LG 55EA9800 55" OLED Owner's thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #901 of 5255 Old 03-30-2014, 06:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Wizziwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^There is no scrolling bar option in the menu options...I guess LG doesn't think it's necessary (a good sign hopefully). If need be, I can use pixel flipper if any stubborn IR develops.
Well, thanks for making me feel like I wasted 10 minutes by entertaining someone's curiosity and using the best cam I have on-hand. wink.gif Not all visual anomalies need perfect photo reproduction to get a general idea (i.e. in spite of my far from adequate equipment, the board imprint behind the screen can clearly be seen in my photo).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbinMerritt View Post

I tried a 10% gray field last night and I see a very similar pattern. I can see hints of it as high as 30%

Not a waste of time at all. I'm sure the last thing you guys want to do is hunt for defects in your brand new set so I appreciate the effort. Thanks for taking one for the AVS team!

At least we know this low-level non-uniformity is normal for these sets and there's no sense exchanging.

I was kind of surprised this didn't cause more DSE during panning scenes that I tested at the store. It behaves much better than a plasma or LCD would.

I wonder what part of LG's manufacturing process causes it. Is it their IGZO or WRGB tech?
Wizziwig is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #902 of 5255 Old 03-30-2014, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 11,821
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 184 Post(s)
Liked: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbinMerritt View Post

Prepare to be impressed!
Yes indeed !
Cleveland Plasma is offline  
post #903 of 5255 Old 03-30-2014, 07:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
RobbinMerritt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post



I was kind of surprised this didn't cause more DSE during panning scenes that I tested at the store. It behaves much better than a plasma or LCD would.

I've been throwing all the "distinctive" content I can think of at it -- light and dark. I've yet to see a flaw in real viewing.

I also think I've caught some of the lazy pixels in action out of the corner of my eye when doing the calibration report. I'm not going to take a long exposure shot because I don't want to know the full extent of that issue. Again, not visible in the real world.

Robbin
RobbinMerritt is offline  
post #904 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 12:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Theplague13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Jersey
Posts: 1,046
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked: 325
Me as well, Robbin. As stated I know my low level near blacks aren't perfect, there are even some clouds but in ALL real world viewing ( and I am completely OCD about seeing imperfections as most of you already know, so I wouldn't just say this) there has not been a single image which doesn't beat out every other tv I've seen.

I recently watched an anime, Samurai X (or rorouni kenshin OVA's for the initiated), and it is anamorphic in 480p......plus it's an old drawing and has never looked good. While the bars on top and bottom were black, shades of gray permeated this image. Within them I saw some digital noise which highlighted their nonuniformity. I went and placed noise reduction and MPEG NR on low each and it was near-perfect again. Also, what I just pointed out is something only I would see and if others were over watching they would instead be mesmerized by how an SD drawing can look so rich on my tv. But because those grays bothered me I thought to utilize a built in tool and no problems arose henceforth. There is no DSE on anything ever, period. DSE drives me nuts.

I want to emphasize that this content was also very unusual, because I use my tv for such a wide variety and STILL I was able to elevate the image just above anything else I've seen it on (though obviously not perfect.)

People are worrying far too much, which I totally understand for buying one of the first oleds at a price point they can easily have 4k at, but really I would put all those concerns aside because you are better off having the best of what's available now (oled 1080 w/infinite contrast) for a price that meets the worst of what you will want 5 years from now (edge-lit 4k with no content and new up-scaling tech)

Of course the 2014 model will be better.....as with everything you ever buy but the bottom line is that LG stepped it up here big big time, and it can be owned and enjoyed right out of the box with the content you already have.

Dead pixels are the absolute only variable in this panel lottery, and while annoying and I too have them, LG is apparently going so far as to fix them in my house in one day even for a discontinued product. I can't see how anyone can go wrong by making this plunge.

Vinnie97, one of the kindest, most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before we all get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified. Date the ban will be lifted: Never
Pick up the signature.
Theplague13 is offline  
post #905 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 01:44 AM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1002
Sunshine (Danny Boyle) is another must-watch...I feel goosebumps coming on in some of those black voids. Space *is* a vacuum after all, and this LG recreates it with flying colors (er blacks biggrin.gif). It's almost comical now how I am finding myself more distracted by the color space limitations and the visible gradations that come with them as opposed to a lack of blacks. It makes sense because color accuracy and uniformity is obviously the next most important PQ parameter after contrast ratio....so get on it, BDA! It's time to finalize those high-rez Blu-ray specs.
Masterbrew2 and Dafadau like this.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #906 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 02:20 AM
Member
 
Dafadau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12

Making a note of the film recommendations! Note that I'll be getting mine just in time for Game of Thrones...

