LG 55EA9800 OLED TV: A Brief Critical Look - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-21-2014, 06:19 PM
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I think the argument that Apple would lose money because Sony and Panasonic do is facile. A better argument is that Apple might never get enough sales to justify the effort required, especially if it sees "dumb screen plus small smart box" as the future.
I don't think Apple is the sort of company that would need to be assured of making a profit before risking a TV venture. It has piles of cash -- what's it going to do with it? Give it to Carl Icahn?

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Old 03-22-2014, 05:15 AM
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I don't think Apple is the sort of company that would need to be assured of making a profit before risking a TV venture. It has piles of cash -- what's it going to do with it? Give it to Carl Icahn?

No Greg, of course it wouldn't need to be guaranteed. I was just pointing out profits seem almost certain...

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 03-22-2014, 07:15 AM
 
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with black level somewhere between 0.0001 ft/L and immeasurable on his meter.

you can go lower than 0.0001 if you want to.
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Old 03-22-2014, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I think the argument that Apple would lose money because Sony and Panasonic do is facile. A better argument is that Apple might never get enough sales to justify the effort required, especially if it sees "dumb screen plus small smart box" as the future. And since it has to sell the small smart box, that could undermine a push to sell the pricey screens. Of course, it hasn't stopped the company from selling pricey monitors for 30 years.

 

My argument is even simpler—it won't be easy to compete against LG and Samsung. Apple stores are not ubiquitous worldwide, so Apple's market would be limited by that simple fact. In the US, now there's Vizio to contend with. That's a tougher playing field than the categories Apple already competes in. But it's certainly not impossible, and were Apple to succeed, I'm sure it would do so profitably.

 

I figure Apple's "TV" will likely emerge as a pricey dumb screen, in reality a giant 4K monitor that works with the Mac Pro. In that context, going for the highest possible PQ would make sense and be appreciated by Apple's core customers. Nothing would stop such a screen from hooking up to a AV system. In fact, I'd expect such a product sooner rather than later.


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Old 03-22-2014, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I think the argument that Apple would lose money because Sony and Panasonic do is facile. A better argument is that Apple might never get enough sales to justify the effort required, especially if it sees "dumb screen plus small smart box" as the future. And since it has to sell the small smart box, that could undermine a push to sell the pricey screens. Of course, it hasn't stopped the company from selling pricey monitors for 30 years.

 

My argument is even simpler—it won't be easy to compete against LG and Samsung. Apple stores are not ubiquitous worldwide, so Apple's market would be limited by that simple fact. In the US, now there's Vizio to contend with. That's a tougher playing field than the categories Apple already competes in.

 

Hmmmm.....that sounds a little like the "cart before the horse" to me.  Hear me out: Apple currently has a way of selling everything else it sells so very successfully.  If that mechanism (apple stores, online, what-have-you), is employed, then it doesn't matter a bit that LG and Samsung are in places that Apple isn't.


Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
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Old 03-22-2014, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
 

 

Hmmmm.....that sounds a little like the "cart before the horse" to me.  Hear me out: Apple currently has a way of selling everything else it sells so very successfully.  If that mechanism (apple stores, online, what-have-you), is employed, then it doesn't matter a bit that LG and Samsung are in places that Apple isn't.

 

Phones and tablets rule the roost at Apple, but there's no doubt that you can buy those products at Target and Wal-Mart. A lot of phones are sold through carriers, Samsung succeeded quite well at competing at that level. Apple stores are only part of the equation.

 

I'm simply speculating. Anyhow, were Apple to do something TV related, it does seem like LG would be the only choice to build the panel, because only OLED would be good enough to set such a product apart, quality-wise.

I dream of a flat OLED Apple monitor, 65" 4K/UHD with true 120Hz 4:4:4 support. Who knows, maybe it will happen. Then again, what I really dream of is the LG knock-off of that monitor, at 1/2 the price.


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Old 03-22-2014, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
 

 

Hmmmm.....that sounds a little like the "cart before the horse" to me.  Hear me out: Apple currently has a way of selling everything else it sells so very successfully.  If that mechanism (apple stores, online, what-have-you), is employed, then it doesn't matter a bit that LG and Samsung are in places that Apple isn't.

 

Phones and tablets rule the roost at Apple, but there's no doubt that you can buy those products at Target and Wal-Mart. A lot of phones are sold through carriers, Samsung succeeded quite well at competing at that level. Apple stores are only part of the equation.

