Sharp Plays "Stayin' Alive", Sells Shares to Foxconn - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 44 Old 03-27-2012, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Hon Hai, the company we know better as Foxconn, is buying about 11% of Sharp for about $800 million and is also taking ownership of about 1/2 of the world's only operating 10G LCD plant in Sakai as part of the deal.

Hon Hai owns Chi Mei, which makes LCD panels, but has nothing of this size or modernity in its arsenal so it's a fairly mammoth win for them. They get about $5 billion worth of plant for $800 million (no, really, they do).

It's an admission by Sharp that they need a capital infusion, that they have absolutely no prospects whatsoever to ever need more than half the production of Sakai and that they are willing to do business with a Taiwanese company to achieve that.

Anyway, it's a good thing overall since it helps shore up Sharp's balance sheet both directly (cash) and indirectly (they don't need to take a further write down on the plant since they just sold half of it; although there'll be another one-time charge I imagine because this was a low price).

More here: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/28/bu...-hai.html?_r=1

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #2 of 44 Old 03-27-2012, 12:47 PM
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is that the fab where the producing those 70", 80", and 90" panels?

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post #3 of 44 Old 03-27-2012, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

is that the fab where the producing those 70", 80", and 90" panels?

The 70s for sure. There is reason to believe the 80s and 90s are actually being produced at an older 8G fab, Sharp's Kameyama facility. At least they were initially, but, of course, that could've changed.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #4 of 44 Old 03-27-2012, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

is that the fab where the producing those 70", 80", and 90" panels?

Simple rule of thumb is Quattron is 10G and non Quattron is 8G. You will see less non-Quattron as half of the fab is being converted for Apple supply.

As per my post below from another thread, it is actually Terry Guo buying the 10G plant. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple TV turns out to be huge size. Apple had "huge size" LCD monitors.

The irony lost here is that CMI is itself in financial trouble but Guo did not bail it out with direct investment, but CMI doing rights issue instead.

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Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Looks like Sharp needs to be "rescued" to produce IGZO display for Apple. Does sound like Sharp will also be the one providing the Apple TV display. There goes the theory that Sharp is making tons of money from 10G making huge panels. Sharp Display Products is the 10G plant.

Hon Hai is the assembly partner of Apple in China, and the major shareholder of the largest panel maker in Taiwan- CMI

" March 27 (Bloomberg) -- Sharp Corp., which forecast a record loss this year, plans to raise 132.5 billion yen ($1.6billion) by selling new shares in itself to Foxconn Technology
Group and a stake in a display unit to Foxconn’s founder.
Foxconn, including Taipei-listed flagship Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., will buy 9.9 percent of Sharp for 66.9 billion yen, the Osaka-based company said in a statement today. Sharp
will sell shares for 550 yen, which is 11 percent more than its closing price today. Foxconn chairman Terry Gou and related investment corporations also will buy 46.5 percent of the
display unit for 66 billion yen."
" The sale of its Sharp Display Products shares will cut Sharp’s stake in the venture with Sony to 46.5 percent. Sony will keep its 7 percent holding, it said."

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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

It's an admission by Sharp that they need a capital infusion, that they have absolutely no prospects whatsoever to ever need more than half the production of Sakai and that they are willing to do business with a Taiwanese company to achieve that.

Not sure about this. Apple was forced to ask its nemesis Microsoft to invest 10% into the company before it runs out of cash, and Microsoft pulling out Office. It speaks little of its potential, but certainly volumes on its past strategy and financial management.

PS interesting note by Barclays on 10G profitability. Not very profitable, even after the massive writedowns and reduced depreciation, but at least positive PnL:
P/L
(JPY mn) 3/2010 3/2011
Sales 86,923 266,261
Cost of goods sold 78,036 248,867
Gross profit 8,887 17,393
SG&A expense 2,130 6,119
Operating profits 6,756 11,274
Nonoperating income/expenditure -160 702
Recurring profit 6,595 11,977
Pretax profit 6,595 11,977
Taxes 4 4
Income taxes-deferred 2,684 4,875
Net profits 3,907 7,097

"we believe the sales price for Sharp’s 10G panel production plant was around book value (at around JPY66.0bn, see Figure 1), meaning there is little risk of an impairment loss (Our BPS for 13/3E is JPY593.7)" -Barclays
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post #5 of 44 Old 03-27-2012, 08:29 PM
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Interesting. This should be good for them

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #6 of 44 Old 03-28-2012, 12:18 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, Spec, the Apple-Microsoft deal does point out you can be nearly bankrupt and grow 1000-fold. But Sharp just gave away half of Sakai. That means they see it as a plant they won't need more than half of during its useful life. You can't spin it any other way unless Sharp was about to go bankrupt and this was the only way to raise $800M, which doesn't appear to be the case.

