LG 55EC9300 Brings Price for OLED Closer to Earth - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 08:31 AM
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Pressure! That is what this OLED price point is doing to LCD.
LCD has countered with 4K and FALD.
I believe LCD manufactures should have pushed FALD to the market when they were competing against plasma alone.
I do not buy a TV every year,if I did my wife would have killed me long ago.
My first FALD LED was a 40 inch Samsung 81f model which was almost 4K when it first came out,it didn't sell at that price,so best buy dropped it to 1K in the fall of 2007 and I jumped on it,like the Micro center OLED drop.
My next FALD was the LG LV 9500 55" at 1500.00,when Sony was selling FALD at 4k.
OLED is going to kill off LCD,unless LCD can drop prices fast,with FALD 4K.
When OLED prices fall,I'm in.
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post #32 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraBlack View Post
You cannot have very good picture quality without having very deep blacks (which 55UB9500 doesn't have).
Deep enough black for me, considering I won't have to pay $6 to 8K, or wait another 6 months to a year for an OLED 4K panel.

Off-axis, blacks, colors, HDMI 2.0, and infinite adjustability makes the 55UB9500 a steal at $2K, which is what I paid.

Right about the time its service life is over, 4K OLED will be a better value, and I'll buy one.
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post #33 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 09:35 AM
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I'll wait for a 4K OLED Flat 65" at around $3.5k, let's how long it takes

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post #34 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 09:39 AM
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I think they stole you at $2K. Just kidding. I just checked for online pricing and I found it for $1827.70 including free shipping. I have learned never to brag about pricing. If you look hard enough, you can ALWAYs find a better deal. And $1827.70 is hardly a steal.

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post #35 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 09:44 AM
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Most astounding PQ on the market aside, what makes this debut so impressive is when you compare the price of it to what a 40" plasma cost at its debut.

As to the curve, I screamed and moaned at its outset from AVS reports, but once I saw it in person it became a non-issue and a benefit in the WAF department.
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post #36 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by iamjason View Post
not for me at that size and price - i have a 60 in vizio and am quite happy with it but it has the soap opera effect that makes great shows and movies look like after noon specials - the image is technically great but has a look that makes movies like 12 yrs a slave look cheesy....now with my projector the images look like the should....will the oled screens correct this?
Hi Jason, your TV might have a different way of reaching settings but if you have Smart TV, have you tried going through VIA -> HDTV Settings -> TV Picture Settings -> Picture -> More -> Advanced Picture

Then change in the below order...

Real Cinema Mode -> Off
Smooth Motion Effect -> Off

This should fix the Soap Opera Effect.
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post #37 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
Gee guys. we are drifting from the question "wouldn't you" that Scott asked. I suppose it doesn't matter though as long as you keep on posting. So i will smoothly ask as question designed to keep the hits coming.

What do you think is important to picture quality? What does OLED have to offer over plasma and edge lit LCD.. Is input lag over a certain time a defect in design like too small a drain in a bath tub. Lag is a function of processing speed. Should a manufacturer use less processing to get reduced lag thus err fixing it. maybe a game mode which bypasses superior scaling etc.

Is OLED the ultimate display technology? Why? Hope you like this post Scott.
I like it just fine, Mark; thanks for stimulating more discussion!

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post #38 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 12:37 PM
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Lg leading the way even tho first gen been a bumpy ride.
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post #39 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

What do you think is important to picture quality? What does OLED have to offer over plasma and edge lit LCD..
.
Black level and contrast ratio over plasma

black level,screen uniformity , natural color, off angle viewing..and a few other things over edge lit LED

BUT...since the over 90% of the buyers find that some sort of edge lit led works quite well....OLED is going to be a harder sell until the price drops a bit

and I mean even over the $1999 55" Microcenter OLED deal
a "pretty good " edge lit LED is half that price
that new Vizio FALD, which I have not seen yet, is also a contender in the high performance to price paid ratio...based on some impressions I have read

The question is
How much better does it have to be for someone to pay twice as much per inch?


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post #40 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
Most astounding PQ on the market aside, what makes this debut so impressive is when you compare the price of it to what a 40" plasma cost at its debut.

As to the curve, I screamed and moaned at its outset from AVS reports, but once I saw it in person it became a non-issue and a benefit in the WAF department.

and a 40" plasma price didnt fall 50% after it was on the market for less than a year either..


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post #41 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 01:08 PM
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Although 50% is impressive still, its closer to 80% drop in just over a year if you use the initial 15k price.

Makes me face palm myself when I think I spent $3,700 on an Edgelit LCD just 2 years ago that doesn't have even half the uniformity and 99% less contrast ratio.
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post #42 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post


The company's third OLED TV to reach the market in 13 months breaks the $100-per-diagonal-inch price barrier.

