Can the new LCDs touch plasma for gaming? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 23 Old 01-26-2012, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
p95loser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am deep into researching for a new tv buy and have become thoroughly confused. I mainly want this tv to play Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 online. I currently have a 2008 model Panasonic 50" plasma (model th-50px80u) that works really well for my gaming.

I would consider myself a semi-hardcore gamer that would definately be able to notice motion blur or input lag (i sit 7 feet away while gaming). I was looking at the Panasonic 55" (the largest that will fit in my entertainment center) ST30 or GT30. I like the looks of this tv ok at the stores but the samsung 55" led un55d6400 looks way better to me. Its as if the moving images look so real you could touch. I am worried about the lcd when gaming though.

What technology "rules the roost" when it comes to gaming and also are there any recommended tvs?
p95loser is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 Old 01-26-2012, 11:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Reefdvr27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cape May, NJ
Posts: 2,143
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 272
I thought it was the other way around? Just because of burn in? I am not suggesting this set, but I bought my son a Vizio XVT37 series and he lives on MW3. I read it was a good TV for gammers at the time. I originally bought him a Plasma, but took it back and then ordered this set on the good feedback for Video games!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9RCc2dVPCM
Reefdvr27 is online now  
post #3 of 23 Old 01-26-2012, 11:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
WaveBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 35
I'll never understand why some people think 'Plasma's' are better than LCD/LED's for gaming because that just isn't true. Both tech's have their tradeoffs. and based on my experience, I'm LCD/LED all the way. Why? because they boast such an incredibly bright picture, with bright beautiful pure whites, and produce a cleaner/crisper and sharper picture and the colors look like they're about to leap off the screen, and you get this great pop. Overall you get a much more stunning picture for those super colorful titles.

On plasma however, while you can expect greater contrast ratio's from the higher end models and superior motion(Then again, you also get that nasty dithering effect) the rest however jus doesn't quite compare. Plasma's arent nearly as bright, they're not as clean, crisp or sharp looking due to the inherent video noise i'm guessing ect and they just produce a bit of a duller semi-flatish picture. And games that run in 30 frames per second creat this nasty motion doubleing effect when you're zipping the in game camera around for ex. Plasma's look dull in comparison gaming wise. Yet for movies, it's plasma for me all the way. :P

Super OLED will be the ultimate TV for everything. Virtually no motion blur and ridiculous contrast ratio's basically fix LCD's 2 main problems. For now, you've got to deal with the trade off's.
WaveBoy is offline  
post #4 of 23 Old 01-26-2012, 12:30 PM
Member
 
Lord Humongous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
AFAIK most plasmas can not display chroma 4:4:4 so its no wonder the image is blurry. Dont blame the display technology for onboard processing shortcomings.
Lord Humongous is offline  
post #5 of 23 Old 01-26-2012, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
p95loser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Motion is the big kicker for me. I play multiplayer FPS, where the entire background moves and a fast pace when turning. I need to be able to turn, quickly identify the opponent from the background, perhaps lead the target if he is running, and fire all in a split second.

My question is are there lcd/led tvs out there that can handle this while maintaining a smooth motion with low blur? I have a 32" sharp aquos 720p in my bedroom that is awful to play on.
p95loser is offline  
post #6 of 23 Old 01-26-2012, 02:43 PM
Member
 
karlmalone1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Well plasmas have shorter input lag (response time), so that's where the notion of plasmas being better at gaming. Burn-in is relatively a non issue anymore, so that's not a huge point. Plasmas will be better at twitchy FPS, such as what you're interested in, though it's not like Led/Lcd is particularly bad at that. And the motion will be superior on the plasma, though the led/lcd that you're looking at is going to be miles ahead of your aquos. For what it's worth, I used to have a plasma and currently have an led/lcd, and the plasma did seem to play Halo a tad smoother/quicker with better response vs. my led, but not to any great degree. The differences aren't monumental, though if I were purchasing a tv solely for gaming, especially shooting games, i'd opt for a plasma.
karlmalone1 is offline  
post #7 of 23 Old 01-26-2012, 04:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 186
I have a 42" LG CCFL-LCD (42LK450) with a S-IPS panel that is great for gaming with no noticeable motion blur or input lag while gaming. I also own a 2008 Panasonic plasma so I'm familiar with both technologies and both are great for gaming.
PlasmaPZ80U is offline  
post #8 of 23 Old 01-26-2012, 11:47 PM
KOF
Advanced Member
 
KOF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 87
When I first bought Sony Bravia W3500 in 2007, I liked everything about it...except for response time, so I returned it.

