Forget 4K-All I want is 1080P with no glare - Page 8 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 250 Old 07-15-2014, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crbaldwin View Post
Do you know if the X850B is similar?
Sorry, I have looked at various UHD TVs but i didn't check their reflectivity on them since i don't plan on getting a UHD TV. And it would have been difficult to tell how reflective they are since they're always playing extremely bright and colorful 4K demos so it's hard to see the reflections on bright content (like sports for instance). The true test of a screens reflectivity is on dark content like a dark movie where the screen suddenly becomes a black mirror.

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post #212 of 250 Old 07-15-2014, 07:28 PM
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Are there any 50"+ matte LCD's out there still being manufactured? I'm unclear if there are none at all, or just no high end ones. I would truly be happier with a cheap poor quality matte LCD than a $5k glossy OLED in my bright living room. I bought a cheapo matte 39" just a year ago from Best Buy, but I'm looking for a bigger size.
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post #213 of 250 Old 07-16-2014, 08:20 AM
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It depends how matte you want the panel. If you want matte like you could get years ago, I don't think there are any. If you are okay with something that is more smooth with some haze on it instead of pure gloss there are some choices. There are also a few companies that make matte films you can put on a glossy TV.
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post #214 of 250 Old 07-16-2014, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
It depends how matte you want the panel. If you want matte like you could get years ago, I don't think there are any. If you are okay with something that is more smooth with some haze on it instead of pure gloss there are some choices. There are also a few companies that make matte films you can put on a glossy TV.
What are some choices that are more smooth with some haze? I remain unimpressed with "low glare" panels like the reduced-layer recent Apple computer panels, if that's what you mean. Thanks for the help!
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post #215 of 250 Old 07-16-2014, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Overthinker View Post
What are some choices that are more smooth with some haze?
The best thing to do to determine which screens are more matte (or matte enough for you) is to go to some stores and personally identify the ones that don't reflect the store's overhead lights like the semi-matte or glossy models do. There are a number of LCD TVs that have a traditional matte screen like the LCDs from 5-10 years ago.

On page 1 or 2 of this thread i posted my experience with an aftermarket matte film from Glarestopper.com that made my small glossy LCD TV look like a traditional matte screen LCD. Maybe you can just buy a super cheap glossy LCD TV then apply the Glarestopper film to it.

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post #216 of 250 Old 07-16-2014, 01:51 PM
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I have a 70 inch Sharp Aquos. It looks great!

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post #217 of 250 Old 07-16-2014, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Hi Randy, A simple question for a guy like you: What is your take on 4K right now between some Sony and Samsung flat panel models (forget it about curved)?

And, any 4K display with a matte screen? Ty & cheers, R §
Dunno about the matte screen thing (see my comments 6 posts above).

I haven't given the Samsung UHD TVs more than a quick glance (and that stupid curved crap is an instantaneous turn-off) so i don't know how it compares with the Sony.

When a UHD TV is displaying 4K demo content in the stores i find myself marveling at the quality and clarity of the content - but taking the TV's ability for granted since of course it's going to display 4K content spectacularly so i'm not really impressed with the UHD TVs nearly as much as i am with the detail in content itself.

I've been more interested in how regular 1080i (and 720p and 1080p) content looks on a UHD TV since that's the highest resolutions i have available to me in my home. I have only seen a few segments of Blu-Ray movies and the Best Buy HD loop on the Sony and LG UHD TVs but i do see some benefit to the screens higher resolution even at 10 feet away compared to the same HD content on the various 1080p LCD TVs next to them. The HD image is smoother and has less jaggies and less stairstepping, but otherwise they just look like really good LCD TVs. Since i have zero 4K content or sources available to me i don't see the value in paying the higher price of a UHD TV for only a slight improvement with HD content.

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post #218 of 250 Old 08-19-2014, 04:32 PM
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I think that sharp 650 are supposed to still be matte, tough i don't see them in retail.

I wanted to buy tv instead of projector i have so i can have light in the room while watching, but i found that you can't do that with tv these days. That was huge surprise for me!

