LG Official Announces 55" OLED for CES- - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 862 Old 05-28-2012, 11:15 AM
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At about 2:30 on the video it looks like there could be some downward firing speakers on the bottom.
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post #632 of 862 Old 05-28-2012, 04:30 PM
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Lots of info from this interview with 3 LG execs.

http://asia.cnet.com/lg-to-launch-4k...3-62215629.htm

- 4K OLED due in 2013.
- Aiming for 50,000 units this year.
- Price around $10,000.
- Aiming for mainstream as early as 2014 but it depends on OLED's coming down to 1.5x LCD prices.
- They are projecting 50% of 47" and larger screens will be OLED in 2015.

One thing is certainly true, LG is incredibly (insanely?) ambitious with their OLED plans.
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post #633 of 862 Old 05-28-2012, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post

- 4K OLED due in 2013.
- Aiming for mainstream as early as 2014 but it depends on OLED's coming down to 1.5x LCD prices.
- They are projecting 50% of 47" and larger screens will be OLED in 2015.

These 3 statements are indeed insane...
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post #634 of 862 Old 05-28-2012, 05:03 PM
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HDGuru was at the event in Monaco. He posted a side note declaring that LG paid travel expenses for the press event.
http://hdguru.com/hands-on-lgs-55-in...080/#more-8080

He posted his report in two parts. In part two he posts more technical details and pictures. I will not post from his comments, since it would not be fair to deprive him of clicks on his site, since he has put in a lot of work on his report; so use the link to read his entire report. He does answer the question about built in speakers.
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post #635 of 862 Old 05-28-2012, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post

Lots of info from this interview with 3 LG execs.

http://asia.cnet.com/lg-to-launch-4k...3-62215629.htm

- 4K OLED due in 2013.
- Aiming for 50,000 units this year.
- Price around $10,000.
- Aiming for mainstream as early as 2014 but it depends on OLED's coming down to 1.5x LCD prices.
- They are projecting 50% of 47" and larger screens will be OLED in 2015.

One thing is certainly true, LG is incredibly (insanely?) ambitious with their OLED plans.

Insanely, yes. But that's a good thing, I think.

I'm glad they want 4K in 2013. Even if they miss out by a year, they understand it's necessary and I fully expect it by 2013-14.

The biggest thing I find unbelievable is the 2015 timeline for half the market of >47". That's really aggressive timing given the already existing economics of LCD, let alone the economics of 2015 LCD making with the very same IGZO backplanes they are counting on.

But, hey, think big, be big. Think small, be small.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #636 of 862 Old 05-28-2012, 06:16 PM
 
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From a low of $5K to a high of $10k now, egads.
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post #637 of 862 Old 05-28-2012, 07:45 PM
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This looks like Panasonic trying to hedge it's bets.

If people go gaga over spending $11k on a 55inch oled, panasonic would see a market for a $5-$7k 55inch ultra black limited production plasma to compete.

And they really will have to do it, otherwise they won't be a top line TV producer anymore. And they certainly don't want to become Sony.

Personally, I see all these $11k prices as smoke and mirrors. Samsung played that game with this years Plasma and LCD priceing. What they sell for now is nothing like the "rumors" that where floating around before the panels shipped.

Unless Panasonic can keep these new displays below $5k, I don't see them being able to lower prices as fast as LG and Samsung OLED will be able to.

Releasing a competative plasma in 2013 with the possibility of OLED price matching doesn't sound like a good short term investment to me.

No doubt the Japanese display sellers are very worried about being thrown out of the biz by Korea. Just like the Japanese did to the US TV makers in the 70s.

I believe Panasonic's short term plan will be lower prices and bigger screens.

A 75inch VT50 at say $5500 sure sounds sweet compared to a $10k 55inch oled. Although that hasn't really worked for Sharp and it's mega huge LCD displays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maygit View Post

Will be, but I wonder how long and at what price? It sounds like Panasonic is in development to really advance PDP tech in the next couple years. Which makes sense because Samsung and (i believe) Panasonic have stated that they plan to make PDPs through 2020.

I have a feeling Panasonic is reviving "Project Kuro" or something along those lines. Over at the other forum, BillP made note of how much PDP has changed since he saw his first one in 2000 compared to the VT50 now, they look like two completely different technologies. The insider then replied "In the next 2-3 years you may be saying the same thing about the vt50 when this next gen pdp tech comes out". D-Nice further added to the excitement "Ahhh so you guys have been making progress on the prototype. I'm ready to upgrade".

