LG 55EA9800 55" OLED Owner's thread - Page 55 - AVS Forum
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post #1621 of 5910 Old 04-18-2014, 03:44 PM
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I think its the Lg auto dimming of its light to prevent burn in thats was the issue
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post #1622 of 5910 Old 04-18-2014, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Here's all that's been shared so far (as a public service/reminder to everybody following the discussion). Hopefully, D will chime in:
Maybe it just takes more time than he had.

It does take more time he only had a few hours and at first everything was running smoothly until the CMS settings that is where things got cooky but he will be back and is going to dedicated a full day to calibrate the unit and get it right but he had some very interesting things to say about both units the first being the wrgb vs rgb he felt samsung had a better OLED however the wrgb is much easier to produce also he did not like the pentile screen on the LG because up close you could see the pixels. D nice overall loved both units but was immediately able to pick out issues with both sets the first being judder with the Samsung and the LG CMS settings being cooky. He also thinks the issue with the LG oled and the pixel issues people have been seeing is due to how the curve may put stress on the actual pixels using wrgb. These are just a few of the comments i took from D nice
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post #1623 of 5910 Old 04-18-2014, 04:07 PM
 
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That's interesting, didn't realize what LG used was a pentile layout. Does your flatscreen LG have any dead pixels?
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post #1624 of 5910 Old 04-18-2014, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

That's interesting, didn't realize what LG used was a pentile layout. Does your flatscreen LG have any dead pixels?

no it does not have any dead pixels but he really attributes that to the pixels being stretched with the curve because mine is flat he felt the set would not be as susceptible to dead pixels
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post #1625 of 5910 Old 04-18-2014, 04:21 PM
 
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Right, while anecdotal, that your set is pixel-perfect supports his theory (plus the fact that I have had two curved panels now with dead subpixels). Protip to potential buyers who are content with 55" and demand pixel perfection: Grab the flat one(s). wink.gif This is a definite problem for those of us who might want to go bigger in the near-term.
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post #1626 of 5910 Old 04-18-2014, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah I was reading about that. But I don't really get it. Like he said it wasn't possible to calibrate, or difficult, or it didnt have the correct settings?
Overall chad might not have been able to dial it in a good as he wanted, but I know the set we had turned out excellent.......
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post #1627 of 5910 Old 04-18-2014, 07:25 PM
 
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Update after running the break-in slides for about 34 hours: I'm up to 2 dead green subpixels now. The second one has appeared in the far left bottom corner (only a few rows above the screen border). Should this continue to regress, I may ask LG to give me the flat screen as an exchange. I didn't mind the curve before, but if the stress/complexity caused by the curve is contributing to these failures, I want absolutely nothing to do with it.
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post #1628 of 5910 Old 04-18-2014, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Right, while anecdotal, that your set is pixel-perfect supports his theory (plus the fact that I have had two curved panels now with dead subpixels). Protip to potential buyers who are content with 55" and demand pixel perfection: Grab the flat one(s). wink.gif This is a definite problem for those of us who might want to go bigger in the near-term.

Yeah, but a dead/stuck subpixel on a 4K display won't be visible unless under a microscope biggrin.gif Unless there are like 4 grouped together eek.gif

I don't think LG is gonna sweat it as most future OLEDs are gonna be 4K.
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post #1629 of 5910 Old 04-18-2014, 08:31 PM
 
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That's true. I doubt I'd sweat it as much on a 4K panel either, as long as it wasn't a regressive or cascading failure situation as in Plague's blue subpixel failures. The question is how bad would it ultimately get? Definitely grab an ext. warranty on these experiments.
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post #1630 of 5910 Old 04-18-2014, 09:13 PM
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O my vin, my condolences on the second of your greens. I feel as though we're going through this together and I'm lamenting a real loss, even if two greens may still not yet cause a major viewing problem.

As a whole, via multiple owners with multiple panels, this IS indeed a very big production issue. Knowing that it is inevitable for some pixels to be defective out of the box is poor qc, but as I've previously said what's MUCH more disconcerting is the ability for pixels (or subs) to die within hours of their lifespan. Quite simply, this is something that DOES NOT happen except in extreme rare circumstances or years down the line.

And what's more STILL, is how my cascading problem occurs on blue while all other subs remain perfect (starting with 2 and ending up with 8 all on the same color), and now vinnie here had his second green one fail within 34 hours while the rest remain intact.

