100"+ class panels: technology, information, sightings and practice - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 182 Old 11-08-2013, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

(phew, back on Earth).  ^What he said.  Maybe modified to 70" though, such as the KDL-70R550A (2K), at least for the 2013 models.

This year is just the start, will be interesting to see next year lineups at the CES.
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By the way, I wonder how long the OLED's will take to reach 100".... 77" LG is currently the size to beat (IFA---Dec 9th).  So we're 23" away....

OLED is still technology in the making, stony road ahead from one lab prototype to products.
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One more thing about gigantic 100"+ LCD's: How many of these have exhibited dramatic viewing angle artifacts from center to edge?

As far as one can tell all 110" panels originate from one manuf. Nobody reported any dramatic artefacts in these panels.

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post #92 of 182 Old 11-09-2013, 03:37 PM
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I readily ignore prototype displays as meaningless. We say 100+" LCDs years ago (5+) at CES and still, years later, the biggest you can really buy is 84".

Therefore, the biggest OLED is a 55".

I do believe, based on what I've seen in the works, that 8G OLED manufacturing will get real in the coming years. There are breakthroughs in printables that are on the horizon and could start to show in lines by 2015 / 2016. At that point, OLED could begin its assault on the cost curve. It's really up to the manufacturers to decide to go all in on printables and stop wasting time with SMS and, quite frankly, LG's method, which clearly has lost all credibility about being easy/scaleable at this point. It was demoed at CES 2012. If it were simple, they'd already have made meaningful progress. The fact is they haven't.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #93 of 182 Old 11-10-2013, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
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^Fact is that 110"@4K panels are listed as products and apparently offered by the producer to different manufacturers of TV sets, very significant for creating the real market. Thus one may expect the 110"@4K will be included in the next year lineups, especially with the availability of HDMI 2.0/DisplayPort chips for TVs. The CES is going to be a testground of this.
On the other hand it is hard to believe in big, 70+" 4K OLEDs showing up as products next year.

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post #94 of 182 Old 11-11-2013, 12:02 PM
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I am more convinced LG/Samsung will offer tiny quantities of 70" OLEDs next year that people can buy than that any branded 110" LCD will be available from anyone without special ordering it for >$100,000. (I don't consider the latter a "product".)

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #95 of 182 Old 11-11-2013, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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^Samsung/LG are furiously kicking the OLED due to the chinese pressure. They are thus not terribly interested in promoting monster LCD's. But they have to embrace the monsters, otherwise will be facing direct confrontation with the chinese. On the other hand, chinese can not yet go entirely alone since their brands are quite weak. It looks to me the 110"@4K TVs will be in the next year lineups and for prices inducing some real sales.

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post #96 of 182 Old 11-11-2013, 04:12 PM
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Irkuck, I hope you are right that the TVs will be real. Fundamentally, you should be able to buy a 110" TV, today, for around $10,000 given that you can buy 4 premium 55" sets for 1/4 of that and the electronics required to power a single 110" model would cost nowhere near 4x as much as the single smaller set. But right now, we are talking far more than 10x that if you can talk someone into a special-order unit.

I do hope it changes, even though I'm not currently in the market for such a thing.

A 70" OLED that reached $4000 and has 4K resolution, however, I'd be one of the earliest buyers for.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #97 of 182 Old 11-11-2013, 10:13 PM - Thread Starter
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^Indeed, 110" LCD panel made in China should not be very expensive by itself. Set producers like Samsung just want to milk extra premium profits from it. But next year one should expect prices mving into the reasonable territory though I am not predicting four digit numbers. Big 4K OLEDs will be still pipe dream or, in the best case, billionaire reality. Besides, I do not see 70" 4K OLED logical, 4K must be in the 100" range if one thinks about the living room viewing.

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post #98 of 182 Old 11-12-2013, 04:31 PM
 
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OLED will eventually be 4K by default (no matter the logic or the need) or it will have even more trouble selling in comparison to the more affordable 4K LCDs.
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post #99 of 182 Old 11-13-2013, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

OLED will eventually be 4K by default (no matter the logic or the need) or it will have even more trouble selling in comparison to the more affordable 4K LCDs.