They basically just said, "We need less than half of the Sakai production for the remainder of the decade." It's not a statement about LCD production forever, but it's close.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #7 of 44 Old 03-28-2012, 03:16 AM
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^^ that makes sense but a kink is that it is Terry Guo who bought into 10G. He probably not so keen to have 1/2 of the capacity allocated to him

My guess is he is passive and likely position for Apple TV. The LCD IP lies in Sharp parent itself.
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post #8 of 44 Old 03-28-2012, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I still find it hard to believe Apple wants 60" panels for their TVs. I guess we're likely to find out what their plans are soon enough though. And, of course, they can make something smaller on those 10G lines, even though Sharp didn't find it profitable in the commodity market. Interesting times.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #9 of 44 Old 03-28-2012, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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And further evidence of how little Sharp cares about Sony's tiny stake in the Sakai plant/JV.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/28/s...ny-cuts-off-c/

Sony appears to be without any owned supply of high-end panels going forward. Presumably they are going to be leaning very heavily on LG since they said "screw you" to both Samsung and Sharp in the past year. This is the same LG, mind you, that can't deliver large-size panels with any consistency, so any hopes of Sony stepping its game up above 60" should be that much further dashed at this point.

Sony must be considering all of its options at this point, which is why we are hearing rumors around OLED, CLED, LCD. But I imagine one of those options is getting rid of the TV division entirely, despite its public protestations to the contrary. It's pretty clear you don't make money unless you own production and even when you do, it's a hard business that is apparently headed for a zero-growth-or-worse period.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #10 of 44 Old 03-28-2012, 05:47 PM
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All of this is quite amazing to me. It is unbelievable the amount of money that is being bled by panel mfg's.

As stated in another thread I have been been kicking tires and my bonus will be here next month. I want a LARGE display and Sony is my favorite mfg despite the way things are panning out.

I am concerned somthing might happen with Sharp and perhaps they abandon the Elite line who knows. The Sony 65 sounds in jeopardy.

One of those two sets will be purchased but I think I will move forward with the 70 Elite next month and this should keep me covered until OLED comes out in similar sizes down the road.

Ugh things seem to be getting worse at a more rapid rate then I thought.

I would feel worse over Sony leaving the landscape than Pioneer. I have had great sets from them including my current 55XBR8 over my 20 plus years of buying tv's. It would suck...

Rick

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post #11 of 44 Old 03-28-2012, 06:02 PM
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We shouldn't be surprise if Sharp is the only Japanese TV manufacturer left by end of this decade. But the Japanese still own tons of IP.
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post #12 of 44 Old 03-29-2012, 02:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

We shouldn't be surprise if Sharp is the only Japanese TV manufacturer left by end of this decade. But the Japanese still own tons of IP.

True on both of those.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #13 of 44 Old 03-29-2012, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Sony appears to be without any owned supply of high-end panels going forward. Presumably they are going to be leaning very heavily on LG since they said "screw you" to both Samsung and Sharp in the past year. This is the same LG, mind you, that can't deliver large-size panels with any consistency, so any hopes of Sony stepping its game up above 60" should be that much further dashed at this point.

Come to think of it... Foxconn is the EMS for Sharp and Sony. Most likely the deal will allow Foxconn to be a bridge for Sharp's panels to Sony and others. But like I said, Terry is unlikely to take 50% of 10G capacity as Foxconn doesn't have brand TV business (ie it will not be principal)

"Foxconn is planning to make 9.5M LCD TVs in 2012, including 8M for Sony and 1.5M for Sharp. Foxconn acquired Sony’s global LCD TV assembly lines a few years ago and provides manufacturing for Sony. With Sharp’s panel capacity and technologies, Foxconn will certainly expand its OEM business." -DisplaySearch
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post #14 of 44 Old 03-30-2012, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post

All of this is quite amazing to me. It is unbelievable the amount of money that is being bled by panel mfg's.

As stated in another thread I have been been kicking tires and my bonus will be here next month. I want a LARGE display and Sony is my favorite mfg despite the way things are panning out.

I am concerned somthing might happen with Sharp and perhaps they abandon the Elite line who knows. The Sony 65 sounds in jeopardy.

One of those two sets will be purchased but I think I will move forward with the 70 Elite next month and this should keep me covered until OLED comes out in similar sizes down the road.