Now I got to try an LG plasma last year and frankly, I'm never going back to LCD. Now, I'm too anal when it comes to response time so YMMB, but frankly, to reduce motion blur on LCD, you need frame interpolation and what does it increase? Input lag, so that's a big no-no.

Even with 30fps judder penalty, that plasma simply slaughtered every LCDs I've seen including 120hz TN when it came to motion blur because I could actually see those imperfections on plasma whereas on LCDs, the motion jittered like framerates get halved. Even so, it was still a no match for my CRT display.

Exactly the reason OLEDs do not excite me at all. I've played with my brother's Galaxy S2 HD and frankly, other than impressive contrast, response time was a let down compared with my plasma. I need a closest replacement for my CRT and only plasma fits the bill.

Now, I agree that plasma's APL and dim luminance is a deal breaker when it comes to non-realistic games which can actually benefit from high gamut. I would be at least satisfied if plasma's whites were on par with CRTs, but it's not. Combine it with APL and picture pops less and becomes less exciting in comparison with CRTs let alone LCDs. Dithering was less of an issue with LG plasmas, but their lower end models do exhibit motion dithering. Black tweaks improved APL but I do agree plasmas could be brighter.
KOF is offline  
post #9 of 23 Old 01-27-2012, 12:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
WaveBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I have a 42" LG CCFL-LCD (42LK450) with a S-IPS panel that is great for gaming with no noticeable motion blur or input lag while gaming. I also own a 2008 Panasonic plasma so I'm familiar with both technologies and both are great for gaming.

All LCD's have noticable motion blur. lol What the hell...Sure this particular set is great for an 'LCD' in the motion department, but it still doesn't touch a plasma, while a plasma still isn't quite as good as a CRT(CRT's are perfect in the motion department, without that nasty Plasma dithering effect, so the motion resolution/detail s flawless and perfectly intact...I'm guessing Super OLED will be the first tech to match this, hopefully!)

As for the LK450....If i were to blast in a first or 3rd person title...Hmmm, lets say Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime 3 or Bioshock for ex. Now when you spin/rotate/move(whatever) the camera either left or right up or down for ex the environment detail takes a hit and all of the motion detail is blurred. Uncharted 2 was horrible when spinning the camera around. It was like a VHS tape on a crack bringe.....LCD's only LOOK perfect when static. Once things start moving detail becomes slightly blurred especially for first and 3rd person titles or anything with constant camera zipping. Sidescrolles and platformers fair alot better. Super Mario Galaxy, Wario Land Shake it just to name a few work wonderfully.

Anyways, CRT is the only tech that looks 'perfect' when it motion, but what does it matter when you're missing out on HD, Progressive scan(some models 'do' have PS, but they're rare) HDMI and Widescreen(Ya i realise there are a few Widescreen displays that do support 1080i but they're too small in screen size at least for me anyways)...Besides, CRT is dead. I still have one rocking for my Retro(NES and SNES) consoles of course, since they're a must!

Plain and simple, YES there is noticable blur...it's the only downside of the LK450 and every other LCD in the world as it's inherent to the technology and the only real flaw imo. Plus my set has clouding, and ignites a bit of light out the back when watching movies, but hey that's just 'my' set. Yay. As for the input lag, i can only comment on the VA panels. And the input lag is VERY low for NONE HD based systems like the Wii. I can still notice it especially for wii pointer based games. It doesn't exactly feel like there is lag going on, but it's clearly evident in comparison to my CRT which i constantly compared. Throw in a PS3/XBOX 360 game via HDMI and the input lag is pretty weak....I'm assuming the ISP panels are better, too bad it's just one massive LG Panel lottery.