OLED will likely be 4K by default before it has shipped 1 million units cumulative worldwide.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #100 of 182 Old 11-13-2013, 04:23 AM - Thread Starter
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OLED will likely be 4K by default before it has shipped 1 million units cumulative worldwide.

There will have to be huge improve in pixels yields since for 4K panels yield should be 4x lower than for 2K panels.

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post #101 of 182 Old 11-13-2013, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

OLED will likely be 4K by default before it has shipped 1 million units cumulative worldwide.

There will have to be huge improve in pixels yields since for 4K panels yield should be 4x lower than for 2K panels.

 

Why?  The equation can't possibly be 1:1 with the number of pixels present, or is it?.  By the way, there is no such thing as "4x lower than".  You mean "1/4th of".


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post #102 of 182 Old 11-13-2013, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Why?  The equation can't possibly be 1:1 with the number of pixels present, or is it?.  By the way, there is no such thing as "4x lower than".  You mean "1/4th of".

Since OLED pixels are active and complicated, yield should be proportional to their number so Y4K = Y2K/4 where Y - yield smile.gif

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post #103 of 182 Old 11-14-2013, 12:59 AM
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LCD proves that division by zero is possible. LCD doesn't want to be just worthless--LCD wants to be LESS than worthless.

Can 110 inch OLED save mankind?
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post #104 of 182 Old 11-16-2013, 02:03 AM - Thread Starter
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LCD is beating the pants off and kicking the butts of any other technology. 2K OLED is barely available, 4K OLED is written on the sand and 8K OLED is fantasy, while 2K,4K,8K LCDs are easy.

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post #105 of 182 Old 11-16-2013, 09:14 AM
 
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Beating in the marketplace, you mean. Inconsequential to videophiles.
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post #106 of 182 Old 11-16-2013, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, you mean hardcore videophiles have not bought any panels yet?biggrin.gif

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post #107 of 182 Old 11-16-2013, 09:42 PM
 
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The only videophile I could forgive for buying a modern LCD would be an avid gamer. wink.gif
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post #108 of 182 Old 11-17-2013, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Videophiles had plasma to choose but that is ending and it is LCD or nothing biggrin.gif (OLED obviously too small).

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post #109 of 182 Old 11-17-2013, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

The only videophile I could forgive for buying a modern LCD would be an avid gamer. wink.gif

If we fast forward 18 months and we assume the biggest OLED is still 55" or that the bigger one is some stupid price, what does the videophile buy exactly? I'd say a 75" Samsung probably.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #110 of 182 Old 12-12-2013, 08:24 AM
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rogo: why is it that audiophiles can buy equipment at astronomical prices and those companies make money but videophiles can only buy LCD that sucks?

What is so different about the two technologies? Are you going to tell me that NONE of the audiophiles who shell out zillions would be willing to shell out big money for a good looking picture?

If they would WHY is there no company that can cater to videophiles and make money?
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post #111 of 182 Old 12-12-2013, 11:30 AM
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rogo: why is it that audiophiles can buy equipment at astronomical prices and those companies make money but videophiles can only buy LCD that sucks?

What is so different about the two technologies? Are you going to tell me that NONE of the audiophiles who shell out zillions would be willing to shell out big money for a good looking picture?

If they would WHY is there no company that can cater to videophiles and make money?

Projection. This is where videophiles go for larger screens and better picture quality. It is where I will be going when I am ready to upgrade my 70" LED backlit LCD.

The $3,000 I spent could have gotten me so much more if I had chosen projection two years ago instead.

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post #112 of 182 Old 12-12-2013, 03:17 PM
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rogo: why is it that audiophiles can buy equipment at astronomical prices and those companies make money but videophiles can only buy LCD that sucks?

What is so different about the two technologies? Are you going to tell me that NONE of the audiophiles who shell out zillions would be willing to shell out big money for a good looking picture?

If they would WHY is there no company that can cater to videophiles and make money?

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Projection. This is where videophiles go for larger screens and better picture quality. It is where I will be going when I am ready to upgrade my 70" LED backlit LCD.

The $3,000 I spent could have gotten me so much more if I had chosen projection two years ago instead.

I wrote a really long response to this and the forum software ate it. Maybe I'll re-draft it someday. Sorry Art and Pen.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #113 of 182 Old 12-12-2013, 09:38 PM
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I wrote a really long response to this and the forum software ate it. Maybe I'll re-draft it someday. Sorry Art and Pen.

