Is a 4k tv worth waiting for? - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 51 Old 11-26-2013, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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It's about that time to replace my bedroom tv and I am looking to get a set around 50 inches. I'm itching to pick up a tv around black Friday, but I keep hearing about all of these 4k tvs that will be hitting the market next year. It seems like this will be the norm sooner than later, and I would like to hold onto this set for at least 5 years .

In your opinion, is it worth waiting until next year to purchase a 4k tv?
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post #2 of 51 Old 11-26-2013, 06:25 PM
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It's a bedroom TV, there is no need for 4K in the bedroom. It only becomes beneficial at 60" and up anyways.

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post #3 of 51 Old 11-26-2013, 06:31 PM
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Only if you plan on watching 4k porns then it will be worth every penny. smile.gif
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post #4 of 51 Old 11-26-2013, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by adaseng View Post

Only if you plan on watching 4k porns then it will be worth every penny. smile.gif

True. biggrin.gif

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post #5 of 51 Old 11-26-2013, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by adaseng View Post

Only if you plan on watching 4k porns then it will be worth every penny. smile.gif

LOL, that might be scary... too much resolution :-P

4k would definitely be overkill in the bedroom I think, how much watching is there truly going on? We have a crappy 32" 720p set for the bedroom. Downstairs just got Samsung's 4k set, will be all set in the years to come when there's actually some content, cart is before the horse on this one but that's ok with me. Well as long as Samsung keeps their promise that the One Connect box will have HDMI 2.0 when the spec is finalized and that it won't cost an arm and a leg.

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post #6 of 51 Old 11-26-2013, 08:14 PM
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^^^^ HDMI V2.0 specs were released in September. However, it will probably be at least another year or two before it's widely disseminated in consumer devices.
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post #7 of 51 Old 11-26-2013, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by enzo631 View Post

It's about that time to replace my bedroom tv and I am looking to get a set around 50 inches. I'm itching to pick up a tv around black Friday, but I keep hearing about all of these 4k tvs that will be hitting the market next year. It seems like this will be the norm sooner than later, and I would like to hold onto this set for at least 5 years .

In your opinion, is it worth waiting until next year to purchase a 4k tv?


IMHO it's a mistake to hold out. The next big thing is not UHD/"4k" but instead OLED. UHD will be like 3D (i.e., the consumer saying I don't want/need that). In retrospect, would you have held out for 3D? Increasing the resolution at this point is just silly. Improving the color sample size to 4:4:4 would do a lot more than just a res bump. The last couple great TVs are the Sony KD-34XBR960 (CRT) and the Pioneer Kuro (Plasma). Your best move right now is to buy the Panasonic VT series plasma while you still can. It will stand along-side the Kuro as being the reference TV for the next 10 years or so before the OLED tech matures and claims the spot. Even buying a Panasonic ST series would give you basically a Tier-1 TV for the next 5-10 years. You can get one of these for a grand or less right now.

 

UHD is nothing special. Compare an LCD UHD to a 1080p OLED and I bet OLED will win every time.

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post #8 of 51 Old 11-26-2013, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by pqwk50 View Post


IMHO it's a mistake to hold out. The next big thing is not UHD/"4k" but instead OLED. UHD will be like 3D (i.e., the consumer saying I don't want/need that). In retrospect, would you have held out for 3D? Increasing the resolution at this point is just silly. Improving the color sample size to 4:4:4 would do a lot more than just a res bump. The last couple great TVs are the Sony KD-34XBR960 (CRT) and the Pioneer Kuro (Plasma). Your best move right now is to buy the Panasonic VT series plasma while you still can. It will stand along-side the Kuro as being the reference TV for the next 10 years or so before the OLED tech matures and claims the spot. Even buying a Panasonic ST series would give you basically a Tier-1 TV for the next 5-10 years. You can get one of these for a grand or less right now.

UHD is nothing special. Compare an LCD UHD to a 1080p OLED and I bet OLED will win every time.

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post #9 of 51 Old 11-26-2013, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

^^^^ HDMI V2.0 specs were released in September. However, it will probably be at least another year or two before it's widely disseminated in consumer devices.

I have a feeling 2014 Bluray players will have HDMI 2.0 in them. Panasonic has the first TV with it already so I don't see it being much longer for TV's and receivers to implement them.

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post #10 of 51 Old 11-26-2013, 11:15 PM
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I have a feeling 2014 Bluray players will have HDMI 2.0 in them. Panasonic has the first TV with it already so I don't see it being much longer for TV's and receivers to implement them.

