Panasonic's plans post Plasma? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 87 Old 01-26-2014, 03:22 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sequoia, CA
Posts: 30,052
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 369
Flat-panel manufacturing requires minimal labor.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 87 Old 01-27-2014, 12:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
irkuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: cyberspace
Posts: 3,472
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Flat-panel manufacturing requires minimal labor.

Apparently except those 110" and 120" panels biggrin.gif. Anyway, problem is huge investment costs for manufacturing plants.

irkuck
irkuck is offline  
post #63 of 87 Old 01-27-2014, 03:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Artwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hoover, Alabama
Posts: 4,817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 194
They wouldn't tell you so--it looks like we are doomed to LCD forever! Who can take it?
Artwood is offline  
post #64 of 87 Old 01-27-2014, 07:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,811
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

They wouldn't tell you so--it looks like we are doomed to LCD forever! Who can take it?

 

I can handle your tirades.  I can handle anything.


Well Vinnie97, one of the kindest and most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before I get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
tgm1024 is offline  
post #65 of 87 Old 01-31-2014, 01:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Artwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hoover, Alabama
Posts: 4,817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 194
You can't handle admitting that LCD is worse than plasma or OLED. You can't handle that truth!
Artwood is offline  
post #66 of 87 Old 01-31-2014, 01:20 PM
Senior Member
 
ptt660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Artwood, you ALMOST got the famous NIcholson quote right..................."You can't handle the truth!" smile.gif
ptt660 is offline  
post #67 of 87 Old 01-31-2014, 05:06 PM
Advanced Member
 
David_B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: delete me
Posts: 983
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Panasonic's post plasma plans.
Toasters
Shavers
Personal Grooming devices.

All things they where better at before they did TV.
(ducks)

buytme
David_B is online now  
post #68 of 87 Old 01-31-2014, 06:47 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sequoia, CA
Posts: 30,052
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 369
My Panasonic shaver is so so.. It's probably less good at shaving than the Braun, but the cleaning carts are 1/3 as expensive and the power supply "rings" at 1/3 the volume...

I'd be happy if they came up with a better version.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is offline  
post #69 of 87 Old 01-31-2014, 08:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,811
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B View Post

Panasonic's post plasma plans.
Toasters
Shavers
Personal Grooming devices.

All things they where better at before they did TV.
(ducks)

 

Panasonic microwaves are awesome.  We invited some friends over and sat around and watched it for a couple hours.  Cool times.  Waiting for the 60" model....

rogo likes this.

Well Vinnie97, one of the kindest and most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before I get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
tgm1024 is offline  
post #70 of 87 Old 02-01-2014, 09:32 AM
Member
 
Greg Mueller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Port Gamble, WA
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Panasonic Shows Its Latest 4K and OLED TVs at CES 2014

Panasonic may have stopped plasma TV production at the end of 2013, and now instead the company is investing into 4K and OLED technologies and displaying the fruits of its labour at the 2014 Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. These are some of the highlights of Panasonic’s display.

4K Ultra HD TV

The new Life+ Screen AX800 series, a new 4K Ultra LED HD TV (for the US market) offering overwhelmingly high picture quality along with next generation smart functions, is currently on display. The new advanced personalization functions of the AX800 series, such as “my Stream”, allowing the user to seamlessly link and display a variety of content according to their tastes, and “Info Bar”, a self-starting information display, are being demonstrated at the show. The new AX800 series will come in 58-inch and 65-inch screen sizes and feature HDMI 2.0 support, so they be fed 4K 60p content through a single HDMI cable. Along with the 3840 x 2160 resolution and THX certification, the new sets off Panasonic’s Studio Master Color technology, said to reproduce colours with richness and accuracy, with a high colour space LED backlight. Local dimming helps to paint deep black levels, while a dedicated 4K Fine Remaster Engine upscales all incoming signals to 4K.


Story HERE
Greg Mueller is offline  
post #71 of 87 Old 02-01-2014, 10:40 AM
"Don't PM Me Bro"
 
RandyWalters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: El Segundo, Calif
Posts: 17,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Panasonic microwaves are awesome.  We invited some friends over and sat around and watched it for a couple hours.  Cool times.  Waiting for the 60" model....

