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post #661 of 862 Old 05-31-2012, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

One thing they might be well served to consider, however, would be to just make all the OLED TVs 4K. It would be a differentiator and if they did that, it would essentially add about $25-30 of cost for the additional video processing.

Even better differentiator would be 8K with negligible $50-60 of added cost.

The problem is this is not how mass production technology advances, one can not make too big steps at a time. Theoretically one can plan for direct jump into some XXX Gen technology but risk is too high. Normal way would be to ramp up and smooth mass production of 2K OLED before talking 4K. So while the LG statement of making 4K OLED next year is amazing, one has to see how it realizes in practice. Besides, the size of the display is critical, there is no sense in the 55" 4K. That leads us to a 70"+ 4K OLEDs which would be awesome but again too early to talk about even before any modest 55" 2K appeared in shops.

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post #662 of 862 Old 05-31-2012, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Even better differentiator would be 8K with negligible $50-60 of added cost.

The problem is this is not how mass production technology advances, one can not make too big steps at a time. Theoretically one can plan for direct jump into some XXX Gen technology but risk is too high. Normal way would be to ramp up and smooth mass production of 2K OLED before talking 4K. So while the LG statement of making 4K OLED next year is amazing, one has to see how it realizes in practice. Besides, the size of the display is critical, there is no sense in the 55" 4K. That leads us to a 70"+ 4K OLEDs which would be awesome but again too early to talk about even before any modest 55" 2K appeared in shops.

Irkuck, perhaps you missed my point.

They could simply link OLED and 4K. They don't need to ever ramp up its 2K production and make an incremental step later. They could do this even if the value of such a decision at 55" is largely irrelevant to actual viewing.

If OLED could simply be marketed as "the 4K TV" that would solve one of its biggest problems -- no clear superiority over existing solutions. I know AVSers think there is some clear superiority, but the relatively small incremental contrast and color is not going to be much out there in the marketplace. Those are not even specs that are sold any longer as contrast ratio long ago became meaningless and color was never really "sold". Resolution is something consumers understand, even if they don't see it.

I'm not expecting this, so it's an academic discussion. I do expect to purchase a 70-80" 4K OLED in about 4-5 years, however.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #663 of 862 Old 05-31-2012, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Irkuck, perhaps you missed my point.

They could simply link OLED and 4K. They don't need to ever ramp up its 2K production and make an incremental step later. They could do this even if the value of such a decision at 55" is largely irrelevant to actual viewing.

If OLED could simply be marketed as "the 4K TV" that would solve one of its biggest problems -- no clear superiority over existing solutions. I know AVSers think there is some clear superiority, but the relatively small incremental contrast and color is not going to be much out there in the marketplace. Those are not even specs that are sold any longer as contrast ratio long ago became meaningless and color was never really "sold". Resolution is something consumers understand, even if they don't see it.

I'm not expecting this, so it's an academic discussion. I do expect to purchase a 70-80" 4K OLED in about 4-5 years, however.

I agree and have about the same plan.

 

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post #664 of 862 Old 05-31-2012, 07:21 AM
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Fortunately for Samsung they are also going OLED as well and they could end up being on the top with LG, Terrible thought I know but OLED is the future and at least Samsung has brains enough to know it.

What's "terrible" about LG and Samsung being on top with OLED ?

I don't get all this brand fanboyism stuff.

Some people swear by Sony, others by Pioneer, others by Panasonic .. I mean what the hell ? LG and Samsung were the only majors who had the guts to jump to a new technology.

Where is Panasonic/Sony/Pioneer in all this ? Holding on to obsolete and greedy technologies ?

Plasma is the only thing that comes close to a real TV on the market in the present time (the Sharp ELITE is en exception), but still gets rocked by a good old CRT.

Samsung and LG are already leading this market.

80% of panels used on the market are form either Samsung or LG-Philips, now get over it.

Panasonic hasn't innovated sh*t, except selling 3,500$ plasma TV's that have an acceptable image (yes, acceptable, but most of the peoples don't see that because there is nothing else to compare. I mean, compare to LCD ? really ? LOL).

