LG EC9800 4K OLED Pricing Speculation and Tracking Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 159 Old 07-28-2014, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post
The fab is not going to be fully ramped until sometime in 2015, and if the translations are correct, probably late in the year.

I thought they were going to up to full utilization of the initial 9000 substrates per month before the end of 2014 and the reference to late 2015 were in regards to populating additional production lines to take the total capacity up beyond that level.


Do you have a source referring to them not approaching the initial 9000 substrate/month capacity until late 2015?


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Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post
You are looking too far down the road. I think we'll get some idea about OLED's viability in the 2nd half of this year. It wont be definitive, but it will certainly be far more information than we have now.

Can't argue with you there :-)

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Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post
The concept of OLED's getting the premium within 20% of LCD's is very imprecise. There are lots and lots of LCD models. It is going to happen on a model by model basis and the Sony 950b is the guinea pig. We wont get precise numbers, but if the price is within 20%, I want to see all of the anecdotal data points to be pointing towards the 9700 to be outselling the 950b. If that doesnt happen, LG is going to have a problem.

The Sony 65X950B can be found for $6000 now, so at $7000, the LG 65EC9700 will be priced below 120% of the X950B. Some customers don't want a curve. Other customers don't want a bleeding-edge new technology and prefer to let others be the guinea pigs until it has more of a rack record. If neither the Sony 65X950B nor the LG 65EA9700 sell any meaningful number of TVs late this year, what would that tell us?


Everything I am stating is predicated on a relative tsunami of WOLEDs reaching the market before the end of the year. If that is correct, the Sony 65Sony X950B will be swamped for all but die-hard Sony fans (or those wanting the best 'flat' flatscreen TV on a mature and continuing technology).


I'm more focused on the curved Samsung UN65HU9000 - LG is going to have to take customers from Samsung who are already interested to purchase a curved screen. The UN65HU9000 can be found for ~$3500 today and I predict that means LG will get the price of the 65EA9700 down close to $5000 (meaning a 50% premium to the UN65HU9000) as soon as they have the volume in M2 ramped up to support increased demand.
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post #122 of 159 Old 07-28-2014, 09:45 PM
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Here is similar confirmation link I took from another AVS thread. http://hdguru.com/lgs-ultra-high-def...-price-leaked/
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post #123 of 159 Old 07-28-2014, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 15feetAway View Post
Here is similar confirmation link I took from another AVS thread. http://hdguru.com/lgs-ultra-high-def...-price-leaked/
To the OLED naysayers, note LG is stating lifespan of OLED at 50 - 100 thousand hours.
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post #124 of 159 Old 07-29-2014, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
16K for the 77", is a lot better than 25K. I hope you're right Dave.
Hope so too. With the $7k price on the 65" there should be enough buyers that we can get very good idea what the real world problems are with their 4k OLEDs e.g burn in, IR etc. Things are looking up!
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post #125 of 159 Old 07-29-2014, 06:50 AM
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I'm buying one of these the MOMENT they go on sale. Most Vendors can/will sell under the UPP price, but they have to be discrete about it. Hoping to get it for 6000 or less.

I recently demoed the new Galaxy Tab S 10.5 tablet and I was blown away. That thing has a res of 2560 x 1600 and they have some demo videos I'm guessing down scaled to that res from 4k and it has the best picture I've ever seen! Better then anything I"ve seen on the LG OLED, but I think that's because the extra resolution makes the OLED image come to life even more. I think a 4K OLED image will be a huge improvement over comparable 4K LCD. The picture was startling in it's depth and clarity, to the point were it was tricking my brain into thinking things were real.

I checked out the top 4K LCD's that were running dedicated 4K content and they were not EVEN CLOSE to that Samsung Tab S.

Guys, if you get a chance go to any Best Buy, etc and DEMO the TAB S! Please report back if you have a similar experience.

It's also too bad Samsung doesn't have a comparable 65" OLED coming this year, as I'd love to see the showdown with a 65" LG OLED.
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post #126 of 159 Old 07-29-2014, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post
I'm buying one of these the MOMENT they go on sale. Most Vendors can/will sell under the UPP price, but they have to be discrete about it. Hoping to get it for 6000 or less.

I recently demoed the new Galaxy Tab S 10.5 tablet and I was blown away. That thing has a res of 2560 x 1600 and they have some demo videos I'm guessing down scaled to that res from 4k and it has the best picture I've ever seen! Better then anything I"ve seen on the LG OLED, but I think that's because the extra resolution makes the OLED image come to life even more. I think a 4K OLED image will be a huge improvement over comparable 4K LCD. The picture was startling in it's depth and clarity, to the point were it was tricking my brain into thinking things were real.

