The wait for flat LG 4K OLED sreens. Coping and speculation. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 137 Old 07-23-2014, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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The wait for flat LG 4K OLED sreens. Coping and speculation.

So surely like many of you, I'm very impatiently waiting for the LG 65" 4K OLED screens to come out. I cannot explain to you how ready I am for this TV, and have been holding off on upgrading my TV for quite a long time waiting for it. Of course I am thoroughly sold on the impact of perfect black and the importance of contrast, and it's the element I'm often so preoccupied with on so much of the content most important to me.

Of course, the splinter in my mind is that curve... I've virtually no interest in having a curved version of this like many of you, because I'm not sold on the marketing of TV form-factor vanity and related drivel, so it becomes a matter of "is my frothing desire for this TV enough that I can accept the curve, or do I endure a wait for however long for what I hope is an inevitable flat screen version..."

So, for the same reason that the price speculation thread exists, I'm just interested in thoughts about when we can expect this to happen, or if some of you have found ways to cope with the fact that our next-gen super TV, so close to fulfilling everything many of us have been wanting for so long, has a slight-yet-unfortunate curve, taunting you for the sake of a silly marketing message, heh.

So I guess what we de know is that LG first released the 1080p OLED screens at somewhere near this time period last year, and it took them until sometime the next spring to give us the flat "Gallery" version. My hope is that we don't have to wait even that long, or if we do have to wait, then hopefully we wouldn't have to wait longer than that this time, but I guess that's what is murky. It seems they know who wants the flat ones, and are selling the flat versions at a slight premium of the curved ones, which I'm at peace with just as long as we don't have to wait forever. Ultimately I guess there is a small advantage in waiting for this, since the prices will have likely come down in general to being pretty approachable for those wanting the best, even with an added premium for flat. I'm just about done with all of this waiting though, so my acceptable price range is pretty wide at this point.

Thoughts?

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post #2 of 137 Old 07-24-2014, 08:22 AM
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I'm totally with you on this, and welcome the creation of what I now regard as the online equivalent of a support group. :-)

Like you, I'd also wondered if we might see the arrival of a flat 65" 4K OLED next spring, similar to what LG did with the 55" gallery set. However, I suspect that, like it, we'll be asked to pay a major premium.

Perhaps more realistically we'll see a flat set arrive as a standard option in the 2015 line-up around this time next year. However, the pain still won't be completely eased, as we'll be then asked to pay a premium over the price the 2014 sets will have dropped to by then.

As for how I'm coping? Well, I'm lucky to be one of those deferred gratification types. However, I still check for information continuously, hoping to glean some sliver of gossip which will help keep me going until the set I want arrives at a price I'll pay.

I can only hope that when I do finally get my hands on one it doesn't prove an anticlimax after all the years of waiting.

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post #3 of 137 Old 07-24-2014, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm totally with you on this, and welcome the creation of what I now regard as the online equivalent of a support group. :-)
Hahaha! Thank you for replying Desk. So I have a feeling that I made a mistake naming this "coping" since maybe it's a little too far down into the melodramatic "first world problems" category for those who don't appreciate it with humor, but from my perspective, I think you could pretty much already rename some of the active threads on here as "God, the wait for this thing is maddening, and I need it to be perfect!" or "God that seems amazing, but I don't have to buy it for a long time right, because I've got this expensive plasma, right?" or "I can just buy a 1080p one now right, since 4K is at least 20 to 30 years off right, and it doesn't make a difference unless I inject it into my corneas right?"


So yeah, I think there is quite a bit of "coping" and drip-feeding of this feeling already, hahaha!


"I can only hope that when I do finally get my hands on one it doesn't prove an anticlimax after all the years of waiting."


I've no worry here, particularly since I've gone so far as to skip upgrading to a proper plasma (*shame*) because I keep telling myself that OLED is just around the corner, and I've already been able to spend time with friends' amazing plasmas. I fussed about vanity in my original post, but there is a vanity-like satisfaction in knowing that we've finally got a screen that solves irksome deficiencies we've all been preoccupied with for so long. Plus, in the unlikely case that I lose my obsessive focus on the glorious black levels (which I feel like is unlikely, especially since I play a lot of games on it as well, and it seems every other game is in some dark setting that really plays up the whole contrast effect), then it's still better than my current screen in nearly every way, including size and the introduction of 4K, which I'm sure will have its appeal soon enough.