Sony is being Samsung's b*tch buying trucks and trucks of panels and components. They make ZERO profit out of the TV market, they just don't wanna disappear miserably from the market. I guess that's what we call "japanese pride".

Where's Pioneer ? After loosing their shirt and pants in their Kuro bet they're nowhere to be seen. You really think other manufacturers couldn't sell identical specs on such an old tech ? Get real ...

Samsung is probably ages ahead, they're just not stupid enough to sell 4000$ plasmas. Who the f*ck is gonna buy these things ...

To all the market analysts wannabes and "pros", you might wanna get your ass out of your PC chair and go see a real OLED with your bear eyes. Then, your opinion on the fact might be objective.

Had to say it.
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post #665 of 862 Old 05-31-2012, 08:08 AM
 
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Bear eyes, sweet! The Koreans are not reknowned for their history in quality control, though I admit that's probably taken a dip across the board in the last 4 years. Why are you dragging Pioneer's name through the mud? No one is expecting them to unleash a Kuro killer tomorrow or anytime soon.
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post #666 of 862 Old 05-31-2012, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by brody76 View Post

What's "terrible" about LG and Samsung being on top with OLED ?

I don't get all this brand fanboyism stuff.

Some people swear by Sony, others by Pioneer, others by Panasonic .. I mean what the hell ? LG and Samsung were the only majors who had the guts to jump to a new technology.

Where is Panasonic/Sony/Pioneer in all this ? Holding on to obsolete and greedy technologies ?

Plasma is the only thing that comes close to a real TV on the market in the present time (the Sharp ELITE is en exception), but still gets rocked by a good old CRT.

Samsung and LG are already leading this market.

80% of panels used on the market are form either Samsung or LG-Philips, now get over it.

Panasonic hasn't innovated sh*t, except selling 3,500$ plasma TV's that have an acceptable image (yes, acceptable, but most of the peoples don't see that because there is nothing else to compare. I mean, compare to LCD ? really ? LOL).

Sony is being Samsung's b*tch buying trucks and trucks of panels and components. They make ZERO profit out of the TV market, they just don't wanna disappear miserably from the market. I guess that's what we call "japanese pride".

Where's Pioneer ? After loosing their shirt and pants in their Kuro bet they're nowhere to be seen. You really think other manufacturers couldn't sell identical specs on such an old tech ? Get real ...

Samsung is probably ages ahead, they're just not stupid enough to sell 4000$ plasmas. Who the f*ck is gonna buy these things ...

To all the market analysts wannabes and "pros", you might wanna get your ass out of your PC chair and go see a real OLED with your bear eyes. Then, your opinion on the fact might be objective.

Had to say it.

Sorry I should have made it more clear, I have no problem with LG or any of the other display companies. It's Samsung I have the problem with, they make cheep copes of products by solely copying others shamelessly in the industry.

 

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post #667 of 862 Old 05-31-2012, 09:28 AM
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Sorry I should have made it more clear, I have no problem with LG or any of the other display companies. It's Samsung I have the problem with, they make cheep copes of products by solely copying others shamelessly in the industry.

Just like Toyota copies Ford and your local ice cream retailer copies Italians. Get over it, it's called marketing. Concepts come and go, they're here to be copied and exploited, this is the way the market works.

There are tons of iphone-like phones out there, Samsung isn't the only villain.
And did you know that Apple is facing patent violation with both LG and Samsung, and not the opposite ?
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post #668 of 862 Old 05-31-2012, 09:49 AM
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Just like Toyota copies Ford and your local ice cream retailer copies Italians. Get over it, it's called marketing. Concepts come and go, they're here to be copied and exploited, this is the way the market works.

There are tons of iphone-like phones out there, Samsung isn't the only villain.
And did you know that Apple is facing patent violation with both LG and Samsung, and not the opposite ?

We are getting off topic here, let's just agree to disagree.