If this is what happens, PDP will be able to compete against OLED for some time.


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post #638 of 862 Old 05-28-2012, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

^^ If you feel the need to analyse my English, Top 3 means OLED TV MIGHT win the shootout (1st, 2nd & 3rd are considered top 3), but evidence seems to suggest otherwise. Is there a probability? Yes (since the most important visual perception-black level and contrast would win) but small. And posters here inferring from OLED monitors hadn't been following the OLED thread past 12 months. TV size display and monitors are not the same thing.

Neither is LG's EL9500 using same RGBW tech.

PQ is not PQ when people talk about "vibrant" colors. VE Shootout don't look at "vibrant" colors. And they do so in darkness, which is what LCD advocates often cry foul on. And people with expensive Elite say cyan is not an issue. Which review you talking about when you say "most people buying such expensive sets will read reviews"? Obviously the platform is different for different people.

I have a 2 year old bet that a 31" OLED will be $5k this Christmas, when people back then think OLED is too expensive to be commercialised. This bet would be hard to conclude unless we intrapolate the price. I have a 3 months old bet against people that say OLED TV is vapourware this year. I think I'll skip a bet with a 6 year old 16 posts forumer... no offence... high counterparty risk since I am very willing to pay up if I lose

I have no need to analyse your English, beside English is not my first language, but based on what you did post here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=579 and here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=581 I'm sure you did not mean any of the OLED TV is going to place 1at or 2nd in the coming fall VE Shootout.

I only did mentioned people read reviews since you started to talk about J6P nothing to do with the subject, beside it's ONLY about VE Shootout so there can't be any misunderstanding, everything else is off subject.

I realy don't care about your other bets, but to question my integrity to pay small bet (i had on mind something like $10 US) based on my number of post is pretty insulting.

The sugested bet was ONLY to end this discussion, had nothing to do with gambling and since i'm about 6 years on this forum I sure would not run away if I lost. Anyway all the bets are off, I'm now questioning your integrity based on yours twisted replies.

Neither you or me can be 100% sure who is going to win the VE Shootout. I believe OLED will win based on everything I did read about OLED the last few years and based on mostly positive preview from people who actually did see the pre production OLED TVs unlike some people on this forum who never did see it but know better.

For example from this review http://asia.cnet.com/product/lg-55em...d-45834945.htm
Quote:
Conclusion
In many ways, the 55EM9600 is the "spiritual successor" to the lengendary Pioneer Kuro. Until we have a chance to check out the Samsung OLED panel, this LG easily sets the new benchmark in terms TV picture quality and slim design. However, a drawback of this 55-incher is its estimated US$10,000 price, making it appealing only to discerning movie buffs and fashionistas with deep pockets.

And yes I know the slim design has nothing to do with the shootout same as the price doesn't.

My last reply on this subject to you.
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post #639 of 862 Old 05-29-2012, 01:37 AM
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Since English is not your first language you should probably understand my intent rather than try to analyse the phrasing.

If I said" OLED MAY win the shootout but I'm happy with top 3" does it sound better to you? I am certainly not disappointed if OLED indeed win since I am OLED supporter. But rational supporter.

As to the different platform or "misunderstanding", you just need to read the actual shootout thread to understand why I say people have different perception of PQ if they don't adhere to standards. Here is a classical personification of the problem I mentioned, even when VE shootout standard is so obvious to anyone who actually take time to understand it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post

Yes, The Kuro is the greatest display of all time and ever will be. So invite the friends over, turn the lights up, pop in the 3-D Avatar blu-ray and soak in 70" of visual goodnes... oh, wait.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post22072149

As to the "insult", again you miss the gist of my intent. I have no problem with people with little posts as long as they make sense. But to bet with a guy who's been around for 6 years but only 16 posts is insane. Would YOU do it?? I mean seriously, how can one even be sure to be able to find the guy via PM. It's not about "insult", it's about using one's brain to be "rational"

I'm not keen on arguing with you as obviously we are speaking different wavelength. I'm sure most of the forumers would know what I'm saying about Top 3 and why I said what I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Spent an hour searching for this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post17720611

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferro View Post

It's interesting information though. So they had a 15" RGB panel and a 15" RGBW panel in 2009, and the 15EL9500 from 2010 is apparently based on the RGB panel according to that text. I took for granted from this information that the 15EL9500 must be RGBW.

