4 Reasons the 3D TV Movement is Already Dead - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 398 Old 07-19-2013, 03:31 AM
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It's because they see a focus on 3D as a threat to image quality elsewhere.
If companies are working on 3D, then they're not working on contrast, motion, color etc. (at least how they see it)

I don't mind it. I never use 3D on my set, but when I upgrade to 4K, I want passive 3D and will definitely make use of it there - but only for games.
Active 3D required manufacturers to finally make real improvements to motion handling on their sets - development on that front had been stagnating for a while until 3D came along, and then you got things like Panasonic using new phosphors and panel driving methods, and LCD manufacturers realizing they had to significantly improve motion - to the point where it is now better than plasma.
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post #62 of 398 Old 07-19-2013, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

It's because they see a focus on 3D as a threat to image quality elsewhere.

 

I'm sorry, I'm not even sure it's as healthy a reaction as that much of the time.

 

I'll joke about such things as Greek Yogurt being a silly fad, or nearly anything else, but it's done with an air of absurdity that I try to make sure folks can recognize.  I try to make it sound like an unhealthy rant.  However, there's something deeply truly unhealthy about this 3D hatred thing---the glee they have at what they perceive as its demise.  Just guessing, but it's almost as if they somehow all along have felt put upon by others that they erroneously think have been saying "haha, look at the technology we have that you don't have", and it's their knee-jerk reaction.

 

Let alone that having 3D channels removed does not spell the end of 3D.  It just spells the end of 3D channels.  I never saw 3D as a daily content kind of thing anyway....I'm not sure why it was attempted.  3D to me (as stated but rephrased) is all about aiding in being drawn further into a storyline and should be "transparently" doing so.


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post #63 of 398 Old 07-21-2013, 09:30 AM
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As part of cinematic history, 3d has its place, and I choose to enjoy it with specific films....mainly older entries like Dial M for Murder, Creature from the Black Lagoon, and the upcoming release of House of Wax, and hope that other gems of the 50's that were filmed in 3d can someday become available too.

John Wayne fans hope that Hondo will be available one day.

3d is likely an acquired taste for many....so be it.
Let those of us that enjoy it do so without scorn.

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post #64 of 398 Old 07-21-2013, 10:29 AM
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Don't people say "they said that about color TV too!" here all the time?
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post #65 of 398 Old 07-21-2013, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by megdagooch View Post

Don't people say "they said that about color TV too!" here all the time?

 

Yes.  And for good reason.  Color isn't supposed to slap you in the face.  You don't use color for color's sake.  You don't see people making the following statement (co-opted from a statement made above):

 

Example of similarly broken logic:
Yet these are precisely the types of "wow-making" moments film-makers seem to be shying away from for fear of being seen as too cheesy, or distracting the audience.  They are going for subtlety - a "generally enhanced sense of realism" that, because we've already had a general sense of realism from black and white, isn't registering as adding much to the color experience.

 

....which establishes the broken premise that the color experience is somehow color for color's sake; and further that we don't get much of an improvement over black & white.  Completely backwards, and the same logic that many are attempting to apply to 3D.


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post #66 of 398 Old 07-21-2013, 11:15 AM
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I read (only a little) about when color TV first came out. People wondered why they needed color when B&W was just fine. It was thought to be showy and gimmicky and nobody thought it would last.
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post #67 of 398 Old 07-21-2013, 01:26 PM
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Let's be honest, one of the main reasons 3D as a home display technology hasn't taken off is because the quality you get from home displays just doesn't match what you get in the theaters. If you want plasma (and most serious movie viewers will) then you have active 3D. Active shutter glasses are annoying at best; most people can see the flicker and a decent percentage are bothered enough by it that they won't really want to watch a whole movie. Colors also get a bit strange, which kind of defeats one of the main points of going with plasma. The alternative is to get an LCD panel (not happening) that does half resolution passive 3D. Less headaches and eye strain, but now you have poor black levels and half resolution video, not to mention LCD motion blur. I'm not sure what the 3D quality is like from digital projectors at this point, but that's such a small market segment anyway that it hardly matters.

If this whole thing had started with theater-quality home 3D we might be seeing a different outcome, but it didn't and people aren't impressed with what has been available so far. 4K is the new marketing push, and while I see little reason for it below projector screen sizes (4K becomes desirable if you're going past the 80" range), it technically has the potential to at least introduce tolerable 3D (1080P passive 3D), though it'll still mean accepting the black levels and motion blur of LCD, something a lot of us will never do.
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post #68 of 398 Old 07-21-2013, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by megdagooch View Post

I read (only a little) about when color TV first came out. People wondered why they needed color when B&W was just fine. It was thought to be showy and gimmicky and nobody thought it would last.

