Will low cost LED projectors displace LCD and plasmas?? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 194 Old 07-08-2011, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I have an LCD HDTV and my first HDTV was an LCD HDTV.
My current tv is a 40 inch and I was thinking of geting a 60 inch plasma for around 500 to 1000 dollars.

Then I noticed the led projector from Vivitek .....the Qumi.

My plasma and or future purchases of either plasma or lcd hdtv went full stop!!

Then when I was just starting to ask the wifey about maybe getting a qumi for December She drops by and points at an onscreen picture of it and says make it two qumis under the tree on December.

So as far as my situation a led projector has impacted the purchases of led and plasma hdtv.

My question to the forum is do you expect that low cost 720p and 1080p LED projectors will begin to make in roads on the market share of traditional plasma and led HDTV sets??

And since the Qumi and other newer lcd projectors are very portable will this also fuel the drive to adoption by some and lead to lower market shares for traditional plasma and lcd sets??

In the future if adoption of led projectors is high will this lead to plamas and traditional lcd sets being slowly pushed into being niche??

DIY beats store purchased.
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post #2 of 194 Old 07-08-2011, 10:12 AM
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No. Projectors are and will continue to be a niche. Lets face it, its a lot more hassle than just hanging a flat panel.
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post #3 of 194 Old 07-08-2011, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post
No. Projectors are and will continue to be a niche. Lets face it, its a lot more hassle than just hanging a flat panel.
Plus one needs to keep in mind the environment that a projector needs to offer a quality picture. They typically don't like any kind of light as it will wash out the picture. They can make for some awesome set ups under the right conditions but typically it has to be a dedicated home theater environment and in a room that has complete control over any lighting.
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post #4 of 194 Old 07-08-2011, 10:43 AM
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I think 720p TVs and projectors will drop from the market in a year or too since these are built to save costs their downscaling video chips are inexpensive models and when they downscle 1080i TV content or 1080p Blu-ray disk content to 720p the picture appears washed out when they delete half of the content.
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post #5 of 194 Old 07-08-2011, 11:38 AM
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No. 0% chance.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #6 of 194 Old 07-08-2011, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post
No. Projectors are and will continue to be a niche. Lets face it, its a lot more hassle than just hanging a flat panel.
You are right.

I have plenty of trees around the house and mirror plastic sunglare kill film on windows.

Hmmm I kinda see your point for houses with no trees and lots of sunglare.
For me its a lot more hassle getting a wallmount and then wondering if the subwoofers are going to shake it loose from the wall?

The main problem was we went from a 40 inch lcd to a few days of a 120 screen pj then at another friends house a recent 60 plasma looked itty bitty tiny like looking like a small computer monitor?

Plus for me its just select distance ,place ceiling mount, focus.

Or place tripod with pj ,focus ,done since any wall surface anywhere works for an improptu outdoor theater.

I just imagined trying to take a 60 or 70 inch plasma to the park to create an improptu outdoor theater , yes I am being a jerk, sorry.

I do not forsee any 120 lcd or plasma sets so I guess my question?
Needs to be for those that can afford five dollar drapes to darken a room and that want big screen sizes do you think cheap 1080p lcd projectors will begin to cut into plasma sets and lcd sets?????

And when I asked this I did NOT mean plasma sets and lcd sets???? going bye,bye since my question is do you think led projectors will begin to gain market share????

I suck at asking questions in a proper format.............sigh.

DIY beats store purchased.
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post #7 of 194 Old 07-08-2011, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
no. 0% chance.
+1.
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post #8 of 194 Old 07-08-2011, 12:55 PM
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I do understand that the commercial display advertising business wants to use 1366x768 720p displays/PC monitors for Windows OS compatibility . However, the price of 720p(1366x768) TVs appears to be rapidly approaching the price of 1080p 32" and 37 " LCD TVs at retail which is why I think that very few manufacurers if any will offer them in the next few years.
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post #9 of 194 Old 07-08-2011, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

I think 720p TVs and projectors will drop from the market in a year or too since these are built to save costs their downscaling video chips are inexpensive models and when they downscle 1080i TV content or 1080p Blu-ray disk content to 720p the picture appears washed out when they delete half of the content.

