LG Official Announces 55" OLED for CES- - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 862 Old 01-09-2012, 06:00 PM
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Has Samsung, Panasonic, or LG released the MSRP on the rest of their 2012 TV models today?

As far as I can tell, they have not, so why the hell are people trying to make something out of LG not releasing a price on the OLED display? To the best of my recollection, they did not release their MSRP on their models at CES in previous years either, but waited until they were being shipped. I think Panasonic might have done something similar in the past. It is the first day of CES, and already some people are running through here with their hair on fire, because they have not being provided with a precise shipping date, the exact price that it will be, and what color hair the delivery driver will have. Get a grip people, and let things unfold in their own good time, It is not like there is going to be a four mile line outside Best Buy at midnight waiting to grab the first shipment up.
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post #182 of 862 Old 01-09-2012, 06:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

My 1st line was directed at your claim, but the rest are in response to general finger pointing

We should learn to enjoy what is available through the hard work of many, rather than keep thinking of what could-have-been

Point taken. I was a late adopter to both Plasma and Kuro (2008). ;-)
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post #183 of 862 Old 01-09-2012, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Has Samsung, Panasonic, or LG released the MSRP on the rest of their 2012 TV models today?

As far as I can tell, they have not, so why the hell are people trying to make something out of LG not releasing a price on the OLED display? To the best of my recollection, they did not release their MSRP on their models at CES in previous years either, but waited until they were being shipped. I think Panasonic might have done something similar in the past. It is the first day of CES, and already some people are running through here with their hair on fire, because they have not being provided with a precise shipping date, the exact price that it will be, and what color hair the delivery driver will have. Get a grip people, and let things unfold in their own good time, It is not like their is going to be a four mile line outside Best Buy at midnight waiting to grab the first shipment up.

No one is asking for prices because they know it's vaporware.
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post #184 of 862 Old 01-09-2012, 06:53 PM
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I hope all this oled news gets Panasonic off its ass and serious about plasma advancement ie. blacker blacks, brighter sets.

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post #185 of 862 Old 01-09-2012, 08:07 PM
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I fully expect Samsung and LG to have their products for sale. The price might not be desireable but I'm confident they will be there.

I hope the price does come down, the performance is as awesome as hyped and next year have 65inch sets around 6k.

There seem to be some people who seem to be really hoping these sets don't come out or fail. I'm not sure the reasoning behind this esp on a avSCIENCE site.
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post #186 of 862 Old 01-09-2012, 09:01 PM
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They just over-competitive. They don't care about reasoning or common sense. They just HAD TO be right. -For Good, Evil - doesn't matter! Their motto : "-I told ya!" ...
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post #187 of 862 Old 01-09-2012, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RobertR1 View Post

I fully expect Samsung and LG to have their products for sale.

There seem to be some people who seem to be really hoping these sets don't come out or fail. I'm not sure the reasoning behind this esp on a avSCIENCE site.


I'm not so much hoping the tech fails, I'm just hoping LG puts the same effort (i.e. none) into advertising and marketing it as they did the 55LHX, and the people at BB do the same job (lousy) of setup as they did with 55LHX to make it look as poor as possible on the floor... is it too much to ask that I can pick one up as an open-box in spring 2013 for under $2K? I kid, but the timeline,cutting edge technology, likely exorbitant initial MSRP (~$5K for the 55LHX), flasgship model etc. are pretty similar

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
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I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #188 of 862 Old 01-09-2012, 11:32 PM
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I strongly doubt LG will make this product available in the U.S. this year. Nothing they said indicates otherwise. If it is available this year, however, I think $10,000 is a good guess and quantities will be in the single-digit thousands.

That said, it is an exciting step no matter how you slice it. And I'll take mine sliced extra thin.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #189 of 862 Old 01-09-2012, 11:51 PM
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OK, so 30% of the initial MSRP is $3k, and a bit later to market... Christmas 2013 sure will be fun Then again, it'll be a tough choice between this and the 4k infinitec 3d LED projector that should be available then!

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #190 of 862 Old 01-09-2012, 11:53 PM
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It's just another OLED prototype being teased as a potential retail product. Samsung was showing 40-inch OLED back in 2004. Other than bigger size, there's nothing new here.
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post #191 of 862 Old 01-10-2012, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR1 View Post

There seem to be some people who seem to be really hoping these sets don't come out or fail. I'm not sure the reasoning behind this esp on a avSCIENCE site.

