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post #91 of 313 Old 07-26-2013, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Thought I'd export this from the HTPC OR thread for those who are interested...and didn't catch it.
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

I tried it today, it IS awesome, despite the big pixels. No lag when you move your head, I did get dizzy a tiny bit in the rollercoaster-thru-a-magic-castle demo, but it was indeed incredible.

Occulus Rift is the most exciting thing to happen to gaming in a long time IMO.

Better resolution, especially 4k, will help a ton, even if it's just upscaled (you can see a very obvious "screen door" effect). Not sure if the version I tested is 1080p / 2 or full 1080p resolution, it's fairly low but still playable. The important thing is moving your head around, it 100x better than those old Gravis VR goggles from the mid 90s (I even visited Gravis when I was a teenager, great company). I think improving the res and sticking these in an even lighter frame will make it "must have" and then merge with the Google Glass type devices (although I suspect those will supercede this tech, if you can mask the back and the OLED screens can get good enough, I see these two markets merging into one, ubiquitous one). No more TVs, no more projectors, everyone wears glasses. I hope this tech is merged with Kinect 2, so that you can have true VR and body control immersion. It could be better than Holodeck in theory : a holodeck you can take with you.

Good time to be alive. The future is awesome.

Edits 7/30/2013:
http://kotaku.com/lets-look-at-the-big-name-titles-playable-on-oculus-ri-958577906
http://www.techradar.com/au/news/gaming/oculus-rift-in-space-gaming-s-final-frontier-1169689
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post #92 of 313 Old 08-18-2013, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

It seems to me it is very possible Oculus RIft will be more important to gaming than PS4 or Xbox One. That said..." But experts from the market now generally concede that this device could have a huge impact on movie viewing similar to the expected impact on the PC and Mobile device markets"

???

<<< This expert sees no impact on movie viewing. Movie viewing is not a solitary activity for most people. And the visual quality of Oculus Rift is not going to be that spectacular. What's spectacular is the immersive nature of it, which is not applicable to the way most films are even made.

(sorry for responding to such an old comment, but i felt i had to chime in!)

At first it won't be, at least not for people that actually own a high end 1080p - 4k projector. But here's the thing:
Resolution in LCD/OLED panels seem to finally be on the "information technology" bandwagon. And we're seeing progress at a relentless pace. Supposedly by 2014 some high end phones will ship with 2560x1600 6.1" LCD panels.
Whilst this may be considered diminishing returns for a smartphone (where i think the only visible advantage is asian characters at that PPSI), but for VR not only is it welcome, it's also not enough.
It didn't take very long to go from 720p to 1080p on smartphones, and the fact that 2560x1600 displays will be available in mass quantities only a year after 1080p became the resolution of choice for high end smartphone manufacturers, means they can probably go to 4k and beyond with out much trouble.
My only worry is that the Oculus Rift relies 100% on smartphone screen availability. So even though the rift it self could use something like 8k per eye, it doesn't mean that manufacturers might see value in making screens at that resolution since they are meant for smartphones. (even though i'm sure it's technically possible, and cheap)
But for the sake of argument, let's just assume that one way or another the screens do become available; It will make projectors a very impractical proposition at that point, specially for home theater.

Think about the possibilities for a bit:

In just a few years, you'll be able to buy your very own IMAX theater emulator for just 300-400 dollars. (that does all sorts of other neat stuff too that IMAX can't even do to begin with... such as really make you feel like you are in a different place)

VR's time has finally come, and since VR is now directly linked to information technologies you can expect exponential advance in the areas that the oculus rift dev kit is the most weak:

-Resolution
-Graphic quality
-Framerate
-Size (pretty soon you won't need a PC to drive it, you'd just have to conect your shiny new iPhone 7 to it)

So i'm thinking the consumer version might ship with the 6.1" sharp IGZO LCD panel (2560x1600) or a 1080p OLED capable of 120hz. Of course it's just speculation, but not with out evidence...
Palmer himself has said multiple times that the minimum resolution the consumer version will have is 1080p; but i think that by the time the rift is ready to ship even higher resolution screens will be widely available. So it's not outlandish at all to think they'll just skip 1080p altogether.

