LG UHD/4K OLED TVs to Hit the Market This Year - AVS Forum
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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LG UHD/4K OLED TVs to Hit the Market This Year



The long-awaited UHD/4K OLED TVs from LG are finally poised to enter the flat-panel market. Gentlemen, open your checkbooks!

LG Electronics announced today that its highly anticipated UHD/4K OLED TVs will soon be available to purchase. Available in screen sizes of 65 and 77 inches, the 65EC9700 and 77EG9700 combine UHD resolution (3840x2160) with OLED emissive display technology. This offers clear advantages over LCD transmissive technology, as demonstrated by the recent Value Electronics flat-panel shootout, in which LG's new 55-inch 55EC9300 OLED tied for first place in the popular vote with the Samsung PN65F8500 plasma, another emissive display. The calibrators unanimously chose the 55-inch Samsung KN55S9C OLED as their favorite display in the shootout, leaving all the UHD/4K LCD TVs in the dust, even with their higher resolution and much-larger screens.

As you might expect, both of the new LG OLED TVs are curved, which is certainly not popular among AVS members, but the curve is more gentle than that used by Samsung, and the new models can be wall-mounted. Another differentiating factor is that LG uses white, red, green, and blue (WRGB) subpixels with color filters in its OLEDs, while Samsung uses red, green, and blue subpixels without color filters. The relative merits of each approach can be debated all day, but at the VE shootout, the LG was judged to have a wider viewing angle, better blacks and contrast, and better picture quality in high ambient light, while the Samsung had better color accuracy, gamma tracking, and motion resolution. (The F8500 plasma trounced both OLEDs in color accuracy and motion resolution.)

Of course, such comparisons are more or less moot at this point, since Samsung seems to have backed away from developing new OLED TVs, while LG is forging ahead at full speed. Do the new models improve on the 55EC9300's color accuracy and motion resolution? The only way to know is to see for ourselves, and that opportunity will soon present itself as they enter the market. Pre-orders will begin in Korea this week, and LG is firm in its commitment to bring these sets to the US before the end of the year.

Precise availability and pricing have not yet been officially announced, but according to a story at Mashable.com, the 65-inch model will start shipping in Korea, Europe, and North America next month, with the 77-incher becoming available later in the year. Also reported in that story is the list price of the 65EC9700, at least in Korea—12 million won, or $11,769 at today's exchange rate. That's a lot of dough, and the 77EG9700 is bound to be several times that amount, but given that the new 55EC9300 lists for "only" $3500, I have high hopes that prices for the larger sets will drop over time.

So, are you ready to take the UHD/4K OLED plunge? Or are you going to wait for prices to come down, screens to flatten, and certain picture-quality issues to be improved before opening your checkbook?

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Old 08-25-2014, 01:51 PM
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and this, imo, represents the start of the UHD revolution. there is finally a way to get UHD and upgrade your tv at the same time.
it's still too pricey for me, especially considering I have no need for a new tv at the moment. but it represents the starting point from which prices will drop and my interest will increase. I don't mind the thought of my next tv being a UHD oled. and hopefully by then we'll have some physical media I can buy to play on it too1



PS, do you think manufacturers should advertise a spec for the amount of curve? I think it would be pretty useful if they published the focal distance, as I personally would only even consider a curved display if I was able to sit inside that focal distance/focal cone.

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Old 08-25-2014, 01:55 PM
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I have to say that reading the forums I was biased against curved TVs. I spent a bit of time at Best Buy and was actually pleased with the curved screen at larger sizes. I found going from a curved to flat screen to be a peculiar experience. I tended to prefer the curved screen and found it more "immersive". I don't know if I'll get that same feeling every time or with prolonged watching.

Nevertheless, I still view UHD and OLED as a new entry technology that will take pretty radical year on year pricing cuts. For at least the next 3-5 years, I expect the price/performance ratio to continue to increase.

Because of that, I got the best Plasma deal I could find and won't be touching OLED or UHD for probably 5-7 years.

At that point, I feel the technology, HDMI 2.0 specs, and value will be at the point where it's worth making the plunge into that technology.
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:56 PM
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I'll be waiting a year or two to buy an OLED, for prices to come down, technology to mature, and for actual 4k content to be released. And it definitely has to be a flat screen.
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:56 PM
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Even if the 65 inch model comes down to the $8000 price range during the holidays, that is still too steep for me. Probably hold off for 2 to 3 years and hope the 4K standards all get worked out. However, I will still drool every time I walk past one. Instead of saying "mmmmmm doughnuts" I will be saying "mmmmmmm OLED"

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Old 08-25-2014, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Even if the 65 inch model comes down to the $8000 price range during the holidays, that is still too steep for me. Probably hold off for 2 to 3 years and hope the 4K standards all get worked out. However, I will still drool every time I walk past one. Instead of saying "mmmmmm doughnuts" I will be saying "mmmmmmm OLED"

The 65EC9700 is already available in the US for a pre-release pre-order street price of $6250. By the Holidays, prices will likely be below $6000 and possibly approaching $5000...
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Old 08-25-2014, 02:06 PM
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The 65" is already in pre-order status for a lot less than what was mentioned in the article. I don't take these prices too seriously at this point.