 

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post #669 of 862 Old 05-31-2012, 12:53 PM
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consumer electronics is just about the most competitive businesses i can think of to participate in. from 1980s to mid 2000s the japanese kicked butt and drove most every american consumer electronic company out of business. even having the wherewithal to buy the names of american companies from bk to put on their products so u.s. consumers thought they were buying domestic.

but since mid 2000s, now the japanese co.s are getting they same treatment as the former american electronic co.s. pioneer has fled the playing field. sony has lost billions in consumer tech over last 10 years. panny and sharp are hanging on by a thread.

samsung and lg have excelled in consumer electronics not because they just copied other products (caveat, this does not apply to apple related products as, imho, samsung is definitely copying apple) but because they are smart, aggressive, and willing to take risks. lcd panel mnfrg plants are not based on stolen tech. it's based on being willing to gamble 100 of millions of dollars in production facilities without any assurance that they will be able to sell all their product.

i believe sharp is the only japanese company that has invested in a state of the art panel mnfrg plant in last few years. sony and panny haven't and buy from the others leaving little margin for profit.

lg and samsung are building oleds not with stolen tech, but based on their willingness to invest in research and gambling on a new tech, which if works out, they will dominate. sony has had oled displays for a couple of years, but where are their oled consumer displays?

time and market forces change. the korean companies are on top and they've earned it.

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post #670 of 862 Old 05-31-2012, 02:32 PM
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time and market forces change. the korean companies are on top and they've earned it.

It is going to be a short reign for them at the top. The Chinese are going to crush them on cost. That is why the Japanese are looking to partner with AOU, CMI, TCL and Foxconn. No one is going to beat them on price with their "slave" labor, so you either join with them or innovate with bleeding edge tech to keep them at bay.
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post #671 of 862 Old 05-31-2012, 03:36 PM
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It is going to be a short reign for them at the top. The Chinese are going to crush them on cost. That is why the Japanese are looking to partner with AOU, CMI, TCL and Foxconn. No one is going to beat them on price with their "slave" labor, so you either join with them or innovate with bleeding edge tech to keep them at bay.

now if you want to talk about stealing technology.....

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post #672 of 862 Old 05-31-2012, 03:36 PM
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Ok one more post on this off topic subject.

To this day Samsung can't even make an LED full-array display with local dimming technology, because you see Samsung ripped-off that technology from Sharp. Samsung was found guilty of FOUR patent infringements against Sharp in a court of law.

PS: Oh and of course this shameless constant ripping off of Apple products that everyone is a-where of (see below)

Quote: "Samsung’s predilection for shamelessly ripping off Apple’s design is well documented at this point. Here’s Samsung shamelessly ripping off the iOS homescreen. Here’s Samsung shamelessly ripping off the iPod touch. Here’s Samsung shamelessly ripping off the Smart Cover. Here’s Samsung shamelessly ripping off the iPhone 3G. And here’s Samsung even ripping off an actress from an iPhone commercial."

etc. etc. etc....

http://www.cultofmac.com/170727/sams...-the-mac-mini/

How can anyone respect a company like this?

 

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post #673 of 862 Old 05-31-2012, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

Ok one more post on this off topic subject.

To this day Samsung can't even make an LED full-array display with local dimming technology, because you see Samsung ripped-off that technology from Sharp. Samsung was found guilty of FOUR patent infringements against Sharp in a court of law.

PS: Oh and of course this shameless constant ripping off of Apple products that everyone is a-where of (see below)

Quote: "Samsung’s predilection for shamelessly ripping off Apple’s design is well documented at this point. Here’s Samsung shamelessly ripping off the iOS homescreen. Here’s Samsung shamelessly ripping off the iPod touch. Here’s Samsung shamelessly ripping off the Smart Cover. Here’s Samsung shamelessly ripping off the iPhone 3G. And here’s Samsung even ripping off an actress from an iPhone commercial."

etc. etc. etc....

http://www.cultofmac.com/170727/sams...-the-mac-mini/

How can anyone respect a company like this?

Extremely objective, coming from a pro apple website ...
Lets pretend you didn't post this link.