Quite the opposite, I've had a Cowon S9 w/ a 3.3" AMOLED for the past 3 years and have been a rabid supporter of OLED, but I've watched the past 4+ CES events and nothing they've teased has been released in the US. Just being realistic and basing a prediction on past events.
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post #192 of 862 Old 01-10-2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR1 View Post

There seem to be some people who seem to be really hoping these sets don't come out or fail. I'm not sure the reasoning behind this esp on a avSCIENCE site.

also disagree with this

we have seen news of the imminent release of OLED for so many years, perhaps we grow a bit skeptical, especially in light of the turmoil in the market


just my opinion
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post #193 of 862 Old 01-10-2012, 11:21 AM
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I wonder if Runco will do anything in a OLED format.
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post #194 of 862 Old 01-10-2012, 11:23 AM
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"Release 2. half of 2012 in UK"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nue5d...layer_embedded

This is a real product, it has a modell number, like the 15EL9500 before.
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post #195 of 862 Old 01-10-2012, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR1 View Post

I fully expect Samsung and LG to have their products for sale. The price might not be desireable but I'm confident they will be there.

I hope the price does come down, the performance is as awesome as hyped and next year have 65inch sets around 6k.

There seem to be some people who seem to be really hoping these sets don't come out or fail. I'm not sure the reasoning behind this esp on a avSCIENCE site.

That's ridiculous. I've been watching this thread for a while and what you are seeing are some commentors who are trying to pass along realistic expectations.

First expectation - This isn't the first year we've seen an OLED TV that never made it to market. So some of us are a little skeptical.

Second expectation - The tv market is highly competitive. Pioneer had a brand name that tried to carve out a niche in upper end products. Whatever you think of Pioneer, they've always tried to sit in that higher quality, higer end product market. They had Kuro, which most will attest, was a vastly superior product during it's time and yet Pioneer couldn't continue in an upper end type niche in the TV market. LG is not exactly known for high end products, IMHO so it has a tougher road to make a name for itself in that niche. Additionally, there are already very thin LCDs and plasmas. So how do you get somebody to buy a 55" OLED for twice as much as a 55" Samsung LCD, which is already more expensive than a Samsung 58" PDP that's less than an inch thick itself? So, even if OLED is every avs member's dream set in terms of black levels, color, off-angle, etc., mass adoption of this technology is by no means a sure thing.

Third expectation - No matter where you fall on the beta vs. VHS or HD-DVD vs. BD or on PDP vs. LCD, you have to admit that the best product doesn't always win. Sometimes market demand and availability are driven by other factors (like price). And be assured, that LCD makers are going to throw down a gauntlet of cheap and large LCD screens. Black Friday shoppers wont be rushing to the expensive OLEDs especially if the differences are barely discernable to an uninformed buyer.

So I'm sorry some people rained on your parade. You should be excited. OLED is a promising technology and it's very good news that large mainstream OLED screens are closer to realization. Just keep in mind that some of us have been on the avsforum for a long time. We have seen technology come and go and seen overly optimistic prognostications made many times. Therefore, have a basis for our cautious optimism and our realistic appraisal of the situation.
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post #196 of 862 Old 01-10-2012, 02:25 PM
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What do you expect people are going to do, if some of these self anointed OLED Nostradamuses do not keep hijacking every OLED discussion to warn against people getting their hopes up?

All that constant useless blather will have no effect what so ever on how OLED production proceeds or not, or what consumers will decide to do about purchasing them or not. People who read this site do not need to have some nannies constantly hectoring them, like they are kids crossing the street for the first time. Give it a rest please.
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post #197 of 862 Old 01-10-2012, 03:07 PM
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This is one of the best high resolution video clips I have come across so far of the LG unit. It is in 720P.

The camera man was getting jostled and blocked by the horde of other photographers, but in between he did capture some very good shots of the unit showing it display images in motion. He would have done better to just have edited out the parts where he was not able to aim at the screen, but never the less, it is very worth while watching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BclXZoRJENA


Has anyone come across any video that shows how the set handles a mostly white image? I am just curious to see how bright it can be.
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post #198 of 862 Old 01-10-2012, 04:12 PM
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So it seems the common theme is that it is not coming because it has been shown but not delivered?

I think the Koreans are guilty as charged, but have you guys been FOLLOWING the DEVELOPMENT in OLED?? Specifically the $ and resources put in (and beyond the Koreans) vs just TALK in the other "promising" tech? In addition the surprising WOLED implementation with IGZO by LG so significantly change the game that I think Sammy is stuck between a rock and a hard place? ie OLED no longer has to be precisely manufactured which is a requirement for RGB OLED.

