Samsung UN55B8500 LCD vs. Panasonic TC-P65V10 Plasma - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 35 Old 01-04-2010, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Where I'm coming from:

A Sony 60" 1080i DLP from 2006
And I'm not much of an AV buff

What I use my TV for:

Lots of games (Xbox, PS3)
A few Blu-Ray movies a week
Leaving the TV on when I'm doing other things

What I want to use it for:

All of the above
Computer hookup, media center

After some research I landed on the Samsung UN55B8500 LCD. I liked the Auto Motion Plus effect (the clarity on Pixar movies is awesome) (and I know some people hate it) but I've heard it's almost unusable for games (due to lag and artifacts). The picture quality seemed good as well, especially on the 8500.

I think I have a natural adversion to Plamsa TVs, perhaps because I heard too many horror stories during their early years. However, I've heard good things about the Panasonic TC-P65V10 Plasma and it would be nice not to have to downgrade the size of my TV.

I've seen several Plasma's side by side with the LED LCDs and the LCDs look better, perhaps the Plasma's just need some calibration. Maybe they shine more in a living room setting.

Are there any Plasmas out there have a feature similar to AMP? I was really looking forward to watching Planet Earth with it on.

Does anyone have experience with both sets?

I'm stumped, which is unusual for me.
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post #2 of 35 Old 01-04-2010, 04:23 PM
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First, not sure what you currently have (Sony never made DLPs -- I suspect you have a rear projection 720p LCD -- no fixed displays [DLP, LCD, or plasma] are interlaced, 1080i). The Samsung 8500 is an excellent display, with deep blacks rivaling plasmas. But, it suffers from the major weakness of all LCDs and LEDS, PQ suffers noticeably with side-angle viewing. Also, you will notice the large reduction in size compared with your 60" display. The V10 series plasmas are also excellent. You need to go look at them in stores and see which you prefer. If you don't like plasma PQ, then don't get one. My local BB/Magnolia had a V10 on the wall next to an 8500. IMO, they both looked excellent from straight on, but the 8500 suffered when I moved to the side. Would this be a problem in your viewing room?
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post #3 of 35 Old 01-04-2010, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BillP View Post

First, not sure what you currently have (Sony never made DLPs -- I suspect you have a rear projection 720p LCD -- no fixed displays [DLP, LCD, or plasma] are interlaced, 1080i). The Samsung 8500 is an excellent display, with deep blacks rivaling plasmas. But, it suffers from the major weakness of all LCDs and LEDS, PQ suffers noticeably with side-angle viewing. Also, you will notice the large reduction in size compared with your 60" display. The V10 series plasmas are also excellent. You need to go look at them in stores and see which you prefer. If you don't like plasma PQ, then don't get one. My local BB/Magnolia had a V10 on the wall next to an 8500. IMO, they both looked excellent from straight on, but the 8500 suffered when I moved to the side. Would this be a problem in your viewing room?

It's a KDS-R60XBR1 rear projection LCoS. It displays at 1080p but only accepts 1080i inputs (I don't know if that matters though).

Viewing angle might become an issue, I plan on rearranging my living area.

I think I might need to track down a V10 and look at it again.
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post #4 of 35 Old 01-04-2010, 06:48 PM
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The LCoS were very nice displays.
Both technologies (plasma and LCD) have their pros and cons. LCDs do tend to be brighter and sharper, which some prefer, while others think they look artificial. Similarly, some find plasmas too dull, while others think they are more natural looking. In the end, it's what you prefer.
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post #5 of 35 Old 01-04-2010, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BillP View Post

The LCoS were very nice displays.
Both technologies (plasma and LCD) have their pros and cons. LCDs do tend to be brighter and sharper, which some prefer, while others think they look artificial. Similarly, some find plasmas too dull, while others think they are more natural looking. In the end, it's what you prefer.

What I'm really looking for is something with a Plasma/LED LCD quality picture, 60" or over, with AMP-like processing. I guess I'm outta luck.

I have to pick two out of three. I can get a greater than 60" LCD with motion interpolation without LED and subpar picture quality. Or I can get a less than 60" LCD with motion interpolation with LED and better picture quality. Or I can get a greater than 60" Plasma with better picture quality but no motion interpolation. It's like a weird game of rock-paper-scissors with TVs.