Dafadau is offline  
post #907 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 02:39 AM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1002
^That alone will be a treat on this set, I have little doubt. You're in for a long haul. I have just been rummaging through my collection, watching those productions which I feel will take most advantage. Any IMAX content is also going to be a delight, although the plot and writing may leave much to be desired (see Transformers 2, Revenge of the Fallen...perhaps just observe the robot fight in the first half and the desert scene near the end and call it a day wink.gif). The Batman trilogy should also be gorgeous (not having watched it yet on here, don't quote me). I thought Moon (with Sam Rockwell) was going to be a treat and while it looked fantastic, the space scenes were nowhere near as "deep" as those on Sunshine. They included lots of light scatter (perhaps trying to recreate the light noise created by huge clusters of stars, galaxies, constellations, etc?)...just some random content thoughts here.
Dafadau likes this.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #908 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 05:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Theplague13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Jersey
Posts: 1,046
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked: 325
Gonna pick up some random blu ray after work today, preferably something I haven't seen. I'd love to experience gravity on this set but unfortunately I watched a compressed, streamed version of it a while back so it's kinda ruined but....if it hasn't already been said, those voids of space would be stunning.

Sunshine, haven't seen that one vinnie. Could be a contender. Also something 1:78:1 would be nice. Batman trilogy indeed looked great. Not interested in transformers at all....what else is just "epic", with lots of shadowy scenes that I haven't watched......

Vinnie97, one of the kindest, most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before we all get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified. Date the ban will be lifted: Never
Pick up the signature.
Theplague13 is offline  
post #909 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 05:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Theplague13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Jersey
Posts: 1,046
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked: 325
Then there's that fact staring me in the face that ive never watched anything in 3d in a home environment...ever. Never really appealed to me before but now might be a good time to give it a shot, any recommendations on that front ?

Vinnie97, one of the kindest, most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before we all get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified. Date the ban will be lifted: Never
Pick up the signature.
Theplague13 is offline  
post #910 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 06:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Theplague13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Jersey
Posts: 1,046
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked: 325
Oh, another recommendation for others: pans labyrinth.

Vinnie97, one of the kindest, most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before we all get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified. Date the ban will be lifted: Never
Pick up the signature.
Theplague13 is offline  
post #911 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 06:16 AM
Advanced Member
 
RobbinMerritt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

Then there's that fact staring me in the face that ive never watched anything in 3d in a home environment...ever. Never really appealed to me before but now might be a good time to give it a shot, any recommendations on that front ?

I recommend Avatar. It kicked off the current 3D movie craze and the night scenes look very good on the LG. The opening space screens are also stunning on a OLED.

Robbin
RobbinMerritt is offline  
post #912 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 06:19 AM
Advanced Member
 
phreaky_d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

Then there's that fact staring me in the face that ive never watched anything in 3d in a home environment...ever. Never really appealed to me before but now might be a good time to give it a shot, any recommendations on that front ?

Plague, I'd say go with Avatar, Grand Canyon Adventure, and The Ultimate Wave-Tahiti for some good 3D stuff. I'll look forward to your 3D impressions, since I don't have any experience with passive 3D (only active). wink.gif

Samsung KN55S9C OLED TV
LG EL9500 OLED TV
Sony XEL-1 OLED TV
Samsung UN55C8000 3D LED TV
Samsung BD-C6900 and BD-F5900 3D Blu-ray players
Onkyo HT-S770 home theater system
phreaky_d is offline  
post #913 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 06:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Theplague13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Jersey
Posts: 1,046
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked: 325
Actually I have that super mega extended version of avatar on blu ray already....unsure if it's the 3d version gotta check, only watched it once. If it isn't though I'm not gonna double dip frown.gif

Vinnie97, one of the kindest, most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before we all get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified. Date the ban will be lifted: Never
Pick up the signature.
Theplague13 is offline  
post #914 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 06:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Theplague13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Jersey
Posts: 1,046
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked: 325
Question: I've got my set calibrated nicely now (by wow and eyeballing, but conforming nicely to my preferences); when I pop in a 3d blu ray do in have to readjust everything? I've heard it gets extremely dark and subdued in 3d and you have to jack up backlighting and brightness or blacks can be crushed

Vinnie97, one of the kindest, most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before we all get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified. Date the ban will be lifted: Never
Pick up the signature.
Theplague13 is offline  
post #915 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 06:34 AM
Advanced Member
 
phreaky_d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

Question: I've got my set calibrated nicely now (by wow and eyeballing, but conforming nicely to my preferences); when I pop in a 3d blu ray do in have to readjust everything? I've heard it gets extremely dark and subdued in 3d and you have to jack up backlighting and brightness or blacks can be crushed

I don't believe you should have to adjust anything since the LG 3D is passive...the only time things get dim is with active 3D, such as what Samsung uses. And with respect to Avatar, I don't think an extended 3D version was ever released, so I believe your extended version does not have 3D. The other picks will do nicely for you, though!

