UCLA researchers develop inexpensive, high-mobility semiconductors for LCD and OLED screens - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 05-01-2014, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/device-could-boost-image-quality-for-phones-computers-and-tvs


"Led by Yang Yang, the Carol and Lawrence E. Tannas Jr. Professor of Engineering at the UCLA Henry Samueli School of Engineering and Applied Science, the team created a high-performance device that can be produced without requiring a clean room or the expensive equipment now commonly in use.

"Our semiconductor process is faster, less expensive and more reliable than existing processes," said Yang, a professor in the school's materials science and engineering department and a member of the UCLA California NanoSystems Institute. "We strongly believe it can be used as a technology to replace existing processes and scale up production of thin-film transistors."

"Currently, amorphous silicon-based TFTs are the most popular technology in LCDs, but they suffer low mobility. This is why, when watching a baseball game on a large LCD TV, viewers can often see the "trail" of the ball when it's thrown or hit.

The UCLA-developed product, a non-silicon–based amorphous oxide semiconductor TFT, offers mobility that is 10 to 20 times greater than that of an amorphous silicon-based TFT. The device, which is composed of indium gallium zinc oxide and indium tin zinc oxide, has channels that are designed differently than those in other TFTs. "

Sounds very promising and offers the hope that blurring can be eliminated at a reduced production cost, both in LCD and OLED displays..
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post #2 of 13 Old 05-01-2014, 11:00 PM
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There's a lot of gibberish in that release. A lot.

LCD "ghosting" has nothing to do with using a-Si transistors for openers.

They are using IGZO, which they didn't invent at all. So yawn.

They maybe have come up with a new process tech (hard to know) which means maybe this will reduce costs of making TFTs in 5 years or so.

There's a lot of gibberish in there.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #3 of 13 Old 05-02-2014, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Rogo,

Would it be possible for you to inform them about their mistakes? They say that they posted it for peer review, so there must be some way to access that process and post corrections.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adma.201400529/abstract;jsessionid=0026DA485995B2E5697BD75ABE680580.f02t01


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/adma.201400529/asset/supinfo/adma201400529-sup-0001-S1.pdf?v=1&s=ef6e89455a828994a74e6552afe2d52c1c51079a
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post #4 of 13 Old 05-02-2014, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Rogo,

Would it be possible for you to inform them about their mistakes? They say that they posted it for peer review, so there must be some way to access that process and post corrections.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adma.201400529/abstract;jsessionid=0026DA485995B2E5697BD75ABE680580.f02t01


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/adma.201400529/asset/supinfo/adma201400529-sup-0001-S1.pdf?v=1&s=ef6e89455a828994a74e6552afe2d52c1c51079a

'Peers' means other professors and ivory-tower types.

Rogo's got it right - at most, this seems like it might translate into a lower-cost manufacturing process for an IGZO backplane, meaning the result could be lower cost LCDs and OLEDs 5 years from now (best-case, 7-10 more likely).

I noticed the Korean professor on the list and it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn he is being funded by Samsung.
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post #5 of 13 Old 05-02-2014, 10:37 AM
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http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adma.201400529/abstract;jsessionid=0026DA485995B2E5697BD75ABE680580.f02t01

Folks on this list Are working at:
Department of materials science an engineering, University of Caifornia Los Angeles and School of electronic engineering, Yonsei University, Seodaemun-gu, Seoul.

funded by:
National Science Foundation and UCLA Internal Funds
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post #6 of 13 Old 05-02-2014, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

'Peers' means other professors and ivory-tower types.

Rogo's got it right - at most, this seems like it might translate into a lower-cost manufacturing process for an IGZO backplane, meaning the result could be lower cost LCDs and OLEDs 5 years from now (best-case, 7-10 more likely).

I noticed the Korean professor on the list and it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn he is being funded by Samsung.

I knew what Peers meant. I just was urging Rogo to find someway to give his input, and of course we do not know if he was ever an Ivory Tower type or not.biggrin.gif
If it is any kind of a worthwhile breakthrough like they claim it is,which will permit mass production without the need for clean room standards, and at a lower cost, it should not take at least five years to determine that and start to incorporate into mass production facilities. If it takes a least five years, then I doubt if it will ever get implemented.

Just because someone is Korean does not mean that they are being controlled by Samsung.
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post #7 of 13 Old 05-02-2014, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

'Peers' means other professors and ivory-tower types.