Anyways, I love the ultra bright, super clear, clean and crisp image and pure whites for gaming, along with the amazing vivid colors you can achieve in Expert mode especially. And props to LG for giving us an EXPERT mode on lower end sets in comparison to Panasonic and Samsung who don't. That aside, because of the motion handeling, it makes movies(at times) a bit artificial, and somewhat distracting to look at. Plasma is IDEAL for film....But i cant constantly switch between two tvs so i have to stick with one.

Super OLED will fix all of these problems once and for all. Too bad you'll have to pay an arm & a leg for the Samsung 55" Super OLED this year.....It will be rocking at $8000-$10,000.
I for one 'want' a 55" LED HDTV before the Wii U hits in NOV this year....Super OLED would be absolutely amazing, but $8000? Yikes!
WaveBoy is offline  
post #10 of 23 Old 01-27-2012, 03:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post


All LCD's have noticable motion blur. lol What the hell...Sure this particular set is great for an 'LCD' in the motion department, but it still doesn't touch a plasma, while a plasma still isn't quite as good as a CRT(CRT's are perfect in the motion department, without that nasty Plasma dithering effect, so the motion resolution/detail s flawless and perfectly intact...I'm guessing Super OLED will be the first tech to match this, hopefully!)

As for the LK450....If i were to blast in a first or 3rd person title...Hmmm, lets say Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime 3 or Bioshock for ex. Now when you spin/rotate/move(whatever) the camera either left or right up or down for ex the environment detail takes a hit and all of the motion detail is blurred. Uncharted 2 was horrible when spinning the camera around. It was like a VHS tape on a crack bringe.....LCD's only LOOK perfect when static. Once things start moving detail becomes slightly blurred especially for first and 3rd person titles or anything with constant camera zipping. Sidescrolles and platformers fair alot better. Super Mario Galaxy, Wario Land Shake it just to name a few work wonderfully.

Anyways, CRT is the only tech that looks 'perfect' when it motion, but what does it matter when you're missing out on HD, Progressive scan(some models 'do' have PS, but they're rare) HDMI and Widescreen(Ya i realise there are a few Widescreen displays that do support 1080i but they're too small in screen size at least for me anyways)...Besides, CRT is dead. I still have one rocking for my Retro(NES and SNES) consoles of course, since they're a must!

Plain and simple, YES there is noticable blur...it's the only downside of the LK450 and every other LCD in the world as it's inherent to the technology and the only real flaw imo. Plus my set has clouding, and ignites a bit of light out the back when watching movies, but hey that's just 'my' set. Yay. As for the input lag, i can only comment on the VA panels. And the input lag is VERY low for NONE HD based systems like the Wii. I can still notice it especially for wii pointer based games. It doesn't exactly feel like there is lag going on, but it's clearly evident in comparison to my CRT which i constantly compared. Throw in a PS3/XBOX 360 game via HDMI and the input lag is pretty weak....I'm assuming the ISP panels are better, too bad it's just one massive LG Panel lottery.

Anyways, I love the ultra bright, super clear, clean and crisp image and pure whites for gaming, along with the amazing vivid colors you can achieve in Expert mode especially. And props to LG for giving us an EXPERT mode on lower end sets in comparison to Panasonic and Samsung who don't. That aside, because of the motion handeling, it makes movies(at times) a bit artificial, and somewhat distracting to look at. Plasma is IDEAL for film....But i cant constantly switch between two tvs so i have to stick with one.

Super OLED will fix all of these problems once and for all. Too bad you'll have to pay an arm & a leg for the Samsung 55" Super OLED this year.....It will be rocking at $8000-$10,000.
I for one 'want' a 55" LED HDTV before the Wii U hits in NOV this year....Super OLED would be absolutely amazing, but $8000? Yikes!

The games I play run at 60 fps, and I don't see any motion blur. I do see it on TV programs running at 30 fps and movies at 24 fps. If there is motion blur with 60 fps games, I simply don't notice it and I own a plasma so if the LCD had noticeable motion blur with 60 fps content, I would see it.

CNET rates motion resolution at 300 lines max for the 42LK450 (S-IPS panel) and 900 lines max for my 2008 Panasonic plasma (TH-42PZ80U). However, they do mention the difference is very hard to see with actual program material regardless of whether motion resolution is 300, 600, 900, or a perfect 1080.