Most members of AVS Forum know that OLED is the flat-panel technology to beat when it comes to deep blacks and vivid colors; in fact, many videophiles see it as the successor to plasma. However, the price of admission into the OLED club has been extremely steep—many times the cost of even flagship LED-LCD TVs of similar size. And reports that Sony and Samsung plan to back off from aggressive OLED development have not helped bolster confidence that the technology will ever make it into the mainstream.

Meanwhile, LG is forging ahead with OLED, announcing this week that its latest model, the 55" 55EC9300, will sell for only $3500, starting on August 24 at Best Buy, with pre-orders being accepted now on BestBuy.com. That still isn't cheap by any means, but it's 75% less than the $15,000 price tag carried by the company's first 55" OLED TV, the 55EA9800, just over a year ago. At that rate, next year's models could go for under $1000! (Of course, prices probably won't fall at a linear rate, but it's fun to fantasize.)

The 55EC9300 is "only" 1080p, and its screen is curved, though the curve is more gentle than Samsung's comparable offering, and it can be wall-mounted, unlike its progenitor. At its thinnest, the screen is a mere 4.5 millimeters thick, and it has virtually no bezel, which certainly looks cool.

Like all LG OLED TVs, this one uses WRGB (white, red, green, blue) subpixels, and the viewing angle is far wider than any LCD TV. The 55EC9300 is the first LG OLED TV to feature the company's webOS smart-TV platform, which is said to provide nearly instantaneous switching between broadcast TV, streaming services, and external devices, and it offers sophisticated recommendation capabilities. Also included is LG's Magic Remote, which behaves much like an "air mouse" with voice commands.

I realize that few AVS members like a curved screen, but I think this news is important because of the dramatic drop in OLED pricing. While I was joking earlier about next year's models going for less than $1000, I am heartened to know that prices are falling fast. Now, if only LG would make more flat OLEDs with down-to-earth pricing for those of us who don't want a curved screen, I'd be all over that, wouldn't you?

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But the non-curved models cannot be table mounted can they? Is that inherent in the structure of the set? I do not want a wall mounted set, and even those that do may shy away since the distance will be farther from their viewing area.

Then there still is the question of the blue phosphors bluring out too quickly?

Thanks.
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post #43 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 01:49 PM
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progress! finally something in the video market that's actually getting better!


imagine how well they'd be doing with a flat version though. I really feel like the ppl most interested in a curved display(and this is coming from talking to non-avs members) are the same ppl that expect to get a 80" tv for less than 2grand, and thnk 55" is small. the ppl who are willing to spend 4k on a tv, and would rather have a fantastic 55" screen instead of a crappy 80" screen, want the panel flat.


in the end, it's like making the screen curved will make more ppl look at it in the store, and talk about, and maybe even swoon over it. but it's not going to sell more of them

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post #44 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 02:38 PM
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Like the new 2014 design better than 2013 that looked almost better from its back than front.
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post #45 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 02:43 PM
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Think now that the $3k barrier has been breached, I'm in !!!
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post #46 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
progress! finally something in the video market that's actually getting better!


imagine how well they'd be doing with a flat version though. I really feel like the ppl most interested in a curved display(and this is coming from talking to non-avs members) are the same ppl that expect to get a 80" tv for less than 2grand, and thnk 55" is small. the ppl who are willing to spend 4k on a tv, and would rather have a fantastic 55" screen instead of a crappy 80" screen, want the panel flat.


in the end, it's like making the screen curved will make more ppl look at it in the store, and talk about, and maybe even swoon over it. but it's not going to sell more of them

That isn't true. Massive prime time TV advertising making people want a curved set just because they say it is cool. Show em the curve says Amy from the movie. People will want it because its the thing to have.

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post #47 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 03:59 PM
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I would! Exciting news for sure .

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post
Good news. Hope the motion performance is improved this year.
Did the "motion performance" suck last year?

I was under the impression these OLED's had an excellent "refresh rate", as I was looking at one of these for watching my (sports) football games.
Between this and the issue with the "blue pixels", I may wait a while longer .
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post #48 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
That isn't true. Massive prime time TV advertising making people want a curved set just because they say it is cool. Show em the curve says Amy from the movie. People will want it because its the thing to have.
I stick with what I said. there's a difference between what ppl want and what they buy. I don't think the 'curve' is going to sell with those who actually buy the best. not saying none of them will sell, I'm just saying the market would be greater if they left them flat, and just sold the 'oled' factor instead. that way you get the ppl who are avs type members that want the actual best display out there, plus you can still market to the sheeple who just want to think they have the best out there even though they can't tell the difference.


so I go back to my little bubble. most of my friends are impressed with the curve, but out of all the ppl I know, I'm the only one who's actually going to spend 3k+ on a tv, and I'm not the least bit interested. so from that small example, none of those TV's will sell anyway, because the ppl who listen to the marketing won't pay the price they cost anyway. it's like advertising lambos and Ferraris to high school kids. of course they'll want them, but it's not going to actually increase sales.
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post #49 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 04:12 PM
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That's great news. Even with the curve and small size this LG would be a top contender if my current plasma broke.