Edit: Fafrd beat me by 2 minutes.
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Old 08-25-2014, 02:06 PM
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65" is listed for less try 6k range... at cleavland plasma as pre order.
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Old 08-25-2014, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
The 65EC9700 is already available in the US for a pre-release pre-order street price of $6250. By the Holidays, prices will likely be below $6000 and possibly approaching $5000...
Thanks. Even at $5000, too steep for me.
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Old 08-25-2014, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Thanks. Even at $5000, too steep for me.

Fair enough. Suppose that means that you fall more into the '1.1X the price of LED/LCD' camp rather than the '1.5X price of LED/LCD' camp: What premium would you pay for OLED?
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Old 08-25-2014, 02:44 PM
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If they were real smart they should start now that it's Football season.
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Old 08-25-2014, 02:48 PM
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If I had $5000 lying around, I would seriously consider buying one. But reality says not yet. Hopefully now that Sony/Panasonic are back in the game with the new JOLED venture, we will see more options and more attainable prices within the next couple of years. Though for now it seems that JOLED may be aimed at smaller displays. Maybe CEDIA will have more info.

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Old 08-25-2014, 02:49 PM
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A big criticsm of LG's new 55-inch 55EC9300 OLED is that you cannot tun off DNR. Is that possible in the new sets coming out described above?! Thanks.

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Old 08-25-2014, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Fair enough. Suppose that means that you fall more into the '1.1X the price of LED/LCD' camp rather than the '1.5X price of LED/LCD' camp: What premium would you pay for OLED?


For me personally, I don't think I would pay any premium since the technology in my mind is still unproven. Nevermind that there is no 4K content. Granted I haven't followed OLED as closely as I used to, but I seem to remember issues with certain colors dying off faster than the rest. I also remember promises of being able to "print" oled screens of any size like an inkjet printer. Anyway, I want to see the price down where everyone can buy them and they can really get put through their paces. I'm not willing to be an early adopter again at any premium.
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Old 08-25-2014, 02:53 PM
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My math might not be 100% correct, but if we took the pixel density of the LG G3, 538 ppi (5.5" screen, 1440 x 2560 resolution), and made a 60" TV with the same sized pixels, we'd have a resolution of 15,709 x 27,927.

4K?? Bah, that's nuthin'! I'm holding out for 28K!!
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Old 08-25-2014, 02:54 PM
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Past post here on the AVS forum and on internet sites place the price of the 65EC9700 at $6,999, with suggestions in the forum that it can be purcased by AVS sponsors for $6,250.

Also, when will the non-curve models be available? Did LG actually do consumer testing prior to release (marketing peope? It must have.), and the focus groups liked the curve model better?!
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Old 08-25-2014, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
and this, imo, represents the start of the UHD revolution. there is finally a way to get UHD and upgrade your tv at the same time.
it's still too pricey for me, especially considering I have no need for a new tv at the moment. but it represents the starting point from which prices will drop and my interest will increase. I don't mind the thought of my next tv being a UHD oled. and hopefully by then we'll have some physical media I can buy to play on it too1



PS, do you think manufacturers should advertise a spec for the amount of curve? I think it would be pretty useful if they published the focal distance, as I personally would only even consider a curved display if I was able to sit inside that focal distance/focal cone.

Apparently coming sets will have the capability of changing between curve and flat at the touch of a button.
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Old 08-25-2014, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jeonunh View Post
For me personally, I don't think I would pay any premium since the technology in my mind is still unproven. Nevermind that there is no 4K content. Granted I haven't followed OLED as closely as I used to, but I seem to remember issues with certain colors dying off faster than the rest. I also remember promises of being able to "print" oled screens of any size like an inkjet printer. Anyway, I want to see the price down where everyone can buy them and they can really get put through their paces. I'm not willing to be an early adopter again at any premium.

Well, that would put you in the '1.0X the price of LED/LCD' camp then :-)


With any luck, 2016 could be your year!
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Old 08-25-2014, 03:01 PM
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For me personally, I don't think I would pay any premium since the technology in my mind is still unproven. Nevermind that there is no 4K content. Granted I haven't followed OLED as closely as I used to, but I seem to remember issues with certain colors dying off faster than the rest. I also remember promises of being able to "print" oled screens of any size like an inkjet printer. Anyway, I want to see the price down where everyone can buy them and they can really get put through their paces. I'm not willing to be an early adopter again at any premium.
The blue phsophors dying off quicker is no longer an issue with the new 65" set coming out due to new technology according to Value Electronic's president Robert Zohn.