So, the dev kit shipped with a 720p screen in 2012, they showed a 1080p prototype in 2013, and a 1600p 2014 version is looking like a very realistic possibility. And it's not too much a stretch to say that by late 2015, or early 2016 we might see a 4k version.. and the version after that could be 8k (4k per eye) which should be able to fool most people into believing they are not looking at a screen. That is until we get 16k, (8k per eye) which should make the pixels all but invisible, even if it covered your whole FOV, just like real life.
At that point, why would people continue buying expensive home theater projectors that provide a much smaller screen size (150" vs IMAX size)
It'd be cheaper to just have your family have a rift themselves which could work on a "virtual networked theater" or even have your "friends over" and simply watch stuff linked by the internet.

The reason people are so excited, is because they understand that a breakthrough has been made. And in information technologies, once the breakthrough is made it gets better by exponential steps. (and like barrelbelly said, somepeople wouldn't even wait that long, they'd simply make the switch when they think the technology is "good enough" and i think this will be the case for the consumer version of the rift)
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post #93 of 313 Old 08-18-2013, 05:12 PM
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VR tech is still at least 5 years out until it can break into the mainstream. Lots of tech hurdles to still overcome. 2160p screens, lag free head tracking, lightweight. wireless, long run battery etc. To get that tech at an affordable price point will take some doing. Even when it is all in place, the effects of long term viewing have to be studied. Eye strain, headaches, motion disorientation sickness. etc. may keep it from widespread acceptance. Maybe a domed projection augmented reality system could achieve similar levels of VR without the complications.
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post #94 of 313 Old 08-18-2013, 06:32 PM
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VR tech is still at least 5 years out until it can break into the mainstream. Lots of tech hurdles to still overcome. 2160p screens, lag free head tracking, lightweight. wireless, long run battery etc. To get that tech at an affordable price point will take some doing. Even when it is all in place, the effects of long term viewing have to be studied. Eye strain, headaches, motion disorientation sickness. etc. may keep it from widespread acceptance. Maybe a domed projection augmented reality system could achieve similar levels of VR without the complications.

VR will probably never be as mainstream as AR. I don't see VR becoming as popular as smartphones, but i can very easily see AR replacing smartphones completely within the next 7-10 years.

That said, i don't think we'll have to wait 5 years for VR to become popular. Maybe i'm getting my hopes up too much for VR, but i think the Oculus rift will be a huge hit when it comes out. People seem to be more excited in general about the Oculus rift than the Xbox One or PS4. And while i think that at first the rift will be driven mainly by the PC. We have to remember that as soon as next year we'll have phones that can do 4k playback.
And in only a couple of years after that phones should be able to give acceptable 3d graphics even at that resolution.

I think that VR will evolve at a much faster pace than consoles. I think we'll see a much bigger difference in VR in the next 5 years than we have seen in consoles in the last 20 years.
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post #95 of 313 Old 08-22-2013, 06:21 AM
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+This is about rifting all sources. The part about how to enable 3D sterescopic Playstation and Xbox is removed because of legal HDCP issues.+

Hello,


at first I should mention that I am working blind on this project - I mean without a rift. So there is no certainty for me at all if my achievements are of any value. But I have a good feeling, because at least based on my fundamental ideas, better capture software can be made to shorten the gap between real Oculus Rift content and realtime rifted content.
I use video processors to alter video signals - scaling, framerate conversions/double and triple flashing, colour space conversions, 3D format conversion, deinterlacing, colour/brightness/contrast/gamma correction, aspect ratio control/zoom/cropping, softedge blending, geometry corrections via warp map and - very important - motion interpolation. But with every new format or industry standard, a stand alone video processors becomes outdated. And they are limited to what they were intended for, so only a few functions from above per a very expensive device.
So my idea was to set up a video processor for the Rift, that is based on a low level PC (equipped with a Blackmagic Intensity Pro Card), and is capable of applying the following (in real time) to any external source. A computer that can do that to a source is for simplicity named Rift PC in the further text:

- the geometric correction needed by the rift

- scaling to the resolution/refreshrate accepted by the Rift

- convert 2D/3D formats to the side by side format of the Rift

- colour/brightness/contrast/gamma correction

- aspect ratio control/zoom/cropping

- motion interpolation (the software I use so far - Stereoscopic Player - can easily integrate the "Smooth Video Project" expansion and apply motion interpolation to video files. Until now, I was not able to achieve this with external inputs. But future software solutions, or updates to recent ones should enable motion interpolation for external sources. But not at the cost of more latency - so effective interpolation modes are needed.