At this point, Apple should be suing every PMP and pocket player manufacturer. Because they all "inspired" at least one of their product either from the iphone or the ipod touch.

This whole jealousy from Apple fanboys about Samsung being more successful on the electronic market is getting annoying (yes, they're number one, like it or not).

If you wanna see Apple getting fisted severely, check out the Chinese ripoffs of the Iphone.

Everyone at some point was copied, welcome to the 21 century.

Chinese are good for stealing techs and "shamelessly" copying products, Samsung isn't.
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post #674 of 862 Old 05-31-2012, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post

It is going to be a short reign for them at the top. The Chinese are going to crush them on cost. That is why the Japanese are looking to partner with AOU, CMI, TCL and Foxconn. No one is going to beat them on price with their "slave" labor, so you either join with them or innovate with bleeding edge tech to keep them at bay.

Koreans are also manufacturing at a low cost in China.
Chinese products are usually low cost because the materials used are cheap, not for the manufacturing cost anymore.

This would have been true 30 years ago, now everyone is exploiting this chinese "slave" labor already. Chinese won't be able to propose much cheaper products to the occidental market (at least, not the same quality as other brands).
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post #675 of 862 Old 05-31-2012, 09:48 PM
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^^ Korea has some manufacturing partners in China, including Taiwanese, but primarily still manufacture key technology in Korea, for obvious reasons. They have more progress in China than Japanese, for obvious historical reasons.

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Originally Posted by brody76 View Post

Where is Panasonic/Sony/Pioneer in all this ? Holding on to obsolete and greedy technologies ?

80% of panels used on the market are form either Samsung or LG-Philips, now get over it.

Sony is being Samsung's b*tch buying trucks and trucks of panels and components.

Where's Pioneer ? After loosing their shirt and pants in their Kuro bet they're nowhere to be seen. You really think other manufacturers couldn't sell identical specs on such an old tech ? Get real ...

Samsung is probably ages ahead, they're just not stupid enough to sell 4000$ plasmas. Who the f*ck is gonna buy these things ...

Had to say it.

The Japanese have an OLED consortium. As you are probably aware, Sony was also the pioneer in OLED.

50% of global LCD panels are from Sammy and LG. They've never even hit more than 2/3. LG-Phillips was dissolved like 3 years ago

Sony was SLCD b*tch because it was a 50% JV between Sammy and Sony.

Others couldn't do Kuro tech at a mass market price even after Panny bought Kuro Tech. You should follow the reasons closer to claim to be "real".

Sammy is launching $10k OLED TV which many claim to be stupid/ ridiculous/ etc. But actually it all depends on how these companies are able to price down these tech and develop new ones, based on what they have learnt. Without plasmas, HDTV may not have a beach-head and without LCD there may not be an existing market for OLED TV. Current tech ALWAYS stands on the shoulders of previous tech.

Had to correct it.

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Originally Posted by brody76 View Post

Just like Toyota copies Ford and your local ice cream retailer copies Italians. Get over it, it's called marketing. Concepts come and go, they're here to be copied and exploited, this is the way the market works.

There are tons of iphone-like phones out there, Samsung isn't the only villain.
And did you know that Apple is facing patent violation with both LG and Samsung, and not the opposite ?

You obviously don't understand the legal intricacies. I don't claim to be an expert but there are countersuits all over the place in the tech world. It is quite obvious however from an observer point of view that Sammy is copying a lot from Apple's products. But Sammy also had their own innovations including the Galaxy S series.

But I'll agree with you that Apple has a very tough claim with regards to iPhone. Check out the LG Prada which IMHO was the pioneer to modern smartphones, but LG failed to take it a step further due to the OS. Apple has to narrow their claim to specifics to win

Ironically I am anti-fanboyism as well but I think you are just throwing out a lot of stuff that you don't understand well enough.
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post #676 of 862 Old 05-31-2012, 11:10 PM
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Irkuck, perhaps you missed my point.
They could simply link OLED and 4K. They don't need to ever ramp up its 2K production and make an incremental step later. They could do this even if the value of such a decision at 55" is largely irrelevant to actual viewing.
If OLED could simply be marketed as "the 4K TV" that would solve one of its biggest problems -- no clear superiority over existing solutions. I know AVSers think there is some clear superiority, but the relatively small incremental contrast and color is not going to be much out there in the marketplace. Those are not even specs that are sold any longer as contrast ratio long ago became meaningless and color was never really "sold". Resolution is something consumers understand, even if they don't see it.