I was around when the switch from B&W to color happened (having one of the first color sets on the block) and I can tell you that statement is far from the truth. Sure, when color was first announced people were wondering why, but once you saw it in a store front window, there wasn't any doubt that color was the wave of the future. I still enjoy B&W television but only in the context of the time is was presented in.
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post #69 of 398 Old 07-21-2013, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by megdagooch View Post

I read (only a little) about when color TV first came out. People wondered why they needed color when B&W was just fine. It was thought to be showy and gimmicky and nobody thought it would last.

I still remember the day my grandparents got a color tv, cost a fortune in the day, about 4 months wages. My brother and I were mesmerised, the whole neighbourhood were in their little lounge room and the reactions were ones of amazement. Your statement above that nobody thought it would last is utter BS.

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post #70 of 398 Old 07-21-2013, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by megdagooch View Post

I read (only a little) about when color TV first came out. People wondered why they needed color when B&W was just fine. It was thought to be showy and gimmicky and nobody thought it would last.

I was around when the switch from B&W to color happened (having one of the first color sets on the block) and I can tell you that statement is far from the truth. Sure, when color was first announced people were wondering why, but once you saw it in a store front window, there wasn't any doubt that color was the wave of the future. I still enjoy B&W television but only in the context of the time is was presented in.

 

Whether or not the public instantly recognized it as "the future" or not is far from the point, and in fact I was afraid it would splinter this discussion into whether or not it was.

 

The point is that no one believed that color was there for color sake.  There was no complaint of "color just isn't catching on".  The reason is because color was viewed as a way to step further into realism.  Somehow people have simplified the notion of 3D into this argument that the 3D itself is what is important, when it's the result of 3D that is.  3D should be viewed as a vehicle to better real-life simulation and story immersion, NOT some eye candy that is an attribute all on its own.

 

To this extent, the advent of color and the attitudes surrounding it are dead-on perfect conceptual models.


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post #71 of 398 Old 07-21-2013, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by headlesschickens View Post

Let's be honest, one of the main reasons 3D as a home display technology hasn't taken off

 

Honest?  I'm not in any way being dishonest to disagree with all of this weird 3D bashing.  Further, I'd argue that we're dealing with a misnamed concept here.  It's not "3D".  It's two differing concepts, each with a longer name (if we're to be accurate), and neither is "movie 3D":

  • TV 3D with flickering awkward battery requiring headache inducing expensive glasses
  • and TV 3D with comfortable easy on the eyes no flicker no-battery dirt-cheap glasses

 

If you view the two as related but distinct notions, then you have to be careful when you say "3D as a home display technology hasn't taken off".  I believe that passive actually has.  It's the channel content that isn't taking off.  I'd further argue that there are a lot of folks who disliked 3D when active but are pleasantly surprised and reframing their opinions once they've lived with passive for awhile.  540 lines and all for HD sets.


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post #72 of 398 Old 07-21-2013, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by crazy4daisy View Post

I still remember the day my grandparents got a color tv, cost a fortune in the day, about 4 months wages. My brother and I were mesmerised, the whole neighbourhood were in their little lounge room and the reactions were ones of amazement. Your statement above that nobody thought it would last is utter BS.
I
I read it in the history of TV article and color TV was around MUCH before people started buying color TV sets. The facts speak for themselves. It took many years before people actually BOUGHT a color TV. Look it up. 3D TV has been quoted many times over as being like color TV. I'm not making it up, just repeating the information that is out there.
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post #73 of 398 Old 07-21-2013, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by crazy4daisy View Post

I still remember the day my grandparents got a color tv, cost a fortune in the day, about 4 months wages. My brother and I were mesmerised, the whole neighbourhood were in their little lounge room and the reactions were ones of amazement. Your statement above that nobody thought it would last is utter BS.

Right, and the first, last and only time 3D mesmerized most people was Avatar in the theaters... In the home? I haven't even heard many anecdotes of people being blown away.
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I
I read it in the history of TV article and color TV was around MUCH before people started buying color TV sets. The facts speak for themselves. It took many years before people actually BOUGHT a color TV. Look it up. 3D TV has been quoted many times over as being like color TV. I'm not making it up, just repeating the information that is out there.

Except it isn't, And it's growing far more slowly despite millions of homes already owning a 3-D ready set. Ask yourself what changes that equation. Ask yourself if any of those things are actually happening?

While calling 3-D dead is perhaps an overstatement, it's certainly in some sort of cryo-deep freeze awaiting a medical breakthrough that can cure its current terminal illness.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #74 of 398 Old 07-22-2013, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by megdagooch View Post

I
I read it in the history of TV article and color TV was around MUCH before people started buying color TV sets. The facts speak for themselves. It took many years before people actually BOUGHT a color TV. Look it up. 3D TV has been quoted many times over as being like color TV. I'm not making it up, just repeating the information that is out there.