Some mentioned anti reflective glass in this thread, some models were better in the stores i visited, tough every was very reflective when turned off.

So is there some proven TV model to buy if reflections bother me, or still nothing?

Last edited by evlo; 08-19-2014 at 04:37 PM.
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post #219 of 250 Old 08-20-2014, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Maltby View Post
Is that so much to ask for?

I am looking to upgrade my Panny LCD which is 5 years old, 32 inch 720P and matte non reflective screen.

Everything I have seen has glare!

Why isn't non-glare considered a feature?

Most of the time the tv isn't even on. So most of the time I would have a big black mirror in my living room. I don't want a big black mirror in my living room. My tv sits between my two stereo speakers, when I am just listening to music, I don't want to look at a reflection of myself just listening to music.

And when the tv is on, I don't want to see the wall behind me on the screen.

Solutions? So far here is what I have come up with-

Don't get a new tv
Don't get a big tv...just go a little bigger like 40 inch, it will be a mirror, just not a really big mirror
Don't put it in the living room...put the big mirror in another room where it won't be so obnoxious

Still, I would rather get a 1080P led lcd a little bigger with a little better picture with a non reflective screen.
I completely agree!

One of the features that I must have for any TV purchase I make is a matte screen (on both TV and computer screens). I refuse to buy glossy screens.
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post #220 of 250 Old 08-20-2014, 09:05 AM
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I completely agree!

One of the features that I must have for any TV purchase I make is a matte screen (on both TV and computer screens). I refuse to buy glossy screens.
I gave in and bought a glossy screen (Sony 79X900B). The 70X850B is matte (or semi-matte), but I went for the additional 9".

I'm hoping that 5 years from now there with be an 85" matte high-end TV for 5k or less.
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post #221 of 250 Old 08-20-2014, 09:09 AM
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So i found Sharp 650 in shop (and some other sharp TVs). Generally in Czech rep. these are considered most matte available TVs and are probably tiny bit more matte then some other low end TVs, but still it is like 60 inch black mirror, only with slightly blurred image.
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post #222 of 250 Old 08-22-2014, 06:30 AM
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So i did this comparison between lcd tv screen considered as mate these days and relatively new laptop with mate lcd screen.


Ok, so the black levels on the tv are quite blueish and whitish.

So ok, the reality is that there is no matte screen on the market, nothing to do about it, no reason to get angry or frustrated, this is how things are.
But i finally got it.
I'm being to selfish, definitely there is some object that gets tv screen as black, even in this scenario - with direct light against screen, from its distance and viewing angles. So i guess this is what manufactures mean by social functions!
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post #223 of 250 Old 10-09-2014, 07:13 AM
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Little update:

I contacted major manufacturers and to my surprise i did get usable info and it turns out large matte displays are actually still available

responses so far
iiyama - ending in AG = matte and all non touch should be (ie. LH5580S-B1, LE5564S-B1, LH6564S-B)
NEC - 700cd models are matte
Panasonic - nothing
Sony - unable to answer
Philips - unable to answer
LG - nothing
samsung - so far no reply
sharp - nothing

Largest LG that SHOULD be mate is LG 47WS50BS, i asked them about 46" and larger (so little less then 50" just in case), i'm not sure about it as LG wrote me that they don't sell anything with matte screen. Maybe this can be useful information for some else "researching" this.

LE5564S-B1 seems like great choice so far and for about $1600 it is only about half more expensive then brand name 55" TV
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Last edited by evlo; 10-09-2014 at 07:53 AM.
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post #224 of 250 Old 10-09-2014, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evlo View Post
Little update:

I contacted major manufacturers and to my surprise i did get usable info and it turns out large matte displays are actually still available

responses so far
iiyama - ending in AG = matte and all non touch should be (ie. LH5580S-B1, LE5564S-B1, LH6564S-B)
NEC - 700cd models are matte
Panasonic - nothing
Sony - unable to answer
Philips - unable to answer
LG - nothing
samsung - so far no reply
sharp - nothing

Largest LG that SHOULD be mate is LG 47WS50BS, i asked them about 46" and larger (so little less then 50" just in case), i'm not sure about it as LG wrote me that they don't sell anything with matte screen. Maybe this can be useful information for some else "researching" this.

