking at the Sony Xbr7 40" they are both around 1000 bux. I dont really want a Lcd due to i just dont like the picture all that well its not as clear as a plasma not as good blacks. thanks for reading will appreciate your responses.

Kyle

Contrary to what you may hear IR is not an issue anymore. Go with the G10.

Kagolu
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post #19 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 02:30 PM
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Phosphor trailing is a much bigger issue than IR for Plasma when it comes to gaming for me.

Sure LCD's blur, but I prefer that to the trailing on Plasmas which give games a weird jerky way of showing motion like when you turn the camera. Other than that I sure do miss the blacks of my 3 year Plasma, blew my SONY LCD out of the water back then.

But since nothing can do 0IRE black right now I know even the best Kuro plasma would bother me on that front. Best thing is using ones eyes to see which flaws one is more likely to live comfortably with.
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post #20 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis108 View Post

Alright guys we dont need to have a console war i play ps3 way more then my 360 so you dont need to tell me which one i should like better. trying to figure out what tv to get for my blu ray movies and ps3 games.

I already have answered. A LCD display.


edit:
kk, I won't lie but the G10 isn't fit for Bluray playback. 48hz look like crap on the G10 & 120hz or 240hz LCD panel will feature better experience. The G10 only feature 3:2 pulldown at 60hz & a 48hz option with flickering.

Bluray look bad & PS3 games will look bad on the G10. Well the V10 on the other hand support 96hz playback.

So here you answer.

I own a G15 & not the G10, but I know that it will not fit your need.
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post #21 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 03:44 PM
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I would not worry to much about Burn In and IR on a plasma while playing games. As long as you take some precautions, you should be fine.

Also if you have not seen flashing on any of the plasma sets that you have watched so far, you are probably OK.
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post #22 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Deap View Post

You should switch for a XBOX 360 if you want better picture & take advantage of a plasma screen.

PS3 games look blurred in 1080P & a plasma will give motion sickness if you play games like Devil May Cry 4 since it use adaptative anti-aliasing(lower resolution by half on the honrizontal line & switch line. Kind of look interlaced without leaving the black line). Motion advantage is spoiled on most cases.

Thus I recommend a LCD that use 1080P to reduce the effect of blurring. Though it still blurred at the end. At least it have bluray capability.

The G10 doesn't have much problem in a light room since the brightness is nearly as good as a LCD.

Like the above mentioned the PS3 is at a disadvantage by using a plasma. The good solution is a LCD with 120hz interpolation capability which will deliver better experience overall giving to your console system capability.

Wow what a load of crap.

There is always someone out there that gives you opinion of a product that they don't even own.
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post #23 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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so what lcd would you recommend that is in my price range for a good experience with playing games and watching blu ray. and i also want to hear from people why the plasma would do better.
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post #24 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis108 View Post

so what lcd would you recommend that is in my price range for a good experience with playing games and watching blu ray. and i also want to hear from people why the plasma would do better.

I bought & own the TC-P46G15, so I would know better than the other.

Devil May Cry 4 gave me motion sickness. The same goes for Blue Dragon in the field. Both games use interpolation & that game Blue Dragon definitely look better on a LCD. The advantage of using the plasma is when you games run at 60 frames per second.

The G10-G15 lag of 50ms in 480i in game mode & 33ms in 1080p either game mode or standard mode.

The G15(G10v2) & G10 do a 3:2 pulldown at 60hz under 24p & you have the 48hz option with extremly noticeable flicker.

Yes it is indeed very dark in a dark room.

Plasma are cool because you see every flaw of the original content & LCD missed it all, but it doesn't totally look better sometime. LCD in the other side due to poor motion can hide certain annoying effect or artifact. Most games run at 29.97fps & movies only goes at 23.98fps(known as 24P).

As mentioned above, since the S1, G10, G15, V10, Z1 support full 1080p of motion resolution, it is blur free of motion & game look more 3d-ish which is cool.

Plasma look bad on static picture due to dithering which is rarely mentioned since most people only own a LCD or most of them only use them for movies. On motion & normal distance viewing you won't noticed along by enjoying the super smooth fast motion with blur free by gaining the viewing on a real panel that does 1:1 pixel ratio at 1080P.

Sony make nice HDTV & samsung have similar panel which is a good alternative. If you like to play in a decent bright room, I highy recommend the ultra gloss screen with anti-glare coating which will prevent the pixel to glare inside the coating which improve the sharpness & static image of a LCD.

Well it may have reflection if you room ain't setup properly, but spec don't say everything.