I'm not gullible after following tech for 30 years. I think 3D is fad. I think CES 2011 is a joke. FWIW I'm skeptical on Sony Crystal TV. But I give credit where I see it instead of relying on convenient historical bias.
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post #199 of 862 Old 01-10-2012, 04:38 PM
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I would never be a buyer of a first-generation big OLED panel, particularly at stratospheric prices, unless I was confident that the lifetime and unequal RGB wear issues had *really* been solved. I don't think anyone will know for sure until the first-generation panels have been in the field for a few years. Neither LG nor Samsung's track records regarding quality and reliability give me much hope regarding these issues.
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post #200 of 862 Old 01-10-2012, 05:03 PM
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That is no different than how most people approach the first generation of any technology. Most people let the deep pockets early adopters be the guinea pigs.

As for LG reliability. I have had good fortune with a couple of their TV displays, and have been very pleased with their excellent user friendly CMS suite. I would not be afraid to purchase one of their OLED displays, once the early adopters have provided feedback for them to fix the bugs that are sure to crop up in the first generation, and after the price reaches a level that will not sticker shock me to near financial death.
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post #201 of 862 Old 01-10-2012, 09:58 PM
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[ flamesuit]

So I haven't spent time with the Samsung OLED yet, but I spent a good, long while with the LG. Let's dispense with the preliminaries, it's ridiculously thin and the bezel is teeny. If they bring a TV to market with that design, it will have to be wall-mount only. I doubt there was a single person at CES who couldn't have snapped the screen by holding opposite corners and pulling. I would find an extra 3-6mm and build in a magnesium or titanium or whatever internal metal backplane and bolt the back panel to that.

LG has a few of the displays showing 3-D. LG is, as many know, a support of passive 3-D. The result was that the resolution of the 3-D demos was noticeably compromised. That said, the "3-Dness" was stunning. I'm yet to see a 3-D demo that has the kind of depth the OLED had. I suspect this is because of the fantastic bright-room contrast of the display. High contrast increases the apparent depth of the image and the result was apparent in the 3-D demos.

Now, the rest of the story is that the other displays were showing 2-D, and the classic kind of trade-show demo material that is designed to impress you -- nightscapes, nature scenes, etc. So it was a nice picture. Was it really that much better than the Sharp Elite? Let's put it this way, I have no doubt that the production set will look very nice at retail next to the very best displays on the market. If, however, the production model is not significantly better than what was shown at CES, I suspect most people are going to haven an experience like this:

"Wow, that's thin."
"Oh, it's one of those new OLEDs."
"It looks good."
[pause as they glance at pricetag]
"What the f@#$()@)#($@)#$(@#$)(!"

LG was willing to commit to the retail price coming in below $15,000. Yes, you read that right. The part where I kept guessing it would be $9999 and I couldn't get anyone to commit to "below $10,000" was, um, telling.

The part where I don't believe this particular model is really going to blow people away is true irrespective of the price. And I will reiterate a theme I've been sharing here for months: Even if they do improve this TV and it's the absolute best TV on the market, the gap between it and the second best TV on the market is going to be more like the distance between your hands when you hold your arms straight out and face your palms at one another. This is as opposed to the distance when you extend your arms from your sides and measure that gap.

People looking for the former are going to be caught somewhere between "wishful thinking" and the "hype machine". Essentially, the challenge is going to be to start the lower price --> more production --> lower price cycle as soon as possible because bottom line is this is incremental picture quality improvement and needs to command nothing more than incremental retail pricing.

My guess is that will happen over a 24-36 month period from introduction and will occur in a series of fairly dramatic price declines. I still see significant risk here in this strategy, but I believe LG -- at least -- has a very clear path to high yields. Insidiously, the more successful they are, the lower the prices will be for LEDs... and therefore the lower the BOM for LCD TVs. So the better everyone gets at OLED, the cheaper LED LCDs will be.

[ /flamesuit]

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #202 of 862 Old 01-10-2012, 11:53 PM
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Another video.


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post #203 of 862 Old 01-11-2012, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

This is one of the best high resolution video clips I have come across so far of the LG unit. It is in 720P.

The camera man was getting jostled and blocked by the horde of other photographers, but in between he did capture some very good shots of the unit showing it display images in motion. He would have done better to just have edited out the parts where he was not able to aim at the screen, but never the less, it is very worth while watching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BclXZoRJENA

Is it just me, or does it handle reflections very well despite being somehwat glossy?
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post #204 of 862 Old 01-11-2012, 05:49 AM
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Thanks Rogo for the report. Much appreciated.

I am sure it is a nice set and I am with you on the price. Many here stating $5k etc and I stated once I believe $10k up.

It is also hard to take a jump on the first gen of anything. I remember by first blu-ray player. Waiting sometimes sucks but in this case may be best.

