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post #1 of 97 Old 06-12-2014, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Best TV for Film Quality Picture

My Samsung DLP TV is beginning to have stuck mirrors and I am debating whether to attempt to replace the chip or upgrade to a newer TV. My main concern is I want the most film like picture quality. With a DLP having a 'grain' on the screen and real 24hz capability, it reminds me of watching a movie in a cinema. Is the general consensus that modern flat panels still do not match the film like quality of a DLP? Or do they surpass the DLP now? I have seen quite a few well calibrated LEDs provide better visual depth, but their glossy screens and overall motion have not been film quality.


So, the question is, can I buy a flat panel 50-60" tv that equals or surpasses a DLP for cinema quality picture?
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post #2 of 97 Old 06-12-2014, 05:49 PM
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My vote goes for the Samsung KN55S9C OLED TV if you can find one. I managed to get a used one from Amazon and the most impressive thing I've noticed about it is the black levels…it truly enhances the picture quality of any source.

Samsung KN55S9C OLED TV
LG EL9500 OLED TV
Sony XEL-1 OLED TV
Samsung UN55C8000 3D LED TV
Samsung BD-C6900 and BD-F5900 3D Blu-ray players
Onkyo HT-S770 home theater system
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post #3 of 97 Old 06-12-2014, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundwave13 View Post
My Samsung DLP TV is beginning to have stuck mirrors and I am debating whether to attempt to replace the chip or upgrade to a newer TV. My main concern is I want the most film like picture quality. With a DLP having a 'grain' on the screen and real 24hz capability, it reminds me of watching a movie in a cinema. Is the general consensus that modern flat panels still do not match the film like quality of a DLP? Or do they surpass the DLP now? I have seen quite a few well calibrated LEDs provide better visual depth, but their glossy screens and overall motion have not been film quality.


So, the question is, can I buy a flat panel 50-60" tv that equals or surpasses a DLP for cinema quality picture?
A Panasonic last generation plasma might do you, if you could find one. OLED is great, but not yet easily affordable. If you can get a tech to replace the DMD chip (unless your a DIY) I'd do that. It will last you until the affordable OLED comes along, and you'll come out well ahead in the dough department.

Just my 2 cents. (weird new emoticons!)
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post #4 of 97 Old 06-13-2014, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Gonna have to say no to the Samsung - $9,000! I could buy a JVC Projector and 110" screen for half that! LOL. Though it looks gorgeous!

As for the DMD chip, that's my first choice. I'm a pretty good DIY person so I don't expect any trouble. I just read the Vizio vs Samsung demo on the homepage today and it doesn't move any points into the LED column. Neither TV seems to produce the same level of black across the entire screen as my DLP nor do they have the same smooth motion...
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post #5 of 97 Old 06-13-2014, 05:08 PM
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Samsung 64F8500 (the 60" buzzes)

Samsung 64F5300 (lacks Anti Reflection coatings) excellent price (the 60" has a Pentile screen)

Vizio M602i (Sharp panel and Full Arrray Local Dimming) excellent price

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"

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post #6 of 97 Old 06-13-2014, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundwave13 View Post
Gonna have to say no to the Samsung - $9,000! I could buy a JVC Projector and 110" screen for half that! LOL. Though it looks gorgeous!

As for the DMD chip, that's my first choice. I'm a pretty good DIY person so I don't expect any trouble. I just read the Vizio vs Samsung demo on the homepage today and it doesn't move any points into the LED column. Neither TV seems to produce the same level of black across the entire screen as my DLP nor do they have the same smooth motion...
There are some videos on replacing the DMD...a bit more complicated than replacing the whole light engine. Frankly, if I could find the latter at a good price, that's what I'd do. Preserving the proper mounting alignment of the DMD appears to be the trickiest part.

The beauty of the repair strategy is that for a low outlay you'll get your film look, and be able to transition to something great and affordable when you're ready.

