Emissive HDTVs Beat Transmissive UHDTVs in Value Electronics 2014 Shootout - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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Old 08-24-2014, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
Hasn't contrast ratio been considered the biggest factor in pq, at least from the plasma owner?
By everyone who knows anything?

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I agree 100% Mark.
You are a gentleman and a scholar!

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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
As for #2 , although I'm surely no fan of the curve, LG's implementation seems a bit less 'curvaceous' than Samsung's, and I think I can overlook it. I also suspect the curve will be a bit less objectionable in the larger screen size. We shall see.
This is a good point. The curve did feel "gentler" on the bigger sizes in the prototypes.
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Surprisingly #3 is of lesser concern for me. I'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary with OLED owner reports (dead pixels here & there, some IR etc.) that hasn't been a concern with plasma. I know you and I don't necessarily agree about plasma IR, but the concern has been expressed by many and I have seen evidence of it myself, as minor as it may be, with my plasmas.
I can't be concerned with plasma IR because in the past 8 years of plasma ownership, I haven't experienced any. I've never run a screen wipe, never worried about letterbox-bars, never avoided gaming, etc. If I can do the same with an OLED, then I'll consider it a similar non-problem. To me, having to spend 10 seconds thinking about this is a dealbreaker.
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Longevity? Could be a concern for those that plan to hang on to their displays for a long time, but even there the jury is out. For me, in terms of being a 'long-term retainer of displays'? You know me better than that.
To be clear, I don't need 10-15 years either, but given that a 4K OLED should be good enough for both of us to be happy for a long time, the TV should give 5+ years of grief-free performance. If that's not a given, something is very wrong.

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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
If you meet David K in person, you'd know he does not pull punches. However, he also doesn't put his off-the-cuff remarks into print. I don't either, and unless TMZ starts reviewing TVs I don't expect any author/publication will put such thoughts into print. Plus, there obviously is an issue of personal taste—it's quite clear that quite a few people like the curve and buy into the marketing hype.
I'd hate for that kind of logic to be used to make a case. People also like extra megapixels. Those come on noisy sensors that typically yield pictures with lower effective resolution than a better, lower-pixel sensor. They are no measure of quality in any way. If people like the curve because they really want to watch a very slightly distorted image or they are a single portion who sits 5 feet from the TV and feels more "immersed" fine. If they buy into anything else, they are duped. And let's not cheer for being duped.

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However when it comes to black levels & CR, the two things that all calibrators have always told us is the most important aspect of PQ, the OLEDs have no peers. None. But I've noticed that now some people are, 'all of a sudden', pushing the incredible MLLs & CRs of the OLEDs under the table and telling us that their PQ is really not as good as we think because of what I would consider to be issues far down on the PQ list (not saying you Mark). The most valid issue to point to is color, and I'm really not sure, based on what I saw, how serious that issue really is. Since I'm only interested in the 4K OLEDs, we're not even sure if this will be an issue at all with those.

So Mark, to be honest, I'm not impressed with a laundry list of PQ "issues" that may or may not impact many people. I'm more interested in PQ issues that are hard to miss and impact viewing on a 'less than occasionally' basis.

From what I saw at the shootout, the OLED simply had no peers from an overall PQ standpoint...including my own, beloved, F8500.
This feels right to me. It doesn't currently seem close. That said, the pricing is still so far outside the mainstream it doesn't yet matter for the vast majority of people. I suspect P-series Vizios are going to be very popular in the "I want something a bit better, but don't want to pay much more" department for that reason.

But for the videophile, the arrival of 4K OLEDs is a good day to look forward to, indeed.
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 08-24-2014, 07:04 PM
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Listen man, I have to burst your bubble just for your own sake. All ALL consumer grade LCDs suck big fat ,well, you know what, right!? I have never ever seen not even once in my whole life an LCD that would cost under 10 grand and look good at the same time, simultaneously, concurrently and pluralistically (which is the funny way of saying that there's no such thing as a good consumer LCDs ,howbeit I have witnessed on multiple occsuions OLEDs that look even better and cost just 3 large.

Example of a good LCD would be glow-free, uniform with gamut volume of 1,091,504 or about 93 precent of abodeRGB or something like that (your average LCD barely manages over 500,000).