I think picture quality and size win out over motion interpolation in the long run though, so the Panasonic is looking like the right choice.

Are there any external devices that can interpolate a 24 or 30 fps signal to 60 fps signal and produce a similar (but not 120hz) version of the AMP effect?
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post #6 of 35 Old 01-04-2010, 11:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Btw, is there any chance of Plasma's with frame interpolation coming out anytime soon? I even hear Panasonic has some good frame interpolation algorithms.
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post #7 of 35 Old 01-06-2010, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by BowserCub View Post

What I'm really looking for is something with a Plasma/LED LCD quality picture, 60" or over, with AMP-like processing. I guess I'm outta luck.

I have to pick two out of three. I can get a greater than 60" LCD with motion interpolation without LED and subpar picture quality. Or I can get a less than 60" LCD with motion interpolation with LED and better picture quality. Or I can get a greater than 60" Plasma with better picture quality but no motion interpolation. It's like a weird game of rock-paper-scissors with TVs.

I think picture quality and size win out over motion interpolation in the long run though, so the Panasonic is looking like the right choice.

Plasma is the display you want for these requirements. The V10 is a top notch display and if you are comparing the 65" V10 to the 55" 8500, the 10" more of screen size is a major plus. Furthermore, the PQ is second only to the Pioneers on the V10. And you seem stuck on the AMP on the LCD, why? Honestly, what is the point of frame interpolation when there is no screen refresh issues on a plasma? Based on your requirements, get the V10, enjoy the suberb picture and the increase in screen size. The V10 picture will blow your old Sony out of the water.

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post #8 of 35 Old 01-06-2010, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by BowserCub View Post

Btw, is there any chance of Plasma's with frame interpolation coming out anytime soon? I even hear Panasonic has some good frame interpolation algorithms.

No, there is no chance because there is no need. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

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post #9 of 35 Old 01-06-2010, 06:27 AM
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No, there is no chance because there is no need. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

that is one thing i actually like for lcds is the motion processing... not on everything but some things look much better with it on (planet earth comes to mind, as well as CGI)

And actually, the european plasmas from panasonic do have interpolation, it's called Intelligent Frame Creation. Look it up, why they skimp on features in north america is beyond me. Despite whether they need it or not, it would be nice to have the option. More choices is a good thing sometimes.
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post #10 of 35 Old 01-06-2010, 06:32 AM
 
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that is one thing i actually like for lcds is the motion processing... not on everything but some things look much better with it on (planet earth comes to mind, as well as CGI)

And actually, the european plasmas from panasonic do have interpolation, it's called Intelligent Frame Creation. Look it up, why they skimp on features in north america is beyond me. Despite whether they need it or not, it would be nice to have the option. More choices is a good thing sometimes.

Film should look like film and not video. You're doing it wrong...
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post #11 of 35 Old 01-06-2010, 07:21 AM
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Film should look like film and not video. You're doing it wrong...

really? how about i like what i like, and that is why people buy what they buy. Why not have the choice of motion enhancer or none? especially if the company making your product can add the feature for basically nothing but decides not to?

Sure some things don't look all that great with the motion enhancement on, but a lot of people agree that CGI and nature documentarys can benefit, as well as some movies. And even if you don't use it, why not have the option to? It wouldn't hurt plasmas business at all; a lot of customers are captivated by the LCDs processing on the show floor, which is steering them away from plasmas. So you're wrong, Panasonic is doing it wrong.
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post #12 of 35 Old 01-06-2010, 07:36 AM
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It wouldn't hurt plasmas business at all; a lot of customers are captivated by the LCDs processing on the show floor, which is steering them away from plasmas.

Hardly. Maybe some people prefer the artificial look of the motion processing, but I believe that group is in the minority. People are pushed away from plasmas because of the "pop" that LCD achieves in a bright showroom. I admit, the "pop" is tantalizing in a showroom but is completely garbage in a home viewing environment. It also doesn't help that many people still believe that plasmas have significant issues with burn in.

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really? how about i like what i like, and that is why people buy what they buy. Why not have the choice of motion enhancer or none? especially if the company making your product can add the feature for basically nothing but decides not to?