Your VA panel might be why you're having issues with motion.
PlasmaPZ80U is offline  
post #11 of 23 Old 01-27-2012, 05:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
WaveBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Well, the difference between my 2011 plasma and my LK450 motion-wise is practically night and day. Again, the plasma isn't perfect, but there's only some slight blurring when the camera is zipped around in a videogame coupled with that ugly dithering effect.

But i guess some people are less sesnsitive to it. I'm 'very' sensitive and the day HDTV's can deliver CRT-motion performance i'll be in heaven. Super OLED will basically be thee' answer hehe.

Also, do you notice that nasty double image-motion effect when playing 30fps games on a PLasma? LCD's don't seem to have this at all. Blurring does seem a bit worse though for 30fps titles on an LCD, i could be wrong as i haven't played enough 30fps titles...But it 'does' seem to be the case. Motion detail is pratically blurred VHS-style when turning or whatever in first or 3rd person titles on the PS3....It gives off an effect as if you're running the game through Composite cables, plus these titles were also 30fps. when an LCD is static for these HD titles it looks gorgeous, zip the camera over a detailed wall and everything on that wall becomes blurred.

Anyways, i wonder what the lag measurements are for the ISP and VA LK450 panels?...Why is it that PS3 games perform worse than my Wii? I'm guessing it must be that extra shnazzy HD video processing going on.
WaveBoy is offline  
post #12 of 23 Old 01-27-2012, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
p95loser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well after 4 or 5 visits to various retailers, I pulled the trigger tonight. I bought a Panasonic TC-P55ST30. Stupid thing was too tall to fit in my expedition so I am bringing the pickup tomorrow...
p95loser is offline  
post #13 of 23 Old 01-27-2012, 09:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
WaveBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by p95loser View Post

Well after 4 or 5 visits to various retailers, I pulled the trigger tonight. I bought a Panasonic TC-P55ST30. Stupid thing was too tall to fit in my expedition so I am bringing the pickup tomorrow...

Oh man, that's got to be absolutely killer for movies...Want to trade with my LG LK450? lol Nahhh, if i weren't into gaming i wouldn't even bother with LCD or LED. I'd grab myself a 50-60" Panasonic ST30 3D Plasma and be done with it until the time feels right to upgrade. BTW, your set apperantly rocks an extremely low 16ms of input lag according to HDTVTest.com. tell us how the input lag is when ya get around to it bud!
WaveBoy is offline  
post #14 of 23 Old 01-27-2012, 09:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
PENDRAG0ON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 547
LCD's inherent blur hides most of the 30fps judder, which is actually a very nice side effect of an otherwise nasty flaw. Plasma with a 60fps game is an eye opener if all you have used is LCD (or haven't gamed on a plasma in a while) If you are playing mostly shooters online, then plasma is your best bet, especially a Panasonic Plasma with their insanely low lag. With Plasma though, you do have dither up close (has improved greatly in recent years) and you also have the auto brightness limiter (an old power saving method that would have been gone by now if not for the Energy Star race...)

Sadly HDTVs today are a pick your poison decision, hopefully OLED will change that.

PSN - Pendragoongp
NNID - Pendragoon
Include your AVS username in the friend request.
PENDRAG0ON is online now  
post #15 of 23 Old 01-27-2012, 10:45 PM
Member
 
JoshZH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
30fps ghosting annoys the hell out of me(add phosphor trailing on top on that).
Considering 90% of console games are running at 25-30 fps and my PC can not keep 60 fps all the time in new games, plasma is out for me. BUT, if you have i7 and a monster VC, you HAVE to get plasma. You wouldn't believe your eyes and will probably just stay and spin camera around for minutes.

Dithering could be annoying, too, but not as others "features".
JoshZH is offline  
post #16 of 23 Old 01-28-2012, 02:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
WaveBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

LCD's inherent blur hides most of the 30fps judder, which is actually a very nice side effect of an otherwise nasty flaw. Plasma with a 60fps game is an eye opener if all you have used is LCD (or haven't gamed on a plasma in a while) If you are playing mostly shooters online, then plasma is your best bet, especially a Panasonic Plasma with their insanely low lag. With Plasma though, you do have dither up close (has improved greatly in recent years) and you also have the auto brightness limiter (an old power saving method that would have been gone by now if not for the Energy Star race...)