Thanks for the news
Cheers
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post #50 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 04:23 PM
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As you mention few like the curve. I don't understand why these TV manufacturers insist on the curved screen.
It impedes the viewing angle and skews the image based on where you are sitting.
Sony knew this back in the Tube Trinitron days and produced flat screen tube TVs.
There is a reason a paintings canvass is not concave.


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post #51 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
I think they stole you at $2K. Just kidding. I just checked for online pricing and I found it for $1827.70 including free shipping. I have learned never to brag about pricing. If you look hard enough, you can ALWAYs find a better deal. And $1827.70 is hardly a steal.
$2K seems like larceny (tax included), considering the PQ and abilities of the set, compared to the Sony 55" XBR850B, which I took home, and brought back to the store, the next day, and the comparable Samsung, which looks like mud off axis by more than 20 degrees.

Everything, of course, is relative.
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post #52 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 04:38 PM
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Makes the HDTV shootout this weekend more relevant for those seeking a new HDTV. I wonder if the panelists will express an opinon on the curved shape. Not sure if any of the HDTV's in the shootout are flat.
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post #53 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
Black level and contrast ratio over plasma

black level,screen uniformity , natural color, off angle viewing..and a few other things over edge lit LED

BUT...since the over 90% of the buyers find that some sort of edge lit led works quite well....OLED is going to be a harder sell until the price drops a bit

and I mean even over the $1999 55" Microcenter OLED deal
a "pretty good " edge lit LED is half that price
that new Vizio FALD, which I have not seen yet, is also a contender in the high performance to price paid ratio...based on some impressions I have read

The question is
How much better does it have to be for someone to pay twice as much per inch?


Warren

55" Vizio M Series 1080p FALD LED/LCD is priced at $1000 - considered by many to be the best LED/LCD 1080p TV produced this year, it is priced at half the price of the $2000 Micro Center deal (steal) on the 55EA9800.


Or you can spend $1900 on the 70" Vizio M Series - so OLED improvements in dark levels and infinite contrast versus another 15" (62%) in screen area.


55" Vizio E Series 1080p FALD LED/LCD is priced at $680 - a small step backwards in features and PQ from the M Series, it is considered by many to be the performance-for-price leader in the 1080p market this year and is priced at one third of the $2000 Micro Center deal on the 55EA9800.


Or you can spend $1500 on the 70" Vizio E Series - so OLED improvements in dark levels and infinite contrast versus another 15" (62%) in screen area at 3/4 the price.


Or if you value 4K more than increased screen size, the 55" Vizio P Series 4K FALD LED/LCD is priced at $1400, les than 3/4 the price of the Micro Center deal.


Or if you want both 4K and a larger screen size, the 70" Vizio P Series 4K FALD LED/LCD is currently priced on Amazon at $2500 - 25% more expensive than the Microcenter deal for 4K resolution and a screen that is 15" (62%) bigger.


And the 65EC9700 65" 4K OLED currently priced at $6250 is two-and-a-half times the price of the 70" Vizio P (and almost 3 times the price of the 65" Vizio P).


If the new crop of value-leading Vizio FALD LEDs/LCDs is the reference for LED/LCD price, even 'Micro Center' pricing on LG OLEDs is closer to 3X the price than 2X the price...
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post #54 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 05:20 PM
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I wish vizio would quit with the price spam posts and spend their $$ fixing their newer releases --- how many years have they had to fix basic uniformity problems now?

Their E series may be the best budget tv of the year, but the vizio M series is not doing good at all. Serious screen uniformity issues are popping up all over the place. One owner/vizio fan who upgraded from a 2013 to 2014 even said the 2013M series was better even. I would avoid the M series all together. Hopefully they invest the money wisely with the P series release. I'm sure people would rather the price was a 100$ more and not need to have vertical banding severely degrade their Sunday Football experience.
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post #55 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnycamp5 View Post
I would! Exciting news for sure .


Did the "motion performance" suck last year?

