LG 55EA9800 55" OLED Owner's thread - Page 165 - AVS Forum
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post #4921 of 5084 Old 07-10-2014, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie_RIP View Post
I was referring to both the flagship plasma (ZT60) and these OLEDs. I didn't get in on the ground floor on the latter but paid more than enough. Plague has the most accumulated hours out of all of us so far (I'm only halfway there), so I'll certainly be keeping a watchful eye on the pixel situation as I hit that 1000-hour watermark.

1000 hrs already? That's pretty fast there. Oh you meant plague - must be the gaming
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post #4922 of 5084 Old 07-10-2014, 09:18 PM
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Hey there guys, haven't been on in a while, went to Canada for a week.

I don't know I'm seriously considering dropping the OLED lately. As time goes by I just see more DSE, blue subpixels failing, the permanent burn in that doesn't go away, nonuniformity issues, etc. I could try a new panel again but this is my second so I'm not feeling lucky. I just don't know what to do. Before I'm jumped on for "complaining", I can't just simply return it it isn't that simple. I need to prove to the retailer that it's defective, and then they'll let me use my EW to get something else, but I don't know what else I'd choose. I'm thinking about the EC9700, other than that the Sony XBRX950b looks like it will be fantastic in a month or two but its 8 g's so forget that. I don't think I have space for a projector.

It would appear as though most of the new members are happy and not experiencing any issues and I dont know what to make of that either. I love the PQ on this tv and wish I could keep it but sometimes I think that if I can get a FALD the blacks will be almost as good (in some cases better because where I see uneven grays when they should be black, the leds will be off, and itwill be 10 inches larger, with 4k, less reflective, less screen door effect, no worries about IR ever, flat and without those ugly stretched ripples, and 1-2 thousand bucks cheaper. When I think about it like that I think I was nuts....it's like if the source is 100% perfect it beats out every other tv in the world, but if not it's just dissappointing. And it's difficult to ignore the BI I have sometimes, depending on the colors.

To those asking about motion, it has blur but it's better than most lcds though nowhere even close to plasma

Plague,


I go away for a few weeks with the family and can't believe what I'm reading upon my return. With your experience with both OLED and FALD LED/LCD, your opinion is one I highly value.


You may have had unbelievably bad luck with the first-gen 1080p WOLEDs, or the first-gen WOLEDs may just not be ready for prime time. For the price you paid, it's likely that you'd be able to trade-in for an early 55" gen-2 WOLED to see if LG has succeeded in improving in the areas that have impacted you.


But from where things stand today, it sounds like you would prefer a 65" Elite-like FALD 4K LED/LCD to a gen 1 LG WOLED, right?


I'm also going to wait to hear how the gen-2 WOLEDs perform (as well as how quickly their price drops to affordable levels), and in the meantime will be looking at the 65" Vizio P and 65" Vizio R (hopefully :-), as well as the 65" Toshiba L9400U.
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post #4923 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 12:59 AM
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Fafrd - you are my "dude".

Here's the thing: I'm not so sure there is inherently anything in the OLED pixels themselves that make them any better than any other pixel of any other type. What OLED does is create the illusion of depth through blacks which are truly voidlike...This is not to be understated; it's absolutely stunning; but only with the right source...with the HX950, near-black scenes would present as black due to the LED's shutting off. See the OLED differentiates, whereas the FALD is being told "that background is black", so it MAKES it black. Though you've got bloom which is the inevitable trade-off.

The Sharp Elite was one of the greatest sets ever . But it still had its bad sets too! Don't get me wrong, comparing, say, 5x10's set with the worst Elite could turn heads. But if you've got problems with the panel lottery you turn local dimming up and you will NEVER see those issues (except for banding, which the OLED has sometimes as well). Local dimming is truly a fakeout to the senses, but it works...wonders. Whereas OLED is the real deal. I was enamoured with that at first, but a time passes I become indifferent. The truth of the matter is that there isn't a single person besides myself and other AVS'ers that could tell the difference between an OLED and a great FALD or great plasma. Sure, people might go to your house and say you have a great picture on that tv (provided you're watching a full length movie in the dark, otherwise you'd never notice the blacks), but that's because they've probably all got Vizios... completely uncalibrated. I mean let's be honest here, I could probably get compliments on any decent tv if you give me 5 minutes with the remote.

