4K vs flagship (1080p) Plasma - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 09-05-2013, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I have been looking at TV's in several Magnolia and Frys stores and debated which model. Here are my current thoughts for the following use case:

* light controlled media room: critical viewing in dark, casual viewing with a light on above seat.
* critical viewing is BluRay 2D movies, casual viewing is sports & TV
* 7-9 ft viewing distance (adjustable)
* 65" screen
* replacing CRT RPTV

Sony 4K
* upconversion of bluray shows more improvement than expected, see more detail in picture
* overall color, white and black present attractive picture
* watching football it looks like a nice LCD (with LCD attributes)
* LCD motion stutter slightly seen on sports balls in motion (i.e. tennis & soccer)
* the clear favorite of the BB sales reps
* I am concerned about price (even with recent drops) and buying into 4K this early in evolution
* I would want to see them in a dark room side by side at least well adjusted to feel comfortable of my preference for BD movies. Plasma has inky blacks, natural picture but 4K Sony has more detail and I have been impressed by the color and overall picture

Panasonic ZT
* inky blacks
* best reviewed plasma
* glass reduces glare with light on
* natural picture
* looks gray next to Samsung & LCDs in show room lighting
* around $1k more than VT...not sure I can see the difference with lights off

Panasonic VT
* more glare in light vs. ZT
* seems to have the same picture as more expensive ZT when trying to compare in stores
* reviews seem to indicate only slightly better blacks and question the price premium for most buyers

Samsung 8500
* notably brighter than Panasonic
* sometimes shown in store in vivid bright room mode which is too bright and makes it look like an LCD vs Panasonic
* when put in dark room and better mode it looks great like Panasonic
* not sure I can tell the difference between Panasonic and Samsung walking between rooms
* can clearly tell the difference in white and brightness
* seems to get less respect than perhaps it deserves vs Panasonic. It get type cast as a bright plasma but in a dark room I'm not sure I could tell the difference
* VT price range so much more affordable than ZT
* said to have better behaved Automatic Brightness Limiter (ABL)

Part of me thinks the Samsung is the more versatile, affordable and still top of the line dark room videophile plasma. It could be redeployed anywhere in the house in the future as 4K matures.

Another part of me wants the ZT which seems to be reviewed as the best 1080p TV currently on the market with less glare screen (but I struggle to justify the price delta vs VT)

Another part of me likes the wow factor of 4K: color pop, the detail even w/up conversion but buying early on a steep curve isn't my norm

The 8500/VT price point seems more logical but getting the best Plasma currently on the market is appealing as is getting the latest cool technology
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post #2 of 8 Old 09-05-2013, 09:02 PM
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It seems to me that you are leaning towards a plasma and I think you would be making the correct choice. I have no idea how much these new LCD based 4k screens cost, but the inherent drawbacks of the technology (LCD) combined with the fact that it will be a few years still before this emerging technology (4k resolution, HDMI 2.0, 60fps video, etc) has much content to watch on it.

You say that you saw a difference with upscaled 1080p video but how close were you? In a showroom setting standing close up to the screen you would certainly see a difference. But sitting 7 to 10 feet away at home would you really appreciate the difference, especially just with upscaled blu rays? When people judge picture quality, the order of importance regarding its various aspects usually goes like this: 1. Black level / Contrast ratio 2. Color Accuracy and ability to calibrate to industry standards (grayscale and gamma tracking, etc) 3. Resolution

Resolution is usually a less important factor in our perception of image quality. At 50 - 65 inches, the other advantages of plasma would definitely outweigh the lower resolution in my opinion. If you put the Sony 4k LCD in a dark room against a VT or ZT60 or a KRP-500m like the one I own, I can assure you you would not feel so favorable towards the Sony.


So my vote is for a plasma. If choosing between the VT60, ZT60 or F8500 it depends on whether or not you would need the additional brightness offered by the Samsung. If you don't need a very bright picture then the improved black level and overall superior image of the Panasonics would be better. As to whether the ZT is worth the premium over the VT, that is for you to judge. I think you would be happy with either.

Another option I should always mention is that I keep hearing about people coming across nearly new Pioneer Kuros for very low prices. There is a risk, but if you find a mint 600m for example it would be better (if only slightly) than all of the other displays.

If you don't want that kind of risk and want to buy a new tv, then if you are budget conscious and want the best value, get the VT60. If you are an enthusiast and would appreciate the small refinements and advantages, go for the ZT60.
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post #3 of 8 Old 09-05-2013, 11:10 PM
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If you're like me and want plasmas for awesome black and uniformity, but also want to get your feet wet with 4k contents, then I suggest you to either wait until HDMI 2.0 plasmas roll out or purchase Samsung F8500 hoping next year's evolution kit is going to add one. (which I'm not willing to take a chance for, so I decided to wait) While native 4KTVs are going to have the best details from the 4K sources, do not underestimate the potential of downscaling either! I find it working really well with plasmas, even with the lowly low 1024x768 entry level ones. Me, input lag and lack of HDMI 2.0 were two major factors that made wait until next year for my plasma purchase. (ok, I'll be honest, it really was just input lag lol)

What really put me off from today's UHDTVs are the sources. Depending on the sourse, either they look awesome or just so-so.
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post #4 of 8 Old 09-06-2013, 02:19 AM
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The Sony 4k will get a software update within 3 months time enabling HDMI 2.0 .Of all the TV's currently Sony 4k lcd are the only ones which can show a wider color gamut because of the quantum dot tech ,approaching the REC2020 of the HDMI 2.0 .
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post #5 of 8 Old 09-06-2013, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the comments above....very helpful.