Ugh things seem to be getting worse at a more rapid rate then I thought.

I would feel worse over Sony leaving the landscape than Pioneer. I have had great sets from them including my current 55XBR8 over my 20 plus years of buying tv's. It would suck...

Rick


no, use your bonus to buy one of lgs oled sets and be a guinea pig for the rest of us.

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post #15 of 44 Old 03-30-2012, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

no, use your bonus to buy one of lgs oled sets and be a guinea pig for the rest of us.

Too late sorry- I ordered the 70 Elite yesterday.

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post #16 of 44 Old 04-09-2012, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

...
Sony must be considering all of its options at this point, which is why we are hearing rumors around OLED, CLED, LCD. But I imagine one of those options is getting rid of the TV division entirely, despite its public protestations to the contrary. It's pretty clear you don't make money unless you own production and even when you do, it's a hard business that is apparently headed for a zero-growth-or-worse period.

When Sony (and much less - Panasonic) will abandon TV-sets business, that would be their suicide decision! All their success of now profitable divisions (PSs , PCs ,photo-video cams etc.) is based on their public perception ( completely justifiable!) as best TVs producing company. If they can't compete in that their main area , they gonna end up as miserably as Sanyo, Motorola or Kodak... IMHO
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post #17 of 44 Old 04-09-2012, 11:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CATYPH202 View Post

When Sony (and much less - Panasonic) will abandon TV-sets business, that would be their suicide decision! All their success of now profitable divisions (PSs , PCs ,photo-video cams etc.) is based on their public perception ( completely justifiable!) as best TVs producing company. If they can't compete in that their main area , they gonna end up as miserably as Sanyo, Motorola or Kodak... IMHO

I don't agree with you at all.

Sony has lost money in TVs for at least a decade. TVs are killing them, not helping them.

Sony is well regarded for their cameras for PS3 to some extent for their computers and they are letting their TV division kill the company. That's not brave, it's foolish.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #18 of 44 Old 04-10-2012, 04:41 AM
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Coincidentally more bad news from Sony and Sharp:

April 10 (Bloomberg) -- Sony Corp. and Sharp Corp. posted a combined 900 billion yen ($11 billion) loss as deteriorating market conditions forced Japan’s two largest LCD television
makers to abandon forecasts made just two months ago. Shares traded in Germany plummeted.
Sony had a record loss of 520 billion yen for the year ended March 31, more than twice what it had predicted in February, after taking a charge to write down deferred tax
assets. Sharp also had a record loss of 380 billion yen, 31 percent more than its earlier forecast.

The two companies, once symbols of Japan’s dominance in electronics, have been hammered by Apple Inc. and Samsung Electronics Co., a strong yen and the aftermath of last year’s quake and Thai floods. Sony’s new President, Kazuo Hirai, may have to raise equity and cut jobs while Sharp has turned toTaiwan’s Foxconn Technology Group for an infusion of cash.
“The situation is critical and we will carry out drastic reform. Nothing is sacred.” Sony’s Chief Financial Officer Masaru Kato said today in Tokyo. “Turning around our TV business is a top priority.”
Sony’s shares in Germany plunged as much as 9 percent, the most in more than three years. Sharp’s shares fell 7 percent in Frankfurt.

Tax Charge

Sony took a 300 billion yen charge to write down the value of deferred tax assets as the company no longer expects to be as profitable as it had once forecast. The company may raise financing with equity, according to Kato. It has not made any specific plans to do so, he said.
“Given the tax charges, Sony’s revival and growth plans in the U.S. don’t seem to be working out,” said Satoshi Yuzaki, a general manager at Takagi Securities in Tokyo. “The market is very skeptical about the outlook for the company over the next three to five years.”
The loss underscores the challenge for Hirai, 51, in turning around the company that set the trend in electronics during the 1980s with products like the Walkman music player.
Hirai, who succeeded Howard Stringer this month, has said he will close down less-competitive businesses and cut costs to revive Sony. The company predicted operating profit of 180
billion yen for the fiscal year that began this month.