LE5564S-B1 seems like great choice so far and for about $1600 it is only about half more expensive then brand name 55" TV
I think Sharp may finally bring over a lesser version on the MothEye tech from Japan next year. It is called N-Black Panel in the marketing literature. Slightly less effective than MothEye but less prone to dirt build up and being wiped away. Hopefully, they will show it at CES 2015.
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post #225 of 250 Old 10-09-2014, 09:14 AM
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To the OP,

Have you ever considered front projection? You'd never have to worry about glare and it's a much more immersive theater experience.

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post #226 of 250 Old 10-09-2014, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Troy LaMont View Post
To the OP,

Have you ever considered front projection? You'd never have to worry about glare and it's a much more immersive theater experience.
The degree to which his ambient light would cause uncomfortable glare is the same degree that same light would washout a projection, no? The black levels of any projection are only as good as how dark it is in the room.

Using Artificial Life algorithms, I created a bunch of creatures and let them evolve on my system. Over the years they gained intelligence, a society, and quite a few interesting abilities. However, using the rules from their world, they concluded that I did not exist. So I created a special creature meant to spread the Word about Me with amazing magical abilities that only He had. Went well, until they decided to nail the poor Guy to a tree.
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post #227 of 250 Old 10-09-2014, 11:19 AM
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Supposedly some high end screen should not cause that, like black diamond, but obviously these have high end prices too.

Last edited by evlo; 10-09-2014 at 11:25 AM.
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post #228 of 250 Old 10-09-2014, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
The degree to which his ambient light would cause uncomfortable glare is the same degree that same light would washout a projection, no? The black levels of any projection are only as good as how dark it is in the room.
Even entry level PJs these days are very, very bright and casual viewing with ambient light shouldn't be a problem. Given the right screen material as evlo pointed out above, black levels would be acceptable during the times when ambient light was present, but when the PJ was not in use, you can't go wrong with any PJ screen because there would be absolutely zero glare.

If the room was setup properly and the right combination of PJ and screen is chosen then the critical viewing should be very immersive and IMO a much better experience than a flat panel.

Just a thought.

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post #229 of 250 Old 10-09-2014, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Troy LaMont View Post
Even entry level PJs these days are very, very bright and casual viewing with ambient light shouldn't be a problem. Given the right screen material as evlo pointed out above, black levels would be acceptable during the times when ambient light was present, but when the PJ was not in use, you can't go wrong with any PJ screen because there would be absolutely zero glare.

If the room was setup properly and the right combination of PJ and screen is chosen then the critical viewing should be very immersive and IMO a much better experience than a flat panel.

Just a thought.
.......And it's a good thought for many folks. But it doesn't matter how bright the projector is: The black level is handled by omitting light from the projection. This means that ambient light will strike it those regions and wash them out.

I know that there are expensive screens that can mitigate this somewhat, but it's still the case that in a bright room you will have washed out black levels.

Using Artificial Life algorithms, I created a bunch of creatures and let them evolve on my system. Over the years they gained intelligence, a society, and quite a few interesting abilities. However, using the rules from their world, they concluded that I did not exist. So I created a special creature meant to spread the Word about Me with amazing magical abilities that only He had. Went well, until they decided to nail the poor Guy to a tree.
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post #230 of 250 Old 10-09-2014, 12:22 PM
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I know all about black levels, I have a "batcave" PJ setup myself for critical viewing and a 4K LED for everything else.

You're preaching to the choir. The OP hasn't mentioned black levels that I've seen, just the fact that glare is annoying, front projection solves that problem completely. Are there trade-offs? Of course, but such is life in the HT world.

Not trying to pick nits with you, just offering up alternative solutions.

Ciao

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post #231 of 250 Old 10-09-2014, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Troy LaMont View Post
I know all about black levels, I have a "batcave" PJ setup myself for critical viewing and a 4K LED for everything else.

You're preaching to the choir. The OP hasn't mentioned black levels that I've seen, just the fact that glare is annoying, front projection solves that problem completely. Are there trade-offs? Of course, but such is life in the HT world.

