2015: Plasma's final year? - Page 6 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 16Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #151 of 185 Old 07-01-2014, 05:14 PM
Senior Member
 
Jason626's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: illinois
Posts: 353
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 66
It's just hard to believe that Samsung plasma demand hasn't increased alittle bit since Panasonic left plasmas. Oh well I guess.
Jason626 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #152 of 185 Old 07-02-2014, 03:20 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sequoia, CA
Posts: 30,113
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 465
I would like to be sadder about this.

I bought a 2012 plasma knowing full well it would be the last plasma I'd ever buy. It's two years later and there exists no OLED for any price that would replace it, though perhaps one will come later this year. Still, I paid about $3,000 for a top-of-the-line 65-inch TV and that OLED is apparently going to cost 2-3x as much when (if?) if arrives.

But, importantly, it will use about 1/3 the power. It will be significantly thinner and lighter, to the extent that matters in our ever-miniaturizing world. It will display 4K, which my TV will never do. It will likely be better in daytime viewing, where my set is good, and brighter for use in evenings, where my set is good but imperfect, thanks to being a plasma.

It's clear to me in retrospect that I could not have bought at a better time. I had a 6-year-old TV that had served its purposes. I figured the replacement would likely last a similar length of time, but that under no circumstances would I be jonesing for an upgrade until around the 4th year.

It now appears that the 4th year, 2016, will be the "moment" for OLED. In 2014, LG will launch more models if all goes according to plan. In 2015, they will find the right prices to make those begin to sell and allow for higher volume. In 2016, LG's OEMs, quite possibly Samsung, and maybe even another will join the market and widely expand OLED availability.

There is no irony in that 2016 was the year that had been identified eons ago on these forums as prime time for OLED. That doesn't mean people buying them now -- the early adopters -- are foolish. In fact, those buying them next year are likely to be about as happy as the 2016 buyers, even though they'll pay more and have fewer choices.

In an ideal world, the plasma would have lived to fill the gap for a fantastic $3,000 TV until the OLED was a fantastic $3,000 TV. I am not opposed to a world where a fantastic TV costs more, but I am aware of sales data and can state fairly categorically that above $3,000, there is essentially no market at all.

Perhaps the plasma needed to die before the OLED could flourish. In that regard, it might be like the great dinosaurs of 65 million years ago. They needed to die before the early mammals, however interesting, could really begin to stake their claims.

What we've seen is T. Rex (Panasonic) and Stegosaurus (Samsung) exit the stage one after the other. They may not have been friends, but the ecosystem thrived when both were strong and died quickly when one disappeared. Each was a hulking beast with some amazing attributes. Neither is well suited to the changing climate (literally and figuratively).

This is a weird time for a TV buyer. Do you buy the last plasma if you're in the market? Or do you buy some LCD that might displease you in some way? The answers are beyond the scope of this epitaph, but I'm happy to help with advice elsewhere.

In the meantime, RIP plasma. Without you, there likely never would have been a flat-panel TV era. You made LCD solve problems of manufacturing it didn't know it had until it tried to compete with you. Then, it's nimbleness and sheer scale crushed you. Thanks for the memories. And thanks for holding out until 2016 or so in my family room. I appreciate it, in advance.
markrubin, fafrd, JimP and 10 others like this.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is offline  
post #153 of 185 Old 07-02-2014, 08:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CruelInventions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 4,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 175
I have a crush on that post. So fine.

Mourning the disappearing usage of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
CruelInventions is offline  
post #154 of 185 Old 07-02-2014, 10:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
5x10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 625
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Liked: 173
65' oled isn't out of the realm of possibilities
I bought a 55 oled for $1999
In time
5x10 is online now  
post #155 of 185 Old 07-03-2014, 03:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
EscapeVelocity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 5,641
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Excellent prediction.

I predicted that plasma would last 5 more years after Pioneer ended it's plasma production. That wasnt too bad a prediction either.