They also make pretty good vacuum cleaners (OEM maker for Sears Kenmore) - i recently upgraded mine and it works fantastic, but it has a big problem with maroon . . . .







On the TV front, here's a good rundown of Panasonic's upcoming 2014 A-Series 1080p LED LCD Line-Up:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/panasonic-introduces-1080p-led-lcd-life-screen-line-up-238921191.html

Randy
TC-P55ST60, TC-P50GT50, TC-P46G10, TH-42PZ700U, TH-42PX50U, HP LC2600N, TiVo Series3, TWC Cisco 8742HDC DVR, Onkyo TX-SR605, URC R40 Remote.
Pic of My A/V setup - http://cdn.avsforum.com/f/f1/900x900..._Img_4867.jpeg
Gallery - http://www.avsforum.com/g/a/2082686/randywalter...
RandyWalters is offline  
post #72 of 87 Old 02-01-2014, 12:08 PM
Member
 
Greg Mueller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Port Gamble, WA
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just ran across this



NEW!


58" Class Life+ Screen AX800 Series 4K Ultra HD TV (57.5" Diag.)


Model: TC-58AX800U


PREORDER HERE
Greg Mueller is offline  
post #73 of 87 Old 02-01-2014, 01:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,811
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Mueller View Post

58" Class Life+ Screen AX800 Series 4K Ultra HD TV (57.5" Diag.)
Model: TC-58AX800U
PREORDER HERE

 

Sub-60"....they better be whopp'n worth it for $4500 in 2014.  Are these guys paying attention to the Vizio M.O. at all?


Well Vinnie97, one of the kindest and most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before I get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
tgm1024 is offline  
post #74 of 87 Old 02-01-2014, 01:42 PM
Member
 
Greg Mueller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Port Gamble, WA
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Sub-60"....they better be whopp'n worth it for $4500 in 2014.  Are these guys paying attention to the Vizio M.O. at all?


When I bought my 42" Panasonic "ED" the list price was $8k
I "stole it" off a site for $5K

This is the Panasonic suggested retail
Greg Mueller is offline  
post #75 of 87 Old 02-01-2014, 06:38 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sequoia, CA
Posts: 30,052
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 369
It's Panasonic's "detached from reality" pricing.

We should start a pool on guessing the date they pull out of the U.S. TV market. It's coming soon.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is offline  
post #76 of 87 Old 02-01-2014, 08:37 PM
"Don't PM Me Bro"
 
RandyWalters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: El Segundo, Calif
Posts: 17,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

It's Panasonic's "detached from reality" pricing.

We should start a pool on guessing the date they pull out of the U.S. TV market. It's coming soon.

My guess is they'll make their last TVs in the first week of December, 2014. And end up never offering any OLED TVs.

Randy
TC-P55ST60, TC-P50GT50, TC-P46G10, TH-42PZ700U, TH-42PX50U, HP LC2600N, TiVo Series3, TWC Cisco 8742HDC DVR, Onkyo TX-SR605, URC R40 Remote.
Pic of My A/V setup - http://cdn.avsforum.com/f/f1/900x900..._Img_4867.jpeg
Gallery - http://www.avsforum.com/g/a/2082686/randywalter...
RandyWalters is offline  
post #77 of 87 Old 02-02-2014, 01:13 AM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 999
I can't say as I'll feel compelled to grab their final LCD panel as I did with their last plasma. They won't miss me or my tiny market segment anyway.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #78 of 87 Old 02-02-2014, 02:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Chronoptimist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I can't say as I'll feel compelled to grab their final LCD panel as I did with their last plasma. They won't miss me or my tiny market segment anyway.
I think it's the only television which supports 4K at 60Hz in RGB via DisplayPort right now. The only other displays which do this are monitors which are 32" or smaller. (no use to me)
All the HDMI 2.0 displays being released this year seem to only support 4K60 with 4:2:0 subsampling. (totally unsuitable for PC/Game use)

That makes them very interesting to me, but they're larger than I would want for a monitor (around 46" is ideal for a 4K monitor) and I won't buy an edge-lit display.
I don't think they're using IPS panels either, and while I prefer a non-IPS panel for television use, it is a better choice for a monitor.
Chronoptimist is offline  
post #79 of 87 Old 02-02-2014, 08:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,811
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