Sadly HDTVs today are a pick your poison decision, hopefully OLED will change that.

Man, I wish 60fps would be the standard for the Wii U, PS4 and XBOX720 but i doubt that will be the case. It's usually a mixed bag.
Anyways, so do LCD's blur worse when playing a 30fps game even though it's hiding that ugly doubling flaw in the process? I swear the Blurring in the Uncharted 2 demo looked horribly bad when swinging the camera around in circles compared to 60fps titles.

And i agree, I'm no shooter fan by anymeans but for those that are, are best off with a plasma. Still, you're not going to get a picture quite as clean, crisp or clear, not to mention as bright obviously, but you'll get superior motion in return and usually better contrast/black levels. Ugh, Bloody trade offs. I wish my HDTV would magically turn into a plasma for when i want to watch movies, and then turn back into an LCD/LED when i wan't to game.

And i HATE the auto brightness dimmers on Plasma's...They should have an ON/OFF switch for it in the main menu. But apperantly you have to crack into the service menu to disable it, if you even can.
WaveBoy is offline  
post #17 of 23 Old 01-28-2012, 08:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Chronoptimist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

LCD's inherent blur hides most of the 30fps judder, which is actually a very nice side effect of an otherwise nasty flaw.

It's just as visible a problem on my LCD (HX900) as it is with any Plasma or CRT. That's why I've stopped playing console games and moved to a PC, where everything can be locked to 60fps.

Personally I find Plasma "phosphor lag" to be a far bigger problem than any LCD motion blur:


These are really bad quality photos (bad colour from high ISO etc.) but I just loaded up my most recent Skyrim save, spun the camera around as quickly as possible and took some photos at 1/125s:



I just realised that I should have taken a photo standing still to show the difference, but you can see that fine details are still in focus. There is definitely some motion blur there (there will be on any display) but this is with modified controls on the PC, as the game's standard settings weren't quick enough for me. Hopefully your PC can play this back at full speed (60fps) to give you an idea of how fast the camera was actually spinning:

(it's the camera blurring the image there, not the display, as I lose control over the shutter speed when shooting video)

This is far faster motion than you ever experience when actually playing a game, and those are photos from the TV in game mode, not film mode which uses backlight scanning and interpolation to improve motion sharpness quite a bit more. We are far away from the days when LCDs used to completely blur the image and smear details with fast motion. You don't have the old problem where the image "snaps into focus" as soon as you stand still and stop looking around.

The best LCD TVs are in the 20-30ms range (my HX900 is around 33ms) and the best Plasmas are around 17ms. One frame at 60Hz is not a huge difference as far as lag is concerned. (many controllers introduce more of a delay than that)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Plasma with a 60fps game is an eye opener if all you have used is LCD (or haven't gamed on a plasma in a while) If you are playing mostly shooters online, then plasma is your best bet, especially a Panasonic Plasma with their insanely low lag.

Online gaming depends far more on who is hosting the game, and your distance from them than anything else. A 16ms difference is only going to come into play in LAN gaming.


I wouldn't consider a Plasma suitable for gaming if you spend any length of time, due to image retention, even if you don't notice phosphor lag.
As someone else also said, many Plasmas don't support 4:4:4 chroma which blurs details in games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Even with 30fps judder penalty, that plasma simply slaughtered every LCDs I've seen including 120hz TN when it came to motion blur because I could actually see those imperfections on plasma whereas on LCDs, the motion jittered like framerates get halved. Even so, it was still a no match for my CRT display.

This sounds like you weren't feeding the display a smooth framerate. There's nothing about LCD that would introduce judder other than motion interpolation errors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Anyways, CRT is the only tech that looks 'perfect' when it motion, but what does it matter when you're missing out on HD, Progressive scan(some models 'do' have PS, but they're rare) HDMI and Widescreen

If you can deal with the size, Sony have a 24" widescreen CRT (GDM-FW900) that supports resolutions beyond 1080p. Combine that with an HD Fury (or simply use a PC) and you can hook up just about anything to it.