Sure some things don't look all that great with the motion enhancement on, but a lot of people agree that CGI and nature documentarys can benefit, as well as some movies. And even if you don't use it, why not have the option to? It wouldn't hurt plasmas business at all; a lot of customers are captivated by the LCDs processing on the show floor, which is steering them away from plasmas. So you're wrong, Panasonic is doing it wrong.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't care what you like or want. It's not that I don't value your opinion or the opinion of anyone else. I just treat this the same way I treat OAR. It isn't up to you. You view things as intended or not at all. The people who like that look, on a showroom floor or elsewhere, are uninformed fools in my opinion.

I lump the people who like the motion enhancement tech in with the same people who hate the black bars, hate natural film grain, and like the vivid/dynamic picture modes.
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post #14 of 35 Old 01-06-2010, 09:16 AM
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Hardly. Maybe some people prefer the artificial look of the motion processing, but I believe that group is in the minority. People are pushed away from plasmas because of the "pop" that LCD achieves in a bright showroom. I admit, the "pop" is tantalizing in a showroom but is completely garbage in a home viewing environment. It also doesn't help that many people still believe that plasmas have significant issues with burn in.

yep, the brightness also has a lot to do with it. But the initial thoughts on motion enhancement are commonly "wow! look at that!" i have seen it several times while on the showroom floor checking out TVs. Whether you like it or not when you get it home sells TVs. panasonics and plasmas in general (besides pioneers) don't have any enhancement and cost themselves that portion of the customer base. Like i said before, more choices are not a bad thing. If you don't like it, don't use it. At least you have the option.

Also the pop isn't necessarily "garbage". a matte screen LCD is far superior for daytime watching in a bright daytime room. True, a lot of people don't watch stuff in a room full of windows, but my old PZ80u was pretty bad for dark scenes during the day. Samsung glossy screens are worse for sure, but nothing wrong with a sharp, sony, toshiba, etc (even the semi matte is fine for me)

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Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't care what you like or want. It's not that I don't value your opinion or the opinion of anyone else. I just treat this the same way I treat OAR. It isn't up to you. You view things as intended or not at all. The people who like that look, on a showroom floor or elsewhere, are uninformed fools in my opinion.

I lump the people who like the motion enhancement tech in with the same people who hate the black bars, hate natural film grain, and like the vivid/dynamic picture modes.

Wrong. I view things as I see fit, since i have the option and am the guy spending the money. no matter what you or anyone thinks, the customer, stupid or not, has a LOT of choice when it comes to options on TVs (A confusing amount, i admit)

As for motionflow/amp, what about the fact that i use an XBR8 and use the clear setting, which does backlight scanning and very minor interpolation (that i don't even notice) to produce 1080 lines of motion resolution with near pioneer blacks? i certainly don't watch anything on dynamic and i don't use noise reduction for blurays or hd programming(only for standard def crap tv)? i definately don't "stretch" the screen to get rid of the black bars. That's how i watch stuff.

I'm not a plasma hater, but i think more options are a good thing no matter what. I don't see how people can argue with more options if you can disable them? And PANASONIC MAKES THIS OPTION for plasmas. whether you like it or not, they choose to NOT give you a feature they have for your money.
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post #15 of 35 Old 01-06-2010, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I think frame/motion interpolation definitely is a matter of preference and not a matter of right or wrong. I'm involved in animal conservation and therefore watch a lot of nature documentaries, I even know people involved in their making, and the consensus among the people I know is that frame/motion interpolation is a good thing for these types of films. These films aren't about art as much as they're about presence, the feeling of actually being there, and frame/motion interpolation is a step towards this goal for much of their audience. I don't see why people can't enjoy what they enjoy without being heckled, berated, told they're doing it wrong, or told it's a gimmick and that they're essentially fools for buying into it. It's all very childish. If you're serious about being a purist buy a TV with _zero_ picture processing and see how it looks.

So on to my original question, is there any chance of the Panasonic Plasmas or any Plasmas being released this year with frame/motion interpolation? Should I wait, or should I make my choice from what's currently available to me?
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As for motionflow/amp, what about the fact that i use an XBR8 and use the clear setting, which does backlight scanning and very minor interpolation (that i don't even notice) to produce 1080 lines of motion resolution with near pioneer blacks?

Near Pioneer blacks? Nope. Think again.
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post #17 of 35 Old 01-06-2010, 10:59 AM
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So on to my original question, is there any chance of the Panasonic Plasmas or any Plasmas being released this year with frame/motion interpolation? Should I wait, or should I make my choice from what's currently available to me?