I checked out the top 4K LCD's that were running dedicated 4K content and they were not EVEN CLOSE to that Samsung Tab S.

Guys, if you get a chance go to any Best Buy, etc and DEMO the TAB S! Please report back if you have a similar experience.

It's also too bad Samsung doesn't have a comparable 65" OLED coming this year, as I'd love to see the showdown with a 65" LG OLED.
Me too. By the way, the new tab S (10.5 at least) seems to have a variation on their Galaxy Note II's RGB S-stripe sub-pixel layout (STUPID term by the way: If it's a stripe, it's a stripe, an "S-stripe" makes no fundamental sense here...IMO it's actually more of a pentile variation, not a stripe at all.) I have the Note II, and it's just phenomenal.

Here's a review of the Tab S. http://www.anandtech.com/show/8197/s...w-105-84inch/2

Samsung has been experimenting with subpixel orientations for a long time and they have been hitting the ball out of the park. I too would love to see what a TV sized galaxy Tab would look like.
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Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
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post #127 of 159 Old 07-29-2014, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Vegas oled View Post
To the OLED naysayers
I have been saying that in the 55EA9800 thread all year ! That is exactly how " wife's tale's " start !

OLED will last as long as anything else does.........can last a day or 50 years.......
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post #128 of 159 Old 07-31-2014, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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MSRP for the 65EC9700 has just been leaked: http://www.geek.com/news/lgs-65-inch...ulous-1600864/


In addition to the $9000 MSRP, you can already find the 65EC9700 for a pre-release street price of $6250.


I've updated the lead post accordingly.
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post #129 of 159 Old 07-31-2014, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
MSRP for the 65EC9700 has just been leaked: http://www.geek.com/news/lgs-65-inch...ulous-1600864/


In addition to the $9000 MSRP, you can already find the 65EC9700 for a pre-release street price of $6250.


I've updated the lead post accordingly.
Something has to give. 10 extra inches AND 4k UHD for just a $2k premium over the 55 inch ? Bet the bottom for the 55" drops another 500-1k to stay viable and competitive.
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post #130 of 159 Old 07-31-2014, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jman425 View Post
Something has to give. 10 extra inches AND 4k UHD for just a $2k premium over the 55 inch ? Bet the bottom for the 55" drops another 500-1k to stay viable and competitive.
Depends on whether LG wants to sell more of the 55" or 65" WOLEDs.


You can pick up a decent 55" 1080p TV for about $1000 today, so even at $3000, the premium for the 55EC9300 (>3X) is far higher than the 65EC9700 at $6250 (<2X).


I suspect LG may be hitting the gas on the 65" 4K market here in the US and giving that significantly higher priority than the 55" 1080p market going forward from here...
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post #131 of 159 Old 08-01-2014, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
I know I read somewhere that the OLED's are easier to produce being curved. If this is the case, I understand, otherwise we need to go back to flat

We just need a Flat 100" 4K OLED at 1/8" thick from top to bottom, maybe 100 pounds tops It would probably to big for any room in my place, but I could care less I will watch in pure bliss !
Heck yeah I will make payment on it just like people do for cars.
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post #132 of 159 Old 08-01-2014, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Depends on whether LG wants to sell more of the 55" or 65" WOLEDs.

I suspect LG may be hitting the gas on the 65" 4K market here in the US and giving that significantly higher priority than the 55" 1080p market going forward from here...
Why not both ? Hondas sell Accords, Civics, Fits, CRVs, etc. Several vehicles spread along a wide price range to satisfy the whole gamut of requirements and budgets. They can't let sales of the 65" cannibalize on the 55". A smart marketing team will tailor each one to target a specific market.
Think if they release the 55" closer to 3k and slowly drop to 2.5k, will slowly eat it's way through the higher end of the 55" LCD/LED market. Honestly, the people that can drop 6k+ on a TV, no matter how stunning, is rather small. The meat of the action, and the ones that will turn current owners of older HDTVs into OLEDs is probably in the sub $2.5k category. IMHO, that should be where LG should be aiming for.
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post #133 of 159 Old 08-02-2014, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jman425 View Post
Why not both ? Hondas sell Accords, Civics, Fits, CRVs, etc. Several vehicles spread along a wide price range to satisfy the whole gamut of requirements and budgets. They can't let sales of the 65" cannibalize on the 55". A smart marketing team will tailor each one to target a specific market.
Think if they release the 55" closer to 3k and slowly drop to 2.5k, will slowly eat it's way through the higher end of the 55" LCD/LED market. Honestly, the people that can drop 6k+ on a TV, no matter how stunning, is rather small. The meat of the action, and the ones that will turn current owners of older HDTVs into OLEDs is probably in the sub $2.5k category. IMHO, that should be where LG should be aiming for.