The curvature of the screen remains a viable scapegoat but if this was the case, what gives with the seemingly more fragile subcolors on each panel? Why blue for me and green for vin (which was white on his last panel, I presume). It is truly a phenomenon worthy of exchanging sets despite wanting so badly to own and love this behemoth. I don't care what anybody says, at a reasonable viewing distance SDE, though noticeable, is NOT a terminating problem of the 9800 (cannot speak for gallery).

What a shame, really. On Monday I'll be reporting on MY second panel as well. Could the motherboard be causing these problems, mayhap? I mean, ClevelandP seems to have seen his fair share of these sets without concern. Masterbrew has not reported a problem yet and I dont know of anymore definite owners on the forum but may have forgotten someone.

There is truly NOTHING else on the market better at this pricepoint. As we've discussed the xbr950b right around the bend seems ultimately promising but it's 3k more and LCD so will most likely have banding and bloom. I mean, cmon here. How can LG claim to have a one pixel policy when this is going on? And the Samsung remains a non-option as well as they haven't slashed their msrp from 9k still, though PC Richard has them that's 4k more for what's supposedly mildly better or the same (depending on reviewer) as the LG.

Vin, I'm hoping for you intently--may your greens not cascade any further--and for us and masterbrew as well, my fellow gamer. This set truly performs MIRACLES on video games, as all my completely non-videophile friends attested to before even being told the virtues of what I'd purchased. Master, have you run slides by any chance to check for rotten subs on your set?

...also, I too do not think you will be able to see one dead pixel on 4k except for under microscope. I found what I thought was one at the store on the Sammie but I was actively seeking them out 2 inches from the screen and still wasn't sure my eyes weren't deceiving me, whereas with 1080 there's no mistaking one once found. It'd be a shame to feel like I need 4k JUST to avoid seeing defects which shouldn't be there in the first place and have never before been on any display I've owned or seen from others', except as a rare exception and never the rule.

Vinnie97, one of the kindest, most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before we all get such a message...
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post #1631 of 5910 Old 04-18-2014, 11:15 PM
 
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IF this is the end of my defects, I'll be thrilled. That there is a weakness with the failures happening on only one color in each panel is indeed a curiosity and seems like something LG could wrestle more control over with better QC. It's been postulated that the transistors might be to blame but one would expect a more equitable distribution of failure across multiple colors in a panel. We need an LG engineer to chime in. smile.gif Anyhow, they are in a fever pitch race to reduce manuf. costs, so I am quite sure they're feeling the pull in both directions. I'm still rooting for them.
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post #1632 of 5910 Old 04-19-2014, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

What a shame, really. On Monday I'll be reporting on MY second panel as well. Could the motherboard be causing these problems, mayhap? I mean, ClevelandP seems to have seen his fair share of these sets without concern. Masterbrew has not reported a problem yet and I dont know of anymore definite owners on the forum but may have forgotten someone.
 

 

 

I have scrutinized mine only a little bit, and found one dead of each color, except white.

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post #1633 of 5910 Old 04-19-2014, 03:05 AM
 
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^Sorry to hear that, seems to be a common theme. Just loaded up a Pixar this evening so I could simultaneously give it a workout without watching paint dry (aka slides), only to see that I now have a blue that's gone. On the slides that had been running earlier this evening, that color had been pixel-perfect, and I was scratching my head as to why I could see this on the blue background of the UP menu screen when it dawned on me this was subpixel failure #3 (on the left-hand side again, above and slightly to the left of the defective green that's in the middle left section of the screen). If one sits within 5 to 6 feet, it doesn't take much to see these and is disconcerting as hell. If I viewed in the vicinity of 10 feet away, I might not give it a second thought, but this set has less than 50 hours on it! Does this mean I'll have 6 by the 100th hour? Time will tell.

These local techs are gonna' begin to dread me and put me on call block (or maybe LG will beat them to it). I think I'll let this panel attain at least 300 hours before I explore further solutions, just to see if said transistors continue to drop like flies.

Dunno if we can pin it on the mobo or the software or the curvaceous design or what have you.

If a bendable unit ever arrives, buyer beware! That one should look like Swiss cheese in short order.
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post #1634 of 5910 Old 04-19-2014, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by one pixpolicyl policyne pixel policyheplague13 View Post

O my vin, my condolences on the second of your greens. I feel as though we're going through this together and I'm lamenting a real loss, even if two greens may still not yet cause a major viewing problem.