Thanks for reading so far. For your patients, and to motivate you to continue reading, I add a small video here. It shows the low latency with a Xbox 360 being rifted - on the fly/live/realtime.2D HDMI XBOX works directly with HDMI ports of a Blackmagic cards, as a 2d XBOX signal is not HDCP protected:


XBOX 360 latency test while realtime rifted for Oculus Rift (e5200 WinXP):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FurYs2w98Po

Edit: New video XBOX 360 latency test while realtime rifted for Oculus Rift (Phenom X6 Win7). Read description in post 8 below - no detectable latency:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewdNoYq7MfM

There is small latency, but please consider what is done to the 720p60 output of the 360: Scaling to 1280x800, geometry correction, and (if needed) 2d(3d) format conversion to side by side. More important is that the software (Stereoscopic Player) was never optimized for low latency, nor is a standard Win XP computer I used as Rift PC. I run a not loaded XP system in conjunction with an E5200, 2gb 800mhz RAM and a Nvidia 7200. Why so lame? Because a Windows 7 computer based on a recent Intel Quad at 4ghz, 2400mhz Trident RAM and a 7-Series GTX (thanks Matthias for your water-cooled beast), because this computer ended up with a huge delay on the real time playback. Both Rift computers had no firewall installed, nor where loaded with updates or software. But my XP based capture PC, after disabling GPU scaling and a few other things, was by far faster. So a "2400mhz RAM" Rift computer, with a optimized/lean operating system and an optimized software solution should give an even better latency.

Talking about latency: It can be considered general knowledge, that a "cable" controller gives a better latency in games than a cordless controller. So I wanted to find out if a cordless controller uses an "USB recharge cable" for communication, if the cable is connected. Therefor I used I a high frequency detector as it will visualize any emissions. Surprise surprise surprise: You will see in the small clips, that the PS3 Controller stops emitting when the USB cable is attached, while the XBOX 360 controller continues to communicate via bluetooth. But but but, that was not the big surprise. The surprise was that both consoles, even if wireless lan was deactivated, where emitting at full strength wlan radiation. Even if the console are in standby! "Always on" - somehow in this console generation too.

Xbox 360 emission test - wireless lan always on:

http://www.youtube.com/edit?ns=1&video_id=Pb9lM5LqUUA

XBOX 360 controller bluetooth emission test for latency optimization:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCQ84Z-w0WU

PS3 controller bluetooth emission test for latency optimization and wireless lan always on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxfGTCaH7lQ


Back to the Rift PC. I decided to use a Blackmagic Intensity Pro PCIX card as capture card for the public project, because it is cheap and available for most users. It accepts 1280/720 at 50HZ/59,94HZ/60HZ, 1080p at 23,94hz/24hz/30hz, 1080i at 50hz/59,94hz/60hz, PAL/NTSC ans their progressive versions. Most important is that the card is supported (like newer/better Blackmagic cards) by the Steroscopic Player. Below are a few diagrams of how to playback sources in real time on an Rift PC. The HDMI splitter in the beginning is not an must, but it must work without delay. The Blackmagic produces "black screens" if a supported resolutions comes in unsupported timings. So with the HDMI splitter you can add a control monitor and always see your source. Even if Blackmagic works as intended, you will not need to wear your Rift for configuration.
The blackmagic will capture video/svideo/component at the above mentioned resolutions. Component can be converted to Euro Scart RGB via a transcoder - this conversion is lossless because it is a colour space conversion. So the Rift PC will accept all those mentioned sources. I will not go into detail with old SD and HD sources, but directly step to stereoscopic input of NVidia, Tridef and IZ3d.
The input of Tridef/IZ3D PC´s can go directy to the Rift PC and it´s Blackmagic with 720p60 SBS! 60fps per eye today via HDMI! Well, if you source PC can deliver them to the Rift PC. So you render the game including head tracking on the source PC - and then capture it and realtime rift it to the format of the Oculus Rift on your head.