Not trying to pick nits with you, just offering up alternative solutions.

Ciao
No, no...no offense taken (nor intended). He didn't mention black levels specifically, but did mention his living room. Those tend to be non-bat-caves. That's all I'm saying.

I have a friend who actually did have a projector set up as his main TV in a livingroom. It was a nightmare because he could never get it dark enough.

Using Artificial Life algorithms, I created a bunch of creatures and let them evolve on my system. Over the years they gained intelligence, a society, and quite a few interesting abilities. However, using the rules from their world, they concluded that I did not exist. So I created a special creature meant to spread the Word about Me with amazing magical abilities that only He had. Went well, until they decided to nail the poor Guy to a tree.

Last edited by tgm1024; 10-10-2014 at 05:52 AM.
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post #232 of 250 Old 10-09-2014, 11:28 PM
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4K laptops are here. And for only $1,700 MSRP (CDN).
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post #233 of 250 Old 10-15-2014, 01:22 AM
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To help reduce or eliminate glare we've been watching some TV when the sun starts going down yet before it gets totally dark. Roughly between about 5:00pm & 7:00pm. I can keep all the inside lights off yet some subdued sunlight comes in through the skylights & window shades. We try to watch programs with a lot of dark material during that time. The TV gets no light bulb reflections yet there is enough indirect ambient light illuminating the room so that we're not sitting in dark cave environment. I can get up & grab some snacks & still see what I'm doing. It would be nice to simulate that nice even low light condition using some indirect lighting.
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post #234 of 250 Old 10-15-2014, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crbaldwin
Do you know if the X850B is similar?
--
I own an 850A and for a short while the 850B. They both have what is sometimes called a glossy matte display. It's significantly less glossy than the 900 series, which I found to be insanely unwatchable glossy. The 850 line is much better as far as reflections, but not perfect either.

My curved OLED reflects like a mofo, so I just installed blackout curtains over the windows. It's rare that I watch TV during the day, but when I do the curtains come down.
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post #235 of 250 Old 11-18-2014, 09:35 AM
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So, like a man obsessed he does too much interweb research on the topic. We recently purchased a 51" Samsung F5300 series plasma, but returned it after a week...the reflections (even when placed so as not to directly reflect our back patio french doors) were ridiculously distracting. Our current plasma has a “matte” screen and as everyone knows everything now has a full glossy, semi glossy or “glossy but with an anti-reflective coating or filter” screen. Indeed, it is the Panasonic 77U series from 2007 which offered a one year only matte screen (before they went with variations of "glossy") - it was also an UPCHARGE item over the otherwise identical 75U series that. year. Here is sits in our current environment...also showing pics of the various walls opposite and to the side of it (sorry for the over-exposed camera phone pics):







Our room is NOT what I would call bright. Our windows are north/south facing and we have shade trees, etc. In addition, two of our walls are dark, etc.

Anyway, this website got me looking at our current TVs and displays more closely :

http://www.photodon.com/c/LCD-Protective-Films.html

On that page you will see they offer a number of different films for LCDs with varying levels of optical clarity and glare, reflection reduction.

My work laptop and my external monitor are definitely what I would describe as full-on matte displays. Any light source is fully diffused and it is virtually impossible to tell what you are looking at. I even walked around the room holding up my work laptop (screen off) to various light source to observe the diffusion. We’ll call this “best case scenario” for attenuating both reflections and general glare.

My TV, however, is definitely NOT a “full matte” display.

Here are a few pics of my TV up close and my (ridiculously dirt) laptop along with descriptions:



TV, but from an angle to show the rear patio French door. The glossy bezel clearly shows the windows and you see it diffuse as it gets onto the screen itself. The glossy bezel is also a very accurate representation of what my wife's new laptop looks like across the whole screen, an iPad looks like, and what that Plasma screen we returned looked like. As an aside, we don’t actually watch the TV from this angle in the room normally unless guests are over.




From this angle, no direct reflections of a window, lamp, etc. You can see muted versions of the couch, a section of the white wall (vertical white strip in left half of pic) and even me on the far left taking the pic. Note my checkered shirt showing up well in the glossy frame.