I am leaning towards plasma...and the ZT (although the ~$1k delta seems like a lot if they have the same picture in dark rooms). I keep things for a long time and all the 65" Plasmas are within budget..especially if I am considering a 65" Sony 4K....so I'm not as price sensitive as perhaps I should be.

* I have a light controlled media room...I can watch in darkness
* When with the light is on I see glare on my RPTV and the ZT seems to have less glare and better black retention in light. For casual viewing I like to have a light on for multi-tasking
* If I redeploy the ZT down the road to my family room (with shades) the glass/filter w/less glare would be helpful (Samsung might be better for that room but w/shades it's not too bright...need a light to read w/shades closed)
* Maybe there will be refinements in dark viewing over VT but the reviews seem to say pic is the same

I was conscience of distance when judging resolution on the sony 4k. With 65" screen at 8 ft roughly I thought I could see the benefit in resolution but I agree resolution is only one factor and in dark rooms the plasmas were really impressive... With 4K material the Sony was really impressive. After about a week I would run out of 4K content to watch at the moment so I am only judging 4k as an upsample for BD.

I still like my Mitsubishi 55" CRT RPTV but wish the screen was bigger. I expect the new ZT flagship would bring improvement in all the elements of PQ (except for motion which i assume CRT is good as is Plasma)
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post #6 of 8 Old 09-06-2013, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoots View Post

* the clear favorite of the BB sales reps

 

.....right here I would like you to think of car salesmen.  Not that they're liars or as deceitful.  But the above concept should sound a warning claxon in your head....


Well vinnie97, one of the kindest and most helpful and respected members here, was banned for silly reasons. And now vinnie_RIP is banned as well. The mark of an inexperienced moderator is to forget that their role is one of resource, not one of petulant authority and further that the members are doing the forum organization a favor by being here, not the other way around. They know darn well they screwed up here.
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post #7 of 8 Old 09-06-2013, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoots View Post

thanks for the comments above....very helpful.

I am leaning towards plasma...and the ZT (although the ~$1k delta seems like a lot if they have the same picture in dark rooms). I keep things for a long time and all the 65" Plasmas are within budget..especially if I am considering a 65" Sony 4K....so I'm not as price sensitive as perhaps I should be.

* I have a light controlled media room...I can watch in darkness
* When with the light is on I see glare on my RPTV and the ZT seems to have less glare and better black retention in light. For casual viewing I like to have a light on for multi-tasking
* If I redeploy the ZT down the road to my family room (with shades) the glass/filter w/less glare would be helpful (Samsung might be better for that room but w/shades it's not too bright...need a light to read w/shades closed)
* Maybe there will be refinements in dark viewing over VT but the reviews seem to say pic is the same

I was conscience of distance when judging resolution on the sony 4k. With 65" screen at 8 ft roughly I thought I could see the benefit in resolution but I agree resolution is only one factor and in dark rooms the plasmas were really impressive... With 4K material the Sony was really impressive. After about a week I would run out of 4K content to watch at the moment so I am only judging 4k as an upsample for BD.

I still like my Mitsubishi 55" CRT RPTV but wish the screen was bigger. I expect the new ZT flagship would bring improvement in all the elements of PQ (except for motion which i assume CRT is good as is Plasma)

I had a similar decision as you. I initially went with a VT. I was very happy with it in a dark room, but as soon as I opened my blackout shades I started to regret my decision on the VT. Fortunately I had a bit of a customer service issue with BB so they offered to upgrade me to a ZT at no charge. I took the ZT and will say that the panel is significantly better if there is any light in the room, even with the slightly lower overall light output of the ZT. Plus, I plan on moving this 65" set down to my much brighter family room as soon as a relatively affordable UHD 75-85" OLED is available, so the improved anti-glare filter will be key.

The Samsung 8500 is an excellent set as well, but I just didn't feel the need for the extra brightness and actually thought that the set looked slightly LCD'ish (artificially sharp looking) so I stuck with Panasonic. The Sammy has a pretty good anti-glare filter too.
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post #8 of 8 Old 09-06-2013, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence View Post

I had a similar decision as you. I initially went with a VT. I was very happy with it in a dark room, but as soon as I opened my blackout shades I started to regret my decision on the VT. Fortunately I had a bit of a customer service issue with BB so they offered to upgrade me to a ZT at no charge. I took the ZT and will say that the panel is significantly better if there is any light in the room, even with the slightly lower overall light output of the ZT. Plus, I plan on moving this 65" set down to my much brighter family room as soon as a relatively affordable UHD 75-85" OLED is available, so the improved anti-glare filter will be key.

The Samsung 8500 is an excellent set as well, but I just didn't feel the need for the extra brightness and actually thought that the set looked slightly LCD'ish (artificially sharp looking) so I stuck with Panasonic. The Sammy has a pretty good anti-glare filter too.



All of the above reads like something I could have written (except for the return situation). I am leaning to towards the 65" ZT
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