Anyway, here's to hoping for all of this to come together sooner rather than later!
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post #4 of 137 Old 07-24-2014, 07:50 PM
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I'm waiting for an 85" 4K OLED. But since 65" and 77" will be out first, I'll join you and support you.
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post #5 of 137 Old 07-24-2014, 08:30 PM
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I'd love to know the idiot execs at LG and Samsung who decided that people wanted curved screens in the first place. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

At the very least, they could've offered both curved and flat versions of the same model, then waited to see which sold better.
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post #6 of 137 Old 07-25-2014, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Hinsoog View Post
I've no worry here, particularly since I've gone so far as to skip upgrading to a proper plasma (*shame*) because I keep telling myself that OLED is just around the corner, and I've already been able to spend time with friends' amazing plasmas. I fussed about vanity in my original post, but there is a vanity-like satisfaction in knowing that we've finally got a screen that solves irksome deficiencies we've all been preoccupied with for so long.
Amen to that. It perhaps portrays me as being either not a particularly committed videophile or one who is so committed as to be committable (to an asylum), but when I finally go OLED I'll have bypassed plasma and LCD technology. That's right, I'm still rocking an old Cathode Ray Tube television, now an amazing 17 years old.

So, for me, it's been a long, agonising wait. I'm not sure how long I'll be able to hold on once the 65" 4K OLED comes out, but if we get word of a flat alternative within the first six months then I can see myself waiting yet longer still.

I'm just wondering whether a flat, razor-thin TV of that size will have the integral structure necessary to stand on its own, or whether the only option with those sets will be to wall mount them?

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post #7 of 137 Old 07-25-2014, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
I'd love to know the idiot execs at LG and Samsung who decided that people wanted curved screens in the first place. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

At the very least, they could've offered both curved and flat versions of the same model, then waited to see which sold better.

I suspect the answer to whether buyers would choose flat or curved worried LG - quite a bit! Having a warehouse full of unsold curved screens while the flat ones were whizzing out the door was never going to fly.
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post #8 of 137 Old 07-25-2014, 08:02 PM
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Unfortunately,

The waiting and anticipation of the PQ of the 65 4k OLED over an LCD will probably get me over my distaste for having a curved TV. Even though I have to mount it!!! I so appreciate what LG is doing, but......what is LG doing????
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post #9 of 137 Old 07-26-2014, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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So on the mounting topic, currently the Gallery version of the flat 1080p model has to be mounted, and I've not seen a definitive source, but I've heard that the 65" 4K OLED screens from LG can be mounted.


It's interesting that LG seems to be using mounting as part of the differentiator between these screens, especially since it feels like they are almost "hiding" the flat version of their current 1080p OLED screens under the "Gallery" marketing as if to say "oh don't mind the people buying this non-curved screen, it's because they like mounting things and having the aesthetic of it seeming like a painting with a great bit frame. There is totally no reason to care about a non-curved screen otherwise, believe us!"


For me this actually part of the excitement, because I'll be giving my setup an overhaul for this TV which includes mounting it at the perfect height (as opposed to being on a big obnoxious stand) and getting my center channel speaker closer to where it should be etc.


But at any rate, it all seems like evidence that they don't really want this division in favor of curved, but it's still there, regardless of whatever marketing hand trick they want to waive around.
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post #10 of 137 Old 07-28-2014, 10:22 AM
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Yes, I'm in the same boat. I want 4k OLED bad (my main display is a HD-Ready Panasonic 56' CRT RPTV 720p/1080i, but my bedroom is gen1 1080p LCD). I'm tempted to buy it despite the curve because of the fear that the OLED displays will die out and LCD 4k will take over because of price costs....
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post #11 of 137 Old 07-28-2014, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Desk. View Post

So, for me, it's been a long, agonising wait. I'm not sure how long I'll be able to hold on once the 65" 4K OLED comes out, but if we get word of a flat alternative within the first six months then I can see myself waiting yet longer still.