Plasma will continue to have 720p as long as the market accept them for low end models, as it is much cheaper to produce them whereas the difference for LCD is incremental.

This is from a marketing and cost perspective as we know difference between 720p and 1080p in CURRENT reality may not be actually discernible under certain conditions as discussed aplenty before.
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post #10 of 194 Old 07-08-2011, 07:24 PM
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Replace? No. Displace? Very likely.

I can see these small LED projectors finding their way into a lot of bedrooms, game rooms..bathrooms even They will be a huge seller in college dorms. Otherwise, I would think of these projectors as displacing a household's second or third TV but not becoming the primary source for video in most homes.
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post #11 of 194 Old 07-08-2011, 09:44 PM
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I can see them finding their way into almost zero bedrooms and game rooms. Projectors are already stupidly cheap. And they are used almost nowhere. Good luck having screens. Good luck with light output.

This stuff has been a solution in search of a problem. Keep looking.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #12 of 194 Old 07-09-2011, 01:18 AM
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Rather ask appleā„¢ about this, ppl here are biased usually, I for one definately hate these rebadged 3DTV's , I even hate their concept (bloated rebadged TV for 3+ grands , huh?), and they even wonder why 3D does bad, well guess what, stop reinventing your 2D TV's with cheap foils and trainwreck PR , 3D needs none of that stuff.
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post #13 of 194 Old 07-09-2011, 01:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I can see them finding their way into almost zero bedrooms and game rooms. Projectors are already stupidly cheap. And they are used almost nowhere. Good luck having screens. Good luck with light output.

This stuff has been a solution in search of a problem. Keep looking.

Screen?? looks at DIY 110" screen made with 19 dollars in materials.........gee I have no idea

Light output?? gee I have no idea but something tells me that 300 to 500 lumens may just work

Game rooms?? gee does a PS3 with a 5.1 receiver along with four 12" subwoofers @7 cfoot each and four bash amps from PE count??

How many of those "stupidly cheap""?? projectors were available in 2010 that did 720p, needed no bulb replacement, were under 500 dollars, did at least 300 to 500 lumens with hdmi output, no problem with screen door effect, were a few ounces in mass, supported h264, xvid, mp4 and were cool to the touch to name a few things.

Just asking since I have no idea what I am doing

But something tells me technology is changeing the way we do things.

IMHO
Mounting a led 720p pj to the bed headboard (a bit above) and a DIY 95" screen to the foot of the bed along with a 5.1 surround for the bedroom sounds

DIY beats store purchased.
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post #14 of 194 Old 07-09-2011, 01:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gain3 View Post

Rather ask apple about this, ppl here are biased usually, I for one definately hate these rebadged 3DTV's , I even hate their concept (bloated rebadged TV for 3+ grands , huh?), and they even wonder why 3D does bad, well guess what, stop reinventing your 2D TV's with cheap foils and trainwreck PR , 3D needs none of that stuff.

Agreed!!

I just wanted a huge screen MOVIE image experience without spending thousands of dollars or replacing bulbs every year or drilling holes in new home walls to mount huge wall mounts for 60"+ plasma displays

Or trying to find an easy way to cart a 60"+ plasma display from the living room to the bedroom or friends house.

It looks like the solution for me is a very mobile display????

But then what do I know???
Nothing!

This is just my own personal situation and does not suggest any trend:
Anecdotal:
Yesterday I was looking at pictures(of the led pj I want) and wondering how to run it by the wife without too much hassle??
Well the wife wanders by and says to get one and I say so its ok to buy one?

The wife says no silly!, one for you and get one for me to use with an ipod( my wife is a school teacher so I guess the school projectors are kinda meh!)