In a side to side comparison colors on well calibrated Macbook pro 2014 appear to be just as natural and saturated as on a 10.5 OLED on tab S, however contrast on Macbook is so low that in dark scenes it looks like sh!!!!it (I encourage you to do your very own comparison though)

15" Display for Mac pro costs three fity (350 bucks) for assembly line http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Apple/6617032/ (they charge extra fity on this site)

and Samsung can already make 11 inchers for one fity (bucks) and one handy for 8.4 receptively and I'm guessin' here that Samsung can make 15inch for 250 or even 200 bucks meaning that good OLEDs can be already cheaper than good LCDs on a small scale which ensues the fact that the OLED take over in the small to mid range high end displays is coming and it coming heavily strapped with lower prices and better PQ. Well, in 2020 I don't feel like we will be seein' a lot of if any LCD displays in high end phones and tablets.
I have never read anything in the entire history of this forum that was so wrong.

A good oled at sizes of larger led have issues just like lcd right now.

A measurement is that. But that doesnt mean it applys in practice.

Clearly if the world agreed with you lcd would not even be an option. It would be only plasmas.

That would suck. Lcd have a place. Apprently beyond that of plasma.

You have no meaurment for personal preference. Except the one where plasma didnt win the war. That shows your measurments and opinion of lcd failed.

Oled is a baby. As they improve it more issues will be fixed. One day we will wonder how we ever had less than an oled.
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Old 08-24-2014, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
I haven't said anything bad about Oled but I have seen LCD owners criticizing oled exactly the same way that they do to Plasma ,but to see a Plasma owner reaction they talk wonders about oled. lol




Specially on this thread...
I have a ST60 (missed out on ZT60 due to procrastination) and an acquaintance of mine has a 55" Samsung OLED and I can tell you right off the bat and with no BS attached that OLED is (slightly) better than plasma not only on paper, but also on in real life on general content.
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Old 08-24-2014, 07:24 PM
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Not quite. It only proves that you still have to read between the lines.
Interesting now that you mention it . I read one of David K's recent reviews on a Sony at Cnet in the comparative opinion section of the review he was extolling the great value of Vizio FALD sets but between the lines it was subtly obvious (< oxymoron ) that he liked the Sony a lot better. I got the impression if given the choice he would spend the extra $$ on the Sony between the two .

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Old 08-24-2014, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
I have a ST60 (missed out on ZT60 due to procrastination) and an acquaintance of mine has a 55" Samsung OLED and I can tell you right off the bat and with no BS attached that OLED is (slightly) better than plasma not only on paper, but also on in real life on general content.
He doesnt believe real world senarios count.

I find my UHD set has a better picture because the calrity.

Personal taste is the most important thing.
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Old 08-24-2014, 07:38 PM
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He doesnt believe real world senarios count.

I find my UHD set has a better picture because the calrity.

Personal taste is the most important thing.
IMO Only picture I've seen comparable to a ZT 60 would have to be an OLED next would be the Sammy f8500
or maybe a Sony 9x none of the other 2K or 4K LCD were in the ZT 60 ball park IMO .

OTOH once more I never really compared the Sony and Samsung 4K either they both looked real good .

OTOH assuming they were all un calibrated in the store and at store torch modes that may not have been the best situation Although I still believe the OLED and ZT 60 would have been top dogs

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Old 08-24-2014, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
Interesting now that you mention it . I read one of David K's recent reviews on a Sony at Cnet in the comparative opinion section of the review he was extolling the great value of Vizio FALD sets but between the lines it was subtly obvious (< oxymoron ) that he liked the Sony a lot better. I got the impression if given the choice he would spend the extra $$ on the Sony between the two .
He also says he cant see 4k and one of his co workers can. He says some really off stuff sometimes.
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Old 08-24-2014, 07:47 PM
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I have never read anything in the entire history of this forum that was so wrong.

A good oled at sizes of larger led have issues just like lcd right now.

A measurement is that. But that doesnt mean it applys in practice.

Clearly if the world agreed with you lcd would not even be an option. It would be only plasmas.

That would suck. Lcd have a place. Apprently beyond that of plasma.

You have no meaurment for personal preference. Except the one where plasma didnt win the war. That shows your measurments and opinion of lcd failed.

Oled is a baby. As they improve it more issues will be fixed. One day we will wonder how we ever had less than an oled.
There's no doubt in my mind that LCD can match plasma or even OLED for that matter if implemented right.