Tridef/IZ3D stereoscopic 3d 720p60SBS as source - HDMI Splitter - HDMI to Blackmagic Intensity PCIx - Stereoscopic Player/Rift PC - output at 1280x800p6ohz "Side by Side" with Rift geometry.


Nvidia 3D is a little bit more tricky. Again you can directly connect the Nvidia source PC to the Rift PC and capture frame sequential at 720p60 (30hz per eye and depending on your PC also 30 frames per eye) via HDMI. Or a capture card capable of 120hz or a Lumagen Radiance....

Videos:

I hesitated to link videos captured with the Rift PC because of several reasons. First, I do not have a Rift and can not adjust 3D settings and the Stereoscopic Player. I even found a way to increase the low separation in PS3 stereoscopic games, a good deal more than you can see in Uncharted. But that is of no value without a Rift for control. So when you watch the videos, I need feedback if what I did results in a correct Rift format - I can not adapt it to comfortable viewing. My second reason to hesitate with public videos is that this Rift PC is optimized for realtime playback. As you see in the camera video, playback is smooth - even at 60hz frame sequential. But when I capture with the lame but low latency Rift PC, the videos do stutter. So please keep that in mind. I even was forced to deactivate sound recording to unlock capacities.


Thanks again to Matthias for the helping camera hand, and his massive XBOX collection.


NVIDIA stereoscopic test application 720p60 framesequential realtime rifted for Oculus Rift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6GUXpwmA4M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTIk08Zjsg0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_0Pg1NJp5Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmLkHv7-Xk0

Tridef does Trine and then realtime rifted for Oculus Rift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlMsEqIzs0w

Nvidia does Dreamfall and then is realtime rifted for Oculus Rift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69obWIdTQFI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1HgCBb-96g


IZ3D does Trine and then realtime rifted for Oculus Rift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYpwg7xw7Uo


PS3 and Xbox 360 3D (!) sereoscopic (!) gaming on the Oculus Rift:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vptzBX4YMsM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGgeCOZZrPk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnwN2rEDqcc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VArT1wtQ5pU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdUbixsbt58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBsg4wFA0cM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZPEokY_q1A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igwEqCgN-FU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOX0J0wHSUY


Two points are left:

First - to the person giving out free Oculus Rifts to researching persons:
I could need a Rift for improving this solutions and realizing others. Also, as soon as HD-Rift is available, I could adapt the real time rifting solutions to the new panel.

Second - to the staff manager of "Team Oculus Dallas":
Consider this project the attachment of my application. My Job is to identify problems in all (hardware/physical) fields, become an expert and solve them - including the writing of unassailable patents (if patents are possible or necessary.)


Thanks for reading and best regards from Munich, Germany



Marc
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post #96 of 313 Old 09-09-2013, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.ajc.com/feed/lifestyles/the-power-of-experience-oculus-rift/fT8zy/

http://singularityhub.com/2013/09/08/musk-tests-oculus-rift-leap-motion-controller-to-design-3d-printed-rocket-parts/

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2013/09/06/pax-prime-2013-the-oculus-rift-is-an-amazing-gaming-device-and-much-more/

Edit:
I'm beginning to think Oculus Rift should not try to pack everything into a single initial launch model. In fact I now believe they should try to have 2 launch models. #1 should be the $300 model that is optimized to play 480p-720p games exceptionally well. And #2 should be a $400-$600 model that is optimized for 1080p 60 and 4K.. They should also design plug-in capability to marry a Darbee Darblet in the signal chain before the Headset. The Darbee could actually make the low cost model look very close to the premium model without Darbee. It's really exciting to think about all of the possible audio and video combinations one can use with this device. And a quick note on the Hand controller comment in the article above. Oculus is working with a cutting edge developer of controllers to marry up with the headset on an infra-red basis. It was mentioned in one of the articles I posted earlier in this thread. So they already have that base covered. The controller is supposed to be able to link with a PC Kinect for handheld and onscreen VR control.
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post #97 of 313 Old 09-20-2013, 06:25 PM
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An interesting demo from Nvidia that I had not seen until now:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deI1IzbveEQ
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post #98 of 313 Old 09-20-2013, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

An interesting demo from Nvidia that I had not seen until now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deI1IzbveEQ

 

THANKS for that!  That was an excellent bit of information I had not considered.  A micro-lens array!  I would never have guessed they could make that clear without some kind of overlapping artifacts.