Well for me its back to painting a wall a very smooth gray scale since guess what the wife wants in the living room instead of the hdtv............

Man I hate painting but a happy wife is a happy marriage.

DIY beats store purchased.
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post #15 of 194 Old 07-09-2011, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Burrows View Post

I have an LCD HDTV and my first HDTV was an LCD HDTV.
My current tv is a 40 inch and I was thinking of geting a 60 inch plasma for around 500 to 1000 dollars.

Then I noticed the led projector from Vivitek .....the Qumi.

My plasma and or future purchases of either plasma or lcd hdtv went full stop!!

Then when I was just starting to ask the wifey about maybe getting a qumi for December She drops by and points at an onscreen picture of it and says make it two qumis under the tree on December.

So as far as my situation a led projector has impacted the purchases of led and plasma hdtv.

My question to the forum is do you expect that low cost 720p and 1080p LED projectors will begin to make in roads on the market share of traditional plasma and led HDTV sets??

And since the Qumi and other newer lcd projectors are very portable will this also fuel the drive to adoption by some and lead to lower market shares for traditional plasma and lcd sets??

In the future if adoption of led projectors is high will this lead to plamas and traditional lcd sets being slowly pushed into being niche??

In answer to your question, highly unlikely. One just needs to walk into a AV showroom floor and see what's being displayed. Most stores you wouldn't really know if they were selling any kind of projector or not but you definitely know that they have plasma and LCD sets.
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post #16 of 194 Old 07-09-2011, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by HTguru3 View Post

In answer to your question, highly unlikely. One just needs to walk into a AV showroom floor and see what's being displayed. Most stores you wouldn't really know if they were selling any kind of projector or not but you definitely know that they have plasma and LCD sets.

Now for the first time, due to LED lighting and small form factors, projectors can offer most of the advantages of flat screens but at a much bigger bang for the buck. i.e, larger screen sizes at vastly better portability. That is an advantage people should start to recognize over time and will demand easier access to these types of projectors at the retail level. At that point, retail will respond to that demand.

I do agree that these projectors will never eliminate flat screen technology, but they are now being developed in a form factor that is very compelling, and I think they will sell very well. We have a flat screen in the living room with no plan to replace it, but if I were to put something in my home office today it would be one of these projectors, no doubt about it. Three months ago the decision would have been for a flat screen, but not now. That's how quickly things can change.
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post #17 of 194 Old 07-09-2011, 01:21 PM
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Projectors have been cheap and available fro years. They have so far taken far under 1% of the market. Those of you who believe this is somehow changing soon are more than entitled to that belief. I will let the actual sales tell the story.

Nothing is going to change from here. Just because it theoretically can doesn't mean it has -- or it will. Good luck with your market prognostication.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #18 of 194 Old 07-09-2011, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post
.......Projectors have been cheap and available fro years......
Not like my <$500 LG HS 201.

The kid has a big Panny 4000 something and even he was impressed. The LG doesn't have all the features like the Uber projectors but most of the working/underemployed/unemployed class can afford them.

Take a blank sheet rock wall, add a quart of SW flat white latex with some added titanium and enjoy.

Seems to me there is a lot of "Old Boy" envy over the new technology.

Regards.
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post #19 of 194 Old 07-09-2011, 03:56 PM
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Not like my <$500 LG HS 201.

The kid has a big Panny 4000 something and even he was impressed. The LG doesn't have all the features like the Uber projectors but most of the working/underemployed/unemployed class can afford them.

Take a blank sheet rock wall, add a quart of SW flat white latex with some added titanium and enjoy.

Seems to me there is a lot of "Old Boy" envy over the new technology.

Regards.