Job Cuts

The company will cut jobs at its television unit, according to a person familiar with the situation. Sony may eliminate as many as 10,000 positions, according to the Nikkei newspaper. Sony will give a briefing on its turnaround plan on April 12, Kato said, declining to elaborate on the number of job cuts.
Sony’s loss is the worst since the company was founded, according to Mami Imada, a spokeswoman. Including today’s announcement of the 520 billion-yen loss, Sony lost a combined 919.32 billion yen in the past four years, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
“It’s only been two months since Sony cut forecasts last time,” said Nobuo Kurahashi, an analyst at Mizuho Financial Group Inc. in Tokyo “Given the general trend that orders and
sales improved this past quarter, it’s unclear what could have changed so dramatically. Overall, the impression of today’s announcement is very bad.”
Hirai is scheduled to outline his turnaround plan on April 12. Sony, worth more than $125 billion in 2000, is now valued at $20 billion, compared with $591 billion for Cupertino,
California-based Apple and $170 billion for Suwon, South Korea-based Samsung.
The new CEO, who’s been credited with making the PlayStation game business profitable, is bringing in a new team and has put himself in charge of Sony’s TV business, which is
forecast to lose money for an eighth consecutive year.
Hirai has already taken action in an effort to boost the TV business. Last year, Sony exited a panel-making venture with Samsung, saying the sale of that stake to the South Korean
company will save about 50 billion yen in costs for Sony’s TV operation.
Sharp also posted the worst loss since the company was founded a century ago. The company has cut production of TV panels at its two biggest LCD plants as demand has failed to meet supply. The company’s so-called 10th-generation factory in Sakai, has a production capacity of 72,000 panels a month, while the eighth-generation LCD plant in Kameyama, Mie, is capable of making 100,000 panels.
“Our previous forecast was too optimistic,” Tetsuo Onishi, an executive managing officer said in a press conference in Osaka. “Sales are still bad.”
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post #19 of 44 Old 04-10-2012, 05:52 AM
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Just what was to be expected after they put Foxconn in their Chicken Coop!


FOXCONN TAKES CONTROL OVER SHARP'S 10G PLANT

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1334043037

"Nikkei reports that Sharp has decided to sell more than 7 % of their remaining share in their 10G (10th generation) display plant to Toppan Printing Co. and Dai Nippon Printing Co., respectively. That leaves Sharp with a less than 40 % share in the world's most advanced display manufacturing plant, and means that Foxconn is now effectively taking control with their 46 % share."
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post #20 of 44 Old 04-10-2012, 12:37 PM
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we may have 2 fewer display manufacturers soon. i would think panny is next unless their reliance on plasmas somehow gives them some sort of advantage.

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post #21 of 44 Old 04-10-2012, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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It's impossible to overstate how significant the Sharp events are. In the span of weeks, they not only sold off their prize display asset for cents on the dollar, they ceded control of it.

Yes, they own 40% of what's left. That gives them some kind of rights to production, I'm quite sure, but none of the management control looking forward. This is a plant that was already running at partial capacity and apparently is going to do so for the foreseeable future.

I know a lot of people are bullish on the future of giant TVs, but Sharp isn't. Having sold ~200,000+ 70" models last year and once owning a plant that could make >5M in a single year, Sharp looked at the writing on the wall and said, "We need cash now and we're not seeing any scenario where producing 5 million of these TVs is happening."

For what it's worth, if Sharp moves toward solely 70" production at Sakai (again, they still have Kameyama), they would still have the ability to produce about 2M 70" annually down the road. And I suspect they have some forecast that shows that happening. Let's hope they are still making TVs by then. Anyone who sees that as a certainty is kidding themselves.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #22 of 44 Old 04-10-2012, 06:10 PM
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The way I see it is that Sharp simply ran out of cash. It doesn't matter if they have the best equipment but no working capital to produce widgets. They are also a major solar player.

And like I said, someone did their maths very wrong. LTCM or Barings would have been heroes if they could hold their positions for another 6 months. Time is not on Sharp's side.
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post #23 of 44 Old 04-10-2012, 09:12 PM
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Why so negative about Sharp? Remember when Sony sold their stake in S-LCD moments before they announced C-LED? One thing I admire about the Japanese is their skill at keeping secrets, as no one saw C-LED coming. Additionally, it is a mystery how Sony is building these C-LED screens.

Since LCDs are now a commodity, Sharp could be moving to something else. Let's wait and see.
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post #24 of 44 Old 04-10-2012, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

The way I see it is that Sharp simply ran out of cash. It doesn't matter if they have the best equipment but no working capital to produce widgets. They are also a major solar player.

And like I said, someone did their maths very wrong. LTCM or Barings would have been heroes if they could hold their positions for another 6 months. Time is not on Sharp's side.

Right, they ran out of cash. That's not a good thing when their major businesses are both struggling.

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Originally Posted by Readykilowatt View Post

Why so negative about Sharp?

Because they are acting like they are trying to stave off bankruptcy.

Quote:
Remember when Sony sold their stake in S-LCD moments before they announced C-LED?

