Wanted ST30 for gaming but having second thoughts - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 02-12-2012, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Well due to the picture accuracy, the super low input latency, 3D is nice to have and the price I am pretty set on either the 42 or 46" Panasonic ST30 series, but looking at Bestbuy a lot of the other TV's mostly LED's, even in the price range of the ST30's, looked to have a lot better black levels, the ST30's looked almost gray. Now are my perceptions true the ST30's don't have good black levels or is it just because its Bestbuy and everything is set to super bright and nothing is calibrated?

And no I don't know of any other places to audition TV's. A couple high end places sell them but don't have the ST30's in to look at.
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post #2 of 15 Old 02-12-2012, 07:36 PM
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Plasma black levels get worse the more ambient light is in the room, particularly direct light hitting the surface of the display. They are also generally duller than LCDs.

In a dark room the black level is considerably better than you will have seen on the show floor. (though it's still grey)

The bigger concern with gaming on a Plasma is image retention which is a constant annoyance in my opinion. (whether it becomes permanent or not)
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post #3 of 15 Old 02-13-2012, 02:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Plasma black levels get worse the more ambient light is in the room, particularly direct light hitting the surface of the display. They are also generally duller than LCDs.

In a dark room the black level is considerably better than you will have seen on the show floor. (though it's still grey)

The bigger concern with gaming on a Plasma is image retention which is a constant annoyance in my opinion. (whether it becomes permanent or not)

OMG this whole post is total BS. Plasmas are KNOWN TO HAVE BETTER BLACKS than any LCD/LED out there excluding the new Sharp Elite (which costs north of 4k). Scary if you want some REALFACTS on the ST30 go over to the plasma sub forum and read all about people gaming on plasmas. Maybe LG plasmas are "grey" in a dark room but there is no way in hell an ST is grey in a dark room. Now if you want to see grey blacks buy and LCD. IR is a non factor in plasmas, if it happens it goes away in a matter of minutes watching full screen material.
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post #4 of 15 Old 02-13-2012, 07:23 AM
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An ST30 is going to be far better for gaming than any led even close to the price range. It really isn't even a contest.
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post #5 of 15 Old 02-13-2012, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah I'm not worried about IR and I know plasmas have better blacks because they are not back lit like LCD's, the plasma itself makes the lite (also why they use more power). I was just saying what I observed at Bestbuy. At first I realized the ST30's were next to $2500 LCD's so I compared them to LCD's under $1000 and they still seemed to not have as good of blacks. The ST30's seemed a little bit duller but had better color and uniformity but I was worried about the blacks but it could very well be that there is a lot of light in there shinning on them.

My bestfriends parents have the 50" S30 and it looks beautiful but I have nothing to compare it to side by side.
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post #6 of 15 Old 02-13-2012, 05:29 PM
 
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Unless you found the remote and put the settings in that would adjust the picture to the enviroment you can not make a judgement one way or the other. Stores like BB have been known to make some TVS ****** looking while next to TV's that they have their biggest margin on to sell more of them. If your BB has a Magnolia in it that would be the best place to judge TV's.
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post #7 of 15 Old 02-13-2012, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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^ They do but only 3 top of the line $3000+ TV's in there and the speakers are kind of a mess too.
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post #8 of 15 Old 02-19-2012, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post

Well due to the picture accuracy, the super low input latency, 3D is nice to have and the price I am pretty set on either the 42 or 46" Panasonic ST30 series, but looking at Bestbuy a lot of the other TV's mostly LED's, even in the price range of the ST30's, looked to have a lot better black levels, the ST30's looked almost gray. Now are my perceptions true the ST30's don't have good black levels or is it just because its Bestbuy and everything is set to super bright and nothing is calibrated?

And no I don't know of any other places to audition TV's. A couple high end places sell them but don't have the ST30's in to look at.

Panasonics have decent blacks but have the floating black issue that is somewhat like blooming on CRT and flashlighting/blooming on LED LCD. When a bright scene is on the screen, the black areas lighten up, but darkens back when the screen's bright scene goes a way.

Image Retention (IR) is real and I found it to be terrible on the newer sets. I honestly can't see how someone can look past this when you can see 'previous' static images, clearly on a solid color area. Maybe some individual sets are better at getting rid of IR but I know that LG and Zenith have it where it's very noticeable and have heard the same about Samsung and Panasonic. In fact I found a lot of problems with plasma that the plasma pushers will not mention or ignore, that offer far worse performance than LED LCDs. Then again, Plasmas are cheaper. LED LCDs have their issues of off center viewing but getting an IPS panel alleviates that problem. Clouding in LEDs can also be alleviated with a local dimming feature. Black level darkness can be very good with local dimming as well. Flashlighting/blooming is a side affect of local dimming but it's rare and minimal when it does happen.