When I spend weekends at my girlfriends place; I bought a budget Sony 2013 backlit LED for her, I never overthink the set. It was $300. It just looks natural. Not fantastic, but natural. No screen door, dark gray blacks but uniform. It works average for all content. Great content looks a bazillion times better at home, obviously. But average Netflix crap? I prefer it with gray blacks that aren't streaky and ugly.

The single only reason, however, that it seems like I'm preferring a 65" 4k, is because of price. I'm mean seriously, I'm a punk. I spent almost 6k for a freaking tv set. If I got the EC9700 for half the price which is future proofed, massive and FALD, would I have missed the OLED? Of course not. Generation 1 is great, but it's a novelty. At Microcenter's price it's completely reasonable, and makes sense proportionately; but you've got to realize that LG is not trying to sell the majority of sets at this price, they only wanted to get the word out.

In any event obviously when I watch perfect content in the dark I'm under a spell , and I can't imagine leaving the TV. So? I'm going to go for a replacement. Could it be possible that since both my panels exhibited the same issues there's something going on internally? Anyway, I'd prefer a new set over a new panel but either way I've decided to give it another try. As much as I have more content which isn't perfect on my bookshelf, what IS perfect is clearly more important to me. Generation 2 will most likely have all the same issues on certain sets so I really don't care about it unless the 65" 4k completely replaces the 55" 2k. But I don't think that's the case.

...
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post #4924 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
Did LG do the 1st swap or the seller?

Check your PM
LG did the swap. My retailer, who I've always bought all my electronics from but will probably stop now due to my realization of their absurdly strict return policy, doesn't replace panels. They send a tech out, who can only fix small things, like power supplies etc, and otherwise they just give you store credit.

I know this because I tried to have the panel replaced on the HX950 because I loved the crap out of that tv. It wasn't 100% perfect due to bloom but it was perfect for me! Utterly uniform; almost as good as the OLED for 2k after everything. I wanted to keep it but it had a dead pixel , not subpixels mind you but every color was out, directly in the center of the screen and they had no more in any of their locations. The tech just gave me a refund immediately and said they dont replace panels because if they send the whole set back they get a full refund from the manufacturer but part replacements they purchase and get reimbursed from later; if a part cost more than what you paid for the EW they simply dont do it.

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post #4925 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 09:32 AM
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And I wonder why that is...
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post #4926 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post
Hey there guys, haven't been on in a while, went to Canada for a week.

I don't know I'm seriously considering dropping the OLED lately. As time goes by I just see more DSE, blue subpixels failing, the permanent burn in that doesn't go away, nonuniformity issues, etc. I could try a new panel again but this is my second so I'm not feeling lucky. I just don't know what to do. Before I'm jumped on for "complaining", I can't just simply return it it isn't that simple. I need to prove to the retailer that it's defective, and then they'll let me use my EW to get something else, but I don't know what else I'd choose. I'm thinking about the EC9700, other than that the Sony XBRX950b looks like it will be fantastic in a month or two but its 8 g's so forget that. I don't think I have space for a projector.

It would appear as though most of the new members are happy and not experiencing any issues and I dont know what to make of that either. I love the PQ on this tv and wish I could keep it but sometimes I think that if I can get a FALD the blacks will be almost as good (in some cases better because where I see uneven grays when they should be black, the leds will be off, and itwill be 10 inches larger, with 4k, less reflective, less screen door effect, no worries about IR ever, flat and without those ugly stretched ripples, and 1-2 thousand bucks cheaper. When I think about it like that I think I was nuts....it's like if the source is 100% perfect it beats out every other tv in the world, but if not it's just dissappointing. And it's difficult to ignore the BI I have sometimes, depending on the colors.