I think it's the only television which supports 4K at 60Hz in RGB via DisplayPort right now. The only other displays which do this are monitors which are 32" or smaller. (no use to me)
All the HDMI 2.0 displays being released this year seem to only support 4K60 with 4:2:0 subsampling. (totally unsuitable for PC/Game use)

That makes them very interesting to me, but they're larger than I would want for a monitor (around 46" is ideal for a 4K monitor) and I won't buy an edge-lit display.
I don't think they're using IPS panels either, and while I prefer a non-IPS panel for television use, it is a better choice for a monitor.

 

The IPS claim to fame is the off-angle viewing.  With a PC monitor, you're always front and center.  Are you talking about the drop in contrast?


Well Vinnie97, one of the kindest and most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before I get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
tgm1024 is offline  
post #80 of 87 Old 02-02-2014, 11:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mailiang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Springsteen Country
Posts: 6,521
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

It's Panasonic's "detached from reality" pricing.

We should start a pool on guessing the date they pull out of the U.S. TV market. It's coming soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

My guess is they'll make their last TVs in the first week of December, 2014. And end up never offering any OLED TVs.


I'll believe it when I see it.


Ian wink.gif

The best way to succeed in life is to act on the advice you give to others

mailiang is offline  
post #81 of 87 Old 02-02-2014, 11:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
greenland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,096
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 112
Am I correct in stating that Panasonic does not even manufacture its own large LCD panels, and if that is correct, then it will be very easy for them to get out of the business entirely? So far they have never been a big player in the LCD TV market, and it is hard for me to see a way for them to be able to take away market share from the likes of Samsung, LG, Sharp, and Sony, so I do think it is far more likely that Panasonic will get out of the TV production business entirely, rather than that they will be able to capture a meaningful share of the market.

However, I am looking forward to their release of a curved version of the 60 inch microwave, which they claim will allow all us hungry people to view our rotating frozen pizzas from the sweet spot!
greenland is offline  
post #82 of 87 Old 02-02-2014, 02:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Chronoptimist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

The IPS claim to fame is the off-angle viewing.  With a PC monitor, you're always front and center.  Are you talking about the drop in contrast?
The corners show viewing angle problems when you are at monitor distances to a 58/65" display.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Am I correct in stating that Panasonic does not even manufacture its own large LCD panels
Their large IPS panels are sourced from LG, and I think their 4K displays are using Samsung panels. (looked like it anyway)
Their small IPS LCDs may still be IPS-α panels.
Chronoptimist is offline  
post #83 of 87 Old 02-02-2014, 02:20 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sequoia, CA
Posts: 30,052
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Am I correct in stating that Panasonic does not even manufacture its own large LCD panels, and if that is correct, then it will be very easy for them to get out of the business entirely?

Correct. I'm not sure they make any of their TV panels.
Quote:
So far they have never been a big player in the LCD TV market, and it is hard for me to see a way for them to be able to take away market share from the likes of Samsung, LG, Sharp, and Sony, so I do think it is far more likely that Panasonic will get out of the TV production business entirely, rather than that they will be able to capture a meaningful share of the market.

They can't capture share. Let's be clear on how the strategies that might work to take share.

  1. Price: Used by VIzio. This requires a low-margin structure, which runs against everything Panasonic does. And Vizio has share, is cutting prices already and would be better equipped to lower them further. This strategy is not available to Panasonic.
  2. Owned LCD production: Used by Samsung/LG/Sharp. By cutting out the margin of the panel maker, you can compete better and vertically integrate. This allows for better economies of scale, faster innovation, etc. Some will ask, "But Sony owns no production and does fine." Well, no they don't. First, they are most assuredly not "gaining share". Their share was 9% just a couple of years ago. It was forecast to be about 6.5% in the last numbers I found for 2013. Second, they have lost money in TVs in 13 of the past 14 quarters.
  3. Post-LCD technology: If/when OLED -- or something else -- comes along and actually has a production edge, you can gain share with it. It's delusional to believe Panasonic is within half a decade of having such a thing. And it's not actually clear they are even working on one.