This is me holding up my work laptop against the TV to see what a full matte screen really looks like when reflecting my patio doors. As you can see, I keep it very dirty to diffuse….um, never mind. You can clearly see a.) the full gloss reflection in the bezel, b.) the diffused reflection on the TV screen itself, and c.) a dirty matte laptop screen with, well, basically nothing but a slightly brighter hotspot in the top half. Man...why does my hand look so weird?




Anyway, here are some big takeaways for me:

1. Full matte (like my laptop) is just that…MATTE – there is no comparison to anything else when it comes to glare, reflections, etc.
2. I may not need FULL Matte on my TV – I originally assumed my TV was a little more matte than it really is. We have been perfectly happy with this semi-matte plasma. We just have zero complaints about the reflections/glare which definitely has something to do with the way it is positioned and its size (note: a larger screen opens the door for just that many more “reflective” items to show up. If you look at that Photodon web page. My TV seems to be something akin to their MXT or MXH films (as opposed to their MXG film).
3. General “reflectivity” bothers me – My wife really hated watching that one-week plasma when she could see the French doors, etc. (which was only from viewing angles we don’t normally view it at). I, on the other hand, found myself bothered by what I’ll call a general “reflectivity” across the screen all the time from any angle…even in a darkened room. I notice this with her laptop and even when I am holding an ipad. I can move the laptop screen or ipad to avoid a specific bright reflection but there just seems to be a general glare/reflectivity/gloss that just bugs me.
4. Summary – Still no answer for me yet. The high dollar Samsung F8500 plasma has an “anti-reflection” filter. That is not the same as a matte screen (which simply do not exist any more), but it MIGHT do the trick for us.

Check this link out: http://www.rtings.com/info/reflectio...nd-glossy/2013
If you scroll down to the Plasmas, you will see the Samsung F5300 which we bought (and returned) with a bad 4.3% reflection rating, and the F8500 (which costs 3X) with a much better 0.9% reflection rating (note: ignore the numbers and let your eyes be the judge). In each TV shown, LEDs and Plasmas, the reflections are more crisp than any matte display and even more crisp than our semi-matte Panasonic. I may try to order one of the anti-glare films and try it out on my wife's laptop. Note, there is a 2014 TVs link as well and the reflections on some of the Samsung LEDs are better this year (still not matte).

Honestly, I would probably go ahead and try the Samsung F8500 out if it were cheaper…can’t quite stomach $1800+ for it even though we watch more than our fair share of TV. Hoping for a big price reduction before they disappear especially since: http://www.cnet.com/news/why-samsung...eat-plasma-tv/

As I said…a man obsessed!
A quick update to my own post from the Summer. With the recent price drops of the Samsung F8500, I pulled the trigger on a 51" and...it's a keeper. My wife and I could both tell immediately, that the reflections were much more subdued and the general reflectivity/glare/shine (whatever you want to call it) is MUCH reduced over the F5300 series. I am able to angle the TV slightly to avoid direct reflections from the rear patio french doors, but that's all I had to do. The regular "white walls", me sitting on the couch, etc. while not invisible are basically a non-issue (and if they were an issue, I would have carted it right back). Is it a full "matte" or semi-matte screen? Hardly, but it is more than good enough for our particular viewing situation and I have NO regrets. Honestly, I have found myself staring at the set wondering just how the dang filter works so well. If you have lamps directly across from it you MIGHT be OK...full daytime windows with the blinds open...not so much.
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post #236 of 250 Old 11-19-2014, 01:03 AM
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That F8500 looks pretty good. And it appears the bezel has a matte finish too. A win-win in today's market.
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post #237 of 250 Old 12-23-2014, 04:03 AM
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I can tell you, that glossy screen is not a reasonable feature, but only a selfish decision from TV manufacturers, to spare money on anti-reflecting surface.


They tried it before with plasma TVs, and they failed with it, because everybody liked the matte LCD much better than the glossy plasma.
The plasma lost the market simply because of it's glossy surface.
But they still didn't learn the lesson, and now they come again, trying their stupidity on LCD.