So they are going to put a HDMI 2.0 connector on a 1080P Blu Ray player.................why ?

Is it going to be an upconverting Blu Ray player ?
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post #11 of 51 Old 11-27-2013, 12:29 AM
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For the main room, then move that one to the bedroom..............if it's too big and/or fancy for the bedroom then just grab a small lcd on BF

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post #12 of 51 Old 11-27-2013, 08:54 AM
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^^^^ HDMI V2.0 specs were released in September. However, it will probably be at least another year or two before it's widely disseminated in consumer devices.

I'd be really surprised if the 2014, 4k sets didn't have 2.0.
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post #13 of 51 Old 11-27-2013, 12:52 PM
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@jbug and Lationheat - I certainly hope both of you are correct but my guess is that if HDMI 2.0 does make it to consumer devices in 2014, it will only be on high end models. However, being as the specs were just released September 4, 2013, I don't know if that's enough time to get them into the 2014 product line. The HDMI 2.0 Compliance Test Specification (CTS) is expected to be released before the end of 2013.

HDMI 2.0 Specs:


4K@50/60, (2160p), which is 4 times the clarity of 1080p/60 video resolution

Up to 32 audio channels for a multi-dimensional immersive audio experience

Up to 1536kHz audio sample frequency for the highest audio fidelity

Simultaneous delivery of dual video streams to multiple users on the same screen

Simultaneous delivery of multi-stream audio to multiple users (up to 4)

Support for the wide angle theatrical 21:9 video aspect ratio

Dynamic synchronization of video and audio streams

CEC extensions provides expanded command and control of consumer electronics devices through a single control point

HDMI 2.0 does not define new cables or new connectors. Current High Speed cables (Category 2 cables) are capable of carrying the increased bandwidth.
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post #14 of 51 Old 11-27-2013, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jetmeck View Post

So they are going to put a HDMI 2.0 connector on a 1080P Blu Ray player.................why ?

Is it going to be an upconverting Blu Ray player ?

I guess the same reason they have 4K up convert in bluray players, it's useless, if you have a 4K tv it already up converts to its original resolution. But your right for 1080p , I don't really see a benefit in HDMI 2.0 but as companies always try and lure customers, I can see its a good grab to sell players for people that aren't knowledgable. It mainly benefits 4K panels.

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post #15 of 51 Old 11-28-2013, 04:06 PM
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IMHO it's a mistake to hold out. The next big thing is not UHD/"4k" but instead OLED. UHD will be like 3D (i.e., the consumer saying I don't want/need that). In retrospect, would you have held out for 3D? Increasing the resolution at this point is just silly. Improving the color sample size to 4:4:4 would do a lot more than just a res bump. The last couple great TVs are the Sony KD-34XBR960 (CRT) and the Pioneer Kuro (Plasma). Your best move right now is to buy the Panasonic VT series plasma while you still can. It will stand along-side the Kuro as being the reference TV for the next 10 years or so before the OLED tech matures and claims the spot. Even buying a Panasonic ST series would give you basically a Tier-1 TV for the next 5-10 years. You can get one of these for a grand or less right now.

UHD is nothing special. Compare an LCD UHD to a 1080p OLED and I bet OLED will win every time.

I don't believe UHD is like 3D, I read an interested article which compared what people said about the bump from 720p to 1080p. Now what would you think if your blu rays were in 720p? It is early to adopt 4k/UHD since the cart is in front of the horse, but it's the next progression to bump the resolution. OLED will eventually be the win-all but there are other issues with OLED like the panel quality, sure it's vibrant and wide gamut but there are drawbacks. Once they get OLED down, they'll be able to bump it to UHD/4K. In the meantime, LCD UHD is the middle ground.

I was sold once I saw some great 4k/UHD content, I'd rather get the set now and be ready for when content trickles out as opposed to jumping on OLED when this tech will drastically change and stuck at 1080p for the time being. I'm probably a minority but I was told by the Mrs that my next TV would be the last one we buy for at least the foreseeable future. I decided on a UHD set, at least this way I'm set for what is out currently and have an upgrade path to getting the resolution bump and HDMI 2.0 via One Connect box upgrade. I'm sure I won't be displeased with the set.

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post #16 of 51 Old 11-28-2013, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by pqwk50 View Post

UHD is nothing special.

Until you pull up your seat closer to the TV, then its amazing. Some of us are hoping for wide field of view displays that fill our entire vision, with resolution indistinguishable from reality, to come before we die.
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post #17 of 51 Old 11-28-2013, 06:53 PM
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^^^^ Holo-deck.
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post #18 of 51 Old 11-28-2013, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tory40 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by pqwk50 View Post

UHD is nothing special.