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
EscapeVelocity is offline  
post #156 of 185 Old 07-05-2014, 08:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Artwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hoover, Alabama
Posts: 4,824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 203
Any prediction in the direction of an LCD only world is a bad prediction.

My advice after plasma's last funeral: Rob a bank and take millions to the president of LG and beg him to actually sell you in person his best OLED!


If you can't do that and if you can't find a functioning plasma then get ready to live in the sewer!
Artwood is offline  
post #157 of 185 Old 07-06-2014, 04:40 PM
Senior Member
 
Weboh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 20
How long do Plasma TVs last?
Weboh is offline  
post #158 of 185 Old 07-07-2014, 02:05 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sequoia, CA
Posts: 30,113
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weboh View Post
How long do Plasma TVs last?
Many years, barring premature failure. No reason one couldn't be in use for a decade plus....

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is offline  
post #159 of 185 Old 07-07-2014, 06:56 AM
Senior Member
 
9179mhb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weboh View Post
How long do Plasma TVs last?
I have (3) PDPs:

1) Purchased during 2005 (50PX50U)
2) Purchased during 2007 (PRO-150FD)
3) Purchased (5) months ago (64F8500)

each display is operating just like new.
9179mhb is offline  
post #160 of 185 Old 07-07-2014, 08:05 AM
Senior Member
 
Ragnrok23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Swansea, Ma
Posts: 238
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

This is a weird time for a TV buyer. Do you buy the last plasma if you're in the market? Or do you buy some LCD that might displease you in some way? The answers are beyond the scope of this epitaph, but I'm happy to help with advice elsewhere.
This is the boat I'm in right now. I almost bought a ST60 when Panasonic announced it wasn't producing anymore plasma's, but at the time I figured the basement was 5 years away from being finished- well fast forward to now (1 year later) and we're finishing it this fall. I am leaning towards the Samsung F8500, but i wanted a 60" at the $1,500 price point the ST60 offered the F8500 might be too much $$$ for me right now
Ragnrok23 is offline  
post #161 of 185 Old 07-07-2014, 02:57 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sequoia, CA
Posts: 30,113
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnrok23 View Post
This is the boat I'm in right now. I almost bought a ST60 when Panasonic announced it wasn't producing anymore plasma's, but at the time I figured the basement was 5 years away from being finished- well fast forward to now (1 year later) and we're finishing it this fall. I am leaning towards the Samsung F8500, but i wanted a 60" at the $1,500 price point the ST60 offered the F8500 might be too much $$$ for me right now
Worst case you get a $1000-ish Vizio M series (2014 model) and don't sweat the picture quality; just enjoy the new cave.

In a world of real problems, this feels like a potentially small one you can live with.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is offline  
post #162 of 185 Old 07-07-2014, 08:28 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
R Harkness's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,964
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weboh View Post
How long do Plasma TVs last?
I have a Panasonic plasma from 2002 that continues to work just fine (with no burn in), and this was way back when
the 1/2 life of plasmas was only rated at around 30,000 hours. This plasma reminds me almost of our Honda Accord - it stuck around so long we got sick of it, wanted it to die in order to get something else, but nothing would kill it.
Every CRT I ever owned was more finicky than this plasma.
Djoel and ChadThunder like this.
R Harkness is online now  
post #163 of 185 Old 07-08-2014, 05:14 AM
Senior Member
 
Ragnrok23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Swansea, Ma
Posts: 238
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Worst case you get a $1000-ish Vizio M series (2014 model) and don't sweat the picture quality; just enjoy the new cave.

In a world of real problems, this feels like a potentially small one you can live with.

That is my plan B- I just wish they still had 3D
Ragnrok23 is offline  
post #164 of 185 Old 07-09-2014, 07:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
barth2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,204
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
I have a Panasonic plasma from 2002 that continues to work just fine (with no burn in), and this was way back when
the 1/2 life of plasmas was only rated at around 30,000 hours. This plasma reminds me almost of our Honda Accord - it stuck around so long we got sick of it, wanted it to die in order to get something else, but nothing would kill it.
Every CRT I ever owned was more finicky than this plasma.
My bro in law has a 9 yo Akai plasma (back when plasma cost an arm and a leg). It's still kicking just fine. If it looks any worse now than it did when new, I can't tell.