Samsung KN55S9C OLED TV
LG EL9500 OLED TV
Sony XEL-1 OLED TV
Samsung UN55C8000 3D LED TV
Samsung BD-C6900 and BD-F5900 3D Blu-ray players
Onkyo HT-S770 home theater system
phreaky_d is offline  
post #916 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 06:37 AM
Advanced Member
 
RobbinMerritt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

Question: I've got my set calibrated nicely now (by wow and eyeballing, but conforming nicely to my preferences); when I pop in a 3d blu ray do in have to readjust everything? I've heard it gets extremely dark and subdued in 3d and you have to jack up backlighting and brightness or blacks can be crushed

Depending on what adjustments you have made, I suppose its possible. I'm running THX mode and I don't see any of the issues in 3D that you describe.

My understanding is that active 3D loses brightness but passive 3D loses resolution. I can definitely see the change in resolution in 3D but the brightness seems the same on my set.

Robbin
RobbinMerritt is offline  
post #917 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 06:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Theplague13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Jersey
Posts: 1,046
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked: 325
Yeah, I know we lose res with passive, brightness I wasn't sure I just know t happens in the the theater and I've read in the home but you may be right that passive circumvents the issue by taking from res instead. Again, have yet to try. Though awesomely accurate and probably the best depending on content, for normal viewing THX is just a bit TOO dark for my tastes. Plus I hate being locked out of everything, lol

Vinnie97, one of the kindest, most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before we all get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified. Date the ban will be lifted: Never
Pick up the signature.
Theplague13 is offline  
post #918 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 11:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fafrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbinMerritt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

Question: I've got my set calibrated nicely now (by wow and eyeballing, but conforming nicely to my preferences); when I pop in a 3d blu ray do in have to readjust everything? I've heard it gets extremely dark and subdued in 3d and you have to jack up backlighting and brightness or blacks can be crushed

Depending on what adjustments you have made, I suppose its possible. I'm running THX mode and I don't see any of the issues in 3D that you describe.

My understanding is that active 3D loses brightness but passive 3D loses resolution. I can definitely see the change in resolution in 3D but the brightness seems the same on my set.

You lose brightness with both active and passive 3D - with passive you lose vertical resolution as well.

Both technologies are different ways of steering half of the frame date into each eye, so each eye receives only 1/2 of the brightness it received from the 2D image and hence brightness is reduced by 1/2 (which can be compensated for by increasing brightness, often done automatically by the 3D setting as long as brightness was not already at max).

In the case of active, it's one native refresh frame into the left eye and then one native refresh frame into the right eye, so native refresh rate is effectively cut in half (120Hz native becomes 60Hz into each eye) but every frame is full 1080p.

In the case of passive, every other line is polarized in the opposite direction, so by wearing the passive polarized glasses, all even lines pass through to the left eye and all odd lines pass through to the right eye. So native refresh rate is maintained (120Hz native stays 120Hz into each eye) but there are only 540 alternating lines going into each eye.
fafrd is online now  
post #919 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 12:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,938
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Liked: 577
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbinMerritt View Post

Depending on what adjustments you have made, I suppose its possible. I'm running THX mode and I don't see any of the issues in 3D that you describe.

My understanding is that active 3D loses brightness but passive 3D loses resolution. I can definitely see the change in resolution in 3D but the brightness seems the same on my set.

You lose brightness with both active and passive 3D - with passive you lose vertical resolution as well.

Both technologies are different ways of steering half of the frame date into each eye, so each eye receives only 1/2 of the brightness it received from the 2D image and hence brightness is reduced by 1/2

 

Excuse me, but did you just wing this one, or did you even try to look it up?  That is not the case.  Besides actual measurements, it is generally recognized empirically (as I have also found) that a passive implementation will be noticeably brighter than an active one.