Desk
Of course you could continue to wait for that elusive, flat screen OLED, and run the risk of LG deciding this OLED thing isn't working out from a profitability standpoint. Their departure from OLED is certainly within the realm of possibilities.

It wouldn't be the first time a better tech folded up shop and went home.
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post #12 of 137 Old 07-28-2014, 04:40 PM
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Were LG to do that so quickly Ken, I think one would have been better off waiting and not buying.
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post #13 of 137 Old 07-28-2014, 07:55 PM
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me too, it's been a long, agonising wait. I'm not sure how long I'll be able to hold on once the 65" 4K OLED comes out, but if we get word of a flat alternative within the first six months then I can see myself waiting yet longer still.[IMG]http://*******/mTg8QS[/IMG]
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post #14 of 137 Old 07-28-2014, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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So it seems that we really aren't alone. I think that LG knows what they have here and how much they have to gain if they handle this properly. Even all of the signs that they are ready to be more aggressive with the price point to me says that they are looking for a sweet spot that could really make this take off in a way that perhaps LG hasn't gotten to experience up to this point. It seems that all of the manufacturers really covet this technology for good reason, and seem to downplay it like it doesn't exist yet, I suppose perhaps because they know that LG has something that invalidates their technology basically. I guess the fear is that competitor's won't even have to continue to pretend that it doesn't exist as a viable option if LG lets it cave in on itself, leaving us stuck with the painful waiting again. So I'm nervous too, but I have a good feeling that LG isn't going to fumble this, and is going to make this within reach for those ready for the best.


Within that same sentiment, I think they are also going to be eager to really hit that sweet spot by satisfying every angle of the real demand for this and not miss this audience right here who wants the perfect screen which would include no marketing hand tricks subtracting from it with a curve. I don't know if we represent the audience that has to start buying this en masse for this to be a success, but they have to know that this audience is very important, perhaps especially early on, and I just have to believe that they are going to give us a flat one soon. Maybe it's all wishful thinking, but I just really think that LG knows what they have, and aren't going to abuse it.
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post #15 of 137 Old 08-01-2014, 03:02 AM
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If I was LG CEO I would release the flat version first and follow with the curved one, Curved is really a personal TV for one person or two sitting in its focal point, Many people prefer a TV that can be viewed by family and friends, If I buy a TV for my personal use it shouldn't be more than 37".
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post #16 of 137 Old 08-01-2014, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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So I have to say, now that we have a better idea of the price and expected release of the LG 4K 65" OLED, I find myself with an agonizing desire to pull the trigger. The curve just has to be marketing tripe, but facing this now, I'm trying to justify it to myself and trying to be ok with it. I'm sure in the short-term I would be, but what about in the slightly-longer-term... It's to the point where I'm looking at the marketing for the curve and trying to validate it. I would be an ideal candidate for it if the "sweet spot" introduced has any real sweetness that makes any sense.


So I really want to know, has anyone else like me, who is deeply reluctant to get a curved one at this point, found a way to make peace with the curve for themselves to go for it? I'm holding on to the idea that a flat one has to be right around the corner, but it's not going to be a pleasant wait.

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post #17 of 137 Old 08-01-2014, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Hinsoog View Post
So I have to say, now that we have a better idea of the price and expected release of the LG 4K 65" OLED, I find myself with an agonizing desire to pull the trigger. The curve just has to be marketing tripe, but facing this now, I'm trying to justify it to myself and trying to be ok with it. I'm sure in the short-term I would be, but what about in the slightly-longer-term... It's to the point where I'm looking at the marketing for the curve and trying to validate it. I would be an ideal candidate for it if the "sweet spot" introduced has any real sweetness that makes any sense.


So I really want to know, has anyone else like me, who is deeply reluctant to get a curved one at this point, found a way to make peace with the curve for themselves to go for it? I'm holding on to the idea that a flat one has to be right around the corner, but it's not going to be a peasant wait.
I was convinced the curve was a gimmick (and still may very well be) and I "assumed" I would hate it, but decided to give it a try. Now, at best I think it may add something intangible to watching content within the sweet spot, there is some pseudo science from LG that backs this up (could be all BS) and at the least it's really a non issue. The curve is SO SLIGHT that I can't seriously think someone would be very bothered by it once they have it at home and watch it for a few hours.