I actually think forumers should read the link carefully (since it is from the horse's mouth) as it clearly demonstrates the difference between RGBW and RGB when LG was developing both.

Obviously LG is going to say the former is better nowadays.
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post #640 of 862 Old 05-29-2012, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maygit View Post

Will be, but I wonder how long and at what price? It sounds like Panasonic is in development to really advance PDP tech in the next couple years. Which makes sense because Samsung and (i believe) Panasonic have stated that they plan to make PDPs through 2020.

I have a feeling Panasonic is reviving "Project Kuro" or something along those lines. Over at the other forum, BillP made note of how much PDP has changed since he saw his first one in 2000 compared to the VT50 now, they look like two completely different technologies. The insider then replied "In the next 2-3 years you may be saying the same thing about the vt50 when this next gen pdp tech comes out". D-Nice further added to the excitement "Ahhh so you guys have been making progress on the prototype. I'm ready to upgrade".

If this is what happens, PDP will be able to compete against OLED for some time.

Plasma displays do have one big advantage that might keep them around for perhaps a little while longer, they are cheep compared to the alternatives. However I don't see the logic in Panasonic holding onto an obsolete technology until 2020 that's way to long. OLED is the future and the technology is superior no one can dispute that fact, and I'd personally rather see Panasonic revive the KURO line in the OLED format (Not Plasma). I think LG has the right idea and I wouldn't be surprised if they end up making the best display out very soon, that is until other companies jump into the OLED market as well. Fortunately for Samsung they are also going OLED as well and they could end up being on the top with LG, Terrible thought I know but OLED is the future and at least Samsung has brains enough to know it.

 

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post #641 of 862 Old 05-29-2012, 09:44 AM
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$10,000.00US
Where's that guy that's been posting for five yrs: don't buy LCD or Plasma and too wait for OLED cause its coming BIG & affordable*... soon?!?!

* wonder if he ever posted "reliable"???

"I wonder if any of the releases had slipcovers though."
"Are these comfirmed to have slipcovers?"
"They look nice in those slips."
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post #642 of 862 Old 05-29-2012, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

Plasma displays do have one big advantage that might keep them around for perhaps a little while longer, they are cheep compared to the alternatives. However I don't see the logic in Panasonic holding onto an obsolete technology until 2020 that's way to long. OLED is the future and the technology is superior no one can dispute that fact, and I'd personally rather see Panasonic revive the KURO line in the OLED format (Not Plasma). I think LG has the right idea and I wouldn't be surprised if they end up making the best display out very soon, that is until other companies jump into the OLED market as well. Fortunately for Samsung they are also going OLED as well and they could end up being on the top with LG, Terrible thought I know but OLED is the future and at least Samsung has brains enough to know it.

How many 10G's 55" displays do the brains at Samsung think their going too sell?

I know, I remember the days of the 20G 40" Plasma.
Butt, times have changed & even 5G's next yr is just too much for a 55".
What's an 80"er going too cost in 3yrs, 10G's?!?!
That's the size the HT market is going today.

"I wonder if any of the releases had slipcovers though."
"Are these comfirmed to have slipcovers?"
"They look nice in those slips."
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post #643 of 862 Old 05-29-2012, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG ED View Post

How many 10G's 55" displays do the brains at Samsung think their going too sell?

I know, I remember the days of the 20G 40" Plasma.
Butt, times have changed & even 5G's next yr is just too much for a 55".
What's an 80"er going too cost in 3yrs, 10G's?!?!
That's the size the HT market is going today.

It's going to take time, OLED will not be for everyone due to the high cost initially but it will happen eventually, also I think before 2020. Panasonic is banking on Plasma technology for now but they will eventually have to go OLED or go out of business making displays. I think it would have been a good idea for Panasonic to be part of the OLED Pioneer technology however, but as it stands now all they can do down the road is jump in at one point and try to compete with companies that will now allready have a several years head start on them. Of course they could buy the technology like they did before with Pioneer and jump in then, but I think it would have looked better for ther image to be a Pioneer themselves instead of the other way around.