To those asking about motion, it has blur but it's better than most lcds though nowhere even close to plasma
Plague, I think you just summed up OLED biggest challege. We all know it has the superior picture but to almost all of the general public, a good quality FALD will be close enough for much cheaper. You throw into that the quality and longevity problems and OLED and it will remain a high end niche product. Unless LG truly finds a way to mass produce panels to only be slightly more expensive than equal size LED. Which seems doubtful using the current production method.
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post #4927 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 10:11 AM
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I noticed someone in Seattle is selling a brand new LG OLED on Craigslist for $2500. Probably someone who bought one or more for the $1999 price at Microcenter with the expectation of making a little money.

Could it be a member here????
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post #4928 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 10:11 AM
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The single only reason, however, that it seems like I'm preferring a 65" 4k, is because of price. I'm mean seriously, I'm a punk. I spent almost 6k for a freaking tv set. If I got the EC9700 for half the price which is future proofed, massive and FALD, would I have missed the OLED? Of course not.
...
do you think you would miss the OLED, now that you have lived with its pq, if you went to the ec9700?
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post #4929 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 10:21 AM
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do you think you would miss the OLED, now that you have lived with its pq, if you went to the ec9700?
Yeah probably at first. But how much more I'm getting for the money, plus having so much leftover would eventually win out with peace of mind, I think. Regardless I've called LG today and told them I want the whole tv replaced not just the panel. They seemed completely unsure if they would, but a tech will be here in a few days.

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post #4930 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 10:30 AM
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do you think you would miss the OLED, now that you have lived with its pq, if you went to the ec9700?

?? The EC9700 is the new Gen-2 4K OLED, so are you asking Plague if he would miss his Gen-1 1080p OLED if he went to the Gen-2 4K EC9700 OLED???
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post #4931 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 10:33 AM
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Yeah probably at first. But how much more I'm getting for the money, plus having so much leftover would eventually win out with peace of mind, I think. Regardless I've called LG today and told them I want the whole tv replaced not just the panel. They seemed completely unsure if they would, but a tech will be here in a few days.
how much are the lcds you are contemplating
i guess the main issue for you is the cost, as i think we both agree, no tv is without its issues(just look at vinnie and his top rated zt60)
i was having issues stomaching $4k, but only because my new job doesnt have the commission potential of my last job(which laid me off), i wouldnt have blinked an eye at buying it for $4k last year as i do think the pq warrants it and is that much better than the rest

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?? The EC9700 is the new Gen-2 4K OLED, so are you asking Plague if he would miss his Gen-1 1080p OLED if he went to the Gen-2 4K EC9700 OLED???
whoops, i missed that
i thought he was referencing a current LCD, guess i should have referenced the sony
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post #4932 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 10:46 AM
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Oh crap! I didn't mean to reference the gen 2 oled I meant to reference the 2013 LG 4K 65" FALD! Whoops. Did that in like 5 posts.

Also it isn't JUST about saving money, but saving money while simultaneously getting more (in some ways), as I wouldn't trade this tv in for a 1080p 55" FALD! I would only consider it for a larger, higher res FALD which is still cheaper.

Of course I agree, I won't a get a tv without issues. Never. It's just harder to deal with issues when you're paying well over 5k, and in doing so have to make sacrifices (size, res).

First world problems though.

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post #4933 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 10:52 AM
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How much is the lg 65 4k set?
Only other option I would consider would be a 65 vt/st

Last edited by 5x10; 07-11-2014 at 10:58 AM.
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post #4934 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post
Fafrd - you are my "dude".

Here's the thing: I'm not so sure there is inherently anything in the OLED pixels themselves that make them any better than any other pixel of any other type. What OLED does is create the illusion of depth through blacks which are truly voidlike...This is not to be understated; it's absolutely stunning; but only with the right source...with the HX950, near-black scenes would present as black due to the LED's shutting off. See the OLED differentiates, whereas the FALD is being told "that background is black", so it MAKES it black. Though you've got bloom which is the inevitable trade-off.

The Sharp Elite was one of the greatest sets ever . But it still had its bad sets too! Don't get me wrong, comparing, say, 5x10's set with the worst Elite could turn heads. But if you've got problems with the panel lottery you turn local dimming up and you will NEVER see those issues (except for banding, which the OLED has sometimes as well). Local dimming is truly a fakeout to the senses, but it works...wonders. Whereas OLED is the real deal. I was enamoured with that at first, but a time passes I become indifferent. The truth of the matter is that there isn't a single person besides myself and other AVS'ers that could tell the difference between an OLED and a great FALD or great plasma. Sure, people might go to your house and say you have a great picture on that tv (provided you're watching a full length movie in the dark, otherwise you'd never notice the blacks), but that's because they've probably all got Vizios... completely uncalibrated. I mean let's be honest here, I could probably get compliments on any decent tv if you give me 5 minutes with the remote.