For me, the size is an issue though. The CRT itself is physically huge, and very heavy, but 24" just doesn't cut it for me any more.

I disagree with you about CRT motion handling. They are far from perfect, though they are better than either LCD or Plasma. Here's a CRT compared to a Plasma:

(the image is a white bar moving at high speed over a black background)

Note the phosphor trailing on the CRT. In some cases, such as this, a modern LCD can actually beat a CRT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Anyways, so do LCD's blur worse when playing a 30fps game even though it's hiding that ugly doubling flaw in the process? I swear the Blurring in the Uncharted 2 demo looked horribly bad when swinging the camera around in circles compared to 60fps titles.

A lot of modern games have a motion blur effect built into them, especially those running at 30fps. The original Uncharted actually had some of the worst motion blur I've ever seen in a modern game, and I don't believe Uncharted 2's was much better.
David_B likes this.
Chronoptimist is offline  
post #18 of 23 Old 01-28-2012, 09:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
8mile13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,676
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy; View Post

I swear the Blurring in the Uncharted 2 demo looked horribly bad when swinging the camera around in circles compared to 60fps titles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist; View Post

The original Uncharted actually had some of the worst motion blur I've ever seen in a modern game, and I don't believe Uncharted 2's was much better.

There is nonstop action in Uncharted2 so there isn't much time to focus on PQ imperfections. Don't see problems when playing games on my xbr8 anyway, do not even use the game button. I play games 2.5 meter distance - don't do First Person Shooters or internet games.
8mile13 is offline  
post #19 of 23 Old 01-28-2012, 09:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
PENDRAG0ON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 547
Even when playing online display lag matters. Every little bit helps.

PSN - Pendragoongp
NNID - Pendragoon
Include your AVS username in the friend request.
PENDRAG0ON is online now  
post #20 of 23 Old 07-21-2012, 10:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
WaveBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 35
SUPER OLED >>>>>>>>>>>> plasma + LCD + LED. XP


I recently got a Panasoni 2012 X5 plasma and i absolutely 'love' it. The brightness is pretty bloody amazing when in 'game' mode(the brightest plasma i've ever seen) The color gamut is phenomenal and the black levels are very very
good. BUT, the 'auto dimming' has destroyed my gaming experiences, it's just BS that i can't turn the bloody thing off. I can't even find the option in the service menu.. I've got this TV covered for movies, but for gaming? This reason alone has putthe nail in the coffin....Thinking of going back to my LK450 LCD, but the motion blur completely puts me off along with it's mediocre black levels.

Ever since i jumped into the 'HDTV' gaming world i've had nothing but problems and frustration. Input lag, motion blur, auto dimming ect. Auto dimming kills the experience for me more than blur.....It's like you have
this gorgeous bright & colorful image. then 10 minutes in, the entire image dims and the colors look washed out...Besides my LK450 has 16ms, even then for motion pointer controls(while great) it stilld doesn't quite compare to
my lag free TUBE CRT. I'm such an anal perfectionist.



LCD Pro's:
Crisp/cleaner image, amazing brightness, pure whites, no auto dimming, No picture glare.
Cons: Motion smearing/blur, clouding, sets off an ugly dismal pissy 'no-glow', ho hum black levels depending. 120hz & 230hz sets introduce more lag.

Plasma Pro's:
Deeper blacks generally, superior motion handeling, natural GLOW,
Cons: Auto dimming.


CRT
Pro's: PERFECT motion handeling, 480i sets are lag free, great blacks & color
Cons: Heavy as hell, bulky. HD sets aren't big enough


I know i'll never find a way to disable the auto dimming on my plasma, so i might as well just suck it up and accept my LCD and enjoy the motion smearing in all of it's glory.lol also boo hoo to image retention. BIG DEAL, it's not even a problem as it goes away
after using the white wash/scroll bar or watching different content. What's the big deal!? lol Burn in is also a thing of the past. Unless you leave your TV on with a static image for maybe over 48 hours. XP'Auto dimming' is the real problem
with plasma.
WaveBoy is offline  
post #21 of 23 Old 07-21-2012, 04:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
whityfrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,574
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

I'll never understand why some people think 'Plasma's' are better than LCD/LED's for gaming because that just isn't true. Both tech's have their tradeoffs. and based on my experience, I'm LCD/LED all the way. Why? because they boast such an incredibly bright picture, with bright beautiful pure whites, and produce a cleaner/crisper and sharper picture and the colors look like they're about to leap off the screen, and you get this great pop. Overall you get a much more stunning picture for those super colorful titles.