Rogo's got it right - at most, this seems like it might translate into a lower-cost manufacturing process for an IGZO backplane, meaning the result could be lower cost LCDs and OLEDs 5 years from now (best-case, 7-10 more likely).

I noticed the Korean professor on the list and it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn he is being funded by Samsung.

I knew what Peers meant. I just was urging Rogo to find someway to give his input, and of course we do not know if he was ever an Ivory Tower type or not.biggrin.gif
If it is any kind of a worthwhile breakthrough like they claim it is,which will permit mass production without the need for clean room standards, and at a lower cost, it should not take at least five years to determine that and start to incorporate into mass production facilities. If it takes a least five years, then I doubt if it will ever get implemented.

Just because someone is Korean does not mean that they are being controlled by Samsung.

Did not mean to imply 'controlled by Samsung' - it appears that Samsung will be missing out on the first coming of OLED, but I would be surprised if they are not betting on and investing in a second coming of OLED who's success is going to be predicated on ultra-low manufacturing technologies such as printable OLEDs. This no-clean-room-IGZO technology, if it proves to be viable, fits that vision perfectly - hence my reference to the Korean-link in this team.

Of course, both LG and Samsung stand to benefit from this for their LCD businesses as well as future OLED businesses, so the link is probably more appropriately tied to Korea, Inc, rather than just Samsung. I was just attempting to make a (bad) joke about Samsung's interest to find a recovery path on OLED...
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post #8 of 13 Old 05-02-2014, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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You may recall that Samsung and LG were swapping lawsuits filings over OLED infringements, until the Korean Government grew worried that they might allow China to steal a march on OLED while their two giants were slowing each other down. They made them put a stop to it, and from what has transpired since, it looks like Samsung was doing it's best to stall LG, because they knew they were not ready to compete with them on bringing OLED to market at this time.

Since Rogo writes tech pieces for Forbes?, and he lives out West, perhaps he could request an interview with the researchers, and then give them his input on where they are mistaken on some of their claims?
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post #9 of 13 Old 05-02-2014, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post


Since Rogo writes tech pieces for Forbes?, and he lives out West, perhaps he could request an interview with the researchers, and then give them his input on where they are mistaken on some of their claims?

I'm not convinced the researchers are wrong as I haven't read the paper. I'm convinced, however, the press release about the research contains a lot of hand waving, unsupportable claims and meaningless nonsense.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #10 of 13 Old 05-02-2014, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I'm not convinced the researchers are wrong as I haven't read the paper. I'm convinced, however, the press release about the research contains a lot of hand waving, unsupportable claims and meaningless nonsense.

Perhaps some of it might be because of English not being the first language for a number of them. It still might be something that you could turn into a article, were you able to obtain an interview with one or more of the researchers.
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post #11 of 13 Old 05-04-2014, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

The UCLA-developed product, a non-silicon–based amorphous oxide semiconductor TFT, offers mobility that is 10 to 20 times greater than that of an amorphous silicon-based TFT. The device, which is composed of indium gallium zinc oxide and indium tin zinc oxide, has channels that are designed differently than those in other TFTs. "

 

I can't quite tell how much is truly verified by them from that article.  Has this been reported on before?


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post #12 of 13 Old 05-04-2014, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I can't quite tell how much is truly verified by them from that article.  Has this been reported on before?

They just recently posted their research findings for peer review, so I doubt if it has been reported on in the past.

Since they are being funded by some very reputable backers, I expect that they are probably making legitimate claims for their RD results.

You have a better grasp of technical details than most of us do. Have you read through their technical paper, posted at this link?

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/adma.201400529/asset/supinfo/adma201400529-sup-0001-S1.pdf?v=1&s=ef6e89455a828994a74e6552afe2d52c1c51079a

One of the obstacles to getting more specific answers is they are not permitting access to all their research documentation to the general public.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adma.201400529/full

They do sell a 24 hour access to it, but since i am not qualified to evaluate the merits of such technical claims, I will have to leave that to some others to look into, or wait for more reporting on the project.
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post #13 of 13 Old 05-04-2014, 09:27 AM
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^^^Hey, thanks for the compliment (!), but having looked through that document I can tell I'm not the one to evaluate it either.  :-/  I'm betting slacker, xrox, or ynotgoal would have some good comments regarding it.


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