I highly doubt that Panasonic would make such a feature available. However, given that CES is here, you should know for sure very soon.

I guess I'm just surprised that you would spend THAT much money on a panel (Samsung LED) that is 10 inches smaller than the Panny V10. I'm of the opinion that bigger is usually better when it comes to televisions. A leading regret of TV consumers is that they didn't go big enough. I'm definitely guilty of that.

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So on to my original question, is there any chance of the Panasonic Plasmas or any Plasmas being released this year with frame/motion interpolation? Should I wait, or should I make my choice from what's currently available to me?

No. Amp/motionflow features are compensating for a flaw. Plasmas do not suffer from this flaw. Hence the reason why that feature is not needed. The Panasonic V10 being mentioned is superior to the LCD being mentioned...hands down.
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post #19 of 35 Old 01-06-2010, 11:52 AM
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Near Pioneer blacks? Nope. Think again.

Hmmm.... haven't seen any reviews? Say what you want about the price (much cheaper now though) but performance? I don't see how you can say the blacks aren't near pioneer....

CNET:

"Performance
The short story is that the Sony KDL-55XBR8 is the best-performing flat-panel LCD we've ever tested, earning the category's first-ever "9" we've awarded for performance. It delivers picture quality that's nearly as good as the Pioneer PDP-111FD, the best flat-panel performer period. "

"Black level: It quickly became apparent that the Sony was a serious challenger to the Pioneer as black-level champion. In dark areas of dimly lit scenes, such as the cave sequence in Chapter 3, it was almost impossible to tell which one came closer to the ideal of absolute black. The Sony displayed an inky depth in dark areas that lent superb punch and realism to the image, and easily outclassed the rest of the non-Pioneer sets in this regard, including the updated Samsung LN46A950.

Compared with the Pioneer, in very dark scenes the letterbox bars--those black areas above and below the image on 2.35:1 films like Iron Man--of the Sony appeared a hair darker, but in lighter scenes the Pioneer's bars were darker. That's because bright areas adjacent to the Sony's bars, such as day lit skies, bright desert ground or the white walls of Stark's house, caused the bars themselves to lighten a bit."


Sound and Vision Mag

"Before I jump into describing the Sony’s performance, let me say that it’s capable of displaying a deep black. And I don’t just mean that its blacks are good for an LCD; they’re as deep as I’ve seen on any TV, period."

Home Theatre Magazine

"If your budget allows, there are only three lines of flat-panel sets you need to consider today: the Pioneer KUROs, the Samsung 950s, and the Sony XBR8s"

Thesnob.blogspot.com

"Watching this TV on-axis, it bests the Samsung A950 in contrast, in color accuracy, in motion processing. It it is a serious rival to the high end plasmas being produced by Pioneer. That's a startling thing to say, I know. The feature package is there—all the bells and whistles."

European Reviews of X4500 (euro xbr8)

Trusted Reviews

"Even during the very darkest of scenes, such as the opening murders in a night-time lay-by at the start of David Fincher's Zodiac (via Sky HD), my eyes detected not a trace of the grey misting over dark areas that characterises almost all flat TVs to some extent. Black looks black, and that's that. Pioneer's KURO plasmas are no longer the only TVs that can achieve this key picture quality feat.

What's even more gobsmacking about the 55X4500's black levels is the fact that they're achieved so effortlessly. In other words, achieving deep blacks doesn't demand anything like the same accompanying reduction in brightness that you have to tolerate with normal LCD TVs when they try to do black, which means that shadow details are free to emerge with total clarity; they don't get lost in any grey or forced black murkiness. As a result, dark scenes are presented with a greater sense of solidity and immersive three-dimensionality than I've seen anywhere aside from - perhaps - Pioneer's latest KURO plasmas. Remarkable stuff.

The 55X4500's ability to combine deep blacks and unfettered bright elements within the same frame means it pretty much achieves the holy grail of flat TV picture performance in this reviewer's humble opinion. "

HDTV.ORG.CO.UK

"For many, the justification for shelling out a not inconsiderable amount of money on the 46X4500 rests on the screen's ability to produce Plasma rivaling black levels. Those of you who are contemplating buying this screen will be pleased to know that on the whole Sony have produced an LCD TV which can be considered a match for any flat panel technology in terms of black level competence. Along with deep rich blacks comes a subtlety of shadow detailing that places the 46X4500 apart from the vast majority of LCD TV's."