Until you pull up your seat closer to the TV, then its amazing. Some of us are hoping for wide field of view displays that fill our entire vision, with resolution indistinguishable from reality, to come before we die.

It really is a good thing for pixel peepers lol.

I will be happy when it becomes normal to have a wall that is a huge display or paneled displays. Multitasking like a pro with ultra res kicking in when we want to have a single feed take over the wall to watch a movie or something.

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post #19 of 51 Old 11-28-2013, 11:07 PM
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It's all about content for me, while we might see discs emerge in the next 2 years, I'm unsure how fast we'll see content come out for them.

On top of that, look at live TV now.. channels are still 720p or 1080i, correct me if I'm wrong but there is no cable or satellite 1080p broadcast. On top of that the 720p/1080i they're sending out is significantly compressed, god knows when we'll get a decent bitrate 1080p broadcast, seems years behind.. apparently due to the bandwidth requirements of 1080p.

Games are another boat as well, the PS4 and Xbox One aren't going to be doing any competent 4K gaming, despite them sort of leaving the door open. They'll be 1080p (at best), and we likely won't see another console for at least 5-6 years. PC gaming is another boat, if you're willing to spend a ton on graphics cards then you can get 4K today, no clue how well games will take advantage of it, however.

I just don't really see the point, I don't know how 720p/1080i/1080p content looks on a 4K TV but I don't imagine it's going to be too pretty, I might have the wrong impression but I keep thinking of how bad SD content can look on an HDTV.

If you bought a 1080p TV today by the time you were ready to upgrade in 4-6 years 4K will finally be getting it's legs and be a much better and more affordable option.
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post #20 of 51 Old 11-29-2013, 09:19 AM
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I think one of the satellite companies does 1080p VOD.

PS4 has said 4K will be supported for photo viewing and movies (I am guessing they will open their closed wall on content available on their media drive that currently only plays on Sony TV). But this will most likely be at least latter part of 2014 at the earliest.

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post #21 of 51 Old 11-29-2013, 09:44 AM
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If you bought a 1080p TV today by the time you were ready to upgrade in 4-6 years 4K will finally be getting it's legs and be a much better and more affordable option.

I would have a tendency to agree with that as well. 720p/1080i looks great OTA (considerably less compression, at least in our area) and nothing is broadcast in 1080p (except via some streaming services) so I would think that a new 1080p (24p capable panel) would be the way to go until the dust settles on 4k, UHD, or what ever and the prices come down. Content may be more readily available as well.
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post #22 of 51 Old 11-29-2013, 09:46 AM
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I think one of the satellite companies does 1080p VOD.

PS4 has said 4K will be supported for photo viewing and movies (I am guessing they will open their closed wall on content available on their media drive that currently only plays on Sony TV). But this will most likely be at least latter part of 2014 at the earliest.

I know DirecTV does 1080p on demand but it's actually done through the internet, not satellite. Now sure how Dish is but I'd assume the same.
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post #23 of 51 Old 11-30-2013, 11:39 AM
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I don't believe UHD is like 3D, I read an interested article which compared what people said about the bump from 720p to 1080p. Now what would you think if your blu rays were in 720p?

My Blu-rays are in 720p. My TV maxes out at 1080i.

 

I have no complaints with 720p. If I had a larger TV like 60" or something, 1080p would probably be better. But from what I've read, 1080p fully accommodates 60" size. So got no use for UHD. I would have strongly preferred full 4096 horizontal resolution instead of 3840 so no cropping is needed from the master. Also a bump in the color sample would be a better more noticeable improvement. So I boo-hoo UHD. The industry should have waited for true 4K resolution along with a color sample bump. That would be AMAZING.

 

Everything is going to go UHD cause the "better" TVs are all going to have it. People will buy the "better" TVs for reasons independent of resolution. Eventually UHD will be the standrard. But it's not going to bring people into the store to buy a UHD TV like OLED is going to bring people in.

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post #24 of 51 Old 11-30-2013, 12:07 PM
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My Blu-rays are in 720p. My TV maxes out at 1080i.

I have no complaints with 720p. If I had a larger TV like 60" or something, 1080p would probably be better. But from what I've read, 1080p fully accommodates 60" size. So got no use for UHD. I would have strongly preferred full 4096 horizontal resolution instead of 3840 so no cropping is needed from the master. Also a bump in the color sample would be a better more noticeable improvement. So I boo-hoo UHD. The industry should have waited for true 4K resolution along with a color sample bump. That would be AMAZING.