I don't know when you last purchased a higher-end 55" LED/LCD TV, but at $2.5K, there is no way LG is going to 'eat it's way through' that market today. High-end 55" LED/LCD are easily found for under $1000 today, and anyone looking to spend as much as $2500-$3000 for a new TV is far more likely to be looking for a larger screen size than a more expensive 55". Just look at the increasing availability of larger screen sizes at your local Costco for confirmation of this.


Also, 4K on a 55" screen just doesn't make much sense, and the high-end market is going to 4K. The high-end market for 65" 4K seems to be settling into a price range of $3000-4000.


If you assume LG is serious about getting the price for their WOLEDs down to less than 1.5X high-end LED/LCD pricing, then they may have a much better chance to get their with 65" 4K pricing in the $4500-6000 range (heck, they are already pretty much their with their pre-release street pricing on the 65EC9700) than they have with 55: 1080p pricing in the $1500-$2000 range (still a long way from pre-release street pricing of the 55EC9300).


In the end, LG needs to sell 4000 55" WOLEDs per day, or 2000 65" WOLEDs per day or some combination of those two in the face of established marketing pricing for competing LED/LCD products. If they have a better chance of doing that through the pricing they can support on their 65" WOLEDs than their 55" WOLEDs, they will focus their efforts in that direction first.
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post #134 of 159 Old 08-02-2014, 06:39 PM
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ok... what is a Woled? white pixel oled? and i am not sure where or how to ask this, but can there be a place or just a thread for us to quickly and easily see the 'QUALITY' order of tvs per brand? sometimes if i go to that manufacturers website, i find it hard to get a clear understanding of what is the best or worst in their line up. I have been watching some tvs on amazon and it says "there is a newer version of this model..... and the model # is COMPLETELY different(LG). I would not want to buy a tv any less than 2nd from the top in the quality chain. thanks guys.
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post #135 of 159 Old 08-02-2014, 11:18 PM
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In the face of changing model numbers each year, the easiest way to get an idea for picture quality by brand would be to first determine if you like LCD or OLED (plasma is essentially dead save the Samsung F8500 and inferior LGs) then organize by price. The most expensive set will have the best picture quality. I find it easiest to use Amazon's site first since all brands are there, then go to the manufacturer's site to see if it is current...then AVS of course.
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post #136 of 159 Old 08-03-2014, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
High-end 55" LED/LCD are easily found for under $1000 today, and anyone looking to spend as much as $2500-$3000 for a new TV is far more likely to be looking for a larger screen size than a more expensive 55".
I do not know of any 55" LCD/LED that is near $1000 that can be called high end in the market today.
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Last edited by Cleveland Plasma; 08-03-2014 at 11:09 AM.
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post #137 of 159 Old 08-03-2014, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I do not know of any 55" LCD/LED that is near $1000 that can be called high end in the market today.

Fair enough - I was referring to 1080p but forgot to include that detail in my statement.


For 4K 55" TVs, price range right now is more like $1500-$2500.


1080p 55" TVs, price range right now is $1000-$1500 (other than OLEDs :-)


With the 55" Vizio M (1080p) going for $1000, spending much more than that on a 55" 1080p LED/LCD is a waste of money (which is what I was referring to).


If LG starts offering the 55EC9300 for a pre-introduction street price of $3000, that would be a good start, but to drive the kind of sales volumes they will need to absorb M2 manufacturing capacity, they will need to get back down to $2000 (33% - 50% premium over 55" 1080p LED/LCDs).
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post #138 of 159 Old 08-03-2014, 08:45 PM
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I would probably never own a Vizio.......

OLED will be in that range, It has not even been out 1 year yet and the price dropped about 60%, name another new TV technology that has fallen as fast, there was none. When Plasma first hit the market it took about 3 years to see these kinda drops. Congrads to LG
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post #139 of 159 Old 08-03-2014, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
I would probably never own a Vizio.......

OLED will be in that range, It has not even been out 1 year yet and the price dropped about 60%, name another new TV technology that has fallen as fast, there was none. When Plasma first hit the market it took about 3 years to see these kinda drops. Congrads to LG
Can't argue with you on that - fantastic progress over the past year!


Still a great deal more headway to go though - if WOLED is going to be here to stay, LG is going to need to be able to win some customers that otherwise would have chosen a Vizio.
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post #140 of 159 Old 08-11-2014, 02:09 PM
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Can't argue with you on that - fantastic progress over the past year!


Still a great deal more headway to go though - if WOLED is going to be here to stay, LG is going to need to be able to win some customers that otherwise would have chosen a Vizio.