Many owners were skeptical of the curve but I don't think anyone actually returned it because of it. Also, some have reported less reflections (or different) with the curve in brightly lit rooms, but it does "stretch" reflections as well.

Check out the owners thread, not many complaints from OWNERS that I saw and the majority of complaints are from people who have never tried it at home and keep harping about FLAT OLED. I think you can even wall mount the upcoming OLEDs.
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post #18 of 137 Old 08-01-2014, 04:51 PM
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I think a curve on a 65 inch set in a small room where viewer is 7Ft. or less from screen may add something to the immersive experience.

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post #19 of 137 Old 08-01-2014, 06:49 PM
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I was convinced the curve was a gimmick (and still may very well be) and I "assumed" I would hate it, but decided to give it a try. Now, at best I think it may add something intangible to watching content within the sweet spot, there is some pseudo science from LG that backs this up (could be all BS) and at the least it's really a non issue. The curve is SO SLIGHT that I can't seriously think someone would be very bothered by it once they have it at home and watch it for a few hours.
Do you not see distortions in tickers crawling at the bottom of the curved screens? It's hard to miss on the Samsungs and I'd be surprised if it's much different on the LG. I've seen their OLED a number of times, but never with something like a ticker crawl.
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post #20 of 137 Old 08-01-2014, 09:47 PM
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Were LG to do that so quickly Ken, I think one would have been better off waiting and not buying.
You guys sure like to be the bad news speculation crew, lol? Why purchase a 4K TV, there is a better chance it fails as the experts do not see a benefit. Can you say Betamax?

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post #21 of 137 Old 08-01-2014, 09:51 PM
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I was convinced the curve was a gimmick (and still may very well be) and I "assumed" I would hate it, but decided to give it a try. Now, at best I think it may add something intangible to watching content within the sweet spot, there is some pseudo science from LG that backs this up (could be all BS) and at the least it's really a non issue. The curve is SO SLIGHT that I can't seriously think someone would be very bothered by it once they have it at home and watch it for a few hours.

Many owners were skeptical of the curve but I don't think anyone actually returned it because of it. Also, some have reported less reflections (or different) with the curve in brightly lit rooms, but it does "stretch" reflections as well.

Check out the owners thread, not many complaints from OWNERS that I saw and the majority of complaints are from people who have never tried it at home and keep harping about FLAT OLED. I think you can even wall mount the upcoming OLEDs.
Not saying it's better but it's so slight it really makes no difference. I do not like it on the 65hu9000, only because the black levels are effected greatly when you move slightly to the side. I can see someone who wants to wall mount it having an issue with the current set, I could have went for the flat and would have of if it were an issue.
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post #22 of 137 Old 08-01-2014, 11:26 PM
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I think a curve on a 65 inch set in a small room where viewer is 7Ft. or less from screen may add something to the immersive experience.
(a) I doubt it very much. Unless by add "something" you mean some tiny thing that most viewers will honestly never notice, but....

(b) I doubt very much that more than 2-3% of people with a 65" TV sit within 7 feet of it. I'm sure fewer than 10% do.

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Do you not see distortions in tickers crawling at the bottom of the curved screens? It's hard to miss on the Samsungs and I'd be surprised if it's much different on the LG. I've seen their OLED a number of times, but never with something like a ticker crawl.
And.... this. If those 2-10% of people are sitting up close and getting any distortion at all, whatever gain in "immersiveness" they've placebo-ed themselves into thinking is there will likely be negated by the general annoyance of distortion.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #23 of 137 Old 08-02-2014, 12:14 AM - Thread Starter
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So it seems more so than usual that there is this divide of people very eager for reasons to jump vs. people looking for excuses not to jump, but ultimately, it's hard to decide to just stomach the curve for the fact that it's not too steep an offense in practice, but depending on when the flat ones come out, it could be years of "this is the Mecca of screens, BUT, sorry about the evidence of what might be a marketing ploy that may or may not subtract more than it adds."