Techradar.com

"The amazing colour range is blended with a finesse we'd previously only seen on Pioneer's soon to be defunct Kuro plasma TVs; shadow details abound to give dark scenes a sense of depth, and the sharpness and clarity on show with HD sources is jaw-dropping."

Cnet Asia

"We fired up our Blade 2 DVD next and were greeted with deep blacks and revealing shadow details comparable with our reference Pioneer LX508G plasma"
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+1 whitetrash

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Originally Posted by BowserCub View Post

I think frame/motion interpolation definitely is a matter of preference and not a matter of right or wrong. I'm involved in animal conservation and therefore watch a lot of nature documentaries, I even know people involved in their making, and the consensus among the people I know is that frame/motion interpolation is a good thing for these types of films. These films aren't about art as much as they're about presence, the feeling of actually being there, and frame/motion interpolation is a step towards this goal for much of their audience. I don't see why people can't enjoy what they enjoy without being heckled, berated, told they're doing it wrong, or told it's a gimmick and that they're essentially fools for buying into it. It's all very childish. If you're serious about being a purist buy a TV with _zero_ picture processing and see how it looks.

So on to my original question, is there any chance of the Panasonic Plasmas or any Plasmas being released this year with frame/motion interpolation? Should I wait, or should I make my choice from what's currently available to me?


Thank you. This is all i was saying was what is hurting Panasonic by putting this extra feature that they already give to the rest of the world to North America? extra options are a nice thing to have. why hold it back? if anything, it would only help sell more plasmas, not hurt sales.
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post #22 of 35 Old 01-06-2010, 12:02 PM
 
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Hmmm.... haven't seen any reviews? Say what you want about the price (much cheaper now though) but performance? I don't see how you can say the blacks aren't near pioneer....

CNET:

"Performance
The short story is that the Sony KDL-55XBR8 is the best-performing flat-panel LCD we've ever tested, earning the category's first-ever "9" we've awarded for performance. It delivers picture quality that's nearly as good as the Pioneer PDP-111FD, the best flat-panel performer period. "

"Black level: It quickly became apparent that the Sony was a serious challenger to the Pioneer as black-level champion. In dark areas of dimly lit scenes, such as the cave sequence in Chapter 3, it was almost impossible to tell which one came closer to the ideal of absolute black. The Sony displayed an inky depth in dark areas that lent superb punch and realism to the image, and easily outclassed the rest of the non-Pioneer sets in this regard, including the updated Samsung LN46A950.

Compared with the Pioneer, in very dark scenes the letterbox bars--those black areas above and below the image on 2.35:1 films like Iron Man--of the Sony appeared a hair darker, but in lighter scenes the Pioneer's bars were darker. That's because bright areas adjacent to the Sony's bars, such as day lit skies, bright desert ground or the white walls of Stark's house, caused the bars themselves to lighten a bit."


Sound and Vision Mag

"Before I jump into describing the Sony's performance, let me say that it's capable of displaying a deep black. And I don't just mean that its blacks are good for an LCD; they're as deep as I've seen on any TV, period."

Home Theatre Magazine

"If your budget allows, there are only three lines of flat-panel sets you need to consider today: the Pioneer KUROs, the Samsung 950s, and the Sony XBR8s"

Thesnob.blogspot.com

"Watching this TV on-axis, it bests the Samsung A950 in contrast, in color accuracy, in motion processing. It it is a serious rival to the high end plasmas being produced by Pioneer. That's a startling thing to say, I know. The feature package is thereall the bells and whistles."

European Reviews of X4500 (euro xbr8)

Trusted Reviews

"Even during the very darkest of scenes, such as the opening murders in a night-time lay-by at the start of David Fincher's Zodiac (via Sky HD), my eyes detected not a trace of the grey misting over dark areas that characterises almost all flat TVs to some extent. Black looks black, and that's that. Pioneer's KURO plasmas are no longer the only TVs that can achieve this key picture quality feat.