Altogether, this paints a picture where Panasonic can essentially only continue to lose share and money. They can, perhaps, briefly arrest these trends, but they cannot reverse them.
slacker711, mr. wally and tgm1024 like this.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is offline  
post #84 of 87 Old 02-02-2014, 02:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,811
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

They can't capture share. Let's be clear on how the strategies that might work to take share.
 
  1. Price: Used by VIzio. This requires a low-margin structure, which runs against everything Panasonic does. And Vizio has share, is cutting prices already and would be better equipped to lower them further. This strategy is not available to Panasonic.
  2. Owned LCD production: Used by Samsung/LG/Sharp. By cutting out the margin of the panel maker, you can compete better and vertically integrate. This allows for better economies of scale, faster innovation, etc. Some will ask, "But Sony owns no production and does fine." Well, no they don't. First, they are most assuredly not "gaining share". Their share was 9% just a couple of years ago. It was forecast to be about 6.5% in the last numbers I found for 2013. Second, they have lost money in TVs in 13 of the past 14 quarters.
  3. Post-LCD technology: If/when OLED -- or something else -- comes along and actually has a production edge, you can gain share with it. It's delusional to believe Panasonic is within half a decade of having such a thing. And it's not actually clear they are even working on one.

Altogether, this paints a picture where Panasonic can essentially only continue to lose share and money. They can, perhaps, briefly arrest these trends, but they cannot reverse them.

 

Awesome #1-3 sum-up.  My only complaint is that I couldn't up-thumb it twice.

 

If I could be so bold as to add speculation as #4.  Actually fits in at #2.5 as a guess. It's been mentioned more than once that panasonic's president was very vocal about his slash and burn strategy for profitless divisions.  It is not as though Panasonic is now headed by a president willing to stay in "at all costs".  Perhaps this adds to the likelihood of being the next "once major" player to exit.

rogo likes this.

Well Vinnie97, one of the kindest and most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before I get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
tgm1024 is offline  
post #85 of 87 Old 02-02-2014, 07:45 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sequoia, CA
Posts: 30,052
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 369
Yep, that's a good #4/#2.5 point.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is offline  
post #86 of 87 Old 02-04-2014, 04:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mr. wally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: land of the pumas
Posts: 3,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Correct. I'm not sure they make any of their TV panels.
They can't capture share. Let's be clear on how the strategies that might work to take share.

  1. Price: Used by VIzio. This requires a low-margin structure, which runs against everything Panasonic does. And Vizio has share, is cutting prices already and would be better equipped to lower them further. This strategy is not available to Panasonic.
  2. Owned LCD production: Used by Samsung/LG/Sharp. By cutting out the margin of the panel maker, you can compete better and vertically integrate. This allows for better economies of scale, faster innovation, etc. Some will ask, "But Sony owns no production and does fine." Well, no they don't. First, they are most assuredly not "gaining share". Their share was 9% just a couple of years ago. It was forecast to be about 6.5% in the last numbers I found for 2013. Second, they have lost money in TVs in 13 of the past 14 quarters.
  3. Post-LCD technology: If/when OLED -- or something else -- comes along and actually has a production edge, you can gain share with it. It's delusional to believe Panasonic is within half a decade of having such a thing. And it's not actually clear they are even working on one.

Altogether, this paints a picture where Panasonic can essentially only continue to lose share and money. They can, perhaps, briefly arrest these trends, but they cannot reverse them.



I would add anecdotally that sony also seems to carry just about the highest retail prices of any of the major brands. I have read that whatever revenues sony is generating from the lcd business is largely coming from their high end models. Suffice it to say whatever proprietary processing sony adds to these panels does not justify their retail premiums.

Sony seems to be able to retail at higher prices due to some consumer nostalgia based on sonys prior technological superiority in the crt market.

if sony can't make money currently with their lcds even with this residual consumer " margin" sony has, it only further evidences that this is not a viable model for Panasonic to duplicate.

neflixis our nemesis
mr. wally is offline  
post #87 of 87 Old 04-08-2014, 01:40 AM
Member
 
cybernut2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Panasonic CS on 2 ocassions has verified that this TV, TC-58AX800U, does not support 3D at all.
cybernut2000 is offline  
Reply Flat Panels General and OLED Technology

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off