It is just a dumb illusion, that glossy TV has better picture quality than matte one.
Any professional can tell, that the matte display has better picture quality.
It's just an illusion, like the reverberated voice sounds "better", than the same voice in unechoic camber.
But you don't want long reverberation time for your listening room, do you?
Then why would you buy a glossy display?


It is stupid, but lot of people (the first-time users) buy this "shiny is better" ****, so manufacturers could successfully flood the market with that glossy ****.


But there is a reason that all professional monitors still remained matte.
It proves clearly, that shiny monitor is a crap.


Low-cost "absolute matte" monitors prove day by day, that it is possible to produce ABSLOUTE MATTE monitors and TVs at low price.


So, somebody should stop the manufacturers producing that glossy ****.
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post #238 of 250 Old 12-23-2014, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumata View Post
I can tell you, that glossy screen is not a reasonable feature, but only a selfish decision from TV manufacturers, to spare money on anti-reflecting surface.


They tried it before with plasma TVs, and they failed with it, because everybody liked the matte LCD much better than the glossy plasma.
The plasma lost the market simply because of it's glossy surface.
But they still didn't learn the lesson, and now they come again, trying their stupidity on LCD.


It is just a dumb illusion, that glossy TV has better picture quality than matte one.
Any professional can tell, that the matte display has better picture quality.
It's just an illusion, like the reverberated voice sounds "better", than the same voice in unechoic camber.
But you don't want long reverberation time for your listening room, do you?
Then why would you buy a glossy display?


It is stupid, but lot of people (the first-time users) buy this "shiny is better" ****, so manufacturers could successfully flood the market with that glossy ****.


But there is a reason that all professional monitors still remained matte.
It proves clearly, that shiny monitor is a crap.


Low-cost "absolute matte" monitors prove day by day, that it is possible to produce ABSLOUTE MATTE monitors and TVs at low price.


So, somebody should stop the manufacturers producing that glossy ****.
Unfortunately, gloss is the fashion now. People think it looks "classy". That, and (plastic) chrome accents LOL

This is probably due to the rise of smartphones, which all have glass/glossy surfaces.

This is especially bad for the curved OLEDs since the gloss finish highlights every imperfection in the curve, making it look dimpled. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like there's any plan to change this:
Quote:
This year’s LG panels still have a gloss finish which the company said is preferred by consumers. The South Korean giant had previously made a matt-finished LCD panel which didn’t prove popular, so there’s no plan to make non-reflective screens using something like Sharp’s moth-eye filter technology.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/lg-us...1410053928.htm

One of the reasons I'm waiting for a flat OLED, I will get an anti-reflective film. It might be difficult to apply that to a curved model.
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post #239 of 250 Old 04-21-2015, 02:47 PM
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Dell E5515H, does not support CEC, IIyama LE5564S is the only one with CEC support, but harder to get - especially since there are various sub types of this one, and you need to get one that ends with AG ie. LE5564S-B1AG - good luck with that

Last edited by evlo; 04-21-2015 at 02:54 PM.
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post #240 of 250 Old 04-23-2015, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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To the OP,

Have you ever considered front projection? You'd never have to worry about glare and it's a much more immersive theater experience.
Oh yeah, definitely. But I just didn't feel like I had a light tight enough space for one. It always gets me when the plasma crowd talks about their dark viewing rooms, I'm like 'get a projector already!'

As it is I have tired of waiting and have been frustrated by the lack of push on this issue from the experts, both here and on other sites. So I bought a 4K set with glare!

To compensate for the glare I just chose a tv that is:

-From Costco. If I can't live with it, I can easily return it.

-Not big. I picked a 50 inch screen. If I am forced to buy a mirror for my living room than it is not going to be huge.

-Not expensive. $700 at Costco. That's all my money you get, glare.

-While more reflective than my old 32 inch Panny, it's not the @#$!% mirror a Samsung is.

The films of De Sica, of Welles, of Michael Powell and Emeric Pressburger made little money and endure as spiritual delights.
--David Mamet
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