So what you need is either

120hz or 240hz
glossy anti-glare coating
full 1080P resolution with 0% overscan for 1:1 pixel ratio fidelity


All I know is 2 brands to avoid on my knowledge:
Sharp & Toshiba
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post #25 of 32 Old 08-12-2009, 07:46 PM
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i agree that the dithering is not an issue either. ive looked at multiple g10's in store, and even on the worst picture mode (vivid) dithering was only seen within 5 feet of the screen. these were 50 inch sets as well.

While i personally love the samsung lcd's, i honestly i cant disagree more about the g10 being bad for bluray playback. Even if you keep it on 3:2 pulldown, the movies are going to look great due to the nature of motion handling on plasmas.
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post #26 of 32 Old 08-13-2009, 08:22 AM
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I got motion sickness due to actually seeing what was happening compared to my lcd.

There is no lack of sharpness or detail with plasmas. I have lots of first hand experience with 40" lcd compared to 42" plasma with ps3.

As far as phosphor lag, i have no experienced it yet. I haven't played any of the games that 'bring it out'.

Ps3 looks great, sharp , movies look amazing. Computer games also look great. Haven't played much yet, waiting till I get more time on the TV. Crysis looks insane though.
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post #27 of 32 Old 08-18-2009, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Deap View Post

Top of the line bluray player????

Biased much? It is no different from the old PS2. There's no option in it & only have play & pause. You should try PowerDVD which feature tremendous ammount of option & picture processing effect.

Games look blurred in 1080P since the PS3 use Bilinear scaling on their 720P games & nearly none of them are 1080P native. On the other side the XBOX 360 feature a scaler that look more like Trilinear, bicubic scaling.

I would also mention about anti-aliasing(Multisample(360) vs Quicunx(PS3)) process that is different on both system. Quicunx=blurred & that's bad not to add up the bilinear scaling that make it worst overall.

wow so you tell someone to get an xbox funny, you need to stop being biased yourself. what a hypocrite

Anyways, i would tell the guy to use the native rez. if it is 720p use 720p. Most games including those on 360 are 720p native. the blu ray has been voted one of the best on teh market, and can expand with a simple firmware update.
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post #28 of 32 Old 08-18-2009, 10:48 PM
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wow so you tell someone to get an xbox funny, you need to stop being biased yourself. what a hypocrite

Anyways, i would tell the guy to use the native rez. if it is 720p use 720p. Most games including those on 360 are 720p native. the blu ray has been voted one of the best on teh market, and can expand with a simple firmware update.

Well find the expert here they will tell you the same.

No 720P isn't the best choice even if the signal is 720P.

720P display have overscan with HDMI, also 720P display are actually 768P wich is 1366X768 on most cases.

Not only the the original content is zoomed in, it also lose it pixel advantage. 1:1 1080P panel will display everthing correctly without overscan. That's why the game will appear sharper.

XBOX 360 is the best at the moment & look the best on a HDTV. I have explained on the above why.

For more information about it, go to http://digitalfoundry.org/
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post #29 of 32 Old 08-18-2009, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Deap View Post

Well find the expert here they will tell you the same.

No 720P isn't the best choice even if the signal is 720P.

720P display have overscan with HDMI, also 720P display are actually 768P wich is 1366X768 on most cases.

Not only the the original content is zoomed in, it also lose it pixel advantage. 1:1 1080P panel will display everthing correctly without overscan. That's why the game will appear sharper.

XBOX 360 is the best at the moment & look the best on a HDTV. I have explained on the above why.

For more information about it, go to http://digitalfoundry.org/

Did I mention you are a load of crap? Give out facts please. You're just
spewing crap.

There is always someone out there that gives you opinion of a product that they don't even own.
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post #30 of 32 Old 08-19-2009, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Deap View Post

Top of the line bluray player????

Biased much? It is no different from the old PS2. There's no option in it & only have play & pause. You should try PowerDVD which feature tremendous ammount of option & picture processing effect.

Games look blurred in 1080P since the PS3 use Bilinear scaling on their 720P games & nearly none of them are 1080P native. On the other side the XBOX 360 feature a scaler that look more like Trilinear, bicubic scaling.

I would also mention about anti-aliasing(Multisample(360) vs Quicunx(PS3)) process that is different on both system. Quicunx=blurred & that's bad not to add up the bilinear scaling that make it worst overall.

PC > Consoles. That ends the war right there They are both slow dated machines. PS3 has blu ray and came out of the box with HDMI it is also THE fastest set top player by far and without it blu ray would have never taken off. PowerDVD is slow and buggy and getting lossless audio out of a PC is a chore. As for gaming I'll play those 360 games on my PC with my core i7 at 3.6 ghz and gtx 280 (360 eat your heart out )

Be a fan of displays, not companies or technologies!
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