I remember watching a 40-ish inch toshiba LCD IPS with over 500 zones in 2010 was it. It had almost no haloing and side bars in cinema scope Flight Club just blended into the utter darkness of the room TV was in even on low APL scenes. It had really good blacks and contrast and it was only sold for broadcasting for 15 grand (although there might even be a consumer version I don't remember exactly).

This is a good LCD 4k monitor with 100 uniformity and 10 bit IPS panel https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/EI...n/2996314.aspx and it only cost 30 grand..

Look all I'm saying is that (good) OLEDs might cost like 2000 to 3000 dead presidents by 2016 for a 4k TV set and with it you will get unparalleled performance in comparison with the current crop of 4k LCDs and LCDs with the similar performance will most likely still be over 10 grand.

....

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Old 08-24-2014, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
There's no doubt in my mind that LCD can match plasma or even OLED for that matter if implemented right.

I remember watching a 40-ish inch toshiba LCD IPS with over 500 zones in 2010 was it. It had almost no haloing and side bars in cinema scope Flight Club just blended into the utter darkness of the room TV was in even on low APL scenes. It had really good blacks and contrast and it was only sold for broadcasting for 15 grand.

This is a good LCD 4k monitor with 100 uniformity and 10 bit IPS panel https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/EI...n/2996314.aspx and it only cost 30 grand..

Look all I'm saying is that (good) OLEDs might cost like 2000 to 3000 grand by 2016 for a 4k TV set and with it you will get unparalleled performance in comparison with the current crop of 4k LCDs and LCDs with the similar performance will most likely still be over 10 grand.
Yeah they will charge premium on oled for sure.just because they can.

But id pay for an oled with amazing hdr. Imagic has convinced me about that one thing for sure.

I figure if my hu9000 is as good looking as it is now then we are all in for a treat.

The curve aside the picture is top notch. Of course it has some issues but for what it is. Every movie i have watched looks better than ever before to me. So the investment is one id proudly do again.
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Old 08-24-2014, 08:05 PM
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He also says he cant see 4k and one of his co workers can. He says some really off stuff sometimes.
Be that as it may everybody knows he was right on the Sony vs Visio thing ,same thing when he says certain Sony's have better picture than comparable LED Samsung just like they do at Rtings .com

On the 4K thing as it applied to D.K's co worker who knows lots of variables in play there .

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Old 08-24-2014, 10:57 PM
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Yeah they will charge premium on oled for sure.just because they can.

But id pay for an oled with amazing hdr. Imagic has convinced me about that one thing for sure.

I figure if my hu9000 is as good looking as it is now then we are all in for a treat.

The curve aside the picture is top notch. Of course it has some issues but for what it is. Every movie i have watched looks better than ever before to me. So the investment is one id proudly do again.
I have worked with the best LCDs (medical and broadcasting/film-making grade) in the world and none of them can outperform Samsung OLED TV or the best plasmas.

HU9000 is still made using the same materials as some pervious Sammy VA-based LCDs of 2012 and 2013 meaning there isn't much improvement to contrast or black level, response time etc. only improvements to pixel density. I'm not sure how exactly Samsung mix the singles, though, but I'd wager that the molecular structure of their LCDs stayed the same. I'm pretty sure that even moieties stayed the same for there hasn't really been any significant advancements in LCD on a molecular level (alignment layers are still made with rubbing no photo-alignment for this baby).

Here's some info on photo-alignment http://www.j-display.com/english/new.../20140717.html .



By the way I still can't wrap my head around you meant by the following:

A good oled at sizes of larger led have issues just like lcd right now.

A measurement is that. But that doesnt mean it applys in practice.


An passant I've attached pic depicting the pricing of OLED vs LCD. As you can see high-end small-sized OLEDs cost about 16 precent more in 2013 and by now the cost is about the same and by late 2015 OLED will be cheaper than LCD meaning it will start displacing LCD in high end and mid-range small-sized devices.
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Old 08-24-2014, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
I have worked with the best LCDs (medical and broadcasting/film-making grade) in the world and none of them can outperform Samsung OLED TV or the best plasmas.