On plasma however, while you can expect greater contrast ratio's from the higher end models and superior motion(Then again, you also get that nasty dithering effect) the rest however jus doesn't quite compare. Plasma's arent nearly as bright, they're not as clean, crisp or sharp looking due to the inherent video noise i'm guessing ect and they just produce a bit of a duller semi-flatish picture. And games that run in 30 frames per second creat this nasty motion doubleing effect when you're zipping the in game camera around for ex. Plasma's look dull in comparison gaming wise. Yet for movies, it's plasma for me all the way. :P


Super OLED will be the ultimate TV for everything. Virtually no motion blur and ridiculous contrast ratio's basically fix LCD's 2 main problems. For now, you've got to deal with the trade off's.

Im going to go out on a limb here when i say this. "Youve never owned a plasma". That post is so biased and uninformed i dont know where to begin. I've owned an lcd and led, one panny, kuro (got robbed) and currently on a 58" sammy plasma and in my opinion, lcd/led does not hold up for all gaming. dark games can be especially annoying on these sets. and lcd/led as far as motion goes, has been trying to replicate what plasma has done for years. most of todays plasmas are basically big, flat, thin crts with great pq. lcd/led does have better whites, but the tradeoff for owning an lcd/led is not even an argument. plasma has better color depth, also has a super sharp picture, and just has a more fluid and complete picture overall. not to mention burn in isnt even a problem out of the box anymore from most manufacturers. i understand you like what you bought, but lets not go overboard here.
whityfrd is offline  
post #22 of 23 Old 07-22-2012, 12:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
WaveBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 35
i think it's absolutely hilarious if anyone were to be. XP
I've actually owned 3 plasmas, and 2 lcds. I've currently got a 2012 panasonic plasma and a 2011 LCD.
And I'll take the plasma over the LCD any day of the week. You could give me the most expensive 60" LED
out there and i'd still opt for a 42" 720p Plasma or a 32" Full screen CRT. Hell, i won't watch movies period
on an LED/LCD....They are nasty for film mainly because of the horrible inherent motion smearing, possible clouding, the disgusting
dismal 'no glow' they set off, back light bleeding and typical mediocre contrast ratio/black levels. Still CRT is the king in motion handeling.
i find panasonic 600hz sets to be kind of dissapointing with their motion handeling, miles better than any LED or LCD
but they just don't quite stack up to CRT. Blur is still there, plus there's motion artifacts which is noticable
when gaming. My previous LG plasma beat out my panny plasma in the motion handeling department, but overall
the panny is miles better.i wonder how these new panny 2400hz sets stack up in comparison.

If there's anything i dislike about plasma's it's the bloody auto dimming. eek.gif
WaveBoy is offline  
post #23 of 23 Old 07-22-2012, 02:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
PENDRAG0ON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 547
The auto dimming only gets worse as the size increases. My 70inch Sharp is terribly flawed, but no way would I take a plasma at this size over it. Heck it uses less than 100w of power with my current settings and out does my old Sammy 50inch 720p in brightness even without the dimming. While there is some dark color smearing, the motion performance with 60fps content actually shocked me. It passes my old Ninja Gaiden Sigma spin test even without 120hz enhancement, it is the first LCD I have tested that has passed it. (even when using motion enhancers) Lag is right on my threshold in game mode for being annoying, I can deal with it in most cases though. Overall I have been more than pleased with it and it should hold me over until OLED comes into it's own.

PSN - Pendragoongp
NNID - Pendragoon
Include your AVS username in the friend request.
PENDRAG0ON is online now  
Reply Flat Panels General and OLED Technology

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off