 

Here is from the 3D brightness section of displaymate.com:

 

Quote:

Active Glasses:  For the TVs with Active Glasses there are two reasons for the decrease in brightness:  first, the TV’s 240 Hz Refresh Rate involves a repeating sequence of 4 sub-frames:  left eye image, black frame, right eye image, black frame. The black frames are introduced to reduce contamination between the right and left eye images, an effect called Crosstalk that produces ghost images. In addition to being annoying Crosstalk muffles the 3D visual effects. The black frames are needed due to the limited Response Time of the LCD pixels, which don’t change quickly enough when switching between the right and left images. The 4 sub-frame sequence results in only 25 percent of the 2D Peak Brightness being provided for each eye. Second reason:  the light also needs to go through the LCD shutters in the Active Glasses and they only allow about half of the light to pass through when the shutter is open. So for Active Glasses in 3D mode each eye only gets to see about 12.5 percent of the 2D peak Brightness. The actual measured values are shown in Table 1.

 

FPR Passive Glasses:  For the TVs with FPR Passive Glasses there are also two reasons for the decrease in brightness:  the TV Brightness remains the same as in 2D, but the polarized glasses block half of the raster lines, so only 50 percent of the 2D Peak Brightness is provided for each eye. Second, the light transmission of the circularly polarized light through the Passive Glasses is about 80 percent. So for FPR Passive Glasses in 3D mode each eye gets about 40 percent of the 2D Brightness – which is roughly 3 times the throughput of the Active Glasses. The actual measured values are shown in Table 1.

 

Table 1. Measured 2D and 3D Brightness (Luminance)  –  Larger is Better

 

Samsung TV

Active Glasses

Sony TV

Active Glasses

LG TV

Passive Glasses

Vizio TV

Passive Glasses

2D Brightness

456 cd/m2

392 cd/m2

358 cd/m2

441 cd/m2

3D Brightness

61 cd/m2

60 cd/m2

152 cd/m2

157 cd/m2

3D / 2D

Brightness Ratio

0.13

0.15

0.42

0.36

 

 


 

Quote:

Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

In the case of passive, every other line is polarized in the opposite direction, so by wearing the passive polarized glasses, all even lines pass through to the left eye and all odd lines pass through to the right eye. So native refresh rate is maintained (120Hz native stays 120Hz into each eye) but there are only 540 alternating lines going into each eye.

 

I'm sorry but this isn't necessarily correct either.  LG claims that there is an attempt to display 1080p per eye.  They do this by following the Left eye odd scanline information by the Left eye even scanline information on those same odd scanline (and similarly for the right eye).  It's still 540 at a time but you get 1080 lines per eye (this is more than a bit of a crock) and the refresh rate is still hacked in half as a result.  Now here's where it gets confusing: LG will double the rate during the 3D to compensate for this....but this is far from accepted as always the case.  Either way, it's further confusing because LG was briefly listing their TVs at the higher rate when it was 3D only: In fact I remember one of their 2012 TVs being changed from being called 120Hz on Amazon to 60Hz for this reason.

 

Here's Geoffrey Morrison's explanation on what LG is claiming:

 

Quote:

LG claims they show all the resolution in the 1080p signal to each eye temporally. As in, the TV shows the odd lines of resolution on the odd lines of the TV, then flash the even lines of resolution on the odd lines of the TV (and the opposite for the even lines).
fafrd likes this.

WARNING: You have now entered a no @#$%tard zone. Please gather your anti-vaccine propaganda nonsense and slowly back out the way you came in.
tgm1024 is online now  
post #920 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 01:08 PM
Advanced Member
 
Chere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Hey Vinnie- can you give us a brief comparison/ differences between your OLED and the ZT60? How's overall video processing when it comes to scaling and de-interlacing of 1080i and 720p tv content compared between the two?
fafrd likes this.
Chere is offline  
post #921 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 01:17 PM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1002
I don't have them side-by-side unfortunately so it would require reliance upon memory. Also, the only 720p content watched thus far was Netflix, so I'm not sure of the validity of that comparison given the variable streaming quality. Finally, I don't have a 1080i source (such as a digital receiver or antenna) connected to the LG at the moment. Hopefully, I can revisit the question at some point in the future if I get this in order (I suppose I can force the Blu-ray player to output 1080i and/or 720p to see how it looks).
vinnie97 is offline  
post #922 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 02:22 PM
Advanced Member
 
Chere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 51
No rush. Anytime you get an antenna or a STB hooked up to it, let us know then. How about Blu ray though? How close is the ZT60 to the OLED?
Chere is offline  
post #923 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 02:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fafrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbinMerritt View Post

Depending on what adjustments you have made, I suppose its possible. I'm running THX mode and I don't see any of the issues in 3D that you describe.