 

Yep.  But that all those venues Apple currently has for selling would be brought to bear when selling their TVs too.  Best Buy, and all the other store fronts in the world were part of my "what-have-you".

 

Quote:
Anyhow, were Apple to do something TV related, it does seem like LG would be the only choice to build the panel, because only OLED would be good enough to set such a product apart, quality-wise.

 

I completely agree; if they do go the TV route.  I used to believe that Apple would enter the TV world in an attempt to redefine it at some fundamental level, but in the last year I've seen them struggle with the press labeling their moves as things "Jobs just wouldn't have done."  My guess is that they'll create something that can be used as a TV but has some other label on it (some huge "home connection" or some such).

 

 

 

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Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:51 AM
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When do you think we'll be able to buy a 75 inch or so OLED 4K for $14K?
I personally am hoping the 77" will be 15K delivered, by dealers........
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:55 AM
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I personally am hoping the 77" will be 15K delivered, by dealers........

Close enough for me. Wish I get buy it now. My Kuro is nice but at 60" not exactly a movie experience. So disappointed the TV market has turned into a race to the bottom on price with much less regard for picture quality.
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Old 03-22-2014, 11:17 AM
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I personally am hoping the 77" will be 15K delivered, by dealers........

Is that just your guestimate or do you have any numbers from LG yet? I'm hoping for closer to 12k smile.gif
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Old 03-22-2014, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I think the argument that Apple would lose money because Sony and Panasonic do is facile. A better argument is that Apple might never get enough sales to justify the effort required, especially if it sees "dumb screen plus small smart box" as the future. And since it has to sell the small smart box, that could undermine a push to sell the pricey screens. Of course, it hasn't stopped the company from selling pricey monitors for 30 years.

My argument is even simpler—it won't be easy to compete against LG and Samsung. Apple stores are not ubiquitous worldwide, so Apple's market would be limited by that simple fact. In the US, now there's Vizio to contend with. That's a tougher playing field than the categories Apple already competes in. But it's certainly not impossible, and were Apple to succeed, I'm sure it would do so profitably.

I figure Apple's "TV" will likely emerge as a pricey dumb screen, in reality a giant 4K monitor that works with the Mac Pro. In that context, going for the highest possible PQ would make sense and be appreciated by Apple's core customers. Nothing would stop such a screen from hooking up to a AV system. In fact, I'd expect such a product sooner rather than later.

Not that I would call it 'easy' but Apple is already in competition against Samsung in the phone and tablet markets - aside from the higher pricepoints, why would TVs necessarily be very different (focusing on the high-end only and staying out of the brawl for mass market...)???
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Old 03-22-2014, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHat View Post

When do you think we'll be able to buy a 75 inch or so OLED 4K for $14K?
I personally am hoping the 77" will be 15K delivered, by dealers........

55" at $4600
77" at $15000

could that mean that there is hope for the 65" to be priced at $9000??? (delivered, by dealers)
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Old 03-22-2014, 01:13 PM
 
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LG's larger OLED TV prices were announced on Blu-ray.com. I can't find it at this moment as I'm rushing out, but I think it was in the New Display Technologies section.
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Old 03-22-2014, 03:06 PM
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There is a LG OLED used on amazon for $2500 probably worth looking into
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Old 03-22-2014, 04:41 PM
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When I reviewed the LG OLED, I was absolutely blown away; not just by the contrast measurements but by the utter realism of the image. As Chris said, we used a Klein K-10a for the black measurement, and it was at or below the threshold for the meter to detect on a black screen. On a 5x5 checkerboard ANSI pattern, we got a tiny black level reading, but it was most likely just light leakage caused by the curved screen not letting the meter get a good seal around the black measurement box, which was surrounded very close by with white boxes. In other words, I believe even it's ANSI black is hovering right around the threshold of the Klein, which is the most sensitive meter available for black readings.
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Old 03-23-2014, 01:44 AM
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conceptually, .and making some assumptions, there's a lots symbiotic potential that could be realized from an lg apple joint venture with these new oled models

Lg gets a partner that could actually sell millions of these and profitably;
Lg has an investor to help offset r&d and the new 8g fab costs;

Apple gets into the display business at the very high end with splashy new tech
Apple has the opportunity to create the new home neural platform