If you could get a report on the Samsung it would be appreciated.

Have fun!!

Rick

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post #205 of 862 Old 01-11-2012, 07:12 AM
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This is just LG playing chicken with Samsung at CES.

Zero chance either want to tell the other how much it costs to make one NOW, how much they are willing to lose on each set NOW untill mass production ramps up.

This is nothing more then another Microsoft Xbox 360 / Sony PS3 pricing war. With fients and miss-information coming from both camps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

[ flamesuit]
LG was willing to commit to the retail price coming in below $15,000. Yes, you read that right. The part where I kept guessing it would be $9999 and I couldn't get anyone to commit to "below $10,000" was, um, telling.
[ /flamesuit]


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post #206 of 862 Old 01-11-2012, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

[ flamesuit]
If, however, the production model is not significantly better than what was shown at CES,
[ /flamesuit]

Flamesuit? You sound positively giddy compared to your report on LG's OLED last year

One question, can you explain how it can be significantly better? What was missing?

or are you saying that it is impossible for a television to be significantly better than current top of the line LCD's?
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post #207 of 862 Old 01-11-2012, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post

Flamesuit? You sound positively giddy compared to your report on LG's OLED last year

Slacker, the 31" prototype they showed last year was dreadful. This at least looked rich and sharp and good.
Quote:


One question, can you explain how it can be significantly better? What was missing?

For something with "infinite contrast" there were times when it didn't look amazingly contrasty. It looked very black on the blacks, but it didn't actually look that contrasty. The colors are absolutely not breathtaking at this point. And honestly, maybe with their WOLED method, they won't be.

Some of the sample material was either bad or the TV was actually false contouring on some of it. Again, this is all early and I don't want to claim this is how the production model would look. But this demo is not one of those moments where you walk ago going, "That is hands down the best video reproduction I've ever seen." I think people doing that are wanting to believe it rather than actually seeing it.
Quote:


or are you saying that it is impossible for a television to be significantly better than current top of the line LCD's?

No, although I do believe that we have something of a problem where we're already watching Roger Federer and Usain Bolt. When Federer was at his peak, we wondered if this is as good as tennis gets. Turns out Nadal and maybe Djokovic are his equal and in some ways better. There is a bit of room for even more greatness there, to be sure, but let's be clear, we've already seen greatness.

Bolt? He may be close to the limits of what's possible. I suspect the Sharp Elite is more Rafa Nadal and less Usain Bolt. But it's not (assuming it's color fix ever ships), Andy Roddick. In other words, it already offers five-figure real world contrast, excellent color reproduction (and Samsung's $2500 plasma offers "reference color"), full-resolution motion handling, etc. So while I absolutely believe there is room for improvement, I think it's naive to believe there is room for an order of magnitude improvement.

My suspicion is most laypeople would have a tough time really finding a Sharp Elite that much better than a 6000 series Samsung LCD. And I suspect the OLED vs. Sharp Elite is going to be a similar gap once it's out there. That's assuming the shipping product is better than the prototype. More on the Samsung later; I'm heading over in a bit.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #208 of 862 Old 01-11-2012, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post



If, however, the production model is not significantly better than what was shown at CES, I suspect most people are going to haven an experience like this:

"Wow, that's thin."
"Oh, it's one of those new OLEDs."
"It looks good."
[pause as they glance at pricetag]
"What the f@#$()@)#($@)#$(@#$)(!"

LG was willing to commit to the retail price coming in below $15,000.

[ /flamesuit]

Rogo, thanks for the report.

I am now starting to believe that OLED might never be able to enter a healthy cycle and it might not be the next generation FPD tech I am hoping for.

What is the power consumption for this 55" OLED set?

HDPLEX
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post #209 of 862 Old 01-11-2012, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

No, although I do believe that we have something of a problem where we're already watching Roger Federer and Usain Bolt. When Federer was at his peak, we wondered if this is as good as tennis gets. Turns out Nadal and maybe Djokovic are his equal and in some ways better. There is a bit of room for even more greatness there, to be sure, but let's be clear, we've already seen greatness.

Bolt? He may be close to the limits of what's possible. I suspect the Sharp Elite is more Rafa Nadal and less Usain Bolt. But it's not (assuming it's color fix ever ships), Andy Roddick.

Rogo is channeling Dennis Miller. Please make it stop.
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post #210 of 862 Old 01-11-2012, 10:13 AM
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At least you can finally buy an OLED TV this year. It's going to be nice to see.
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Reply Flat Panels General and OLED Technology

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Led Hdtv , Displays , Samsung Bd C8000 1080p 3d Blu Ray Disc Player , Sony , Pioneer
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