...also, I too do not think you will be able to see one dead pixel on 4k except for under microscope. I found what I thought was one at the store on the Sammie but I was actively seeking them out 2 inches from the screen and still wasn't sure my eyes weren't deceiving me, whereas with 1080 there's no mistaking one once found. It'd be a shame to feel like I need 4k JUST to avoid seeing defects which shouldn't be there in the first place and have never before been on any display I've owned or seen from others', except as a rare exception and never the rule.

LG have a one pixel policy ? I can't find any info on this or is it just for this TV.
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post #1635 of 5910 Old 04-19-2014, 04:38 AM
 
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Plague was told this by the VIP/concierge support line, and it applies only to their premium OLEDs as far as I can tell. I think they're going to go broke trying to uphold it from all the complaining OCD pixel-peeping freaks.
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post #1636 of 5910 Old 04-19-2014, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

That's interesting, didn't realize what LG used was a pentile layout. Does your flatscreen LG have any dead pixels?
confused.gif Vertical RGBW stripes as shown in the picture of the LG in this thread isn't a pentile matrix. This shows a RGBW pentile matrix.
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Plague was told this by the VIP/concierge support line, and it applies only to their premium OLEDs as far as I can tell. I think they're going to go broke trying to uphold it from all the complaining OCD pixel-peeping freaks.
I'd guess that most of the people buying these OLED sets aren't pixel peepers and will never notice. It's just the AVS crowd. biggrin.gif
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post #1637 of 5910 Old 04-19-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

That's interesting, didn't realize what LG used was a pentile layout. Does your flatscreen LG have any dead pixels?
confused.gif Vertical RGBW stripes as shown in the picture of the LG in this thread isn't a pentile matrix. This shows a RGBW pentile matrix.

 

I was going to mention that.  RGBW isn't synonymous with pentile.  Much of the pentile arrangements are RGBG anyway.  Also, pentile is primarily a samsung thing and LG even went out of their way to point out that they believe stripe is more effective.

 

BTW, Pentile is an interesting beast.  Most of the original arguments for it have to do with AMOLED longevity, but an optics/image/color scientist friend of mine likes it because he views it primarily as a way of reducing the natural aliasing that occurs from the eyes detecting the RGB's always in a regimented rectilinear grid (his explanation goes on for quite a while).  I personally find it an irking concept, but I'm slowly understanding the beauty of it more and more.  It's primarily something that works best visibly in (effectively) high PPI screens though like phones.

 

Here's a nifty set of illustrations that I like----I can't vouch for their numerical accuracy, but it's the clearest I've seen to date and I think it's correct.  The actual values I question (because they're not weighted properly), but the gist is clear.  Note how pentile subpixel values change depending upon positions.

 

http://www.clivemaxfield.com/diycalculator/popup-h-rgbwnum.shtml:

 

 

Lighting up the pixel in row 2 column 2

 

Lighting up the pixel in row 3 column 2
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post #1638 of 5910 Old 04-19-2014, 08:21 AM
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^Sorry to hear that, seems to be a common theme. Just loaded up a Pixar this evening so I could simultaneously give it a workout without watching paint dry (aka slides), only to see that I now have a blue that's gone. On the slides that had been running earlier this evening, that color had been pixel-perfect, and I was scratching my head as to why I could see this on the blue background of the UP menu screen when it dawned on me this was subpixel failure #3 (on the left-hand side again, above and slightly to the left of the defective green that's in the middle left section of the screen). If one sits within 5 to 6 feet, it doesn't take much to see these and is disconcerting as hell. If I viewed in the vicinity of 10 feet away, I might not give it a second thought, but this set has less than 50 hours on it! Does this mean I'll have 6 by the 100th hour? Time will tell.

These local techs are gonna' begin to dread me and put me on call block (or maybe LG will beat them to it). I think I'll let this panel attain at least 300 hours before I explore further solutions, just to see if said transistors continue to drop like flies.

Dunno if we can pin it on the mobo or the software or the curvaceous design or what have you.

If a bendable unit ever arrives, buyer beware! That one should look like Swiss cheese in short order.