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post #99 of 313 Old 09-20-2013, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

An interesting demo from Nvidia that I had not seen until now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deI1IzbveEQ
I was hoping someone would figure out the optics to make VR headset fit into sunglasses. It looks like we're well on our way with this breakthrough. Increase FOV, stick 4K OLED panel per eye and we're good to go.
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post #100 of 313 Old 09-21-2013, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by vtms View Post

I was hoping someone would figure out the optics to make VR headset fit into sunglasses. It looks like we're well on our way with this breakthrough. Increase FOV, stick 4K OLED panel per eye and we're good to go.
It sounded like this is a high FoV option. VR Sunglasses is a nice idea, but the problem is that you have a lot of peripheral vision with sunglasses. For VR to work really well, you need to block out ambient light - this was already a problem with Sony's HMZ headsets, and something I think the Oculus Rift solves quite well. The problem with the current Oculus design is that it's still huge.
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post #101 of 313 Old 09-21-2013, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtms View Post

I was hoping someone would figure out the optics to make VR headset fit into sunglasses. It looks like we're well on our way with this breakthrough. Increase FOV, stick 4K OLED panel per eye and we're good to go.
It sounded like this is a high FoV option. VR Sunglasses is a nice idea, but the problem is that you have a lot of peripheral vision with sunglasses. For VR to work really well, you need to block out ambient light - this was already a problem with Sony's HMZ headsets, and something I think the Oculus Rift solves quite well. The problem with the current Oculus design is that it's still huge.

 

Wow.  Maybe this is a job for dual-axis curved OLED's.......  (OYE!)


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post #102 of 313 Old 09-22-2013, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

It sounded like this is a high FoV option. VR Sunglasses is a nice idea, but the problem is that you have a lot of peripheral vision with sunglasses. For VR to work really well, you need to block out ambient light - this was already a problem with Sony's HMZ headsets, and something I think the Oculus Rift solves quite well. The problem with the current Oculus design is that it's still huge.
That's true. Eyes have to be completely enclosed, so maybe sunglasses form factor should be left for plain 3D TV experience while VR would require something resembling swim goggles.
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post #103 of 313 Old 09-22-2013, 06:20 AM
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That's true. Eyes have to be completely enclosed, so maybe sunglasses form factor should be left for plain 3D TV experience while VR would require something resembling swim goggles.
I think the "ski goggles" design of the Oculus Rift is good - it's just too big. Fit it into the size of a regular pair of ski goggles and I think that's going to be pretty good. Swim goggles would be uncomfortable for long periods of time due to the smaller area of contact.
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post #104 of 313 Old 09-22-2013, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtms View Post

That's true. Eyes have to be completely enclosed, so maybe sunglasses form factor should be left for plain 3D TV experience while VR would require something resembling swim goggles.
I think the "ski goggles" design of the Oculus Rift is good - it's just too big. Fit it into the size of a regular pair of ski goggles and I think that's going to be pretty good. Swim goggles would be uncomfortable for long periods of time due to the smaller area of contact.

 

There used to be something that had a very brief [stupid] popularity run in the 80's out here called glacier glasses (sometimes called glacier goggles, though those were usually more industrial looking).

 

 

Maybe something like that someday.  Shutting out the outside, plus larger displays.  Still sunglasses light.


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post #105 of 313 Old 09-22-2013, 09:06 AM
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Ok, I got it. Google "ultralight sleep mask". It would be something like that for VR.
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post #106 of 313 Old 09-23-2013, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

An interesting demo from Nvidia that I had not seen until now:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deI1IzbveEQ

Thanks for that demo Chron. It is fascinating. Looks like we might have an arms race of sorts going on...with 4k-8k/OLED leading the display industry to ultra HD in huge sizes. And Virtual Reality/4k/3D/OLED leading a charge to micro displays sizes, with Big screen impact. Nvidia joining this battle is a very big deal. Especially when viewed in context of their new Handheld video/Gaming/Controller Handheld device. I will post your link over in the Oculus Rift HTPC thread also. Great stuff!