I think I have not missed your point. Indeed, jumping directly to the OLED4K would be a great marketing weapon no matter how sensible this is.

The problem is that in mass manufacturing you can't make too big jump at a time. There are technical and economic reasons behind this. Even the 2K OLED 55" is an extraordinary technological jump, 4K is mind-boggling. Apparently all details of the 2K production are now solved. But still one has to start the distribution and see in the real world, usually some quirks show up and have to be corrected. In addition, consumer reaction is always a big unknown. Wildly optimistic manufacturer predictions may crash and the 4K would not help.

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I'm not expecting this, so it's an academic discussion. I do expect to purchase a 70-80" 4K OLED in about 4-5 years, however.

and you expect to buy it cheap, much cheaper than the cheapest current 80" LCDs .

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post #677 of 862 Old 06-01-2012, 12:47 AM
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I think I have not missed your point. Indeed, jumping directly to the OLED4K would be a great marketing weapon no matter how sensible this is.

The problem is that in mass manufacturing you can't make too big jump at a time. There are technical and economic reasons behind this. Even the 2K OLED 55" is an extraordinary technological jump, 4K is mind-boggling. Apparently all details of the 2K production are now solved. But still one has to start the distribution and see in the real world, usually some quirks show up and have to be corrected. In addition, consumer reaction is always a big unknown. Wildly optimistic manufacturer predictions may crash and the 4K would not help.

If they wasted no time trying to build 2K OLEDs and only focused on 4K OLEDs, they would achieve very nearly the same rate of production they are likely to achieve anyway, but with 4K screens. This has everything to do with the fact that all the production processes don't exist and would be designed and optimized around 4K production.

It's simply not the case they are adapting much of anything from 2K production. The only carry over is color filters. Surely you don't believe that they can't make 4K color filters with nearly 100% yields. (Given that they make iPad screens with huge yields already that have far higher dot pitch I'm not even having this conversation.) If they had started the IGZO backplane operation assuming 4K, it's very likely it would be able to hit the 2012 and 2013 production targets. But, again, this is academic. They are not doing this.
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and you expect to buy it cheap, much cheaper than the cheapest current 80" LCDs .

I expect to buy it for today's 80" TV price actually. I don't think that's absurd, even if that means 5 years.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #678 of 862 Old 06-01-2012, 09:05 AM
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I don't suppose LG said anything about a nice 24" OLED monitor did they? I'd pay a premium for that and if the gamut / color accuracy claims of OLED are true, so would anyone that is currently buying $2000 LCD monitors for industrial designing that needs it.

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post #679 of 862 Old 06-01-2012, 11:27 AM
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I don't suppose LG said anything about a nice 24" OLED monitor did they? I'd pay a premium for that and if the gamut / color accuracy claims of OLED are true, so would anyone that is currently buying $2000 LCD monitors for industrial designing that needs it.

LG isn't making 24" OLED monitors yet but Sony does make some nice ones. They have a PVM2541 model which retails for $5500 so its a significant premium to your $2000 LCD. Sony has a pdf brochure which covers color gamut accuracy which I would include but AVS thinks I'm a spammer until I make 3 posts. You can google "sony oled monitor specs" and its titled "BVM-E / BVM-F / PVM Series OLED Monitor - Sony", page 21.
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post #680 of 862 Old 06-01-2012, 11:31 AM
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^^ Korea has some manufacturing partners in China, including Taiwanese, but primarily still manufacture key technology in Korea, for obvious reasons. They have more progress in China than Japanese, for obvious historical reasons.



The Japanese have an OLED consortium. As you are probably aware, Sony was also the pioneer in OLED.