HU9000 is still made using the same materials as some pervious Sammy VA-based LCDs of 2012 and 2013 meaning there isn't much improvement to contrast or black level, response time etc. only improvements to pixel density. I'm not sure how exactly Samsung mix the singles, though, but I'd wager that the molecular structure of their LCDs stayed the same. I'm pretty sure that even moieties stayed the same for there hasn't really been any significant advancements in LCD on a molecular level (alignment layers are still made with rubbing no photo-alignment for this baby).

Here's some info on photo-alignment http://www.j-display.com/english/new.../20140717.html .



By the way I still can't wrap my head around you meant by the following:

A good oled at sizes of larger led have issues just like lcd right now.

A measurement is that. But that doesnt mean it applys in practice.


An passant I've attached pic depicting the pricing of OLED vs LCD. As you can see high-end small-sized OLEDs cost about 16 precent in 2013 and by now the cost is about the same and by late 2015 OLED will be cheaper than LCD meaning will start displacing LCD in high end and mid-range small-sized devices.
Id put my sets 3d expirience against any movie experience anyone has ever had.
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Old 08-24-2014, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
He doesnt believe real world senarios count.

I find my UHD set has a better picture because the calrity.

Personal taste is the most important thing.
Just remember how "personal taste" can change after learning more about PQ aspects. Lots of testimonies even within AVS forum from people whose personal taste changed from dynamic mode to real calibration for instance, once they got into it and learned more... So the accuracy of reproduction of source material is the real important thing, and once you have that, the "personal taste" pretty much falls into place (as it were)... I don't hear anyone complain about the picture in the movie theater, which is equally calibrated and represents many quality aspects one would seek to achieve on a home screen as well. I don't hear how "personal preferences" are not being met with the accurate picture in a theater, so why would anyone wish their home screen to look anything different (and therefore inaccurate) and call it a personal preference is beyond me...
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Old 08-24-2014, 11:05 PM
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Id put my sets 3d expirience against any movie experience anyone has ever had.
By the way, if you watch your TV in soft lighting or in daylight in that case UH9000 will be as good as plasma or even better than plasma, but plasma will be better in the utter darkness.

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Old 08-24-2014, 11:13 PM
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By the way, if you watch your TV in soft lighting or in daylight in that case UH9000 will be as good as plasma or even better than plasma, but plasma will be better in the utter darkness.
Not in 3d. There is no way to describe an animated film on the hu9000. You have to see one in 3d.

there are 3 i own that really cannot be described by words.

Despicable me2, coraline, and tangled.

Pacific Rim too.

But i have numerous 3d movies. I am a fanatic now.
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Old 08-24-2014, 11:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Id put my sets 3d expirience against any movie experience anyone has ever had.
Your Love for your TV knows no limits. I agree that 3D can be quite excellent, and is often better on a TV than in theaters. However, that boast is a bit much.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com

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Old 08-24-2014, 11:19 PM
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Ironically it's this kind of unfounded 'info' (even if you meant it tongue in cheek) that gave a tech like plasma a bad rap. Now we're in danger of spreading this same kind of nonsense about OLED. And then we wonder why the public doesn't flock to the superior tech as it eventually dies out?

Warning Will Robinson, warning!!
Hmm... I wouldn't exactly classify it as nonsense. OLED's longevity concerns are well documented. Owners here and over at that 'other' forum have documented a litany of complaints from early-onset burn in/uneven wear to stuck pixels to dead panels. Manufacturers such as panasonic have been vocal about their concerns for the long term durability of the panel as well as the potential shift in image quality over time. Despite the lack of attention paid to it the comparatively rapid deterioration of the blue subpixel is still a major issue effecting the longevity of the panel. While LG uses white OLEDs with color filters the truth is each white subpixel is made up of red, green and blue OLEDs which means color shift will still be an issue as the panel ages.

I've been lusting after the LG OLED since I first saw it last year when picking up my VT60 at the local magnolia bestbuy. Talk about taking the wind out of your sails-- imagine my shock as they wheeled out my new plasma and there before me is a display that made mine look very 'last years model'. A month or two ago I stood in micro center with credit card in hand when they were clearing that same panel out at a ridiculous price. At the end of the day I just couldn't trade a mature and proven tech like my VT60 for the untested LG. I've not much interest in being on the bleeding edge of any new tech and while my enthusiasm remains high for OLED I'll sit out and wait until the teething phase has passed. Certainly, OLED represents the single most exciting new advancement in HDTV since the original kuro hit the scene. Hopefully, LG continues to develop it and maybe we'll see some other companies jump in as well.