Lg and Apple get to take market share and profits away from Samsung;
Apple attacks samsung turf instead of having to defend samsung's ongoing encroachment into their own

it would be very cool and fun if this happened, but does mr. cook have the heuvos for something risky as this, and are my speculations nothing more than economic nonsense

neflixis our nemesis
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Old 03-23-2014, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

conceptually, .and making some assumptions, there's a lots symbiotic potential that could be realized from an lg apple joint venture with these new oled models

Lg gets a partner that could actually sell millions of these and profitably;
Lg has an investor to help offset r&d and the new 8g fab costs;

Apple gets into the display business at the very high end with splashy new tech
Apple has the opportunity to create the new home neural platform

Lg and Apple get to take market share and profits away from Samsung;
Apple attacks samsung turf instead of having to defend samsung's ongoing encroachment into their own

it would be very cool and fun if this happened, but does mr. cook have the heuvos for something risky as this, and are my speculations nothing more than economic nonsense

 

Makes sense to me.


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Old 03-23-2014, 06:24 AM
 
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When I reviewed the LG OLED, I was absolutely blown away; not just by the contrast measurements but by the utter realism of the image. .

contrast ratio and realism usually goes hand in hand wink.gif
you get the same effect on a tweaked Kuro with raised ABL as you get with the LG OLED tv.
the tv looks like a window to reality.

0 blacks with insane brightness builds the image and colors.
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Old 03-23-2014, 08:41 AM
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Would love to se the 2014 lg 4k oled prices tongue.gif
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:46 AM
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My argument is even simpler—it won't be easy to compete against LG and Samsung. Apple stores are not ubiquitous worldwide, so Apple's market would be limited by that simple fact. In the US, now there's Vizio to contend with. That's a tougher playing field than the categories Apple already competes in. But it's certainly not impossible, and were Apple to succeed, I'm sure it would do so profitably.

You're either not reading what I'm saying, or I'm doing a terrible job of making the point. I'm talking about Apple selling 1-2% of the world's TV... About 5-8% of U.S. TVs...
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I figure Apple's "TV" will likely emerge as a pricey dumb screen, in reality a giant 4K monitor that works with the Mac Pro. In that context, going for the highest possible PQ would make sense and be appreciated by Apple's core customers. Nothing would stop such a screen from hooking up to a AV system. In fact, I'd expect such a product sooner rather than later.

Sounds like a product that almost can't fail.
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Hmmmm.....that sounds a little like the "cart before the horse" to me.  Hear me out: Apple currently has a way of selling everything else it sells so very successfully.  If that mechanism (apple stores, online, what-have-you), is employed, then it doesn't matter a bit that LG and Samsung are in places that Apple isn't.

Exactly. In fact, Apple would probably make the TV a store/online exclusive, to keep the margins high.
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Phones and tablets rule the roost at Apple, but there's no doubt that you can buy those products at Target and Wal-Mart. A lot of phones are sold through carriers, Samsung succeeded quite well at competing at that level. Apple stores are only part of the equation.

I'm simply speculating. Anyhow, were Apple to do something TV related, it does seem like LG would be the only choice to build the panel, because only OLED would be good enough to set such a product apart, quality-wise.

If Apple wants OLED, they have to go LG. If they want full array LCD, they have 5-6 choices.
Quote:
I dream of a flat OLED Apple monitor, 65" 4K/UHD with true 120Hz 4:4:4 support. Who knows, maybe it will happen. Then again, what I really dream of is the LG knock-off of that monitor, at 1/2 the price.

So I don't see Apple building a $6000 TV. I'm looking at this at the timing when $2000-3500 is doable.
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Not that I would call it 'easy' but Apple is already in competition against Samsung in the phone and tablet markets - aside from the higher pricepoints, why would TVs necessarily be very different (focusing on the high-end only and staying out of the brawl for mass market...)???

Right, there is no point in "brawling." This hypothetical entry is about basically "Apple-izing" the TV market and carving out a "Mac-like" niche at the top end. It looks to me like a $10-20 billion possible market for Apple. Big enough to care, small enough to honestly be irrelevant in a world where Apple replaces most of the exiting players. I mean, sure it will piss off Samsung. But how is that different from the current competitive dynamic?
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conceptually, .and making some assumptions, there's a lots symbiotic potential that could be realized from an lg apple joint venture with these new oled models

Lg gets a partner that could actually sell millions of these and profitably;
Lg has an investor to help offset r&d and the new 8g fab costs;

Apple gets into the display business at the very high end with splashy new tech
Apple has the opportunity to create the new home neural platform

Lg and Apple get to take market share and profits away from Samsung;
Apple attacks samsung turf instead of having to defend samsung's ongoing encroachment into their own

it would be very cool and fun if this happened, but does mr. cook have the heuvos for something risky as this, and are my speculations nothing more than economic nonsense

No, this sounds really good.