How about this?

http://www.cnet.com/news/lg-cuts-pri...entry-to-3500/
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post #141 of 159 Old 08-13-2014, 01:08 PM
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when is 77 coming out lol
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post #142 of 159 Old 08-13-2014, 02:01 PM
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^ Latest estimate is December and best guess street price is around $15k.
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post #143 of 159 Old 08-14-2014, 11:46 PM
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Impressive OLED-Lineup by LG:

http://www.lg.com/es/televisor-oled
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post #144 of 159 Old 08-15-2014, 10:17 AM
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when is 77 coming out lol
This may help, but perhaps only a little.
http://www.eisa.eu/awards/home-theat...015.html#award
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post #145 of 159 Old 08-15-2014, 02:19 PM
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^ Latest estimate is December and best guess street price is around $15k.
Update from forum sponsor says October. No further info on pricing.
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post #146 of 159 Old 08-23-2014, 04:38 AM
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Is there any word on the tech details in the EC9800? I'm curious to know if it will compare to say the Vizio R series with regards to support of HDR, WCG, and stuff like REC 2020. I feel if anyone has the money to plop down on say even the 77 inch, it would be a helpful push in buying the TV if it came with more options than OLED, 4k, and hdmi 2.0.

Just a thought and curious
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post #147 of 159 Old 08-23-2014, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Just updated the lead post.

55EC9300 has launched over the past week and is already available for street prices of $3000 :-)

65EC9700 expected to launch next month and already has pre-release street pricing of $6250.

77EC9800 expected to launch before the end of the year and I am predicting street pricing below $10,000 before year-end (and possibly as low as $9000!).

If the 77EC9800 does not have street pricing below $10,000 before yearend, it probably means that LG does not have the 90%+ yields they have stated and/or has a specific yield problem on the 77" panels that needs to be addressed before they stimulate demand...
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post #148 of 159 Old 08-24-2014, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Just updated the lead post.

55EC9300 has launched over the past week and is already available for street prices of $3000 :-)

65EC9700 expected to launch next month and already has pre-release street pricing of $6250.

77EC9800 expected to launch before the end of the year and I am predicting street pricing below $10,000 before year-end (and possibly as low as $9000!).

If the 77EC9800 does not have street pricing below $10,000 before yearend, it probably means that LG does not have the 90%+ yields they have stated and/or has a specific yield problem on the 77" panels that needs to be addressed before they stimulate demand...
From your mouth to LG's ears.
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post #149 of 159 Old 08-24-2014, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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From your mouth to LG's ears.

I'm growing increasingly confident that only a 77"-OLED-specific yield problem keeps this from happening.

We can be pretty sure that there is no such yield problem with 65" OLEDs (pre-release street pricing on the 65EC9700 proves it).

At 65", the 65EC9700 will be a fantastic product but not without competition - if Vizio is able to deliver the 65" Reference Series for about half the price of the 65EC9700, the decision for someone seeking premium 65" TV is not a slam-dunk. And then there is also the still-available Samsung 64F8500 for those who prefer top PQ on more mature technology (and also for about half the price of the 65EC9700).

At 77", if the 77EC9800 is priced below $10,000 (and possibly as low as $9000), it will be far more likely to dominate that niche segment and make quite a splash. Most of those customers (like you :-) seeking uber-big, uber-premium TVs will probably end up going for the 77EC9800 at that pice. Only those who are faint-of-heart to try new technology will hold off for another year or two. At this size there is no plasma option. The Shootout was focused on exactly this category and pretty much every LED/LCD was left in the dust by OLED and plasma. The Sony 85X950B did the best job representing LED/LCD but that costs $25.000. At 75-80", there are no FALD options and the best edge-lit out there is probably the Sony 79X900B for $7000-7500 or the Samsung UN78HU9000 for $6000 - 8000. Of course there are value options at this size like the 80" Vizio M for $3000, but those are edge-lit and targeted at the bargain hunter, not the videophile.

Dominating a high-end market segment (despite its small size) at this early stage of launching OLED technology to the public is far more valuable to LG than attempting to extract additional margin dollars and profit from early-adopter videophiles such as yourself. The pricing strategy LG has executed this year (including aggressive pre-release street pricing on the 65EC9700, which caught most of us by surprise) indicates to me that they have an intelligent and effective marketing strategy and the manufacturing machine in place to back it up.

A price higher than $10,000 for the 77EC9800 means that it is not ready for prime time this season and the 65EC9700 is the best they could do for this second generation product line launch.
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post #150 of 159 Old 08-24-2014, 12:49 PM
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I just checked out an LG 9300 at my closest Best Buy - not a Magnolia store. The BB LG specialist saw me ogling it. He told me they have the 65" 4K OLED in the store already. It won't go on display for a while yet, but they already have it in stock.

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Gear in this thread - EC9800 by PriceGrabber.com



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