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Old 08-24-2014, 11:33 PM
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Hmm... I wouldn't exactly classify it as nonsense. OLED's longevity concerns are well documented. Owners here and over at that 'other' forum have documented a litany of complaints from early-onset burn in/uneven wear to stuck pixels to dead panels. Manufacturers such as panasonic have been vocal about their concerns for the long term durability of the panel as well as the dramatic shift in quality over time. Despite the lack of attention paid to it the comparatively rapid deterioration of the blue subpixel is still a major issue effecting the longevity of the panel. While LG uses white OLEDs with color filters the truth is each white subpixel is made up of red, green and blue OLEDs which means color shift will still be an issue as the panel ages.

I've been lusting after the LG OLED since I first saw it last year when picking up my VT60 at the local magnolia bestbuy. Talk about taking the wind out of your sails-- imagine my shock as they wheeled out my new plasma and there before me is a display that made mine look very 'last years model'. A month or two ago I stood in micro center with credit card in hand when they were clearing that same panel out at a ridiculous price. At the end of the day I just couldn't trade a mature and proven tech like my VT60 for the untested LG. I've not much interest in being on the bleeding edge of any new tech and while my enthusiasm remains high for OLED I'll sit out and wait until the teething phase has passed. Certainly, OLED represents the single most exciting new advancement in HDTV since the original kuro hit the scene. Hopefully, LG continues to develop it and maybe we'll see some other companies jump in as well.
There's a very well patented method to solve the uneven lifespan of subpixels issue called doping. The great many strides have been made in that field of as late.

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Old 08-25-2014, 12:14 AM
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Not everyone would agree that best rounded PQ=best PQ. In fact, I'm not even sure what 'best rounded PQ' means.

There are simply too many variables and different weighting factors to make the generalization that plasma PQ is better than OLED PQ. This is simply too subjective and nobody can objectively point to this as scientific fact.

Having now seen 2 calibrated OLEDs in the dark, you can stand on your head and spit nickels and you couldn't change my assertion that OLED is a more impressive picture in a darkened environment. There is simply no plasma in the world, past or present, that has the amazing dynamics of OLED. In fact, until I saw it in the dark, I would never have said this. It IS that good.
Remember, "2+2=4"? Deep blacks + color accuracy + screen uniformity + motion handling + side viewing performance, etc. = "well-rounded" picture quality. OLED's sum comes out high as well, but not yet as high as plasma's. Amazing black levels, definitely, which is a big factor for the impressive PQ of OLED, but from what has been reported, OLED does not beat plasma yet in some of the other aspects.

I have no doubts that OLED blew you away - I have seen it too, and it does easily impress (with black levels in particular). But if you are watching it for an extended time at home and you start noticing motion blur, or PQ deterioration viewed off center, and such, this just might get more "annoying" than slightly lighter yet still deep black levels of a plasma... Just a thought...

Anyway, I repeat that I am very impressed with OLED and can't wait for them to iron out a few early issues that are normal for any new technology that has to mature a little... Great things to come...
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Old 08-25-2014, 12:50 AM
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Well back to topic.... All I can say is brave for those that support Oled right now.

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Old 08-25-2014, 01:00 AM
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Well back to topic I agree with Z-mad, brave for those that support Oled right now.

Since the Gen-2 WOLEDs are just now starting to hit the channels and first owner reports have not even started to trickle in yet, what you and Z-mad are expressing is an uninformed conclusion. A year ago when first customers were buying into Gen-1 WOLEDs and the first user reports were less than stellar, the position you are taking was very much justified.

And it may still be justified one year later as the Gen-2 products are just launching, it is just far too premature to reach that conclusion based on no information.

Check back around Thanksgiving - by then there should be much more known here on the Forum about what (if any) improvements LG has made between Gen-1 and Gen-2...
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:22 AM
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fafrd well if you can tell I was editing my comment while you were typing and posting yours lol.


For now I'm on the safe side with my Plasma.

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Old 08-25-2014, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303
He doesnt believe real world scenarios count.

I find my UHD set has a better picture because the calrity.