When I spend weekends at my girlfriends place; I bought a budget Sony 2013 backlit LED for her, I never overthink the set. It was $300. It just looks natural. Not fantastic, but natural. No screen door, dark gray blacks but uniform. It works average for all content. Great content looks a bazillion times better at home, obviously. But average Netflix crap? I prefer it with gray blacks that aren't streaky and ugly.

The single only reason, however, that it seems like I'm preferring a 65" 4k, is because of price. I'm mean seriously, I'm a punk. I spent almost 6k for a freaking tv set. If I got the EC9700 for half the price which is future proofed, massive and FALD, would I have missed the OLED? Of course not. Generation 1 is great, but it's a novelty. At Microcenter's price it's completely reasonable, and makes sense proportionately; but you've got to realize that LG is not trying to sell the majority of sets at this price, they only wanted to get the word out.

In any event obviously when I watch perfect content in the dark I'm under a spell , and I can't imagine leaving the TV. So? I'm going to go for a replacement. Could it be possible that since both my panels exhibited the same issues there's something going on internally? Anyway, I'd prefer a new set over a new panel but either way I've decided to give it another try. As much as I have more content which isn't perfect on my bookshelf, what IS perfect is clearly more important to me. Generation 2 will most likely have all the same issues on certain sets so I really don't care about it unless the 65" 4k completely replaces the 55" 2k. But I don't think that's the case.

...

Plague, you're my proxy - whatever decision I end up making is likely to have been significantly influenced by your decisions. Seems like the biggest difference between us is your much greater direct experience with these technologies and the fact that you are already into this initiative for $6K :-)


You say that FALD is a 'fakeout of the senses' where I would characterize it a bit differently. For head-on viewing, FALD is a fantastic engineering achievement whose only intrinsic limitation versus a true emissive display is the possibility of content-specific blooming or reduction in contrast ratio. FALD is inherently limited by the number of LEDs on the backlight, but to the extent that a single LED will provide the backlight brightness for an X * Y region of LCD pixels, as long as the specific content being viewed has no dimming region where local contrast ration (brightest local pixels divided by darkest local pixels) exceeds native contrast ratio of the panel (3000:1 to 5:000:1 for VA-type panels), FALD offers the potential to deliver an image which is identical to that of an emissive display such as OLED.


The problem is that off-angle, the effective 'native-contrast' of an LCD panel is degraded, and so blooming performance can be significantly worse. That is why I see off-angle performance as the fundamental limitation of LCD versus OLED.


So when you write 'If I got the EC9700 for half the price which is future proofed, massive and FALD, would I have missed the OLED? Of course not. ' I interpret that to mean that if you had a choice between the 65" EC9700 at $10,000 or a 65" Elite-class FALD LED/LCD at half the price ($5000), you'd go for the LD/LCD with no regrets - is that right?


And finally, when you write 'Generation 2 will most likely have all the same issues on certain sets so I really don't care about it unless the 65" 4k completely replaces the 55" 2k.' I take that to mean that you would not care about the deficiencies you have experienced on your Gen-1 WOLED even if they remained on a Gen-2 65" 4K WOLED as long as that Gen-2 WOLED only cost $5000 (what you paid for your 55" 1080p Gen-1 WOLED), but those deficiencies remaining on a 65" EC9700 that costs $10,000 would be unacceptable, is that right?


As you can see, I'm trying to reveres-engineer your decision matrix and the key criteria your are evaluating. If I have it right, it sounds like you are considering the best option for a 65" 4K TV costing $5000, and your first choice will be the EC9700 once the 65" is available at that price even with the Gen-1 deficiencies you have experienced, followed by the best 65" 4K LED/LCD $5K can buy (Vizio R Series if it materializes, or Sony X950B once it comes down to a more reasonable price, or Toshiba L9400U if it delivers the expected performance, or Panasonic AX900 if all 3 of the above). Is that an accurate summary of your current thinking?