50% of global LCD panels are from Sammy and LG. They've never even hit more than 2/3. LG-Phillips was dissolved like 3 years ago

Sony was SLCD b*tch because it was a 50% JV between Sammy and Sony.

Others couldn't do Kuro tech at a mass market price even after Panny bought Kuro Tech. You should follow the reasons closer to claim to be "real".

Sammy is launching $10k OLED TV which many claim to be stupid/ ridiculous/ etc. But actually it all depends on how these companies are able to price down these tech and develop new ones, based on what they have learnt. Without plasmas, HDTV may not have a beach-head and without LCD there may not be an existing market for OLED TV. Current tech ALWAYS stands on the shoulders of previous tech.

Had to correct it.



You obviously don't understand the legal intricacies. I don't claim to be an expert but there are countersuits all over the place in the tech world. It is quite obvious however from an observer point of view that Sammy is copying a lot from Apple's products. But Sammy also had their own innovations including the Galaxy S series.

But I'll agree with you that Apple has a very tough claim with regards to iPhone. Check out the LG Chocolate which IMHO was the pioneer to modern smartphones, but LG failed to take it a step further due to the OS. Apple has to narrow their claim to specifics to win

Ironically I am anti-fanboyism as well but I think you are just throwing out a lot of stuff that you don't understand well enough.

Sony's OLED adventure was a waste of money and time.
They're far from achieving 55" OLED panels like Samsung and LG does.

Sony's LCD panels are produced in Gimpo Korea, in a Samsung factory.
So no, it's Samsung tech, Sony doesn't manufacture panels anymore (and it's been a while).

No, LG-Philips was not "dissolved".
LG actually bought Philips shares, they just changed the name LG-Philips to LG.

What legal "intricacies" ?

Why those products aren't removed from the market if they do infringe the law ? As far as I know, I can go out and buy one of those Samsung Applie-like devices, and it's totally legal.

If Apple is 100% right about this, why aren't they taking it to the court ? and why are those products still on the market ?

Because it's total bull crap, that's why.

Seeing the market share Apple is loosing to Samsung with those devices, do you honestly believe they wouldn't tackle Samsung if they could ?

Obviously the law is much more complex than what you think, and Samsung doesn't hire shoeshine boys to defend their interest in the court.

Now hate all you want.

Kuro tech at "mass market price" ? 4000$ for a 50" is actually "mass market price" ? Really ?
Lets pretend I didn't hear anything.
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I'm personally hoping LG's new 55'' OLED display tears apart Samsung's new 55'' OLED. Samsung needs to be taught a lesson in marketing and humility, you don't bite the hand that feeds you. Copying aside, in this case I'm referring to us the consumers Samsung is insulting and calling Sheep unless you buy their products. Samsung needs to be slapped hard and I can't wait to see it happen. Perhaps someday if Samsung ever humbles themselves or becomes tolerable in a civil sense, I might consider buying form them again. But until then Samsung won't be getting my business.

 

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@brody76
"List of 50+ Apple-Samsung lawsuits in 10 countries"
http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/04/l...its-in-10.html

Kind of big news actually, and has been for a while. Presumably you were asking a rhetorical question about why isn't Apple suing Samsung? Let's hope.

(had a longer response but didn't post the rest because this is an LG OLED thread)
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post #683 of 862 Old 06-02-2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunidrem View Post

@brody76
"List of 50+ Apple-Samsung lawsuits in 10 countries"
http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/04/l...its-in-10.html

Kind of big news actually, and has been for a while. Presumably you were asking a rhetorical question about why isn't Apple suing Samsung? Let's hope.

(had a longer response but didn't post the rest because this is an LG OLED thread)

From a blogger blog ? Are you serious ?

You can't possibly consider this as a source.

There has to be 50 or so lawsuits from LG against Sony, and 50 other lawsuits between Pioneer and Hyundai. Nothing exceptional, happens all the time, this is the electronic market.

And most of them are for ridiculously small things.

So I don't see the point you're trying to make with your blogger blog link.

And guess who copied who in the first place.



Yep, that's right.