 

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post #644 of 862 Old 05-29-2012, 12:38 PM
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love lgs ambitious timeline but a reality check here. a few months ago they were talking about a european release in may/june of this year and u.s. pricing of 8k. now they're talking about a release sometime later in 2012 maybe end of the year and now the price is 10k +. nothing wrong with that when you're bringing such an exceptional new tech to the consumer market, but need to temper these misses when considering promises of 4k next year and pricing 1.5 X lcds in 2 years, let alone their market share projections.

i'm all for oled asap but don't let the hype crowd out the likely reality.

also spec, i've learned on avs never to engage in an extended discussion with anyone with just 17 posts.

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post #645 of 862 Old 05-29-2012, 01:27 PM
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oh nevermind, i found my answer.
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post #646 of 862 Old 05-29-2012, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

love lgs ambitious timeline but a reality check here. a few months ago they were talking about a european release in may/june of this year and u.s. pricing of 8k. now they're talking about a release sometime later in 2012 maybe end of the year and now the price is 10k +. nothing wrong with that when you're bringing such an exceptional new tech to the consumer market, but need to temper these misses when considering promises of 4k next year and pricing 1.5 X lcds in 2 years, let alone their market share projections.

i'm all for oled asap but don't let the hype crowd out the likely reality.

also spec, i've learned on avs never to engage in an extended discussion with anyone with just 17 posts.

The biggest question from that video, is LG still only get 50% yields from their 55" OLED line. If that is truly the case, OLED is going to have a long road to price decreases and replacing LED. Also, doubt they will be able to go 4K as fast or affordable as LED, so what does this do to their timeline and price. OLED is clearly the superior tech, but if it can not be mass produce at an affordable price, may remain a high end niche product.
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post #647 of 862 Old 05-29-2012, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post

The biggest question from that video, is LG still only get 50% yields from their 55" OLED line. If that is truly the case, OLED is going to have a long road to price decreases and replacing LED. Also, doubt they will be able to go 4K as fast or affordable as LED, so what does this do to their timeline and price. OLED is clearly the superior tech, but if it can not be mass produce at an affordable price, may remain a high end niche product.

High High End!!

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"They look nice in those slips."
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post #648 of 862 Old 05-29-2012, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

love lgs ambitious timeline but a reality check here. a few months ago they were talking about a european release in may/june of this year and u.s. pricing of 8k. now they're talking about a release sometime later in 2012 maybe end of the year and now the price is 10k +. nothing wrong with that when you're bringing such an exceptional new tech to the consumer market, but need to temper these misses when considering promises of 4k next year and pricing 1.5 X lcds in 2 years, let alone their market share projections.

i'm all for oled asap but don't let the hype crowd out the likely reality.

also spec, i've learned on avs never to engage in an extended discussion with anyone with just 17 posts.

Agree on all points

We have been skeptical on LG's promises all these while on the OLED thread. Suffice to say that we are pleasantly surprised by the viability of RGBW.

4K OLED next year is quite unnecessary effort IMHO, they should just focus on ramping their 8G line
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post #649 of 862 Old 05-29-2012, 06:55 PM
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15lbs the 55" OLED weighs?

That means that UPS guy can fling that box a mile away to your doorstep if you're not home. j/k

Seriously though the thought of going alone shopping for a OLED and carrying that large box yourself without strain is amazing. And how easy it is to move when cleaning etc
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post #650 of 862 Old 05-29-2012, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Agree on all points

We have been skeptical on LG's promises all these while on the OLED thread. Suffice to say that we are pleasantly surprised by the viability of RGBW.

4K OLED next year is quite unnecessary effort IMHO, they should just focus on ramping their 8G line

Is manufacturing a 4K RGBW OLED that big a deal? The pixel density is still so low that I'm not sure how much additional complexity/cost is added...and considering the price of the set, I would think that 4K might matter to a decent number of potential buyers.
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post #651 of 862 Old 05-29-2012, 07:11 PM
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Not enough info but I would guess it is not a big deal above say 55". However the process and line would certainly have to be rejigged which would add to cost and yield optimisation. Couple that with the size constraint of IGZO backpane (for now). And we've been discussing in the 4k thread on how huge the TV should be (or how much closer you have to sit)

Would rather they focus on optimal yield on a 1080p 8G line. This is what I got from KIS:
"made it as a pilot product from 8GP83 line (they converted some part of 8G LCD line to 8G AMOLED Oxide line) For pilot product, they used 8G P83 line but for mass production, we believe they will convert 8G P98 line to AMOLED line"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

love lgs ambitious timeline but a reality check here. a few months ago they were talking about a european release in may/june of this year and u.s. pricing of 8k. now they're talking about a release sometime later in 2012 maybe end of the year and now the price is 10k +. nothing wrong with that when you're bringing such an exceptional new tech to the consumer market, but need to temper these misses when considering promises of 4k next year and pricing 1.5 X lcds in 2 years, let alone their market share projections.

i'm all for oled asap but don't let the hype crowd out the likely reality.