And from your extensive experience with the HX950 and FALD, I might suggest you include the Vizio P in the above list. The 65" has already been priced well below your target ($2200), it is almost certain to be materializing before the end of this year, and the dark-level performance is almost certain to exceed that of the M-Series (which is pretty good, by all reports).


In my view, the 65" Vizio P-Series set's a 'worst-case' backstop for the best reasonably-priced (<$5000) 65" 4K TV this season and if you ever have a chance to have a look at the 2014 Vizio M-Series FALD panels that are in the channels (Best-Buy, Costco, etc...) today, I'd be interested in your assessment and how you feel Vizio's 2014 FALD technology might compare to the HX950 you have the most experience with.


I still believe the 65" EC9700 will be available below your pricepoint of $5000 as soon as the M2 manufacturing line starts pumping out WOLEDs in full capacity (hopefully before the end of this year). So my guess is that you (and probably me as well) probably have a 65" 4K Gen-2 WOLED TV in our near-term future :-)


The important input for me, is I believe you are expressing a clear preference for the 65" EC9700 over a Sharp-Elite-class 65" 4K FALD LED/LCD as long as the WOLED is priced below $5000, even if that Gen-2 WOLED suffers from all of the same deficiencies you have experienced with your Gen-1 product. Piggy-backing on your experience with the Gen-1 LG WOLED, I am going to adopt that position as a proxy for my own thinking about the TV I hope to purchase late this year.
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post #4935 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 11:34 AM
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Oh crap! I didn't mean to reference the gen 2 oled I meant to reference the 2013 LG 4K 65" FALD! Whoops. Did that in like 5 posts.

Also it isn't JUST about saving money, but saving money while simultaneously getting more (in some ways), as I wouldn't trade this tv in for a 1080p 55" FALD! I would only consider it for a larger, higher res FALD which is still cheaper.

Of course I agree, I won't a get a tv without issues. Never. It's just harder to deal with issues when you're paying well over 5k, and in doing so have to make sacrifices (size, res).

First world problems though.

Looks like you were typing this clarification while I was typing my summary of what I thought was your position (now totally confused).


Have you seen the 2013 LG FALD LED/LCD? I've scratched it off of my list since it has received so many poor reviews and I think both the Toshiba L9400U and Vizio P Series will offer superior PQ for equivalent (or lower) price.


So here is the main thing I would appreciate to understand from you - if the 65" 4K Gen-2 LG WOLED (EC9700) were available for $5000 and suffers from all of the same deficiencies you have experienced on your Gen-1 55" 1080p WOLED, would you choose that over a 'perfect' 65" 4K FALD LED/LCD at the same pricepoint (use Sony X950B as a proxy) or not?


I think I understand that at an MSRP of $10,000 for the EC9700 WOLED, you'd choose the FALD LED/LCD over the Gen-2 WOLED, but what would you choose if both options were priced at $5000?
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Ridiculously, after attempting to purchase an LG service plan over the phone, the rep had to take my phone # and get back to me because she said they had no SKU available for this 1-year-old product! Ineptness alert. I can purchase it online, but I'm only given the 1 and 2-year options.
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post #4937 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 11:56 AM
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Fafrd- stand by until later for my answer as it has to be fairly long and detailed and I'm on my phone. But for now I'll say many of your assumptions in the first post were still correct despite my error

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post #4938 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 12:48 PM
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Anyone know what the oled light setting is? I'm confused as I would think it almost a brightness setting
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post #4939 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 01:21 PM
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Anyone know what the oled light setting is? I'm confused as I would think it almost a brightness setting
Brightness controls the depth of blacks, not actual brightness. That's with every tv.

The OLED light setting functions exactly like a backlight setting on other tv's. It directly controls the tv's light output.

I like 60 for movies. It's much brighter than THX but it looks nice.

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post #4940 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post
Brightness controls the depth of blacks, not actual brightness. That's with every tv.

The OLED light setting functions exactly like a backlight setting on other tv's. It directly controls the tv's light output.