Everything is going to go UHD cause the "better" TVs are all going to have it. People will buy the "better" TVs for reasons independent of resolution. Eventually UHD will be the standrard. But it's not going to bring people into the store to buy a UHD TV like OLED is going to bring people in.

Your blu rays are in 720p? UHD does look spectacular but to each their own. For me UHD is worth the price of admission since I want a set that will keep up in the next 6 or so years. We also sit close, I am able to see a single dead pixel from the couch.

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post #25 of 51 Old 11-30-2013, 01:08 PM
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In your opinion, is it worth waiting until next year to purchase a 4k tv?
4K TVs don't support 10-bit video or the Rec. 2020 (UHDTV) color space and they are basically just HDTVs with higher resolution. A true 4K UHDTV would definitely be worth it but we might not see one released until 2016.
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post #26 of 51 Old 11-30-2013, 01:21 PM
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4K TVs don't support 10-bit video or the Rec. 2020 (UHDTV) color space and they are basically just HDTVs with higher resolution. A true 4K UHDTV would definitely be worth it but we might not see one released until 2016.


This is so true. 1080p with 12-bit 4:4:4 color sample would blow away UHD. Raising the resolution is a pathetic move by the industry. But Richard Paul is so correct. 4K with 12-bit (or even 10-bit) and raised color sample would be amazing.

 

What's offered right now as "UHD" is the new "3D scam." Your money would be so better spent buying a 1080p Panasonic Plasma while you still can. A Plasma Pannie will serve you great for maybe even 10 years.

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post #27 of 51 Old 11-30-2013, 01:55 PM
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This is so true. 1080p with 12-bit 4:4:4 color sample would blow away UHD. Raising the resolution is a pathetic move by the industry. But Richard Paul is so correct. 4K with 12-bit (or even 10-bit) and raised color sample would be amazing.
I think the most noticeable improvements in order would be: larger color space, higher bit depth, higher frame rate, no chroma subsampling, and higher resolution. I think there can be a benefit from increasing resolution, which is why 4K computer monitors have been used for medical applications, but for most people increasing the resolution provides the smallest benefit.
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post #28 of 51 Old 12-01-2013, 11:52 AM
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I think the most noticeable improvements in order would be: larger color space, higher bit depth, higher frame rate, no chroma subsampling, and higher resolution. I think there can be a benefit from increasing resolution, which is why 4K computer monitors have been used for medical applications, but for most people increasing the resolution provides the smallest benefit.
So you are saying that 1080p at 4:4:4 is better than 3840x2160 at 4:2:0? Surely the latter would give the best picture quality (ignoring judder/blur) on the same size TV?
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Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

So you are saying that 1080p at 4:4:4 is better than 3840x2160 at 4:2:0?
For most people based on current TV sizes I think it would be better to provide RGB at 1080p than 4:2:0 YCbCr at 4K. It would give better video quality with a lower cost and a lower bit rate. I think there is almost no chance it will happen since the video industry loves chroma subsampling in the same way that they used to love interlacing but RGB is the best way to transmit video. In the days of analog 4:2:0 YCbCr made a lot of sense but today it is an analog relic similar to limited video range and 59.94 fps.

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Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Surely the latter would give the best picture quality (ignoring judder/blur) on the same size TV?
For a larger viewing angle increasing the resolution would be better but for most people increasing the resolution is the smallest benefit that could have been chosen. CE companies are simply going with the easiest improvement which makes sense for them but offers a poor deal for consumers.
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post #30 of 51 Old 12-01-2013, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

For most people based on current TV sizes I think it would be better to provide RGB at 1080p than 4:2:0 YCbCr at 4K. It would give better video quality with a lower cost and a lower bit rate. I think there is almost no chance it will happen since the video industry loves chroma subsampling in the same way that they used to love interlacing but RGB is the best way to transmit video. In the days of analog 4:2:0 YCbCr made a lot of sense but today it is an analog relic similar to limited video range and 59.94 fps.
For a larger viewing angle increasing the resolution would be better but for most people increasing the resolution is the smallest benefit that could have been chosen. CE companies are simply going with the easiest improvement which makes sense for them but offers a poor deal for consumers.
But 4:2:0 3840x2160 should give just as much chroma resolution as 4:4:4 1080p, but 4:2:0 3840x2160 would have 4x as many luma samples, and the human eye is more sensitive to luma changes than chroma ones - assuming there is sufficient bitrate to encode it with high enough quality.
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