I wonder who's "shamelessly copying"...

And in all honesty calling the Galaxy S2 an "Iphone clone", you would have to be pretty blind or totally retarded to believe this, this design has been around at Samsung since 2006. And yet this is what Apple is stating.
Tired of reading inanities from Apple fanboys.
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Foss Patents is one of the world's respected authorities on discussing these matters at this point. I'm tired of reading inanities from people who call people who disagree with them "Apple fanboys".

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #685 of 862 Old 06-03-2012, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brody76 View Post

Sony's LCD panels are produced in Gimpo Korea, in a Samsung factory.
So no, it's Samsung tech, Sony doesn't manufacture panels anymore (and it's been a while).

No, LG-Philips was not "dissolved".
LG actually bought Philips shares, they just changed the name LG-Philips to LG.

LG Philips was a JV that dissolved when the JV CFO, Ron Wirahadiraksa which Philips appointed and whom I met a few times, stepped down and Philips subsequently sold the shares.

In the same breath so was the SLCD JV dissolved, which Sony recently sold. Their main 8G fab is at Tanjeong
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-LCD

Quote:
Originally Posted by brody76 View Post

What legal "intricacies" ?

Why those products aren't removed from the market if they do infringe the law ? As far as I know, I can go out and buy one of those Samsung Applie-like devices, and it's totally legal.

If Apple is 100% right about this, why aren't they taking it to the court ? and why are those products still on the market ?

Because it's total bull crap, that's why.

Seeing the market share Apple is loosing to Samsung with those devices, do you honestly believe they wouldn't tackle Samsung if they could ?

Obviously the law is much more complex than what you think, and Samsung doesn't hire shoeshine boys to defend their interest in the court.

By referring to intricacies I think I had assumed the process is more difficult that YOU think:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...war-on-android
"Samsung, she suggested, may have imitated Apple, but Apple may have imitated a much earlier (commercially unsuccessful) device introduced in 1994 by the newspaper publisher Knight-Ridder."



As a first step, the judge reaffirmed that while a product design is patentable, aspects "dictated by functionality" are not. Apple's patents do not give it ownership of the idea of making smartphones small enough to hold conveniently. If they could, no one else would ever be able to sell a usable smartphone. Similarly, Apple can't preclude rivals from having a screen large enough for the user to control with the touch of a finger, or a speaker in the upper portion of the device's front face so it can be placed next to the ear.

Turning to the concept of "obviousness," Koh showed sympathy for Samsung's argument that Apple's claims of "earthshaking" innovation may be a tad exaggerated. She analyzed a Japanese patent issued to the Japanese company Sharp on June 6, 2005, well before Apple obtained its relevant patents. Foreign patents can be cited as "prior art" to undercut U.S. patents. Illustrating her opinion with sketches from U.S. Patent Office records, Koh said the Sharp patent, like Apple's D'087, has "rounded corners, a bezel, a similarly shaped speaker, and similar proportions of screen and border." The Sharp patent "discloses an overall simple, minimalistic design." She added: "An ordinary observer would likely consider [Apple's] D'087 to be substantially the same" as Sharp's patent."

It is not a simple black and white patent issue, even though the casual observer can easily come to a conclusion. By your simplistic logic since I am able to get Chinese knock-offs in the market and Apple or others hasn't sue them yet means they are legal?

The total crap is that you don't understand that the lawsuits are still pending and nothing will change until we get the outcome. Before that, both can essentially do what they want. Apple has actually "tackled" Samsung: They sued Sammy FIRST. And BTW Apple buys $7b (IIRC went as high as $10b) of goods from Sammy... add that to the intricacies.

I am no fan of Apple but I am a fan of facts and sense.
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post #686 of 862 Old 06-03-2012, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brody76 View Post

Where's Pioneer ? After loosing their shirt and pants in their Kuro bet they're nowhere to be seen. You really think other manufacturers couldn't sell identical specs on such an old tech ? Get real ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Others couldn't do Kuro tech at a mass market price even after Panny bought Kuro Tech. You should follow the reasons closer to claim to be "real".