What's even more gobsmacking about the 55X4500's black levels is the fact that they're achieved so effortlessly. In other words, achieving deep blacks doesn't demand anything like the same accompanying reduction in brightness that you have to tolerate with normal LCD TVs when they try to do black, which means that shadow details are free to emerge with total clarity; they don't get lost in any grey or forced black murkiness. As a result, dark scenes are presented with a greater sense of solidity and immersive three-dimensionality than I've seen anywhere aside from - perhaps - Pioneer's latest KURO plasmas. Remarkable stuff.

The 55X4500's ability to combine deep blacks and unfettered bright elements within the same frame means it pretty much achieves the holy grail of flat TV picture performance in this reviewer's humble opinion. "

HDTV.ORG.CO.UK

"For many, the justification for shelling out a not inconsiderable amount of money on the 46X4500 rests on the screen's ability to produce Plasma rivaling black levels. Those of you who are contemplating buying this screen will be pleased to know that on the whole Sony have produced an LCD TV which can be considered a match for any flat panel technology in terms of black level competence. Along with deep rich blacks comes a subtlety of shadow detailing that places the 46X4500 apart from the vast majority of LCD TV's."

Techradar.com

"The amazing colour range is blended with a finesse we'd previously only seen on Pioneer's soon to be defunct Kuro plasma TVs; shadow details abound to give dark scenes a sense of depth, and the sharpness and clarity on show with HD sources is jaw-dropping."

Cnet Asia

"We fired up our Blade 2 DVD next and were greeted with deep blacks and revealing shadow details comparable with our reference Pioneer LX508G plasma"

...and? Pioneer displays from 2008 are still beating current LCD's. Thank you for proving that. You lose points for using reviews without actual test results. Cnet? Come on...
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post #23 of 35 Old 01-06-2010, 12:09 PM
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...and? Pioneer displays from 2008 are still beating current LCD's. Thank you for proving that. You lose points for using reviews without actual test results. Cnet? Come on...


XBR8 was also from 2008.

8 pro reviews and you still don't accept it?

Sorry for feeding the troll guys
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XBR8 was also from 2008.

8 pro reviews and you still don't accept it?

Sorry for feeding the troll guys

8 reviews without a single measurement taken. The data is out there. Find it. Congratulation on purchasing an overpriced LCD with inferior black levels and motion blur.
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post #25 of 35 Old 01-06-2010, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I highly doubt that Panasonic would make such a feature available. However, given that CES is here, you should know for sure very soon.

I guess I'm just surprised that you would spend THAT much money on a panel (Samsung LED) that is 10 inches smaller than the Panny V10. I'm of the opinion that bigger is usually better when it comes to televisions. A leading regret of TV consumers is that they didn't go big enough. I'm definitely guilty of that.

The size issue is probably the main reason I'll side with the V10 if I buy now.
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post #26 of 35 Old 01-06-2010, 12:26 PM
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I think frame/motion interpolation definitely is a matter of preference and not a matter of right or wrong. I'm involved in animal conservation and therefore watch a lot of nature documentaries, I even know people involved in their making, and the consensus among the people I know is that frame/motion interpolation is a good thing for these types of films. These films aren't about art as much as they're about presence, the feeling of actually being there, and frame/motion interpolation is a step towards this goal for much of their audience. I don't see why people can't enjoy what they enjoy without being heckled, berated, told they're doing it wrong, or told it's a gimmick and that they're essentially fools for buying into it. It's all very childish. If you're serious about being a purist buy a TV with _zero_ picture processing and see how it looks.

So on to my original question, is there any chance of the Panasonic Plasmas or any Plasmas being released this year with frame/motion interpolation? Should I wait, or should I make my choice from what's currently available to me?


The problem is, if you like interpolation, and you want plasma type blacks, you will have to spend a fair bit more for a local dimming LCD unless you can find a good deal.

Whatever you do, just make sure you get what you want. I had gone through a few TVs before i decided on what i have now. I first had a panasonic PZ80u 50" but couldn't stand the dithering. As far as I can tell, they improved it from last year. I am also sensitive to this, most people aren't. I then went to a samsung A650, but found the screen to be too glossy and the flashlighting was upsetting to say the least, and last years Samsung Auto Motion Plus was too wild and had a lot of artifacts, even on low IMO. I mainly decided on the Local Dimming LCD for great blacks, sonys motion is the best, sonys sharpness is awesome, price was much lower than suggested msrp, and i like the semi matte screen for helping keep the glare down. I'm a very happy camper.