No "Old Boy" envy from me but until the numbers say otherwise I think the sales on these newer projectors will still see limited growth. Like Rogo says, time will tell.
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post #20 of 194 Old 07-09-2011, 04:01 PM
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I feel like you people are paid endorsers from an industry that more or less doesn't exist. And won't exist. But seriously, enjoy your toys. I find the notion of "portability" especially funny. Have fun toting around your TV; that sounds like a big lifestyle trend for the decade.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #21 of 194 Old 07-09-2011, 04:03 PM
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All of the rooms in my home have lots of large windows so there is no place I could make use of a projetor.
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post #22 of 194 Old 07-09-2011, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

All of the rooms in my home have lots of large windows so there is no place I could make use of a projetor.

There was an old tv show where the set had no cutains or window blinds.
So you have zip? for window blinds ????????


DIY beats store purchased.
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post #23 of 194 Old 07-09-2011, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I feel like you people are paid endorsers from an industry that more or less doesn't exist. And won't exist. But seriously, enjoy your toys. I find the notion of "portability" especially funny. Have fun toting around your TV; that sounds like a big lifestyle trend for the decade.



Its not a tv.
Its a projector that does h264, xvid, etc.

Its an under 500 720p hdmi solution to ........

A very big display for cheap
A solution to moving a big display capable box without the backbreaking mass of a 70,80 or 95 inch plasma sets

Call me when theres a 95 inch plasma thats one pound mass and that does not kill my back moving it myself

DIY beats store purchased.
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post #24 of 194 Old 07-09-2011, 06:03 PM
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Seriously, I find your hobby worth of praise. I find your belief your hobby is going to catch on charmingly clueless.

There is simply not any chance this is going to become popular.

Recently approval was granted for a plane that is legal to drive on highways. Or a car that can fly. Whichever. It has about as much chance of becoming common as your projector.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #25 of 194 Old 07-09-2011, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Burrows View Post

My question to the forum is do you expect that low cost 720p and 1080p LED projectors will begin to make in roads on the market share of traditional plasma and led HDTV sets??

Will let you know when I get QUMI next week. If it throws a PQ comparable to plasma, then yes; otherwise, no.
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post #26 of 194 Old 07-09-2011, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vtms View Post

Will let you know when I get QUMI next week. If it throws a PQ comparable to plasma, then yes; otherwise, no.

Sounds good.

And if not since this tech. is continuing to improve then I guess its check plasma versus led pj for next year.

I expect this crop of 720p low cost led projectors to begin a tiny sales draw with folks wanting a portable and also with a few folks wanting something for the office.

Just as an avalanche starts with the first snowball so does improving tech sooner or later get a market share.

I remember when cell phone bricks were the thing and folks were saying that smaller form factor cell phones were never going to gain any market share??

Another year and 500 to 1000 lumen 1080p led hdmi low cost projectors will begin drawing more hobbyists.

The real threat to traditional lcd/plasma sets are if two years from now theres 1000 lumen to 5000 lumen led 1080p low cost projectors that can work in living room conditions on a cloudy day or with a few drapes being closed over windows??

Forecasting technology trends is fun.

I know nothing!!

But I can imagine a time three years from now when J6P is in a Worst Buy and asking about a plasma set and a led pj.

" so if a beer bottle goes into this plasmer 3dee set then thats another three thousand dollars??"

"so if a beer bottle hits a wall this pajama thinga jigger is doing an image on then how much to fix the wall?"

Worst Buy: well sir just spacle over the wall dent and this 700 dollar Optoma will continue to work.

I have no idea if a bar owner J6P is going to pick plasma or led pj??

I guess it depends on costs to fix bar brawl damages??

And if low cost led 1080p projectors begin to sell??
No biggie,plasma is not going anywhere in the next three years.
Folks with a plasma or lcd set are not going to trash a new set.



What I really want is a ten thousand lumen low cost led 1080p( someday 2160p) hdmi pj thats behind a wall and that responds to voice commands.

I see led 720p low cost led pj as a tiny first baby step on the way there.

I prefer tv or movie viewing to be from a non intrusive set with out of sight out of mind that comes from small form factor electronics.

The one thing I do know is that technology is evolving.