They demoed CLED; they have yet to announce any plans to develop it.
Quote:
One thing I admire about the Japanese is their skill at keeping secrets, as no one saw C-LED coming. Additionally, it is a mystery how Sony is building these C-LED screens.

It's a mystery as to whether Sony will ever decide to develop the technology at all.
Quote:
Since LCDs are now a commodity, Sharp could be moving to something else. Let's wait and see.

Sony is undercapitalized to develop something new. Compared to Sharp, Sony is rich. Sharp is not moving on to something new, they are hanging on for dear life.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #25 of 44 Old 04-11-2012, 02:26 AM
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They demoed CLED; they have yet to announce any plans to develop it. It's a mystery as to whether Sony will ever decide to develop the technology at all. Sony is undercapitalized to develop something new. Compared to Sharp, Sony is rich. Sharp is not moving on to something new, they are hanging on for dear life.

You are still too optimistic: Japan's Sony Corp flagged a record $6.4 billion annual net loss, double an earlier forecast and a fourth straight year of red ink, as it writes off deferred tax credits, heaping more pressure on its new CEO to turn around the electronics giant. Sony, which plans to axe 10,000 jobs - around 6 percent of its global workforce - according to media reports this week, has been hammered by weak demand for its televisions and overtaken by more innovative gadget rivals such as Apple Inc and Samsung Electronics.

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post #26 of 44 Old 04-11-2012, 02:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

You are still too optimistic: Japan's Sony Corp flagged a record $6.4 billion annual net loss, double an earlier forecast and a fourth straight year of red ink, as it writes off deferred tax credits, heaping more pressure on its new CEO to turn around the electronics giant. Sony, which plans to axe 10,000 jobs - around 6 percent of its global workforce - according to media reports this week, has been hammered by weak demand for its televisions and overtaken by more innovative gadget rivals such as Apple Inc and Samsung Electronics.

More than half of Sony's loss was a non-cash charge relating to deferred tax credits.

Sony's balance sheet is not in anywhere near the shape of Sharp's since they still have cash-flow generating business units -- unlike Sharp.

I am not optimistic, nor was anything in my post optimistic. I was merely noting that relatively speaking Sony is not as close to insolvency as Sharp. Apparently either that point was lost on you or you felt some need to try to score points in our ongoing tete a tete since the last week has seen you getting pasted.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #27 of 44 Old 04-11-2012, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Readykilowatt View Post

Why so negative about Sharp? Remember when Sony sold their stake in S-LCD moments before they announced C-LED? One thing I admire about the Japanese is their skill at keeping secrets, as no one saw C-LED coming. Additionally, it is a mystery how Sony is building these C-LED screens.

Since LCDs are now a commodity, Sharp could be moving to something else. Let's wait and see.

I saw it coming... with my own two eyes two years ago!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...2&postcount=11

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post #28 of 44 Old 04-11-2012, 07:28 AM
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One thing is clear enough. Whomever is perceived to have the high end, videophile-quality product line will struggle. First Pioneer/Elite, now Sharp/Elite, and Sony has been charging price premiums and still not making money for about a decade.

That leaves Samsung standing at the top. Perhaps they will end up as the only survivor if this grim marketplace continues for a few more years.

It's never a good thing for the consumer when one supplier effectively owns the market.

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post #29 of 44 Old 04-11-2012, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary McCoy; View Post

One thing is clear enough. Whomever is perceived to have the high end, videophile-quality product line will struggle. First Pioneer/Elite, now Sharp/Elite, and Sony has been charging price premiums and still not making money for about a decade.

That leaves Samsung standing at the top. Perhaps they will end up as the only survivor if this grim marketplace continues for a few more years.

It's never a good thing for the consumer when one supplier effectively owns the market.

When OLEd (or/and CLEd) takes over Samsung will be the one who loses the most money so right now, dispite what one might think, they are in a uncomfortable situation.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/46378049/Sams...r_LCD_Business
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post #30 of 44 Old 04-11-2012, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

More than half of Sony's loss was a non-cash charge relating to deferred tax credits.

Sony's balance sheet is not in anywhere near the shape of Sharp's since they still have cash-flow generating business units -- unlike Sharp.

I am not optimistic, nor was anything in my post optimistic. I was merely noting that relatively speaking Sony is not as close to insolvency as Sharp. Apparently either that point was lost on you or you felt some need to try to score points in our ongoing tete a tete since the last week has seen you getting pasted.

With the financial situations being what they are and the apparent emergence of OLED how do you see the market place shaking out? What will happen to Panasonics plasma world? Will all the majors be forced to sell OLED to make a profit?
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