This thought regarding intended initial release was also in the back of my mind. I don't think 2012 will be OLED's year after all...starting to wonder if the October shootout will even have samples available to them. Samsung should've called their bluff back at CES.
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post #653 of 862 Old 05-30-2012, 12:07 AM
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^^ LG's bluff actually has a box
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post #654 of 862 Old 05-30-2012, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post

Is manufacturing a 4K RGBW OLED that big a deal? The pixel density is still so low that I'm not sure how much additional complexity/cost is added...and considering the price of the set, I would think that 4K might matter to a decent number of potential buyers.

I don't see why it would be hard at all. It's a trivially low pixel density compared to their mobile phones and since the OLED layers have no pixels of any kind we are talking the backplane and color filter only require "upgrades"

Quote:
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Not enough info but I would guess it is not a big deal above say 55". However the process and line would certainly have to be rejigged which would add to cost and yield optimisation. Couple that with the size constraint of IGZO backpane (for now). And we've been discussing in the 4k thread on how huge the TV should be (or how much closer you have to sit)

... but yes, there is the matter of yield optimization and how important this is at 55". And it appears that Sharp is finding it non-trivial to ramp IGZO production on LCD. So we'll see how quickly LG can make IGZO backplanes and then how quickly they can also make 4K backplanes.

One thing they might be well served to consider, however, would be to just make all the OLED TVs 4K. It would be a differentiator and if they did that, it would essentially add about $25-30 of cost for the additional video processing.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #655 of 862 Old 05-30-2012, 01:50 AM
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I don't see why it would be hard at all. It's a trivially low pixel density compared to their mobile phones and since the OLED layers have no pixels of any kind we are talking the backplane and color filter only require "upgrades"



... but yes, there is the matter of yield optimization and how important this is at 55". And it appears that Sharp is finding it non-trivial to ramp IGZO production on LCD. So we'll see how quickly LG can make IGZO backplanes and then how quickly they can also make 4K backplanes.

One thing they might be well served to consider, however, would be to just make all the OLED TVs 4K. It would be a differentiator and if they did that, it would essentially add about $25-30 of cost for the additional video processing.

-That would be great! Not to mention especially important move to 4K for LG - achieving 1080p 3D with their great Passive tech!
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post #656 of 862 Old 05-30-2012, 07:55 AM
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I wonder if it was smart of the LG executive to mention 4K OLED. To those that were considering the 55" OLED, will they now wait for the larger 4K OLED panels in 2014? Although at 55", the benefits of 4K will more likely pertain to adding Full HD passive 3D than a huge leap in sharpness. For me I will be waiting awhile for my ultimate set, a 80" 4K OLED with glare free glass for $2500.
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post #657 of 862 Old 05-30-2012, 08:19 AM
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I wonder if it was smart of the LG executive to mention 4K OLED. To those that were considering the 55" OLED, will they now wait for the larger 4K OLED panels in 2014?

There might indeed be some Osborne Effect. Especially if it is really "next year" as mentioned in the interview.
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post #658 of 862 Old 05-30-2012, 12:55 PM
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I wouldn't worry much about "Osborne-ing" this year's production. They are clearly not planning on shipping more than about 50K units. They telegraphed this months ago and I believe recently came out and said it. The world demand for 50K units, even at outrageous prices, shouldn't be in doubt.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #659 of 862 Old 05-30-2012, 04:01 PM
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This thought regarding intended initial release was also in the back of my mind. I don't think 2012 will be OLED's year after all...starting to wonder if the October shootout will even have samples available to them. Samsung should've called their bluff back at CES.

some russian site already has one...

photo posted a few pages back.
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post #660 of 862 Old 05-30-2012, 09:56 PM
 
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You're thinking of Greece (odd place to get it initially given the outright economic disaster they're presently facing, don't you think?) Preorders are supposedly available in Russia, though. The company spiel that was peddled as recently as 4 months ago is already shaping up to be potentially 9 months premature.
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