My advice to you, is to not even look or exam it until 300 hours has passed. After that, inspect it and if it has more dead pixels than you can tolerate get a refund. For the price you paid you rightfully demand a certain level of reliable quality, but I don't think OLED tech is going to be able to deliver that to you. At least not in these curved units.
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post #1639 of 5910 Old 04-19-2014, 08:44 AM
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^^^I was going to mention something like this too.  Vinnie, you're a videophile.  Once the shock-and-awe of OLED becomes "normal" to you, the dead subs are going to weigh on you over time.  At least, that's my guess.  A dead/stuck/schizophrenic subpixel is so abhorrent to me I wouldn't be able to stand it.  Even if I only saw it once every 10 days it'd be telling me "Good morning douchebag." every time.

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post #1640 of 5910 Old 04-19-2014, 08:59 AM
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I wonder if LG is reading this thread and thinking, oh **** it is the curve that is causing us all these replacements (!!!!)

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post #1641 of 5910 Old 04-19-2014, 09:49 AM
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^^^I was going to mention something like this too.  Vinnie, you're a videophile.  Once the shock-and-awe of OLED becomes "normal" to you, the dead subs are going to weigh on you over time.  At least, that's my guess.  A dead/stuck/schizophrenic subpixel is so abhorrent to me I wouldn't be able to stand it.  Even if I only saw it once every 10 days it'd be telling me "Good morning douchebag." every time.

This is how I've always looked at this sort if thing previously as well; but when the infinite contrast ratio of OLED becomes "normal" to your eyes then other sets will still look like crap even if they're pixel perfect which creates a catch 22.

What's crazy is that even if you got 19 panels replaced, every single time they'd make you feel like you were some isolated incident and otherwise these problems are never even on their radar, which can't be true. The retail chain begins to think you're unpleasable or unreasonable, while the manufacturer just denies that they've ever heard of such things over and over like broken records. Then of course the manual tells you that "specs" are normal because of the difficulties involved in creating so many pixels (even though we know this is bull). Everywhere you go you're treated as though you're crazy, or that somehow everyone else does have a perfect one except you.

I tried plugging my xbr5 in again and, well, it simply isn't tolerable. I never thought anamorphic bars were simply GRAY on it before until now. Now they're just GRAY. I'm beginning to think I shouldn't even bother having my panel replaced. That maybe I should just live with it the way it is for one year or two, then use my EW. I just wanted everything to be over with but I'm sure my next panel will have the same problems we all have now, if not worse, and no matter what Ill have it on my mind for at least a year or two.

Btw masterbrew I'm sorry I made you check redface.gif in this case blissful ignorance would probably have been better

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post #1642 of 5910 Old 04-19-2014, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Plague was told this by the VIP/concierge support line, and it applies only to their premium OLEDs as far as I can tell. I think they're going to go broke trying to uphold it from all the complaining OCD pixel-peeping freaks.

Might have to send an email to LG asking them about it then I'm so tempted to get this TV but I can not stand dead pixels doe's this one pixel policy apply to the UK too.
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I tried plugging my xbr5 in again and, well, it simply isn't tolerable. I never thought anamorphic bars were simply GRAY on it before until now. Now they're just GRAY. I'm beginning to think I shouldn't even bother having my panel replaced. That maybe I should just live with it the way it is for one year or two, then use my EW. I just wanted everything to be over with but I'm sure my next panel will have the same problems we all have now, if not worse, and no matter what Ill have it on my mind for at least a year or two.

I too cant go back to LCD I got a f8500 plasma last year but it had some problems and had to go back right when Samsung stopped selling them in the UK the blacks wasn't as good as the Panasonic plasmas but it had zero line bleed.

Now i need a TV for the World Cup and I don't want to watch it on some DSE fulled LCD.

I asked this before but no one answered does a full black screen show up the poor uniformity or does it only show up on grey ?
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post #1643 of 5910 Old 04-19-2014, 11:21 AM
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Coopson: a black screen is just that: BLACK. And I mean black as in quite simply turned OFF so, no. The pixels we're reporting are dead and therefore black themselves (only on said colors). If there is one thing you do not have to worry about it's black, that will quite simply blow your mind. And DSE as well, there's just none of that nor has it ever been mentioned on this thread.

Luke vinnie said, they only told me about the one pixel policy through their VIP line which only owners of this set and their flagship FALD I believe are entitled to access. However, despite that claim it does not seem even a remote possibility to obtain a pixel perfect panel. If you require one look elsewhere, plain and smple. Unless you want to be putting in warranty claims nonstop for the whole year it lasts.

I almost find it mildly insulting that on that very same line, if you ask they'll tell you that they've never even HEARD of a pixel problem with this tv so of COURSE they'll do the replacement when only one is out.