No doubt he secretly wishes the thing would die so he can get something else.
barth2k is online now  
post #165 of 185 Old 07-10-2014, 07:00 AM
Member
 
Mrke1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnrok23 View Post
This is the boat I'm in right now. I almost bought a ST60 when Panasonic announced it wasn't producing anymore plasma's, but at the time I figured the basement was 5 years away from being finished- well fast forward to now (1 year later) and we're finishing it this fall. I am leaning towards the Samsung F8500, but i wanted a 60" at the $1,500 price point the ST60 offered the F8500 might be too much $$$ for me right now
If your basement is light controlled, why not give the Sammy 64" 5300 a try?
CruelInventions likes this.
Mrke1 is online now  
post #166 of 185 Old 07-10-2014, 02:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Ragnrok23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Swansea, Ma
Posts: 238
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrke1 View Post
If your basement is light controlled, why not give the Sammy 64" 5300 a try?
That's plan B2- I'm not quite sure where the TV is going to go, so it might get some light reflection depending on which wall it goes on
Ragnrok23 is offline  
post #167 of 185 Old 07-12-2014, 12:19 PM
Senior Member
 
Weboh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 20
You all might want to adjust your air temperatures to 65 degrees Farenheit. It is rumored plasmas work best at that temperature.
Weboh is offline  
post #168 of 185 Old 07-12-2014, 04:17 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Just imagine the utility bill at the end of the month.
vinnie_RIP is offline  
post #169 of 185 Old 07-12-2014, 05:48 PM
Senior Member
 
Weboh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie_RIP View Post
Just imagine the utility bill at the end of the month.
Just as long as you operate the TV moderately, I think you may be o-kay with 69 degrees.
Weboh is offline  
post #170 of 185 Old 07-12-2014, 05:54 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Pioneer made a workhorse that didn't need any special thermostat considerations (3000-hour letterbox IR notwithstanding). With the Panasonic, I'm not so sure.
vinnie_RIP is offline  
post #171 of 185 Old 07-12-2014, 06:13 PM
Senior Member
 
Weboh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie_RIP View Post
Pioneer made a workhorse that didn't need any special thermostat considerations (3000-hour letterbox IR notwithstanding). With the Panasonic, I'm not so sure.
As you go to the higher end screens, they produce more heat, and require more cooling or breathing. Basically, the more you cook the pixels, the more cautious you have to be.
Weboh is offline  
post #172 of 185 Old 07-12-2014, 06:15 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 21
I can't deny that a 65" panel will definitely consume more power and thus produce more heat. So you're saying people in deserts should stick with LCD? This past winter was not a warm one, though. A low of 15F here in the high desert. That's why I suspect there are more variables at play with IR/burn-in susceptibility.
vinnie_RIP is offline  
post #173 of 185 Old 07-12-2014, 06:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Weboh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie_RIP View Post
I can't deny that a 65" panel will definitely consume more power and thus produce more heat. So you're saying people in deserts should stick with LCD? This past winter was not a warm one, though. A low of 15F here in the high desert. That's why I suspect there are more variables at play with IR/burn-in susceptibility.
In a 65 inch plasma, the pixels are less crammed. The light is more efficient per the amount of heat; but it still uses more energy.
Weboh is offline  
post #174 of 185 Old 07-12-2014, 07:59 PM
Senior Member
 
ChadThunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 280
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Ragnrok the 65PB2U might be for you

Panasonic 50PB2 (2013 monitor)
ChadThunder is offline  
post #175 of 185 Old 07-14-2014, 08:59 AM
Senior Member
 
Ragnrok23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Swansea, Ma
Posts: 238
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadThunder View Post
Ragnrok the 65PB2U might be for you

Panasonic 50PB2 (2013 monitor)
where so I find one?
Ragnrok23 is offline  
post #176 of 185 Old 07-14-2014, 09:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,143
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 271 Post(s)
Liked: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnrok23 View Post
where so I find one?
I'm just now catching up to that information.....is this a supported monitor any longer?