The only reason people didn't buy colour TV sets was because they couldn't afford them, not because they thought colour was a gimmick.

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post #75 of 398 Old 07-22-2013, 04:46 AM
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Eh I don't understand why making sure 3D is in the "dead" list is so important on this site. The posts definitely have a tone of animosity that I just don't get. I had plans on buying a 3D projector and in the future getting 3D glasses and movies. Not right away, because I was hoping the prices would drop a little. Anyway I ended up with the projector, 6 pr. of 3Dglasses and I think 14 movies. People come to see the movie and ohhhhhh and ahhhhh and say "I had no idea it could be THIS GOOD. IN YOUR OWN HOME!!" People ask that we show 3D movies specifically. So I think that my real life experience is probably skewing my opinion on 3D a little bit.
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post #76 of 398 Old 07-22-2013, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4daisy View Post

I still remember the day my grandparents got a color tv, cost a fortune in the day, about 4 months wages. My brother and I were mesmerised, the whole neighbourhood were in their little lounge room and the reactions were ones of amazement. Your statement above that nobody thought it would last is utter BS.

Right, and the first, last and only time 3D mesmerized most people was Avatar in the theaters... In the home? I haven't even heard many anecdotes of people being blown away.

 

(Not including me), I see it plenty in the R550A thread:

 

Here

 

Here

 

Here

 

Here

 

(Etc.)  Pay attention to the way they often seem very pleasantly surprised.

 

Keep in mind:

  • I only walked backward to ~post 1500 of ~1700 posts.  Tip of the iceberg.
  • This is from just one model (R550A), of one tv manufacturer (Sony)
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post #77 of 398 Old 07-22-2013, 09:00 AM
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The only reason people didn't buy colour TV sets was because they couldn't afford them, not because they thought colour was a gimmick.

I don't know. We weren't rich or well off by any stretch of the imagination but my parents bought one (an RCA set) once the local tv store had them, and I never went hungry because of it.
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post #78 of 398 Old 07-22-2013, 09:16 AM
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Eh I don't understand why making sure 3D is in the "dead" list is so important on this site. The posts definitely have a tone of animosity that I just don't get. I had plans on buying a 3D projector and in the future getting 3D glasses and movies. Not right away, because I was hoping the prices would drop a little. Anyway I ended up with the projector, 6 pr. of 3Dglasses and I think 14 movies. People come to see the movie and ohhhhhh and ahhhhh and say "I had no idea it could be THIS GOOD. IN YOUR OWN HOME!!" People ask that we show 3D movies specifically. So I think that my real life experience is probably skewing my opinion on 3D a little bit.
I agree with you 100%. Everybody that comes over and watches a 3D movie on our Sony 70R550A can't shut up about the experience. They all want to come back. Not one single person complained about wearing glasses or about headaches. Were talking about people in a retirement community here so I would think none are predisposed to like 3D. Just the opposite. The only thing holding back mass acceptance of 3D in this country is a complete lack of quality content. No broadcasting company or production studio is willing to spend the $$$$ on top quality 3D cameras and develop a delivery system to the home. A few sporting events isn't going to cut it. National broadcast TV on CBS,NBC,ABC,FOX,ESPN,PBS is what it will take and they need to be totally convinced on profitability. You can't compare the dawning of 3D today to the dawning of color 65 years ago. Back then the stakes were low and the mindset of people in general was much much more adventurous. That mindset died many years and a few wars ago.
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post #79 of 398 Old 07-22-2013, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
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Eh I don't understand why making sure 3D is in the "dead" list is so important on this site. The posts definitely have a tone of animosity that I just don't get. I had plans on buying a 3D projector and in the future getting 3D glasses and movies. Not right away, because I was hoping the prices would drop a little. Anyway I ended up with the projector, 6 pr. of 3Dglasses and I think 14 movies. People come to see the movie and ohhhhhh and ahhhhh and say "I had no idea it could be THIS GOOD. IN YOUR OWN HOME!!" People ask that we show 3D movies specifically. So I think that my real life experience is probably skewing my opinion on 3D a little bit.
I agree with you 100%. Everybody that comes over and watches a 3D movie on our Sony 70R550A can't shut up about the experience. They all want to come back. Not one single person complained about wearing glasses or about headaches. Were talking about people in a retirement community here so I would think none are predisposed to like 3D. Just the opposite.

 

Ironic you say this.  My 88 y.o. father in law was over just yesterday.  He sat down in front of my Sony 60R550A and watched baseball with the 2D to 3D conversion.  I kept being apologetic about it, and he insisted that I not change it and was wowed the entire time.  As far as the impact of the glasses themselves: The glasses were completely comfortable to him.  They're more comfy than sunglasses and people often wear those for 8 hours at a time with no complaint.