It happens to me all the time, usually my phone browser eats it (refeshes the page when I go to grab a link)

Projection really is the only answer to his question. 25k isn't even that high end in the projector world. A home Imax setup is two million (it also includes audio though)

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post #114 of 182 Old 12-12-2013, 10:39 PM
 
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In a few threads yesterday, I had an issue in Firefox where submitted posts never actually listed and were lost in digital limbo. Quite annoying for short posts (mine), devastating for lengthy posts. Switching to IE temporarily resolved it.
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post #115 of 182 Old 12-12-2013, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Projection. This is where videophiles go for larger screens and better picture quality. It is where I will be going when I am ready to upgrade my 70" LED backlit LCD.

The $3,000 I spent could have gotten me so much more if I had chosen projection two years ago instead.

False alternative. You won't be watching projector in the living room daylight.
The real issue which will be pressing quite soon is what to choose when equipping dedicated home theater for movies: a 110" screen with a 4K projector or a 110"@4K LCD display.

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post #116 of 182 Old 12-12-2013, 11:41 PM
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False alternative. You won't be watching projector in the living room daylight.
The real issue which will be pressing quite soon is what to choose when equipping dedicated home theater for movies: a 110" screen with a 4K projector or a 110"@4K LCD display.

You would be surprised at how many people watch their projectors in daylight. It looks about as good as a plasma without a solid AR filter. (No glare, slightly more washout with indirect light, direct sunlight on anything makes it unwatchable anyway so that is moot) You aren't going to be doing any critical viewing in a bright room anyway, and a very solid entry level projector runs at about $800 on average. (4k is just starting to show up, so how quickly it filters down the line remains to be seen for all sides)

I don't see myself ever getting a Flat Screen any larger than my 70". I have moved multiple times since I got it and it has been nothing but a pita. These sizes are reaching a point where it is more about vanity than form or function. A 110" flat screen just is too much on a funtional level. (Especially when a 150" projection setup can be broken down and stored in a 20 gallon plastic bin for a move, wish I could have done that with my 70") Installs for these are going to be insane.

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post #117 of 182 Old 12-13-2013, 04:47 AM
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In a few threads yesterday, I had an issue in Firefox where submitted posts never actually listed and were lost in digital limbo. Quite annoying for short posts (mine), devastating for lengthy posts. Switching to IE temporarily resolved it.
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In a few threads yesterday, I had an issue in Firefox where submitted posts never actually listed and were lost in digital limbo. Quite annoying for short posts (mine), devastating for lengthy posts. Switching to IE temporarily resolved it.


I use Safari and for the last 2-3 days when i hit submit for a post all it does is show the spinning gear. Finally had to refresh page and type again. As I was typing this, AVS died completely and dumped me out. But submit did work this time.
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post #118 of 182 Old 12-13-2013, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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You would be surprised at how many people watch their projectors in daylight. It looks about as good as a plasma without a solid AR filter. (No glare, slightly more washout with indirect light, direct sunlight on anything makes it unwatchable anyway so that is moot) You aren't going to be doing any critical viewing in a bright room anyway, and a very solid entry level projector runs at about $800 on average. (4k is just starting to show up, so how quickly it filters down the line remains to be seen for all sides)

I don't see myself ever getting a Flat Screen any larger than my 70". I have moved multiple times since I got it and it has been nothing but a pita. These sizes are reaching a point where it is more about vanity than form or function. A 110" flat screen just is too much on a funtional level. (Especially when a 150" projection setup can be broken down and stored in a 20 gallon plastic bin for a move, wish I could have done that with my 70") Installs for these are going to be insane.

If your objective is portability than indeed projector is an option. Projectors are not for daylight, this washout is an issue. And 110" is necessary for soaking 4K pixels in standard living room conditions. Some experts which hauled 4K displays to their homes claim they see 4K/2K difference at 1.8PH.

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post #119 of 182 Old 12-13-2013, 08:06 AM
 
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I use Safari and for the last 2-3 days when i hit submit for a post all it does is show the spinning gear.
This is exactly what happened in Firefox in a few threads.
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post #120 of 182 Old 12-13-2013, 08:25 AM
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Time to move this to the Forum Operations Center forum please....


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