Personal taste is the most important thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Z-Mad
Just remember how "personal taste" can change after learning more about PQ aspects. Lots of testimonies even within AVS forum from people whose personal taste changed from dynamic mode to real calibration for instance, once they got into it and learned more... So the accuracy of reproduction of source material is the real important thing,
Strongly agree with Z-Mad .
Exactly as above happened to me here at AVS. I do my own DIY .calibrations on 5 of my sets + a few others now with what I believe are very good fairly accurate results.(after a lot of study and repetitive trial and error not that easy to learn in a hurry ) I use free AVSHD 709 dwnld. for screen images/patterns and videos also much good info to see on that page.

I am not a trained certified expert or expert nor do I claim to be just an enthusiast that can always learn more.

OTOH I would not discourage anyone not going DIY from using a professional certified calibration
technician knowing what I have learned here and based on my personal experience it can certainly
be a valuable service IMO.

I belive The difference is often starling in favor of calibration in almost all cases it was here on my 5 sets and others I've touched for friends and family ( at no charge ofc . other than a cold one when done ☺) Again IMO it's one of those things If you know you know if you don't you don't .

PS : As an added benefit of calibration I almost never 'touch up the picture anymore' only switch from day/night calibrations now and then . I fiddled with picture adjustments frequently and sometimes constantly for decades . It's amazing how much better a calibrated set works with various sources and programs as opposed to constant fiddling with adjustments ,also very understandable when you know how it works .

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Old 08-25-2014, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Z-Mad View Post
I have no doubts that OLED blew you away - I have seen it too, and it does easily impress (with black levels in particular). But if you are watching it for an extended time at home and you start noticing motion blur, or PQ deterioration viewed off center, and such, this just might get more "annoying" than slightly lighter yet still deep black levels of a plasma... Just a thought...
Right. One need to see a TV for a extended period of time at the house so one can make a propper judgement. Impressions can be deceiving..
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Old 08-25-2014, 07:39 AM
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Be that as it may everybody knows he was right on the Sony vs Visio thing ,same thing when he says certain Sony's have better picture than comparable LED Samsung just like they do at Rtings .com

On the 4K thing as it applied to D.K's co worker who knows lots of variables in play there .
He is looking for closest to plasma like performance. That's his rating for LCD. And that's ok. I happen to disagree. But for many that is the goal. So I get it.

I myself have never been into plasma. I also like an upgradable set. The Sony are stuck in time it will never get better. But to each his own. One has a slightly better picture upscaling both are identicle playing 4k content. One is upgradable so he scored them the same.

Again I get. Just not my bag of tea.
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Old 08-25-2014, 07:49 AM
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There's a very well patented method to solve the uneven lifespan of subpixels issue called doping. The great many strides have been made in that field of as late.
While none of this fixes the lifespan, it can help keep them "accurate" as time goes...

I would think the WOLED's could be made tunable. Meaning they adjust as they wear to attempt to hold the same color temp.

Plasmas RGB sub-pixels also wear in uneven, the panel drive attempts to compensate for this over time. It appears the wear rate is calculated by hours on the panel. In fact you can see this in David K's test where he checked black level loss over time. While doing this he also checked white balance and a few other parameters over thousands of hours of plasma usage. You can see the TVs make their adjustments at specific intervals.

http://www.cnet.com/news/update-long...r-second-year/

I recall a thread on tracking pixel use (in time) per sub-pixel. Be kinda crazy to track especially on a 4K TV but an interesting thought.
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Old 08-25-2014, 08:10 AM
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Your Love for your TV knows no limits. I agree that 3D can be quite excellent, and is often better on a TV than in theaters. However, that boast is a bit much.
I don't mean in picture quality. I mean how it can immerse you in a movie. That level of 3d with that crispness. I've only seen the passive lg look as good. But it's not as sharp as my samsung. The lg is a little brighter.

But I say it an odd feeling sitting in the room with a Disney character . I questioned my sobriety . It looks like the digital character decided to step out of the tv and into the room.

The only other movie like tangled in 3d has been Disbicable me 2. The 3d of those 2 films is so ridiculous.

Next level is your pacific rim, ripd, life of pi, thor2.

Then stuff like Star Trek , avatar, avengers, etc. I have oh somewhere around 120 to 130 3d blur-ays.

I make the rounds to my local tradesmart every weekend to see what I can find.