Quote:
Originally Posted by brody76 View Post

Kuro tech at "mass market price" ? 4000$ for a 50" is actually "mass market price" ? Really ?
Lets pretend I didn't hear anything.

You should reread the posts
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post #687 of 862 Old 06-04-2012, 06:12 AM
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It sure would be nice if people would stop arguing about stuff that has nothing to do with the actual thread topic.

Now back to the actual topic of the thread;

"Is this the future of television?? LG launch "ultimate display" OLED TV"

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technol...evision-862142

"Tech launches don't come much glitzier than the bash LG had for its new flagship 55" OLED TV last week.

The no-expenses spared event took place in the billionaires playground of Monte Carlo ahead of this year's Monaco GP with F1 legends Sebastian Vettel and David Coulthard on hand for the occasion, along with film director Jean-Jacques Annaud and model Gemma Sanderson.

Despite it being a time of belt-tightening, such grandstanding was both justified (the set is nothing short of stunning), and in many ways necessary.

Organic Light Emitting Diode technology represents the next battlefield for TV manufacturers after the bloody wars of plasma and LCD claimed big name casualties such as Pioneer, JVC and Phillips.

Like plasma TVs, OLED panels have pixels that are self-illuminating. This has the benefit of eliminating the need for backlighting, something that is required by LED TVs which in turn make them incapable of delivering truly deep blacks.

Not having a backlight unit also means OLED displays can be much slimmer and lighter than anything currently on the market, while also offering much lower power consumption.

Up until this point the only OLED displays that manufacturers have so far released have been squint-inducing 11 and 15 inch affairs, so LG's unveiling of a wall-filling 55" screen set is a significant one.

The TV itself is nothing short of a game-changer. Just 4mm thick, watching some demo footage of Vancouver at night really showed off the screen's insanely precise and vibrant colour range, with a rich level of contrast that wipes the floor with Pioneer's much fabled Kuro plasma range - up until this point my benchmark for TV's.

Better still was how it dealt with fast moving images, offering a level of smoothness you're unlikely to ever get with an LCD.

LG are set open pre-orders next month ahead of a winter release, stealing a march on Korean rival Samsung who also have a similarly sized OLED supposedly waiting in the wings.........................
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I think I opened up a can of worms here lol. All copy-cat reasons aside the main reason I don't like Samsung isn't only because of their copy-cating other people it's their Attitude towards the consumers. Samsung's commercials for example are attacking the potential consumers who have not yet purchased their products. Samsung is calling everyone "Sheep" who don't buy their stuff, how wrong is that? At one point I used to use Samsung products but now that thought is completly dead for me because of Samsung's terrible attitude and offensive commercials. In fact Samsung's commercials have had the reverse effect not only on me but millions of other people out their. If you ask me Samsung should fire there marketing department for damages done. The big issue for Samsung now isn't there copying it's their image.

http://www.webpronews.com/samsung-ga...-sheep-2012-04

Ok let's get back to the topic of the thread. ;p

 

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Greenland, what are we supposed to talk about? What regions we might be able to pre-order in ahead of the winter release? I think everyone has heard the about the fancy press events. We know the TVs are coming. As some of us suggested earlier in the year, we didn't think you'd really see them by mid-year. And it appears, lo, you won't.

Rad, Nokia also has a new campaign where they call all their potential customers idiots. It seems in vogue in phones to say, "Hey, morons, buy our phone." No idea who greenlights this kind of junk. Certainly not Don Draper.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Greenland, what are we supposed to talk about? What regions we might be able to pre-order in ahead of the winter release? I think everyone has heard the about the fancy press events. We know the TVs are coming. As some of us suggested earlier in the year, we didn't think you'd really see them by mid-year. And it appears, lo, you won't.

Rad, Nokia also has a new campaign where they call all their potential customers idiots. It seems in vogue in phones to say, "Hey, morons, buy our phone." No idea who greenlights this kind of junk. Certainly not Don Draper.

rogo, is that the same loop on the lg screen as was shown at ces?

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