I like 60 for movies. It's much brighter than THX but it looks nice.
If brightness controls the depths of black, then what does contrast control

Crazy thx mode has oled light at 35
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post #4941 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
If brightness controls the depths of black, then what does contrast control

Crazy thx mode has oled light at 35

In general, brightness controls the average brightness or midpoint, and contrast controls the gain or 'whitest-white' and 'blackest-black' centered around that midpoint. Though often, brightness is used to set 'whitest white' in which case contrast sets 'blackest-black'.
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post #4942 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 05:15 PM
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I really respect Theplague's logic through all of this. His thoughts reflect many of mine about OLED vs FALD and his approach is one of common sense.

Although not FALD, I did get a chance to see the new 79" 4K 900B Sony. The viewing angles on that display are unparalleled in my experience with LED and simply blow my Sharp Elite out of the water. It's virtually 'plasma good' in that respect. The colors are also gorgeous.

The biggest question mark in my mind is that of the black levels. I couldn't get a handle on those in the bright lighting of BB. However if the black levels are good, this could sway me from the 77" 4K OLED. I'm sure they won't be as good as OLED, but the question for me will be the magnitude of this black level disparity.

Sony's 4K ecosystem is also something I need to consider and something totally lacking with LG. For the 55", this is a total non-issue...obviously.
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post #4943 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
If brightness controls the depths of black, then what does contrast control

Crazy thx mode has oled light at 35
I think the easiest way to explain it is that brightness=blacks and contrast=whites. This is for ALL tv's (some call contrast "picture", it's the same thing.). You raise the brightness, all the blacks go up. You lower it, they go down. its as simple as that. This setting does not make any tv "brighter" as you would understand it. With the oled though blacks can only be as black as space, so once you reach that (50-53 depending on your panel), it just causes crush.

What you want to do to get optimal brightness, the most important setting to get just right, is pause on a pitch black screen. Raise the brightness one notch at a time until the black begins to turn gray. As soon as you see any gray appear, lower it by one notch. This setting is called your tv's "true black".

Contrast makes whites more vivid...this is more akin to what you'd perceive as brightness...

As far as I understand Gamma, that's the setting for midpoint.

Vinnie97, one of the kindest, most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before we all get such a message...
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post #4944 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Plague, I think you just summed up OLED biggest challege. We all know it has the superior picture but to almost all of the general public, a good quality FALD will be close enough for much cheaper. A FALD set in my eyes is not even close in PQ I feel, even to most people.

You throw into that the quality and longevity problems and OLED and it will remain a high end niche product. What problems are we talking about here, these have been out for 9 months. Every product will fail, its a matter of what day.

Unless LG truly finds a way to mass produce panels to only be slightly more expensive than equal size LED. Which seems doubtful using the current production method. Look at the prices these are at after 9 months, they are down over 50% on the street in cost. It took plasma technology 4 years to do this.......
Threw in my .02 cents above in bold.

I am excited about OLED, I only hope when the 65" and 77" come out, after 9 months they drop 50% cost on the street as well. If this happens, watch out, all other technology TV's are in trouble. Big trouble.
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post #4945 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I really respect Theplague's logic through all of this. His thoughts reflect many of mine about OLED vs FALD and his approach is one of common sense.

Although not FALD, I did get a chance to see the new 79" 4K 900B Sony. The viewing angles on that display are unparalleled in my experience with LED and simply blow my Sharp Elite out of the water. It's virtually 'plasma good' in that respect. The colors are also gorgeous.
Isn't this simply going to be thousands cheaper than the OLED?

I mean it's a legitimate comparison size wise, but I'm not of the mindset that anything priced thousands apart from anything else is really an actual competitor. (Note: What an individual might choose is one thing, the market tends to be more "rational" and not select between $9000 and $15,000 items).

If I'm wrong and the 77 inch OLED is going to be sub $10,000 then forget I mentioned this other than to say, "If the OLED QC/longevity problems are not there, I think you'd be insane to buy an edge-lit LCD over one for the same money." But if the OLED is basically going to be nearly 2x as much, I don't even see this as a competing product.
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #4946 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Threw in my .02 cents above in bold.