My understanding is that active 3D loses brightness but passive 3D loses resolution. I can definitely see the change in resolution in 3D but the brightness seems the same on my set.


You lose brightness with both active and passive 3D - with passive you lose vertical resolution as well.


Both technologies are different ways of steering half of the frame date into each eye, so each eye receives only 1/2 of the brightness it received from the 2D image and hence brightness is reduced by 1/2

Excuse me, but did you just wing this one, or did you even try to look it up?  That is not the case.  Besides actual measurements, it is generally recognized empirically (as I have also found) that a passive implementation will be noticeably brighter than an active one.

Here is from the 3D brightness section of displaymate.com:
Quote:
Active Glasses:  For the TVs with Active Glasses there are two reasons for the decrease in brightness:  first, the TV’s 240 Hz Refresh Rate involves a repeating sequence of 4 sub-frames:  left eye image, black frame, right eye image, black frame. The black frames are introduced to reduce contamination between the right and left eye images, an effect called Crosstalk that produces ghost images. In addition to being annoying Crosstalk muffles the 3D visual effects. The black frames are needed due to the limited Response Time of the LCD pixels, which don’t change quickly enough when switching between the right and left images. The 4 sub-frame sequence results in only 25 percent of the 2D Peak Brightness being provided for each eye. Second reason:  the light also needs to go through the LCD shutters in the Active Glasses and they only allow about half of the light to pass through when the shutter is open. So for Active Glasses in 3D mode each eye only gets to see about 12.5 percent of the 2D peak Brightness. The actual measured values are shown in Table 1.

FPR Passive Glasses:  For the TVs with FPR Passive Glasses there are also two reasons for the decrease in brightness:  the TV Brightness remains the same as in 2D, but the polarized glasses block half of the raster lines, so only 50 percent of the 2D Peak Brightness is provided for each eye. Second, the light transmission of the circularly polarized light through the Passive Glasses is about 80 percent. So for FPR Passive Glasses in 3D mode each eye gets about 40 percent of the 2D Brightness – which is roughly 3 times the throughput of the Active Glasses. The actual measured values are shown in Table 1.

Table 1. Measured 2D and 3D Brightness (Luminance)  –  Larger is Better
Samsung TV
Active Glasses
Sony TV
Active Glasses
LG TV
Passive Glasses
Vizio TV
Passive Glasses
2D Brightness

456 cd/m2 392 cd/m2 358 cd/m2 441 cd/m2
3D Brightness 61 cd/m2 60 cd/m2 152 cd/m2 157 cd/m2
3D / 2D
Brightness Ratio
0.13 0.15 0.42 0.36




 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

In the case of passive, every other line is polarized in the opposite direction, so by wearing the passive polarized glasses, all even lines pass through to the left eye and all odd lines pass through to the right eye. So native refresh rate is maintained (120Hz native stays 120Hz into each eye) but there are only 540 alternating lines going into each eye.
Quote:
LG claims they show all the resolution in the 1080p signal to each eye temporally. As in, the TV shows the odd lines of resolution on the odd lines of the TV, then flash the even lines of resolution on the odd lines of the TV (and the opposite for the even lines).

That is exactly what I did (winged it :-).

Was not aware of the need for black frame insertion with Active 3D nor the increased brightness loss through active LCD glasses versus polarized passive glasses. In any case, the loss of brightness from both active or passive 3D is correct, as is the loss of vertical resolution in passive 3D only (despite LGs stated attempt to turn 2D 1080p into 3D pseudo-1080i).

So summing up the question from the original poster, Active loses more brightness than passive, but passive also loses resolution...

p.s. thanks for the additional detail and the time you took to provide it
fafrd is online now  
post #924 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 02:30 PM
Member
 
Pioneer Insider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chere View Post

Hey Vinnie- can you give us a brief comparison/ differences between your OLED and the ZT60? How's overall video processing when it comes to scaling and de-interlacing of 1080i and 720p tv content compared between the two?

 

This past Saturday I saw 4 very high end TVs all near each-other with the same content.  The models were, 65" VT60 calibrated and in the ISF Day mode, Samsung's KN55S9 OLED, LG's two OLEDs 55EA9800 and the flat 55EA8800.   They all had the same content, some Direct-TV and some Blu-Ray.   To my eye the EA8800 looked best followed by the EA9800 and then the KN55S9.   Sorry to say this but the only calibrated TV, Panasonic's 65" VT60 looked the worst.  The EA8800 was wall mounted next to the VT60 and the 2 curved OLEDs were on furniture next to each-other just to the left of the VT60.