And yes, a 110 inch screen is tempting...
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post #7 of 97 Old 06-13-2014, 09:32 PM
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Haven't seen a better picture than the oled
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post #8 of 97 Old 06-14-2014, 09:26 AM
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DLP front projector 1080p
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Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
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post #9 of 97 Old 06-15-2014, 11:19 AM
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I'm enjoying my first LED-LCD, a 50" Samsung HU8550 4k, (previously I had plasmas) and yesterday I watched Army of Darkness on Hdnet Movies, 1080i over DirecTV. It was great. It's a Bruce Campbell, displaced-in-time, swords-and-sorcery comedy flick, with night scenes and explosions, and armored knights in glinting armor in sword fights. Animated skeletons. I love the bright highlights. (It's on again 6/21.)

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post #10 of 97 Old 06-16-2014, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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After much research, I mostly narrowed down my options to either replace the DMD or buy a 60" LG plasma. The LG is the PB6600 available for $700-$850 depending on location and price-matching. After the reading the PB6600 thread, I'm disappointed to learn that what could be a superior picture comes with quite a few disadvantages. First, image retention; I was under the impression that plasma TVs had great motion (better then LCDs), and yet they suffer from image retention, or ghosting. Since I play PC games, I won't accept that. Then there is the super glossy screens, color bleeding, 100 hour burn in before splotchy color goes away, and finally pink/rose hues on the white balance. True, not all TV's would suffer from any or all of these things at the same time, but still. On the upside, it's 10 inches bigger and has better shadow detail....

I certainly put a lot of thought into finally upgrading to a DLP front projector, but from what I read, the $600-800 projectors aren't as good as what I currently have. Coupled with a very small room and 5' viewing distances, it's not worth it.
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post #11 of 97 Old 06-16-2014, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundwave13 View Post
After much research, I mostly narrowed down my options to either replace the DMD or buy a 60" LG plasma. The LG is the PB6600 available for $700-$850 depending on location and price-matching. After the reading the PB6600 thread, I'm disappointed to learn that what could be a superior picture comes with quite a few disadvantages. First, image retention; I was under the impression that plasma TVs had great motion (better then LCDs), and yet they suffer from image retention, or ghosting. Since I play PC games, I won't accept that. Then there is the super glossy screens, color bleeding, 100 hour burn in before splotchy color goes away, and finally pink/rose hues on the white balance. True, not all TV's would suffer from any or all of these things at the same time, but still. On the upside, it's 10 inches bigger and has better shadow detail....

I certainly put a lot of thought into finally upgrading to a DLP front projector, but from what I read, the $600-800 projectors aren't as good as what I currently have. Coupled with a very small room and 5' viewing distances, it's not worth it.
Image Retention is when the plasma is overheating and is starting to burn in. Keep the room dark, and slightly cool; and the contrast from getting to high on the TV, if you ever buy a plasma.
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post #12 of 97 Old 06-16-2014, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Weboh - none of those things are a problem. My viewing room is always dim, air conditioned, and the TV is on only two or three hours a day to watch movies or a tv show or two. While I do play video games, its only for two or three hours and I'd be using the calibrated movie settings. When I heard other people complain about image retention, I was worried there would be ghosting like LCDs did 10 years ago....
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post #13 of 97 Old 06-16-2014, 10:32 PM
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IR while real is not as prevalent as this forum may make it appear. People see others talk about and boom it becomes a major topic of discussion. Of course we have people who do nothing special and don't even think about IR in everyday life. If you PC game a lot then you may want to take a look at the LCD side of things as well. There are more than a few good sets out today that can be had for sub 2k prices.

Not sure where WeBoh heard that, but keeping your room cool won't stop IR. IR is when a stationary image letterbox bars, sports tickers/scrolls, channel IDs, game HUDs FFF etc have been left on for too long of a period. This period can vary set to set so as Lon as you change your content there shouldn't be an issue, unless the set is more prone to IR.


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post #14 of 97 Old 06-16-2014, 10:42 PM
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IR while real is not as prevalent as this forum may make it appear. People see others talk about and boom it becomes a major topic of discussion. Of course we have people who do nothing special and don't even think about IR in everyday life. If you PC game a lot then you may want to take a look at the LCD side of things as well. There are more than a few good sets out today that can be had for sub 2k prices.