But, I like this positive angle on it too, because I don't know how long I can hold off on buying this TV. It's sooooo close to being perfect, and clearly it more than makes up for it. I'm even trying to talk myself into the form-factor-vanity angle. When ranting about this recently, before I could explain, I got an interested "oooooooohhhhh!" from the word "curve." But I guess just as potent on that side of things is the judgmental gaze of people like me, who want no compromises on picture quality. So I guess I'll sound redundant here, but, pushing myself towards this curved version again, maybe the key is that it's not really a compromise ultimately, and then you get points for having an exotic shape. Tough... I wish LG would drop some kind of hint or something, and fast...


And by the way, I don't know why people are so afraid of being close to their screens. I've been happily sitting really close to my screen compared to the size of my screen for years, and now 4K screams that there is no reason to sit a world away. Based on some people's preferences for viewing distance, viewing conditions, quality of sound equipment, volume levels, and neglect of the best picture quality, I actually humor the thought that some people are somehow averse to the experience of being more deeply immersed in a viewing/listening experience.

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post #24 of 137 Old 08-02-2014, 05:02 AM
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So it seems more so than usual that there is this divide of people very eager for reasons to jump vs. people looking for excuses not to jump, but ultimately, it's hard to decide to just stomach the curve for the fact that it's not too steep an offense in practice, but depending on when the flat ones come out, it could be years of "this is the Mecca of screens, BUT, sorry about the evidence of what might be a marketing ploy that may or may not subtract more than it adds."


But, I like this positive angle on it too, because I don't know how long I can hold off on buying this TV. It's sooooo close to being perfect, and clearly it more than makes up for it. I'm even trying to talk myself into the form-factor-vanity angle. When ranting about this recently, before I could explain, I got an interested "oooooooohhhhh!" from the word "curve." But I guess just as potent on that side of things is the judgmental gaze of people like me, who want no compromises on picture quality. So I guess I'll sound redundant here, but, pushing myself towards this curved version again, maybe the key is that it's not really a compromise ultimately, and then you get points for having an exotic shape. Tough... I wish LG would drop some kind of hint or something, and fast...


And by the way, I don't know why people are so afraid of being close to their screens. I've been happily sitting really close to my screen compared to the size of my screen for years, and now 4K screams that there is no reason to sit a world away. Based on some people's preferences for viewing distance, viewing conditions, quality of sound equipment, volume levels, and neglect of the best picture quality, I actually humor the thought that some people are somehow averse to the experience of being more deeply immersed in a viewing/listening experience.
Go for it! I can almost guarantee you that you will not be disappointed. You WILL be disappointed if you buy an LCD and see those grey's that try to replicate black, and then you will be always questioning yourself as to how much better the OLED could have been.....

I'm the same way. I have to have the best picture, as I can't stand thinking that their is a better display then what I have, especially if it's reasonably priced.

I sit around 5 feet away from my 55" and find the curve adds immersion in my totally blacked out basement.

Can't say if tickers would bother me as I don't watch tickers on the TV, but gaming is unmolested by the curve, and many owners are currently gaming on it and don't have issue with it either.

I also have a 110" screen with the best projector (for the money) on the market (IMHO), the JVC RS4910, which has better blacks then any flat panel, and the LG still makes the JVC look grey.... Close to black and actual black is a huge difference that only someone who has an OLED can appreciate. Their is nothing that will beat the 65" LG OLED, curve and all.
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post #25 of 137 Old 08-02-2014, 05:39 AM
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Do you not see distortions in tickers crawling at the bottom of the curved screens? It's hard to miss on the Samsungs and I'd be surprised if it's much different on the LG. I've seen their OLED a number of times, but never with something like a ticker crawl.
Ken: If the speculation on IR/burnin proves true the last thing you would want to do is watch CNBC with it's stock ticker on an OLED. Had a 65" Panny plasma during the stock market melt down of 2008/2009. The only burn in after 5 years was where the ticker was located. Luckily only showed up on test patterns.
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post #26 of 137 Old 08-02-2014, 08:32 AM
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(a) I doubt it very much. Unless by add "something" you mean some tiny thing that most viewers will honestly never notice, but....