@tgm1024: I'm with you on the curved OLED. I bet second gen Oculus Rift actually has it.
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post #107 of 313 Old 09-24-2013, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

@tgm1024: I'm with you on the curved OLED. I bet second gen Oculus Rift actually has it.

 

Yeah, but I'm not sure myself.  In theory that would be ok per eye, but I don't think they could pull it off, not even single axis.  I'm fairly sure they'd have to have each pair of glasses so perfectly tailored to the user's facial structure that the curve was an exact larger diameter circle with the same center as your eye.  IMO, move that to the side a millimeter and you'll likely have distortion out the ying-yang.  It's not like a curved TV on your desk.


WARNING: You have now entered a no @#$%tard zone. Please gather your anti-vaccine propaganda nonsense and slowly back out the way you came in.
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post #108 of 313 Old 10-01-2013, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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This article is right on point:

http://news.msn.com/science-technology/strap-on-your-computer-wearable-tech-taking-off

The marketplace is moving fast in the direction of "wearable" technology. Audio is already the de facto standard in this explosive youth genre with headphones. Next up is HD video and gaming IMO. Cell phones have already made a huge impact in HDTV viewing. Many of today's youth do most of their HDTV viewing on their Cellphones! The link with mobile technology, along with emerging flat panel display technologies like OLED, 4K and 3D, Smart TV will continue to merge. But with its perfect growth engine to accelerate this trend, growth could be explosive. That engine will be "Virtual Reality" viewing and interaction, IMO.

VR with devices & systems like Oculus Rift, Valve (SteamOS, SteamBox & Games...HL3?) and Sony's upcoming VR display will hit the market place like lightening bolts in late 2014. Video gaming will be the early beneficiary of this convergence of revolutionary technologies. All sectors of videogames (PC, Consoles, Mobile) could experience explosive growth because of Oculus Rift and Sony's innovations. Seeing the full potential...others will join the fray. Companies like Samsung, LG, Toshiba, Microsoft, Apple, Google will form unique development alliances to "Jetstream" this profitable new category. Electronic Retail will love it because of its storewide category impact. The "Big Screen" display niche will see accelerated growth as people who adopt immersive VR micro displays like Oculus Rift, will want a rough facsimile of the experiences for normal, non VR viewing. Blu-Ray, DVD and Streamed HD movie viewing will experience a renaissance because people will finally see, for the first time, what immersive, IMMAXX like, 3D, Ultra HD movie really looks like on its grandest stage (potentially). Ironically that world will be the micro display world of Virtual Reality. I can even foresee the day when blockbuster movies like Avatar 2 will be produced and released for digital Distribution/Blu-Ray release into the VR World first. Which ultimately could force all standalone theaters to go the Full 180 degree IMMAXX route just to survive.

I can't wait for this launch to happen. I have zero early adoption interest in the new consoles launching in 2013, because of Oculus Rift. I have built a massively over powered new PC to take full advantage of OR/VR. I'll buy the first console that integrates with my PC, offers VR compatibility and can link to my Oculus Rift display. Otherwise, its a no go. Sony could be the exception because they are already "rolling their own". Nintendo ironically could be number 1. Because I would bet the ranch that Nintendo will license with Oculus Rift to link their mobile devices and WiiU to OR in 2014. If for no other reason than to support the Oculus launch and defend their game space. If Nintendo does that, they could totally upstage & disrupt the Xbox One, PS4 launch momentum in 2014. While giving Oculus Rift proprietary access to Nintendo's huge game library. Along with their army of youth. I would immediately buy a WiiU in 2014 if Nintendo did such a bold move. That would be a next Gen game changer IMO.