 

The main differences were contrast ratio and color saturation, which was far superior on all three OLEDs.  The deep blacks, very bright whites and excellent color saturation gave the OLED a look of real life and they generated far more detail than the plasma.

 

Greg

vaktmestern likes this.
Pioneer Insider is offline  
post #925 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 02:41 PM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chere View Post

No rush. Anytime you get an antenna or a STB hooked up to it, let us know then. How about Blu ray though? How close is the ZT60 to the OLED?
I also need to put an antenna on the roof to pull in a decent # of channels. eek.gif

On Blu-ray 24 fps content, I am having difficulty noticing any motion deficiencies on the OLED versus the ZT. The OLED can get both darker and brighter, so there's really no contest in the CR realm. Watch a movie with low APL content, and the OLED excels even further.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #926 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 03:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Theplague13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Jersey
Posts: 1,046
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked: 325
Well I'm sorry I started such a war over the whole 3d issue....it really doesn't matter to me, I was just wondering if I should expect to have to change my settings or not...to which I got a whole lot more confusion; by the time I checked this thread again there was an intense battle waging, lol.

In any case, best buy didn't have much of a selection but I went with Prometheus 3d. Never saw it, looks like it's gonna be filled with shadowy otherworldly vistas and whatnot, with 3d that accentuates depth as opposed to just throwing stuff in your face which should fit nicely both with what this set excels at and what id be interested in as far as 3d is concerned, and this will be my first so it's time to take a little toke and have some "me" time.

Vinnie97, one of the kindest, most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before we all get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified. Date the ban will be lifted: Never
Pick up the signature.
Theplague13 is offline  
post #927 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 04:54 PM
Senior Member
 
Xavier1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 388
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer Insider View Post

This past Saturday I saw 4 very high end TVs all near each-other with the same content.  The models were, 65" VT60 calibrated and in the ISF Day mode, Samsung's KN55S9 OLED, LG's two OLEDs 55EA9800 and the flat 55EA8800.   They all had the same content, some Direct-TV and some Blu-Ray.   To my eye the EA8800 looked best followed by the EA9800 and then the KN55S9.   Sorry to say this but the only calibrated TV, Panasonic's 65" VT60 looked the worst.  The EA8800 was wall mounted next to the VT60 and the 2 curved OLEDs were on furniture next to each-other just to the left of the VT60.

The main differences were contrast ratio and color saturation, which was far superior on all three OLEDs.  The deep blacks, very bright whites and excellent color saturation gave the OLED a look of real life and they generated far more detail than the plasma.

Greg

Thanks for your impressions Greg.

Just curious, what were the room and lighting conditions like? I find evaluating in my local Best Buys very difficult because of the glaring bright lights and reflections.

Still, nice to hear OLED is really living up to all the hype. I'm hoping LG can get the prices down on the 65" version whenever it comes out, that will be on my radar for sure,
Pioneer Insider likes this.
Xavier1 is offline  
post #928 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 07:36 PM
Member
 
Pioneer Insider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 31

The store is somewhat bright, but the lighting is soft.  The owner brags about the store's all low wattage LED lamps, but it also has a large skylight.  He said all of the store light add up to 90 watts. 

 

I arrived around 5 pm, near the end of the event and the owners and some Sony guys were hanging out discussing the event.  The event was titled Sony Hi-Res Audio, but the OLED TVs and an over the top 4K theater stole the show.  The staff wanted to see the OLED and plasma in low light so they drew the black out drapery and we watched the 3 OLED TVsvand one VT60 for about an hour. 

 

I tried to be very quiet and transparent as I don't think I was supposed to be there. 

 

I did not sleep for the past 2 nights thinking of the OLED TV beautiful picture quality.  My next TV will be an OLED. 

Xavier1 likes this.
Pioneer Insider is offline  
post #929 of 5255 Old 03-31-2014, 10:07 PM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1002
Ah, sounds like Value Electronics. I'd been waiting for OLED since after the Kuro debuted (or for Panasonic to catch up), but they've now been leapfrogged obviously.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #930 of 5255 Old 04-01-2014, 01:00 AM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1002
Another deep space recommend: Event Horizon (even though the transfer isn't flawless)
vinnie97 is offline  
Reply Flat Panels General and OLED Technology

Tags
Lg 55ea9800 Oled Hdtv , Lg
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off