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post #80 of 398 Old 07-22-2013, 10:28 AM
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I don't know. We weren't rich or well off by any stretch of the imagination but my parents bought one (an RCA set) once the local tv store had them, and I never went hungry because of it.
We weren't poor but we didnt get our first color TV until I was 12 years old...which was mid 80s. We had a working B&W with no real reason to replace it. That's just how it went around here
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post #81 of 398 Old 07-22-2013, 10:43 AM
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We bought our first color set in the early 60's.
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post #82 of 398 Old 07-22-2013, 10:59 AM
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With me, it is simple. When a movie is shot in 3D and shown theatrically in 3D, then the proper way to display the movie in the Home Theater is in 3D.

Can personal preference overcome this? Of course it can. It is just as valid to alter a 3D movie to 2D as it is to alter the original aspect ratio to fit the aspect ratio of your display, or to alter the surround soundtrack to stereo for headphones or TV speakers.

It is in fact the same exact "sin". As is re-mastering a 2D film in 3D.

For example, I would display Avatar in 3D. But Titanic was shot in 2D, and even if James Cameron is the one re-mastering it, it is still a 2D movie.

I'm not noticing any fewer theatrical 3D movies, there seem to be more of them. True Home Theater enthusiasts would buy such movies in 3D disks, and display them on a 3D display.

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post #83 of 398 Old 07-22-2013, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

We bought our first color set in the early 60's.
Wow!!! Maybe it's the small town area we are in, my mom told me about a see through prism type piece that people who didnt have color TV would put in front of the screen to "simulate" color TV. She said that was in the 60s.
Apparently ABC started broadcasting g in color in the early 50s but if you didn't have a color set you couldn't see it. They stopped that until they came up with a signal for B&W TVs. I don't understand all the details but the history of color TV is very interesting!
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Wow!!! Maybe it's the small town area we are in, my mom told me about a see through prism type piece that people who didnt have color TV would put in front of the screen to "simulate" color TV. She said that was in the 60s.
Apparently ABC started broadcasting g in color in the early 50s but if you didn't have a color set you couldn't see it. They stopped that until they came up with a signal for B&W TVs. I don't understand all the details but the history of color TV is very interesting!

I guess I've already dated myself but I vaguely remember something like that when we still had a b&w set. My hometown had a population of about 20,000 when I was growing up. I think CBS was the first to broadcast in color but I could be wrong.
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post #85 of 398 Old 07-22-2013, 01:16 PM
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NBC, in November of 1953, with the Colgate Comedy Hour....then Tournament of Roses Parade, Jan. '54.

Primetime shows like Wonderful World of Disney and Bonanza followed....as time passed more and more programs were shown in color.
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post #86 of 398 Old 07-22-2013, 05:29 PM
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Bonanza was a must see family show in our family. The next one I can remember actually wanting to watch was The Flintstones. Yaba Daba Do!!!.
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post #87 of 398 Old 07-22-2013, 07:05 PM
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Ironic you say this.  My 88 y.o. father in law was over just yesterday.  He sat down in front of my Sony 60R550A and watched baseball with the 2D to 3D conversion.  I kept being apologetic about it, and he insisted that I not change it and was wowed the entire time.  As far as the impact of the glasses themselves: The glasses were completely comfortable to him.  They're more comfy than sunglasses and people often wear those for 8 hours at a time with no complaint.

That's cool. I'm afraid my biggest turnoff with this technology is having to sit with a pair of glasses on. I don't need specs (yet) and can't seem to keep sunnies on even on a bright day. I'm often annoyed with cinemas offering frequent 3D session over 2D. Same goes with gaming and headsets, I feel so constricted .. perhaps it's because I'm a fidgety couch surfer. rolleyes.gif
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post #88 of 398 Old 07-25-2013, 11:29 AM
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Whoa.  Do any of you have a 3D Sony set (other than I?)

 

Sometime recently, the firmware for 3D must've changed.  The 2D->3D conversion, as hokey as it is in concept, actually got substantially better.

 

I'd put it previously at the 50% 3D, and now it seems more like 70+%.  My Sony is passive, not that it likely matters.

 

Totally gone from "eh" to "huh!"

 

Someone else sanity check this for me?

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WARNING: You have now entered a no @#$%tard zone. Please gather your anti-vaccine propaganda nonsense and slowly back out the way you came in.
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post #89 of 398 Old 07-25-2013, 11:39 AM
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post #90 of 398 Old 07-26-2013, 05:10 AM
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I have a question,

is the OP of this thread actually someone in the tech business or just an old fart that sits on his couch all day?

3D is not dead
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