The reasons we won't see it are this:

1) TVs are slow to replace and Apple chooses not to go with slow-to-replace item
2) Apple mis-estimates the potential market and sees the size as too small
3) Apple decides it doesn't add value so it passes (even though I don't agree with them here)
4) Apple decides distribution is too hard because TVs are big physically
5) Apple decides margins are too small when pushed through 3rd parties and decides it can't move enough just use 1st party sales

The reasons we could have been outlined above by others, esp. wally, (and myself).

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:30 AM
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Over here hdtvtest compare the LG OLED and Panasonic ZT:

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/zt-201403233655.htm

They conclude the ZT is better, but it seems to be on the basis that it is second or third best at a lot of things rather than being the best at anything.

And after years of having gone on about black levels being the single most important determinant of picture quality, they almost gloss over the superiority of OLED in this area.

Which is not to say the ZT isn't fantastic.
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:48 AM
 
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I think they were being pretty objective and just outlining the pros and cons (with more of an emphasis on the latter given the nature of the article)...like me, they are not bothered by the oft-repeated complaints here about phosphor decay and PWM flickering. The only PQ complaints they have about the LG are the motion rez and higherinput lag...the curve can cause a visual distortion problem if not seated correctly, so we can call that three. Having seen them both, the pros of the OLED definitely outweigh the cons (in 24 fps anyhow).
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Old 03-24-2014, 07:45 AM
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I think they were being pretty objective and just outlining the pros and cons (with more of an emphasis on the latter given the nature of the article)...like me, they are not bothered by the oft-repeated complaints here about phosphor decay and PWM flickering. The only PQ complaints they have about the LG are the motion rez and higherinput lag...the curve can cause a visual distortion problem if not seated correctly, so we can call that three. Having seen them both, the pros of the OLED definitely outweigh the cons (in 24 fps anyhow).

 

......for the money they're asking, blur is an absolute deal breaker for me.  Far far more important to me than the (IMO) silly victory of going from super-duper to super-duper-uber blacks.


Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:50 AM
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If it's a lot of blur, I would agree. But is it a lot?
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:24 PM
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If it's a lot of blur, I would agree. But is it a lot?

Motion blur is largely dependent on content, but it sounds like live broadcast hockey would not look very good on this OLED...

Does anyone know what the native refresh rate of the 55EA9800 is?

Is the pixel on for 100% of the time (16.7ms @60Hz refresh rate)?

If the panel supports a 120Hz refresh rate, is motion interpolation available or not?
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:28 PM
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From Chad B.

http://www.avsforum.com/products/lg-55ea9800-oled-hdtv/reviews/4544
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If you like very bright images, the EA9800 can deliver, with no apparent sacrifice in accuracy or stability. Hockey looked great, with good purity and brightness of the ice and fine motion. No dirty screen effect or ABL action was visible in that or any other programming.
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Old 03-24-2014, 04:02 PM
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Whoa so many guesses, really Jobs is gone so don't expect an Apple OLED any time soon :(

 

Now LG has a 77" OLED ready for sale the question is it will be north of $29,900 so any takers! I need to replace my 15 year old car so unlikely for me!

 

http://www.oled-info.com/lg-77ec9800

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Old 03-24-2014, 04:08 PM
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from a very reliable source close to me I have heard the msrp on the LG 77 inch OLED will be priced at $25K
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Old 03-24-2014, 04:11 PM
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A close friend of mine was also in New Jersey at the Samsung Lab and got his hands on the Samsung 4K HU9000 and told me the set was extremely impressive and had blacks on par with the Panasonic VT60 and for him to be impressed with a LED LCD is very shocking to me so it must be a good TV
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Old 03-24-2014, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigcoupe2003 View Post

A close friend of mine was also in New Jersey at the Samsung Lab and got his hands on the Samsung 4K HU9000 and told me the set was extremely impressive and had blacks on par with the Panasonic VT60 and for him to be impressed with a LED LCD is very shocking to me so it must be a good TV

For an edge-lit LED/LCD (even with 'local' dimming)??? That had to be some carefully chosen content they were watching...
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