I was under the impression these OLED's had an excellent "refresh rate", as I was looking at one of these for watching my (sports) football games.
Between this and the issue with the "blue pixels", I may wait a while longer .
Oh no, owners of this tv have reported a very good experience when watching sports. LG uses WRGB, Samsung uses the Blue pixel that may have decreased life.
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post #56 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 06:13 PM
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If only it we're 65"s! The price point for this tv is actually pretty good considering the prices last year. Here is to hoping that larger sizes are released next year. Not sure if I can stave off upgraditis much longer.

fdsfds
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post #57 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Premium flat-screen TVs account for about 10% of the overall TV market, or about 20 Million units a year. Last year that was TVs in the $3000 and above price range though this year that premium pricing appears to have come down closer to $2000.


So with some handwaving, TVs costing less than $2000 account for about 90% of the market and TVs costing less than $3000 (or possibly $4000) account for 99% of the market.


So TVs costing more than $3000 (or possibly $4000) represent a full 1% of the market and not 0.01% as you are suggesting.


0.01% of the market represents 20,000 TVs and probably is limited to ultra-large TVs costing $20,000 or more like the 110" Samsung TV, the 85" Sony X950B, and possibly also the 120" Visio Reference Series (which remains unpriced).


Before their pricebreak, LG sold about 4000 OLED TVs in a year, representing 0.002% of the market. With the ~$3500 pricing they are introducing the 55" Gen-2 OLED at, they will increase this market share tremendously and should start reaching market share in the several 0.1% level (100,000s of OLEDs per year).


By 2016, LG wants to sell 1 million OLEDs per year, representing 0.5% of the market. If the Gen-2 products they are introducing are ready for prime time, they are in an excellent position to achieve this by then.


It's not your overall message that is wrong, just the numbers you used - multiply everything by a factor of 10 and you will be much closer to reality...
Wow- that's an exhausting diatribe to fight for tenths of a percent.

First I'd like to see some salient stats to back your claims- and even more crucially, your "stats" don't take into account the % that cannot even afford the $3-$500 sets- certainly not more often than every 5 years or so anyway- so that .01 to 1% gets shredded further.

The end game remains the same: a $3500 television is off the table for the VAST VAST VAST majority of consumers.


Cheaper? Undoubtedly. Practically available to more people? Marginally.

James
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post #58 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
55" Vizio M Series 1080p FALD LED/LCD is priced at $1000 - considered by many to be the best LED/LCD 1080p TV produced this year, it is priced at half the price of the $2000 Micro Center deal (steal) on the 55EA9800.
.
So...its 2x the price
Like I said in my post

btw...I predict Walmart will have "skids' of those Vizio's available for buyers

as far that other paragraph you wrote

statistics show that size is about the most important factor in buying a TV

whether or not that is a "steal" at Microcenter.,.....perhaps it is

or maybe the other outlets want you to pad their bottom line a bit more.....


Warren

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Last edited by turnne1; 08-12-2014 at 07:08 PM.
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post #59 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
Wow- that's an exhausting diatribe to fight for tenths of a percent.

First I'd like to see some salient stats to back your claims- and even more crucially, your "stats" don't take into account the % that cannot even afford the $3-$500 sets- certainly not more often than every 5 years or so anyway- so that .01 to 1% gets shredded further.

The end game remains the same: a $3500 television is off the table for the VAST VAST VAST majority of consumers.


Cheaper? Undoubtedly. Practically available to more people? Marginally.

James
I questioned( and posted) where those came from as well

I agree with your "possible financial market" example

then there is the flipside
there are people that can easily afford it....but they dont see enough difference to spend 2x-3x more and just buy something like the new Vizio FALD
And again...I havent seen the new Vizio M personally
but if its as good as what I have heard ...at that price there will be a line forming
Well...for those that are going to be in the market for a TV this year anyway

I think the Tv industry has about run out of hat tricks and cost cutting measures
The market is so saturated that they want( and need) you back almost annually to buy a TV

any predictions on what company is exiting( for all practical purposes) the TV market next?

Warren

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post #60 of 135 Old 08-12-2014, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
I wish vizio would quit with the price spam posts and spend their $$ fixing their newer releases --- how many years have they had to fix basic uniformity problems now?

Their E series may be the best budget tv of the year, but the vizio M series is not doing good at all. Serious screen uniformity issues are popping up all over the place. One owner/vizio fan who upgraded from a 2013 to 2014 even said the 2013M series was better even. I would avoid the M series all together. Hopefully they invest the money wisely with the P series release. I'm sure people would rather the price was a 100$ more and not need to have vertical banding severely degrade their Sunday Football experience.
You're right about the M-series. I purchased one about two weeks ago Took it back because the picture was not that good my five-year-old E series vizio look better. I purchase a 48 inch E series and I'm happy with it
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