WARNING: You have now entered a no @#$%tard zone. Please gather your anti-vaccine propaganda nonsense and slowly back out the way you came in.
tgm1024 is online now  
post #177 of 185 Old 07-16-2014, 03:25 PM
Senior Member
 
ChadThunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 280
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Sorry tgm what do you mean by supported? the software on the monitors are very straightforward like you would expect, and you can control every function over over the network port or serial interface in addition to the remote

http://panasonic.net/prodisplays/support/download/pdf/65_50PB2_Serial_Command.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnrok23 View Post
where so I find one?
Mostly online vendors, I bought my monitor online
ChadThunder is offline  
post #178 of 185 Old 07-16-2014, 03:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gecko85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: California
Posts: 2,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post
It will be significantly thinner and lighter, to the extent that matters in our ever-miniaturizing world.
Great post...but I do always laugh when I hear the "thinner and lighter" thing mentioned.

My current set is the last Panny Plasma before they all went away, and my previous set (which I'm still using, but in a different room) was the last great CRT HDTV (Sony XBR960). When I bought the Sony, *many* people snickered and mentioned the size/weight, and how much better off I'd be with an LCD (or Plasma), because of how much lighter they were. Since the day I bought it, it's never moved (except once I got the Panny). The Panny will likely never move until it's time to be replaced. Most people's living rooms, home theaters, etc. are set up in such a way that there is really only one place a large TV can go. I have yet to meet the person that re-arranges their room every few months, moving the TV to a different way (and all their other gear along with it...) So, it just cracks me up when I hear about this set being lighter than that set when it mostly doesn't matter. (Now, I'm not ever going to be mounting the Sony beast on the wall...so there's that...but it's in an entertainment center and I wouldn't have considered mounting it anyway...)

Panasonic TC-P60ST60, Pioneer SC-1523-K, Oppo BDP-103D, Pioneer PL-550 + Cambridge Audio Azur 640P, B&W CM1 (fronts), B&W CM Centre, Athena Point 5 Mk II (rears), Hsu VTF-2
----------------------------------------
Sony 34XBR960, Onkyo TX-NR414, Sony PS3, Athena Point 5 Mk II (center and fronts), Wharfedale WH-2 (rears), Polk PSW10
Gecko85 is offline  
post #179 of 185 Old 07-16-2014, 03:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,143
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 271 Post(s)
Liked: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadThunder View Post
Sorry tgm what do you mean by supported? the software on the monitors are very straightforward like you would expect, and you can control every function over over the network port or serial interface in addition to the remote
No, I mean will the display panel itself remain supported. Pana has punted their plasma TV business....I'm assuming that they'd be dumping their monitor business as well.

Especially since there are far more static images involved in monitors for PCs and the like and hence more option for burning. I know that the plan might be to use it as a TV, but the market, and hence the reason for that product to exist at all, is as a monitor.

WARNING: You have now entered a no @#$%tard zone. Please gather your anti-vaccine propaganda nonsense and slowly back out the way you came in.
tgm1024 is online now  
post #180 of 185 Old 07-17-2014, 02:32 AM
Advanced Member
 
tom669's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Leeds, UK
Posts: 914
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
No, I mean will the display panel itself remain supported. Pana has punted their plasma TV business....I'm assuming that they'd be dumping their monitor business as well.

Especially since there are far more static images involved in monitors for PCs and the like and hence more option for burning. I know that the plan might be to use it as a TV, but the market, and hence the reason for that product to exist at all, is as a monitor.
Most PDPs actually work better when warmer, in particular the black level.

I had a low end LG 42PG3000. When started up the black level was terrible (light grey - visible in a lit room), but once the panel temperature exceeded 21C it actually started rivalling a Panasonic PZ80.
tom669 is offline  
Reply Flat Panels General and OLED Technology

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off