I nearly bought the lg oled 60". But with the 65" curved I get a bigger screen. Jaw dropping picture. And that 3d. I didn't even know movies could have so much depth and still be as clear as a bluray. Not lose and quality.

It really changes things. Especially if you love 3d.

Maybe the lg is your taste because it's passive. But that's it. Those 2 stand alone. And if you have not experienced tangled or despicable me 2 then you just don't understand. It is almost freakish.

I had a similar experience at Disneyland once.
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Old 08-25-2014, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
While none of this fixes the lifespan, it can help keep them "accurate" as time goes...

I would think the WOLED's could be made tunable. Meaning they adjust as they wear to attempt to hold the same color temp.

Plasmas RGB sub-pixels also wear in uneven, the panel drive attempts to compensate for this over time. It appears the wear rate is calculated by hours on the panel. In fact you can see this in David K's test where he checked black level loss over time. While doing this he also checked white balance and a few other parameters over thousands of hours of plasma usage. You can see the TVs make their adjustments at specific intervals.

http://www.cnet.com/news/update-long...r-second-year/

I recall a thread on tracking pixel use (in time) per sub-pixel. Be kinda crazy to track especially on a 4K TV but an interesting thought.

That is correct. The driver IC's for Plasma evolved to have *per-pixel* history to compensate for wear. Most people are simply oblivious that even the last-gen plasma panels decay, but the drive electronics do a good job of compensating. We are designing the very same thing into OLED drivers. In fact, you could say some of the 'knowledge' gained from plasma evolution is being used to advance OLED.


Plasma just cannot compete in today's market -- period. Those on this forum who claim the 'value' of plasma are basing that 'value' on an *erroneous* data point: the cost of plasma TV's (to the consumer) was on an unsustainable level -- plasma TV's have been sold at a loss to the manufacturers for several years. The manufacturers were doing their best to squeeze the most out of their production line/equipment investment. Unless the manufacturers wanted to turn into charities, this model simply could not be sustained.


If you want to argue 'value', then IMO make that argument against a technology that can continue to compete in the market.


-Jon
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Old 08-25-2014, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Z-Mad View Post
Just remember how "personal taste" can change after learning more about PQ aspects. Lots of testimonies even within AVS forum from people whose personal taste changed from dynamic mode to real calibration for instance, once they got into it and learned more... So the accuracy of reproduction of source material is the real important thing, and once you have that, the "personal taste" pretty much falls into place (as it were)... I don't hear anyone complain about the picture in the movie theater, which is equally calibrated and represents many quality aspects one would seek to achieve on a home screen as well. I don't hear how "personal preferences" are not being met with the accurate picture in a theater, so why would anyone wish their home screen to look anything different (and therefore inaccurate) and call it a personal preference is beyond me...
Nor do we hear anyone complaining about black levels in the movie theater, yet those black levels would be rated 'poor' in comparison to today's best home displays. Interesting.

It also makes me think about new standards or 'improvements' like HDR or Rec2020. Certainly what we see in the movie theater is not HDR, since no theater projection system can come close to the light output necessary for HDR. Yet nobody complains about that. Interesting.

Similarly, it seems to me that our calibrated home displays come very close to the color we see in the movie theaters. Yet nobody complains about movie theater color not having a broad enough color palette or Rec709 falling short of what we see at home and how closely it matches those same movie theater presentations. Interesting.

Just food for thought...if you're hungry.
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Old 08-25-2014, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Nor do we hear anyone complaining about black levels in the movie theater, yet those black levels would be rated 'poor' in comparison to today's best home displays. Interesting.

It also makes me think about new standards or 'improvements' like HDR or Rec2020. Certainly what we see in the movie theater is not HDR, since no theater projection system can come close to the light output necessary for HDR. Yet nobody complains about that. Interesting.

Similarly, it seems to me that our calibrated home displays come very close to the color we see in the movie theaters. Yet nobody complains about movie theater color not having a broad enough color palette or Rec709 falling short of what we see at home and how closely it matches those same movie theater presentations. Interesting.

Just food for thought...if you're hungry.
Interesting points. Personally, movie theater black levels are a real issue for me. The limited color space of rec. 709 is not. That's one of the reasons I prefer watching movies at home.
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Last edited by imagic; 08-25-2014 at 10:03 AM.
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