The second thing I know is if they manage to make more profit on led pj tech then thats what is going to be pushed onto J6P as the must have hotness by Worst Buy trolls out to make a quick buck.

But then what? if anything?? do I know??

DIY beats store purchased.
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post #27 of 194 Old 07-09-2011, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Seriously, I find your hobby worth of praise. I find your belief your hobby is going to catch on charmingly clueless.

There is simply not any chance this is going to become popular.

Recently approval was granted for a plane that is legal to drive on highways. Or a car that can fly. Whichever. It has about as much chance of becoming common as your projector.

Terrafugia: too expensive low bang for buck.
Bad analogy.

Gift option one:
A led pj 720p for a 110" image gift for 499 dollars.

Gift option two:
A plasma that does 1080p with 70 inch screen size for two thousand dollars plus


Somehow in this economy I foresee 499 dollar gifts being much more palatable and easier on the wallet *ouchies*

But hey I only know that J6P goes for the lowball price most times.

Hey lets predict!
I predict that if folks love the Qumi then more sales of the Qumi will follow.

Then I predict that friends,relatives, co-workers will ask about it and more sales will follow.

Then I predict that more folks will wander into Worst Buy asking about it and Worst Buy sales trolls will try and make a buck


I have no idea what I am talking about

But yeah lets check the sales charts six months from now??

DIY beats store purchased.
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post #28 of 194 Old 07-10-2011, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by walford View Post

All of the rooms in my home have lots of large windows so there is no place I could make use of a projetor.

Yep, I know what you mean. the 200 lumen LG HS 201 demands a small cave for good viewing; however, even my Bravia doesn't like bright sunlight. All this video stuff "pales" in the sun.

As mentioned earlier, the kid has this Panny 4000 which is not easy on the eyes after awhile in his cave. There is such a thing as too many lumens for a given viewing space isn't there? Isn't "cinema mode" for reducing the lamp output?

Regards.
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post #29 of 194 Old 07-10-2011, 01:33 PM
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A decent 499 projector that doesn't require bulb changes is an intriguing idea for Home Theater enthusiasts and should sell very well indeed to that tiny minority of the population and even open up the possibility of increasing that demographic.

What it won't do is take the place of a tv set for the average buyer. High lumens is fine but a tv buyer wants to be able to watch the football game at high noon without having to draw the curtains--in the average tv showroom the average buyer wants and buys the brightest possible display.

Spousal acceptance will be nill for the average buyer--what non-enthusiast wants a 100" diagonal blank space on their wall? Sure a drop-down screen solves this, at what additional cost?

Then there's audio--sure, flat panels are no great shakes when it comes to quality audio but the average buyer won't purchase a set without some kind of audio capability.

Another observation--people won't buy a tv set that doesn't have a tuner, even though the vast majority will never use it.

So yes, this is an intriguing product for those already inclined toward front projection and will sell well to those already so inclined that have only been stopped by high prices before this, but it won't take the place of flat panels because it is not and never will be a practical every-day tv set.

Steve S.
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post #30 of 194 Old 07-10-2011, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Burrows View Post

Terrafugia: too expensive low bang for buck.
Bad analogy.

Gift option one:
A led pj 720p for a 110" image gift for 499 dollars.

Gift option two:
A plasma that does 1080p with 70 inch screen size for two thousand dollars plus


Somehow in this economy I foresee 499 dollar gifts being much more palatable and easier on the wallet *ouchies*

Are you familiar with a "straw man" argument? Well, if not, congrats, you are the master of it.

The projector requires a nearly pitch-black room to throw an image that doesn't suck. It requires a screen or a white wall to throw an image that doesn't suck. In the presence of almost any ambient light, it will be so dim and lacking contrast that the word novelty comes to me.

Normal humans have as much interest in replacing their TV with such a thing as they do with replacing their commutes with a flying car. Even in this economy.

Best of luck to you, Don Quixote.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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