Pretty much everyone on these threads have been happy with both the G10/V10 and the b8500s. Just make sure you get the one with the picture/features you prefer.
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post #27 of 35 Old 01-06-2010, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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No. Amp/motionflow features are compensating for a flaw. Plasmas do not suffer from this flaw. Hence the reason why that feature is not needed. The Panasonic V10 being mentioned is superior to the LCD being mentioned...hands down.

When I'm viewing a Plasma and an LCD side by side, and the finches of the galapagos move about far more realistically on the LCD than those on the Plasma, the Plasma is the one that looks flawed.

You can't deny that the average consumer in an electronic store will often be captivated by the smooth motion of an LCD's motion interpolation and walk right past the better picture quality of a Plasma.

If consumers are not noticing your product because of a feature you can implement but decide to omit, that's a flaw. When a sales rep has to tell a consumer that the Plasma "can't do that", that's a flaw.

Granted, motion interpolation was developed to address a flaw, maybe it rubs home theater geeks the wrong way, maybe LCD's still have significant motion blur, maybe it generates ghosting artifacts, but the average customer with money to burn doesn't care about any of these and for the well-informed customer sometimes these drawbacks are worth it for that odd sense that you can reach out and touch something you see on your TV.

It all boils down to a simple fact, when I put in my Blu-Ray of Planet Earth and sit down in front of a brand new Plasma, and I want to turn on motion interpolation but can't, there's a problem. You can lecture me about why I shouldn't like motion interpolation, like a dentist lecturing you about eating too many sweets, but I still want my darn cookie.
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When I'm viewing a Plasma and an LCD side by side, and the finches of the galapagos move about far more realistically on the LCD than those on the Plasma, the Plasma is the one that looks flawed.

You can't deny that the average consumer in an electronic store will often be captivated by the smooth motion of an LCD's motion interpolation and walk right past the better picture quality of a Plasma.

If consumers are not noticing your product because of a feature you can implement but decide to omit, that's a flaw. When a sales rep has to tell a consumer that the Plasma "can't do that", that's a flaw.

Granted, motion interpolation was developed to address a flaw, maybe it rubs home theater geeks the wrong way, maybe LCD's still have significant motion blur, maybe it generates ghosting artifacts, but the average customer with money to burn doesn't care about any of these and for the well-informed customer sometimes these drawbacks are worth it for that odd sense that you can reach out and touch something you see on your TV.

It all boils down to a simple fact, when I put in my Blu-Ray of Planet Earth and sit down in front of a brand new Plasma, and I want to turn on motion interpolation but can't, there's a problem. You can lecture me about why I shouldn't like motion interpolation, like a dentist lecturing you about eating too many sweets, but I still want my darn cookie.

How was Planet Earth filmed? The answer will tell you exactly how it should look. Don't bother getting your display calibrated because accuracy obviously isn't important to you as a viewer. That's fine.
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post #29 of 35 Old 01-06-2010, 01:03 PM
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I honestly do not care how anything was filmed. I'm viewing it on my TV as I see fit. And honestly... this is another debate in it's entirety but I strongly feel we should have progressed to higher frame rate movies a long time ago. I love the technology behind frame interpolation. Here's hoping plasma's integrate this feature. Panasonic already has one of the best frame interpolation routines out there.
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post #30 of 35 Old 01-06-2010, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I honestly do not care how anything was filmed. I'm viewing it on my TV as I see fit. And honestly... this is another debate in it's entirety but I strongly feel we should have progressed to higher frame rate movies a long time ago. I love the technology behind frame interpolation. Here's hoping plasma's integrate this feature. Panasonic already has one of the best frame interpolation routines out there.

Seriously, it's my TV, my Blu-Ray disc, I'll watch it how I want to watch it. It's no better than walking into my home and dictating to me how it should look or what clothes I should wear. "That frame has a stand, it should not be hung on the wall!" "That jacket clearly has a zipper, it's intended to be zipped!"

Native framerates and motion interpolation, like stands and zippers, are an option.

Nowucmenowudont, can you honestly say you've never used any product other than the exact way in which it was intended? Never took three asprin instead of the two as directed? Never put a Q-tip in your ear?
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