With bright light, I haven't noticed the panasonics black areas washing out but I have noticed the picture is really dim, making the entire picture dull and low in contrast. Add that with it's super reflective screen, and the picture 'at times', can be unwatchable compared to a LED LCD with a matte screen.

I just set up a buddies 50ST30 that we bought together. It's a nice TV for a cheaper price and it does look good in a dim room with few window or lamps. The downsides are the reflective screen, low brightness output, inferior active (shudder) 3D, and the plasma tech. performance anomalies (brightness strobing/flickering, image retention). Some find the performance of plasma better, I found the performance of LED LCD w/local dimming better. It's a personal choice.

Each set should be judged on it's own merit. I have found better black levels on LED LCD w/local dimming than on Plasma TVs though, but each set needs to be individually judged on it's own performance because technology doesn't alway judge the better. There are better LED LCD TVs out there as well as better Plasma TVs out there.

I know I really like the LG LED LCDs but the Panny ST30 is a very good TV as well.

Good luck, just make sure you get a good, no restock fee, return policy with your purchase.
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post #9 of 15 Old 02-19-2012, 01:17 PM
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Fluctuating brightness is fixed on Panasonic sets and if you have terrible IR that doesn't go away after a short time, your set is likely defective.
Panasonic don't have "decent blacks", they have superior blacks to led sets other than the Sharp Elite. Calling the 3d inferior is equally ridiculous.
There was so much factually wrong with that it made my head spin.
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post #10 of 15 Old 02-19-2012, 01:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolMETAL View Post

Panasonics have decent blacks but have the floating black issue that is somewhat like blooming on CRT and flashlighting/blooming on LED LCD. When a bright scene is on the screen, the black areas lighten up, but darkens back when the screen's bright scene goes a way.

Image Retention (IR) is real and I found it to be terrible on the newer sets. I honestly can't see how someone can look past this when you can see 'previous' static images, clearly on a solid color area. Maybe some individual sets are better at getting rid of IR but I know that LG and Zenith have it where it's very noticeable and have heard the same about Samsung and Panasonic. In fact I found a lot of problems with plasma that the plasma pushers will not mention or ignore, that offer far worse performance than LED LCDs. Then again, Plasmas are cheaper. LED LCDs have their issues of off center viewing but getting an IPS panel alleviates that problem. Clouding in LEDs can also be alleviated with a local dimming feature. Black level darkness can be very good with local dimming as well. Flashlighting/blooming is a side affect of local dimming but it's rare and minimal when it does happen.

With bright light, I haven't noticed the panasonics black areas washing out but I have noticed the picture is really dim, making the entire picture dull and low in contrast. Add that with it's super reflective screen, and the picture 'at times', can be unwatchable compared to a LED LCD with a matte screen.

I just set up a buddies 50ST30 that we bought together. It's a nice TV for a cheaper price and it does look good in a dim room with few window or lamps. The downsides are the reflective screen, low brightness output, inferior active (shudder) 3D, and the plasma tech. performance anomalies (brightness strobing/flickering, image retention). Some find the performance of plasma better, I found the performance of LED LCD w/local dimming better. It's a personal choice.

Each set should be judged on it's own merit. I have found better black levels on LED LCD w/local dimming than on Plasma TVs though, but each set needs to be individually judged on it's own performance because technology doesn't alway judge the better. There are better LED LCD TVs out there as well as better Plasma TVs out there.

I know I really like the LG LED LCDs but the Panny ST30 is a very good TV as well.

Good luck, just make sure you get a good, no restock fee, return policy with your purchase.

So many factual errors with this post that I dont know if I have the time to correct them all.

Floating blacks = ELIMINATED in the 2011 year models (those were introduced 1 year ago) so you are WRONG!

IR = common sense eliminates it! Dont have your plasma on torch mode like LCD's. Vary your content and gaming in the first few hundred hours! Like I said COMMON SENSE!