(b) I doubt very much that more than 2-3% of people with a 65" TV sit within 7 feet of it. I'm sure fewer than 10% do.



And.... this. If those 2-10% of people are sitting up close and getting any distortion at all, whatever gain in "immersiveness" they've placebo-ed themselves into thinking is there will likely be negated by the general annoyance of distortion.
Okay,since i respect your professionalism from years of reading your threads I will put the curve behind me and get ready for a flat 65 Oled but it better come soon since i just turned 67!.I will be one of the few sitting 7 ft from my 65 but it will be 4K so my seating distance might make some sense.
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post #27 of 137 Old 08-02-2014, 08:42 AM
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Seen the current 880 on a wall in a shop it looked small think a 65" flat would look more in place.
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post #28 of 137 Old 08-02-2014, 09:47 PM
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So I have to say, now that we have a better idea of the price and expected release of the LG 4K 65" OLED, I find myself with an agonizing desire to pull the trigger. The curve just has to be marketing tripe, but facing this now, I'm trying to justify it to myself and trying to be ok with it. I'm sure in the short-term I would be, but what about in the slightly-longer-term... It's to the point where I'm looking at the marketing for the curve and trying to validate it. I would be an ideal candidate for it if the "sweet spot" introduced has any real sweetness that makes any sense.


So I really want to know, has anyone else like me, who is deeply reluctant to get a curved one at this point, found a way to make peace with the curve for themselves to go for it? I'm holding on to the idea that a flat one has to be right around the corner, but it's not going to be a pleasant wait.
I think I'll go ahead with the purchase regardless of the curve. I've heard it is slightly less curved than the Samsung's, but am not positive. Either way, I think waiting and prolonging enjoyment is not something I want to do. It probably won't be my last TV and I'll always have an excuse to purchase a new one. Even though I truly don't need it.
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post #29 of 137 Old 08-03-2014, 05:56 PM
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I think the fact that Samsung launched a flexible LCD model in Korea puts some pressure on LG to answer with a similar product.

Since LG already demoed a flexible OLED at CES, they might fast-track that prototype to a retail launch sooner than expected. Flexible is probably the closest you'll get to flat. Just throw away the remote after you make it flat.
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post #30 of 137 Old 08-03-2014, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Go for it! I can almost guarantee you that you will not be disappointed. You WILL be disappointed if you buy an LCD and see those grey's that try to replicate black, and then you will be always questioning yourself as to how much better the OLED could have been.....

I'm the same way. I have to have the best picture, as I can't stand thinking that their is a better display then what I have, especially if it's reasonably priced.

I sit around 5 feet away from my 55" and find the curve adds immersion in my totally blacked out basement.

Can't say if tickers would bother me as I don't watch tickers on the TV, but gaming is unmolested by the curve, and many owners are currently gaming on it and don't have issue with it either.

I also have a 110" screen with the best projector (for the money) on the market (IMHO), the JVC RS4910, which has better blacks then any flat panel, and the LG still makes the JVC look grey.... Close to black and actual black is a huge difference that only someone who has an OLED can appreciate. Their is nothing that will beat the 65" LG OLED, curve and all.
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Originally Posted by 15feetAway View Post
I think I'll go ahead with the purchase regardless of the curve. I've heard it is slightly less curved than the Samsung's, but am not positive. Either way, I think waiting and prolonging enjoyment is not something I want to do. It probably won't be my last TV and I'll always have an excuse to purchase a new one. Even though I truly don't need it.

I love this, and I know there have got to be quite a few people in this situation reading this that this is helping too!


So I agree with the reasoning of both of you, and I think I'm basically at peace with this. I'm basically decided to get one of these unless there is any whispering about a flat one near launch. Like Wizziwig just posted directly above this post, I just feel like they have so much reason to release a flat one in a timely manner. I've humored the thought of waiting at least until CES in early January where it seems likely that LG would say something to decide to give in the curved one, and if there is no word of a flat one, then definitely buying a curved one, but I just feel so done with this waiting, and I'm nearly at peace with the slight curve. So we'll see, but at least now I feel like the time is truly near!
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