I did read one review that stated their model had no subs out BUT they probably tested this uniformity out of the box and got lucky. From there they most likely assumed (as they would be right to because as is the case with most tv's what comes malfunctioning out the box is all you have to worry about) that it remained perfectly uniform through all their tests, or 100-300 hours down the line. Because if you are lucky enough to receive a perfect panel there still seems to be an extremely high rate of post manufacturing pixel failure here.

Vinnie97, one of the kindest, most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before we all get such a message...
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confused.gif Vertical RGBW stripes as shown in the picture of the LG in this thread isn't a pentile matrix. This shows a RGBW pentile matrix.
I wasn't the one who made the pentile claim but was deferring to authority (D-Nice), or bigcoupe's interpretation of what he was told, on that topic. I briefly looked it up and it appears they have licensed it to other companies, but I am unfamiliar with it otherwise. Samsung's only new plasma for 2014 is using that layout, and it brought out much disgust from those who had been eagerly anticipating.
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My advice to you, is to not even look or exam it until 300 hours has passed. After that, inspect it and if it has more dead pixels than you can tolerate get a refund. For the price you paid you rightfully demand a certain level of reliable quality, but I don't think OLED tech is going to be able to deliver that to you. At least not in these curved units.
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

^^^I was going to mention something like this too.  Vinnie, you're a videophile.  Once the shock-and-awe of OLED becomes "normal" to you, the dead subs are going to weigh on you over time.  At least, that's my guess.  A dead/stuck/schizophrenic subpixel is so abhorrent to me I wouldn't be able to stand it.  Even if I only saw it once every 10 days it'd be telling me "Good morning douchebag." every time.
I understand and appreciate the sentiments, guys, but I in all likelihood don't have this avenue to pursue (unless LG themselves submit the refund). Live and learn, eh? Besides, Plague also has a point about being spoiled by the infinite contrast ratio. I still enjoy watching my ZT, for instance, but this set up opens up a new world of immersion for any low APL content. I will definitely keep periodically checking on it, sytech, through the 300 hours. If I'm unsatisfied, I'll still be tempted to ask for a flat one (hopefully better than a lateral move on the pixel defect front tongue.gif).
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post #1646 of 5910 Old 04-19-2014, 12:29 PM
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It'd be nice if LG was actually honest, and one could call them for comparitive information on the number of panels replaced due to pixel failures on their curved vs flat models worldwide but, alas, nobody that works there has EVER heard of a bad pixel on one of THEIR sets.

I wonder if it's actually in their job description to say that when asked. I'd be inclined to think that they are just that dumb, but the reps on the VIP line don't actually seem that dumb so....who knows lol

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post #1647 of 5910 Old 04-19-2014, 12:47 PM
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If I have the same experience as vinnie with my second panel ill be inclined to think it's either due to the motherboard or some internal processing mechanism, or the curve as well (though for some reason I'm leaning towards the former). I know we've established that surface area is indeed a concern on pixel fidelity but just to throw it out there LG's curved OLED phone doesn't seem to have any grave issues popping up.. ..neither does the curved Sammie (though barely anybody has one).

I won't be thinking going for another panel will be of much help though, as even IF they sent me one without defects there's still these post manufacturing failures popping up.

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post #1648 of 5910 Old 04-19-2014, 01:12 PM
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The sample size for the flat version is too small to make any conclusions. It might have just been luck or insufficient testing. Hopefully we'll get more owners of the flat LG posting their dead-pixel experience.

On a related note, of all the TV displays I've checked over the years for dead-pixels, I've never seen a perfect one. This includes ST30 Plasma, D7000 Plasma, Sharp Elite LCD, JVC LCOS Projector. All had 2-3 dead pixels that were not visible under normal viewing conditions. I would not stress about it unless you can see them from your seat. The alternative will likely be lots of exchanges hoping to win the panel lottery.
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post #1649 of 5910 Old 04-19-2014, 01:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

Coopson: a black screen is just that: BLACK.

so is my CRT tv!

lots of talk here with no sign of any pics ?
you can afford an OLED tv but you cant afford an decent camera?
why?
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post #1650 of 5910 Old 04-19-2014, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post


so is my CRT tv!

lots of talk here with no sign of any pics ?
you can afford an OLED tv but you cant afford an decent camera?
why?

 

Why the attitude? It's not just in that post I've noticed it.

 

What do you want a photo of?

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