Not sure where WeBoh heard that, but keeping your room cool won't stop IR. IR is when a stationary image letterbox bars, sports tickers/scrolls, channel IDs, game HUDs FFF etc have been left on for too long of a period. This period can vary set to set so as Lon as you change your content there shouldn't be an issue, unless the set is more prone to IR.


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what he says makes perfect sense in my opinion
What would cause a burn in? Too much heat caused by bright pictures, aka, too much contrast
You two are talking about the same thing, except he describes the cause
I turned my st50 up to 100 contrast and I have permanent image rentention, an ID logo in the bottom right corner of the tv, it has been there for over a year
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post #15 of 97 Old 06-17-2014, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
what he says makes perfect sense in my opinion
What would cause a burn in? Too much heat caused by bright pictures, aka, too much contrast
You two are talking about the same thing, except he describes the cause
I turned my st50 up to 100 contrast and I have permanent image rentention, an ID logo in the bottom right corner of the tv, it has been there for over a year
It's not literal burn in, as in too much heat, like if you hold a lighter to a piece of wood and it turns dark. It's differential aging of the phosphor. The temperature of the TV has virtually nothing to do with it.
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post #16 of 97 Old 06-17-2014, 06:23 AM
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It's not literal burn in, as in too much heat, like if you hold a lighter to a piece of wood and it turns dark. It's differential aging of the phosphor. The temperature of the TV has virtually nothing to do with it.

This, people are thinking "burn"=heat and that's not the case. "Burn in" is just permanent image retention. The "ghost" image looks as if it was "burned" into the screen.


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post #17 of 97 Old 06-17-2014, 08:49 AM
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All you have to know is NO LCD!
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post #18 of 97 Old 06-17-2014, 09:42 AM
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Apparently OLEDs are even more susceptible to Burn In than CRTs or Plasmas.

Even LCDs can develop Burn In of a sort if, for example, part of the screen is excited, and part of the screen continuously displays lettterboxed bars. It's the same thing that Stereodude was talking about...differential aging. But LCDS take longer to degrade.

And I tend to agree with that champion of Anti LCD thinking, ArtWood. LCDs just bother my eyes. I'll take emissive displays, or RPTVs or Front Projectors any day.
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post #19 of 97 Old 06-17-2014, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm not worried about burn-in, I'm worried about ghosting/motion blur. I'm sensitive to motion and wouldn't be happy if it was worse than what I already own. I know that plasma TVs (and maybe some LCDs) can produce a better, possibly more life-like image than my DLP, but I'm not getting the vibe that the community here says 'Yes, a brand-new 600Hz plasma TV is at least as good as what you're used to...', it's more like 'Eh - these aspects are great, and the rest isn't necessarily better, just different...'


Good thing about being a Best Buy Elite member - guess I could just buy it, play with it for 44 days and take it back on the 45th if I don't like it....lol
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post #20 of 97 Old 06-17-2014, 10:05 AM
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Soundwave; the thing is everyone is different. We could recommend you something, but if you like something else are opinions are mute. It's always best to take a look at what's available to you and make that decision off the available choices. You'll never get a straight answer here since there are people that love all the technologies offered. Each will say that they can get a "cinematic" experience from their sets. If you were looking for a defacto choice then you've come to the wrong place


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post #21 of 97 Old 06-17-2014, 11:03 AM
 
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Maybe someone should conduct a plasma experiment at the bottom end of the recommended temperature range to put this heat-induced burn-in malarkey theory to rest. I've been running my ZT60 for almost 200 hours now to get rid of some OCD (only seen from within 4 to 5 feet of screen) IR. It's reduced by about 75%, I'd wager. I still wouldn't grab an LCD (unless it had a zone number equal to or greater than the Sharp Elite...hello Vizio! Anybody home?).
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post #22 of 97 Old 06-17-2014, 11:05 AM
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Vinnie you'll have to wait for the R series if it ever comes to fruition however they may be able to do more with less now, so the number of zones may be less important than it used to be.