Bottom line...Virtual Reality viewing and gaming is here to stay. Its imprint will ultimately stretch into many future worlds and platforms like Medicine, engineering, deep sea exploration, upper atmosphere exploration and etc, For us consumers the technology will be wearable, transportable, ultra mobile, flexible, compatible and accessible across all social media. And I predict it will be take your breadth away cool to youth of the world.
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post #109 of 313 Old 11-10-2013, 12:24 AM
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All in which you have said and then some.
Another part you left out is price.
I bought my LGPA75U projector back in August because I got frustrated that no companies that produce projectors are coming out this year with a affordable LED 1080P projector.
None, many on here at AVS have been waiting and talking about hoping in the pasts years that maybe, this year might be it but left disappointed.
I got frustrated at the end of summer that nothing has come out yet with the knowledge of the Oculus Rift.
I know the short coming of the DK1 and it's lower resolution and was waiting on the consumer version.
That was what my thinking was all the way up to August because it was now or never to get another LED projector for me for I don't know when a financial crises would come for me this year as I would need money to fix my car or something else.
So I bought the LGPA75U thinking that either I wait for some LED projector to come out next year and this projector would hold me over.
That was until ? LG introduced the new LG PF80G and the LG PF85U.
The problem is ? it's still not available here in the USA yet.
And that was that until ?
I learned a few weeks ago that Oculus Rift relented that they would not be coming out with a 2nd dev kit.
So now ? they will be coming out with a 2nd HD DK2.
So now ? do I go with the higher resolution 1080P LG projector ? or use the one I have now and wait for the Oculus Rift HD DK2 ?
The LGPF85U we don't know what the street price will be, and I can only guess that the new HD DK2 will be around $ 400.
If LG does not release that projector soon I might as well wait a few more months for Oculus Rift to offer their HD DK2.
If I go that route then ? I save $ 200 with my current projector and the HD DK2 and I will have the best of both worlds.
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post #110 of 313 Old 11-10-2013, 05:22 AM
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No intention to be anal but could Oculus Rift be now looking overhyped in view of new development ?

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post #111 of 313 Old 11-10-2013, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

No intention to be anal but could Oculus Rift be now looking overhyped in view of new development ?
Sounds like a picoprojector for each eye. After vague claims like "80 inch screen at 8ft" I'll wait and see for myself.
Sony sounded like there was a big screen with their headset, but in reality the 45 degree FoV was tiny. The "glasses" style rather than "goggles" style means it's not going to do a good job blocking out your surroundings.
And I don't see a price - part of why Oculus is a big deal, is that it's cheap and you get a huge FoV.
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post #112 of 313 Old 11-10-2013, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Sounds like a picoprojector for each eye. After vague claims like "80 inch screen at 8ft" I'll wait and see for myself.
Sony sounded like there was a big screen with their headset, but in reality the 45 degree FoV was tiny. The "glasses" style rather than "goggles" style means it's not going to do a good job blocking out your surroundings.
And I don't see a price - part of why Oculus is a big deal, is that it's cheap and you get a huge FoV.

Avegant claims were verified by the story writer test. What is appealing in the Avegant system based on the report: invisible pixel spacing, vibrancy of pictures, eye relaxation. There seems to be no issues with getting this system to consumer level pricing since it does not require very high resolution imagers. What they were showing was lab prototype, putting this into goggles is obvious next step. CES should be checking milestone for this system since consumer version show is promised.

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post #113 of 313 Old 11-11-2013, 08:20 PM
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Ok I'll admit it that you sold me on this new Avegant VR device over the Oculus Rift.
Now I was wondering ? will this has more resolution per eye over the new HD 1080P Oculus Rift with Avegant's WXGA resolution.
So ? this is 1,280x768 per eye compared to the Oculus Rift's half of 1920×1080 per eye.
My major concern with this is long term effects on the eyes and retinas.
Would there be any damage to the eyes ?
Also the price is another factor.
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post #114 of 313 Old 11-12-2013, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

No intention to be anal but could Oculus Rift be now looking overhyped in view of new development ?

I don't see anything special about the Avegant. "an 80-inch panel viewed from eight feet away" tells you that it doesn't fill your vision like the Oculus Rift is designed to, and is easily a lesser FoV than what you can get with a front projector. It's "a bit like the Oculus Rift" which is probably accurate. A bit!
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post #115 of 313 Old 11-12-2013, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLPProjectorfan View Post

Ok I'll admit it that you sold me on this new Avegant VR device over the Oculus Rift. Now I was wondering ? will this has more resolution per eye over the new HD 1080P Oculus Rift with Avegant's WXGA resolution.
So ? this is 1,280x768 per eye compared to the Oculus Rift's half of 1920×1080 per eye. My major concern with this is long term effects on the eyes and retinas.
Would there be any damage to the eyes ? Also the price is another factor.