I am excited about OLED, I only hope when the 65" and 77" come out, after 9 months they drop 100% cost on the street as well. If this happens, watch out, all other technology TV's are in trouble. Big trouble.

Where I come from, dropping 100% cost versus MSRP translates to a price below $0 (which I doubt is that you are trying to say :-).


You probably mean dropping 50% meaning that the current cost of ~$3K for the 55" 1080p WOLED is less than half the price of $7K from when they were first introduced.


I'm curious to understand the price for the 77" 4K LG WOLED you believe will be needed to cause big trouble to all other TV technology, including FALD LED/LCD.


It appears that the EC9700 is going to have an introductory MSRP of about $10,000 (at least based on the MSRP of £6000 which has been announced in the UK). Assuming $10,000 is also the MSRP for the EC9700 here in the States, what is the discount % off of that introductory MSRP you believe will cause serious trouble for Samsung and Vizio here in the US? A 50% discount would correspond to a price of $5000 - is that the 'pain-point' in your view or will it take a price even lower than that 9 months from now to cause serious trouble to the other TV technologies?
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post #4947 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 07:18 PM
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I'd say if a 65" 4k OLED reaches the $2000 dollar mark other tech might be in for rough ride. It has to be affordable for a family of average income.
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post #4948 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Isn't this simply going to be thousands cheaper than the OLED?

I mean it's a legitimate comparison size wise, but I'm not of the mindset that anything priced thousands apart from anything else is really an actual competitor. (Note: What an individual might choose is one thing, the market tends to be more "rational" and not select between $9000 and $15,000 items).

If I'm wrong and the 77 inch OLED is going to be sub $10,000 then forget I mentioned this other than to say, "If the OLED QC/longevity problems are not there, I think you'd be insane to buy an edge-lit LCD over one for the same money." But if the OLED is basically going to be nearly 2x as much, I don't even see this as a competing product.
Mark, I can't argue with your logic. My comparison was based on purely non-monetary assessments, with definitive pricing still somewhat in doubt.

With that said, I seem to be the only one on AVS that's concerned about 4K ecosystems in my purchasing considerations. Sony is far away the leader there and LG is nowhere to be seen. So this is yet another concern for me that transcends PQ. That's certainly not to say I'd throw away the PQ argument (you know me better than that), but it's simply another factor in the total equation.

My 4K camcorder footage is great for content, but I'd like to go beyond that.
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post #4949 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 07:29 PM
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do you think you would miss the OLED, now that you have lived with its pq, if you went to the ec9700?
I cannot speak for others but when you jump up in size to a Sony 900B or 950B 65" the impact of the bigger size has such an impact it is hard to watch a 55".

The blacks levels on the OLED are by far the best yet the Sony 900B 65" has excellent black levels. OLED's will amaze you even in commercial breaks with their black levels but never have drawn me in to a movie because of the size.
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post #4950 of 5084 Old 07-11-2014, 07:48 PM
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Mark, I can't argue with your logic. My comparison was based on purely non-monetary assessments, with definitive pricing still somewhat in doubt.

With that said, I seem to be the only one on AVS that's concerned about 4K ecosystems in my purchasing considerations. Sony is far away the leader there and LG is nowhere to be seen. So this is yet another concern for me that transcends PQ. That's certainly not to say I'd throw away the PQ argument (you know me better than that), but it's simply another factor in the total equation.

My 4K camcorder footage is great for content, but I'd like to go beyond that.

If you believe that there will only be walled gardens of 4K content in the future, picking the 4K TV vendor that has the best walled garden would be a valid consideration.


But if you believe that once 4K content truly becomes available for mass-consumption, it will be equally available to all TV brands, Sony's current walled garden translates into nothing more than a few movies that can be accessed in full 4K quality a bit earlier on a Sony TV than another brand. Especially given the upscaling capability for 1080p content, I would not see that as a significant enough of an advantage to influence my purchasing decision. Same price and same PQ, why not choose the TV with the best ecosystem / walled garden, but for either a premium in price or a degradation in PQ, it would not be a significant enough consideration to steer me away from the best price-performance despite the inferior content ecosystem.
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