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post #23 of 97 Old 06-17-2014, 11:13 AM
 
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That's the exact series I had in mind, purported to have 384 zones (somebody thought that was necessary ). I don't believe that second claim just yet. Blooming and bad viewing angles on the 950B (an LCD panel with an SRP of $8k) have been reported, so the R is my last hope (short of selling a kidney for an OLED). I'd put up with one issue or the other but not both (even if I could see said blooming only 10% of the time). Ima freak like that. Unfortunately, the R series has no intermediate sizes between 65" and 120", so I'm kidding myself if I think that's a viable replacement for the ZT60. OLED it is...

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post #24 of 97 Old 06-17-2014, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I know, this is always the case with recommendations, but there are still generalities that are useful to me. Even though some people really like their LCDs, this thread in general follows my own observations that LCD is not the way to go for what I deem important in a display. OLED is way out of budget, so that's not a contender. The fact that plasma technology rates so highly almost everywhere in overall picture quality leads me keep it as a valid option.

Actually I am kind of surprised there isn't a general consensus about what I am asking about. True, everyone has different opinions and views, but since flat panels have been around for many years now, I figured there would be solid information that this technology or that technology can produce motion as good as or better than others. For example, the soap-opera effect from some 120hz motion LCDs. Most people know what it is and probably a majority don't like it. I'm sure if I asked what's better for film-quality images, a 24Hz DLP or 120Hz Advanced Motion LCD, it would be clear that the general opinion is that DLP wins.

I'm surprised there isn't a general opinion that yes or no, 600Hz plasma can or cannot match the motion you are used to seeing in a movie theater.
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post #25 of 97 Old 06-17-2014, 11:44 AM
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Maybe someone should conduct a plasma experiment at the bottom end of the recommended temperature range to put this heat-induced burn-in malarkey theory to rest.
It ain't heat!

Phosphor burn in, whether CRT or Plasma is from repeated excitation of a phosphor to emit the same color and luminance, from my understanding. After awhile the phosphor loses the ability to respond to changing values. And it ages differentially with respect to other phosphors in the display.

And to the OP...DLPs don't suffer from burn in because there's nothing that can happen short of the freezing of the micromirrors themselves. The mirror corresponding to a pixel either works or it doesn't. It doesn't fade.
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post #26 of 97 Old 06-17-2014, 12:16 PM
 
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No exclamations needed, sheesh. Yes, another word for it is MgO sputtering. I still would like to see the experiment done so that the falsehood can be laid to rest.
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post #27 of 97 Old 06-17-2014, 09:04 PM
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i do know my plasmas are hot, i would think a brighter contrast would emit more heat
unless the heat of the plasma is always the same, no matter how bright the picture

i also think the burn in of the white ID logo on my plasma tv was a direct result of me turning up the contrast to 100 and then letting my wife watch the ID channel(she has a bad habit of walking away and leaving the tv on)
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post #28 of 97 Old 06-17-2014, 09:14 PM
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...
i also think the burn in of the white ID logo on my plasma tv was a direct result of me turning up the contrast to 100 and then letting my wife watch the ID channel(she has a bad habit of walking away and leaving the tv on)
Turning up the contrast will increase screen burn, but it's not because of the heat. Same thing happens with CRTs.

Plasmas all give off heat. Great in winter.

By the way, there's big news concerning the possibility of cheaper OLEDs...and 4K at that...on the horizon. It looks like LG will be selling panels larger than 55" to Panasonic. Chinese makers may follow suit.

ArtWood...where are you?

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post #29 of 97 Old 06-17-2014, 09:25 PM
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Turning up the contrast will increase screen burn, but it's not because of the heat. Same thing happens with CRTs.

Plasmas all give off heat. Great in winter.
Makes sense, do you think the brightness would increase heat?
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post #30 of 97 Old 06-17-2014, 10:40 PM
 
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Naturally, because more brightness requires more watts.
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