Clouding/flash lighting can be eliminated? Damn you better tell the thousands that have posted about it and returning sets because of it then

Super reflective screen? LMFAO yeah thats why there is an anti reflective coating on the panel. I have not seen one post saying the ST, GT, or VT series of Panasonic has a "super reflective panel"

Inferior 3D????? LMFAO again. You need to read up on it then if you think its inferior.

Decent blacks? Whats the black level measure on your LCD? Measured by a professional that is. IIRC the ST30 measured .008. I bet your LCD isnt that low since the only LED LCD to beat the black levels of a plasma is the Sharp Elite at a MSRP of over 4k

I can get a 55" ST30 delivered for just over $1100 right now what LCD is going to compete with that???? I'll tell you which one NONE!!!!!!
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post #11 of 15 Old 02-19-2012, 02:57 PM
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About the whole image retention-permanent burn in thing on plasma. I have a recent 60 inch lg plasma and i gotta say i don't worry about burn in or static images on it at all. I just watch tv on it and play video games on it. I don't have any issues at all with it. Just don't leave your plasma paused on a tv channel for hours at a time and you'll be fine.
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post #12 of 15 Old 02-19-2012, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolMETAL View Post

Panasonics have decent blacks but have the floating black issue that is somewhat like blooming on CRT and flashlighting/blooming on LED LCD. When a bright scene is on the screen, the black areas lighten up, but darkens back when the screen's bright scene goes a way.

Image Retention (IR) is real and I found it to be terrible on the newer sets. I honestly can't see how someone can look past this when you can see 'previous' static images, clearly on a solid color area. Maybe some individual sets are better at getting rid of IR but I know that LG and Zenith have it where it's very noticeable and have heard the same about Samsung and Panasonic. In fact I found a lot of problems with plasma that the plasma pushers will not mention or ignore, that offer far worse performance than LED LCDs. Then again, Plasmas are cheaper. LED LCDs have their issues of off center viewing but getting an IPS panel alleviates that problem. Clouding in LEDs can also be alleviated with a local dimming feature. Black level darkness can be very good with local dimming as well. Flashlighting/blooming is a side affect of local dimming but it's rare and minimal when it does happen.

With bright light, I haven't noticed the panasonics black areas washing out but I have noticed the picture is really dim, making the entire picture dull and low in contrast. Add that with it's super reflective screen, and the picture 'at times', can be unwatchable compared to a LED LCD with a matte screen.

I just set up a buddies 50ST30 that we bought together. It's a nice TV for a cheaper price and it does look good in a dim room with few window or lamps. The downsides are the reflective screen, low brightness output, inferior active (shudder) 3D, and the plasma tech. performance anomalies (brightness strobing/flickering, image retention). Some find the performance of plasma better, I found the performance of LED LCD w/local dimming better. It's a personal choice.

Each set should be judged on it's own merit. I have found better black levels on LED LCD w/local dimming than on Plasma TVs though, but each set needs to be individually judged on it's own performance because technology doesn't alway judge the better. There are better LED LCD TVs out there as well as better Plasma TVs out there.

I know I really like the LG LED LCDs but the Panny ST30 is a very good TV as well.

Good luck, just make sure you get a good, no restock fee, return policy with your purchase.

don't know which LG plasma you have, but i have a cheapo 50 inch LG plasma and game on it all the time. i didnt do the break in or anything. fired it up the first day i got it and have ZERO IR problems. the 3d which is active looks much better than my cousins passive 3d set.

as far as black levels, My dad owns a samsung led (i have another post about it), and he's not the super picky type and even he complains about the black levels.

One of my friends has a nice led tv. he talked about the lovely black levels compared to his older lcd. i went over there and he showed me a few scenes. yes they looked black, but one thing he didn't notice is that he was missing details in the darker parts of the scene. couldnt even see buttons on a black shirt or the fold of a collar on the characters jacket.

overall i do find leds to be brighter, but my plasma is bright enough.

none of the tvs that we own are the top of the line models that go for more than 2,000, so i guess it depends on which model you own.
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post #13 of 15 Old 02-29-2012, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Well it doesn't really madder now that these aren't available under a 55" anywhere.
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post #14 of 15 Old 03-14-2012, 12:58 PM
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amazon has the 46" st30 for $820 free scheduled shipping with prime and price guarantee. i just snagged one. frys also has it for the same price, but i pay tax there and you can do pickup too.
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post #15 of 15 Old 03-15-2012, 11:51 AM
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My son has been playing Mass Effect 3 on our new 55ST30 and he says other than the screen being a bit big it's fantastic. Blacks are really dark btw.
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