According to the report, the advantage of Avegant is that projected picture looks completely seamless, no pixel spacings are visible and moreover the picture is fabulously detailed & vibrant. There thus seems to be no need for the resolution higher than the XGA 1024x768 used in the prototype. Light level is so low there can not be any damage to the eyes. More concern for me is the optics, focusing system, and potential eye/eye muscle/brain fatigue from prolonged viewing. Perhaps there are other issues as well. This should be clarified at the CES where they are promising to demo an almost ready consumer product. Thus in less than 2 months the proof will be on the table. Since the concept is based on digital micromirror chips which are readily available and affordable I do not see any problem with price or increasing the resolution if needed. Custom made micromirror chips for matching to the eye reception area could also be possible.

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post #116 of 313 Old 11-12-2013, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

According to the report, the advantage of Avegant is that projected picture looks completely seamless, no pixel spacings are visible and moreover the picture is fabulously detailed & vibrant. There thus seems to be no need for the resolution higher than the XGA 1024x768 used in the prototype.

Reading the report, this didn't sound believable to me. How can you get great looking, detailed images out of low resolution? The information just isn't there.
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post #117 of 313 Old 11-12-2013, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Airion View Post

Reading the report, this didn't sound believable to me. How can you get great looking, detailed images out of low resolution? The information just isn't there.
Yes, this the question. But eye projection it completely different from normal viewing. I believe 100% that pixel spacing was invisible and that pictures were vibrant. That could be contributing to the overall impression of high resolution. This of course is speculation, real clocks are counting down to the CES biggrin.gif.

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post #118 of 313 Old 11-12-2013, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

According to the report, the advantage of Avegant is that projected picture looks completely seamless, no pixel spacings are visible and moreover the picture is fabulously detailed & vibrant. There thus seems to be no need for the resolution higher than the XGA 1024x768 used in the prototype. Light level is so low there can not be any damage to the eyes. More concern for me is the optics, focusing system, and potential eye/eye muscle/brain fatigue from prolonged viewing. Perhaps there are other issues as well. This should be clarified at the CES where they are promising to demo an almost ready consumer product. Thus in less than 2 months the proof will be on the table. Since the concept is based on digital micromirror chips which are readily available and affordable I do not see any problem with price or increasing the resolution if needed. Custom made micromirror chips for matching to the eye reception area could also be possible.
There is far more to resolution than simply being able to see the gaps between the pixels. Take anything you read on the big mainstream tech press sites with a giant grain of salt.
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post #119 of 313 Old 11-12-2013, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

According to the report, the advantage of Avegant is that projected picture looks completely seamless, no pixel spacings are visible and moreover the picture is fabulously detailed & vibrant. There thus seems to be no need for the resolution higher than the XGA 1024x768 used in the prototype. Light level is so low there can not be any damage to the eyes. More concern for me is the optics, focusing system, and potential eye/eye muscle/brain fatigue from prolonged viewing. Perhaps there are other issues as well. This should be clarified at the CES where they are promising to demo an almost ready consumer product. Thus in less than 2 months the proof will be on the table. Since the concept is based on digital micromirror chips which are readily available and affordable I do not see any problem with price or increasing the resolution if needed. Custom made micromirror chips for matching to the eye reception area could also be possible.


Avegant method is clearly superior. No eye strain or fatigue, superior image with seamless structure, cheaper components. The chief hurdle is improving the field of view for gaming. The current prototype for Avegant only has a 45 degree FOV, while the Occulus Rift has around 90-110 FOV. Supposedly Avegant can eventually get it to 100 degrees FOV, with improving the focusing and eye tracking. If they actually can, I think their method would be the one to win out.
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post #120 of 313 Old 11-13-2013, 07:43 PM
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I always thought that the higher the resolution the better.
The higher the resoultion turns into more detail, more pixals, better color, less eye fatigue.
No matter what though, this is all good in helping one day thought research and devolopement to restore sight to those who are blind.
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