plasma flickering - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 03-23-2013, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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This is not a plasma bashing post. More of a curiosity. I was at CostCo yesterday and saw something I haven't seen in years. A flickering display. Of the dozens of displays on display there was one that had a horrendous amount of flickering, a Samsung (I believe) plasma. Granted CostCo with its KiloWatts of discharge lighting is a bit extreme but does anyone out there have a problem of flickering under Fluorescent or other discharge lighting?
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post #2 of 15 Old 03-23-2013, 05:58 PM
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I'd think it was more an issue with the settings on the set, probably excessive contrast. Looking at a plasma at Costco is like tits on a bull.

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post #3 of 15 Old 03-23-2013, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't doubt the TVs at CostCo aren't set up properly. I'm sure they all are pretty whacked. It's just this one TV was flickering badly. I'm of the opinion that it was the 60Hz of the lights -vs- the 59.94Hz video refresh rate, reminiscent of CRT computer monitors viewed under fluorescent lighting.
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post #4 of 15 Old 03-23-2013, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

I don't doubt the TVs at CostCo aren't set up properly. I'm sure they all are pretty whacked. It's just this one TV was flickering badly. I'm of the opinion that it was the 60Hz of the lights -vs- the 59.94Hz video refresh rate, reminiscent of CRT computer monitors viewed under fluorescent lighting.
u

I'd think it's more the ABL

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post #5 of 15 Old 03-23-2013, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I'd think it was more an issue with the settings on the set, probably excessive contrast. Looking at a plasma at Costco is like tits on a bull.
That's not a tit...
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post #6 of 15 Old 03-23-2013, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I'd think it was more an issue with the settings on the set, probably excessive contrast. Looking at a plasma at Costco is like tits on a bull.
That's not a tit...

Not that it's a tit vs not a tit, but how useful a tit...

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post #7 of 15 Old 03-24-2013, 12:28 AM
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All plasmas flicker. The problem is that the higher the refresh rate is, the worse image quality gets, so they all refresh at 60Hz when displaying 60Hz content. When sent a 24p signal they may display it at 48/72/96Hz. There is less flicker with higher refresh rates, but worse image quality, so they usually work at 48/72Hz. In PAL regions, I think they all display 50Hz signals at 100Hz, because 50Hz flickers too much. (Pioneer offered a 75Hz option, but that causes judder with 50p content)

LED is the only flicker-free option, and only if you disable backlight scanning/black frame insertion. (CCFL LCD will flicker too, if you turn the backlight down)
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post #8 of 15 Old 03-24-2013, 09:12 AM
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Flickering is the major reason I dumped my Panasonic VT25 before it was a year old (that and the floating black issue). I noticed it from the very instant that I turned the set on to run the break-in images. It reminded me of what you used to see on older CRT computer monitors with a cheap video card running 60 hz refresh rate. It seemed to be worse on lighter colors and solid images for me. I thought I could get used to it or learn to live with it but in the end it was just too annoying for me to live with on a daily basis. The VT25 replaced an older Panasonic commercial plasma monitor and I never saw any flickering on that display so all plasmas not created equal in regards to flickering.

I believe the amount this is visible varies by individual. It seems most people either don't see it or it is so slight as to not be an issue. But for me it was a deal breaker. On the other hand, I have a very hard time seeing the motion blur that many people find objectionable on some displays.

In the end I replaced the VT25 with an LCD. Even with the inherent flaws found in the current LCD technology I find it more enjoyable to watch than the plasma it replaced. The VT25 was superior in many critical areas but the flickering made the overall viewing experience poor for me.
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post #9 of 15 Old 03-24-2013, 10:05 AM
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I have my BD player set to 24p and rarely ever notice any flickering when watching most program content and even BD's on my PDP.



Ian

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post #10 of 15 Old 07-24-2013, 10:41 AM
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I had no idea plasmas were prone to flicker until we bought one this weekend... Flicker isn't something mentioned in plasma reviews (not any that I have read anyway), and it was only at the last minute that we decided to buy a plasma over an LCD. Like Picasso Moon, the flicker is quite noticeable with bright and or solid colors, and for us it's also a dealbreaker. This particular model (a 60" Samsung F5500) has other issues as well, (the PenTile screen being just as unfortunate as the flicker) so we are exchanging it for a 60" Sony R550. The viewing angles on the plasma are great, but not worth enduring the eight other issues we have with the set.
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post #11 of 15 Old 07-24-2013, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by setguillaume View Post

I had no idea plasmas were prone to flicker until we bought one this weekend... Flicker isn't something mentioned in plasma reviews (not any that I have read anyway)

A bad set or one with aggressive subfield clustering?, but in my experience yea they usually don't mention little faults like that in plasma reviews (flicker, ABL, screen door effect, screen reflctions, daytime contrast ect) but happily point out similar LCD flaws. Usually the differences between the two are just two sides of the same coin, each having advantages/ disadvantages.
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post #12 of 15 Old 07-24-2013, 01:52 PM
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I just wrote this explanation in another thread

Each displayed frame in a plasma display is "compiled" or "integrated" from a series of short light pulses. 10-14 pulses create one solid frame that we see. However, these individual pulses have brightness weights ranging from very dim to very bright and they are ordered from darkest to brightest or vice versa. This creates a pattern of dark-light-dark-light-dark-light that we see as 60Hz flicker. The light portion is effectively around 30-35% of the frame time which reduces the eye tracking blur which has been explained a thousand times here on AVS.

The 60Hz flicker has quite a long duty cycle, contains significant phosphor decay, and is in most cases a full screen strobe AFAIK. This may explain why it is less noticeable than CRT flicker that has a short duty cycle, less phosphor decay, and a raster scan.

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post #13 of 15 Old 07-25-2013, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borf View Post

A bad set or one with aggressive subfield clustering?, but in my experience yea they usually don't mention little faults like that in plasma reviews (flicker, ABL, screen door effect, screen reflctions, daytime contrast ect) but happily point out similar LCD flaws. Usually the differences between the two are just two sides of the same coin, each having advantages/ disadvantages.

It may well be a bad set, but after additional research, we've taken it to be the nature of the plasma beast. Were there no flicker and no screen door, we'd keep the set, despite a few other objections (styling, grey screen when off, etc). As it stands though, the Sony is the only other set in our price range that we think/hope will make us happy.
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post #14 of 15 Old 07-25-2013, 09:35 AM
 
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They can tell you it's some setting issue blah blah blah, but many people see flicker in plasmas. I tried a lot of Panasonic plasmas, such as the ST30 and ST50 and got horrible head discomfort to where it was impossible to keep them. Yet it's not even CLOSE to as bad on the kuro elite, which shows not all plasmas have the same amount. I also went to a store and looked at the panny ST60 and right off the bat I noticed the flicker in the store, which I rarely do.
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post #15 of 15 Old 07-25-2013, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

They can tell you it's some setting issue blah blah blah, but many people see flicker in plasmas. I tried a lot of Panasonic plasmas, such as the ST30 and ST50 and got horrible head discomfort to where it was impossible to keep them. Yet it's not even CLOSE to as bad on the kuro elite, which shows not all plasmas have the same amount. I also went to a store and looked at the panny ST60 and right off the bat I noticed the flicker in the store, which I rarely do.

It's much more likely certain people's vision are more prone to noticing this, and there aren't as "many" of you as you might think. Yes, you are a mutant. smile.gif

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