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Old 08-25-2014, 03:01 PM
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Fair enough. Suppose that means that you fall more into the '1.1X the price of LED/LCD' camp rather than the '1.5X price of LED/LCD' camp: What premium would you pay for OLED?
for me that's totally off. I'd pay 5x the price of edgelit led for oled. the question is how much more I'm willing to pay than plasma

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Old 08-25-2014, 03:04 PM
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for me that's totally off. I'd pay 5x the price of edgelit led for oled. the question is how much more I'm willing to pay than plasma

There are no 2014 plasmas (let alone 2015 plasmas, which is what the poll was really asking about).

The only option consumers for a new TV will have to choose between going forward is OLED or LED/LCD (of both the ELPD and FALD variety, at least for now :-).
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Old 08-25-2014, 03:12 PM
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There are no 2014 plasmas (let alone 2015 plasmas, which is what the poll was really asking about).

The only option consumers for a new TV will have to choose between going forward is OLED or LED/LCD (of both the ELPD and FALD variety, at least for now :-).
I made a post in your poll that explains my thoughts.


basically lcd isn't an option I would ever consider(unless they drastically change the direction they have been going the past 5 or so years) for a 'main' display. so for ME, asking what premium I'd pay over lcd, is about as relevant as asking what premium I'd pay over DLP, or CRT. as long as their are plasmas to be had, they will be chosen over lcd. and there are several 2014 plasmas to choose from right now.


in the end, there's really only one question, and that is how cheap does oled need to be before I replace my existing TV's. even if lcd's magically became 15dollars to buy, I'm not going to 'waste' 15dollars to get an inferior picture quality to what I already have. since oled is the only currently developing technology that has promise to surpass plasma picture quality, it's the only upgrade option.

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Old 08-25-2014, 03:20 PM
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yah... time for a new Monitor.

now where do I get the money?

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Old 08-25-2014, 03:25 PM
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I made a post in your poll that explains my thoughts.


basically lcd isn't an option I would ever consider(unless they drastically change the direction they have been going the past 5 or so years) for a 'main' display. so for ME, asking what premium I'd pay over lcd, is about as relevant as asking what premium I'd pay over DLP, or CRT. as long as their are plasmas to be had, they will be chosen over lcd. and there are several 2014 plasmas to choose from right now.


in the end, there's really only one question, and that is how cheap does oled need to be before I replace my existing TV's. even if lcd's magically became 15dollars to buy, I'm not going to 'waste' 15dollars to get an inferior picture quality to what I already have. since oled is the only currently developing technology that has promise to surpass plasma picture quality, it's the only upgrade option.

Totally understand where you are coming from. You are perfectly content with your current plasma and see no reason to change. You don't need a larger screen, or higher resolution, or an improvement in any area of PQ.


So you really belong in the 'I will never buy an OLD' camp (though I should have written it differently - perhaps 'I'm perfectly happy with my current TV and see no reason to purchase an OLED'


The real question for you is, when your current plasma has died and there are no replacements available, assuming you decide to stick with flatscreen and not go for a projector, how much more would you be willing to pay for an OLED over an equal-sized LED/LCD.


From what you have expressed, I would think the most appropriate answer might be 'no limit'
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Old 08-25-2014, 03:38 PM
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Totally understand where you are coming from. You are perfectly content with your current plasma and see no reason to change. You don't need a larger screen, or higher resolution, or an improvement in any area of PQ.


So you really belong in the 'I will never buy an OLD' camp (though I should have written it differently - perhaps 'I'm perfectly happy with my current TV and see no reason to purchase an OLED'


The real question for you is, when your current plasma has died and there are no replacements available, assuming you decide to stick with flatscreen and not go for a projector, how much more would you be willing to pay for an OLED over an equal-sized LED/LCD.


From what you have expressed, I would think the most appropriate answer might be 'no limit'
yeah that might be right. I will definitely buy an oled though, it's just got to be less expensive. regardless of how expensive or cheap the other options are, it's all about oled reaching a price point that makes me want to get rid of one of my fully functioning TV's.


as for your last question, I've already gone projector, and see nothing in the immediate future that would make me go back. if my f8500 died in the future when no other plasma was available, I would probably buy the largest oled I could afford. or, I'd buy a used plasma, or I'd move the plasma from my living room back into my theater. if I ever got to the point where I was legitimately forced to put an lcd in my theater room, I'd probably look for a cheap, 'fat', one that still had decent uniformity, and just rely on the projector for 100% of my dark room viewing needs.


I still say though, the price of lcd is pretty irrelevant to my buying decisions. either I can afford oled(in which case I would buy one, at any premium), or I can't(in which case I'd have to get a cheap lcd to last me until I could afford one). the end.
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Old 08-25-2014, 03:48 PM
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Fair enough. Suppose that means that you fall more into the '1.1X the price of LED/LCD' camp rather than the '1.5X price of LED/LCD' camp: What premium would you pay for OLED?
Considering I bought a Samsung 64F8500 last January, there is no rush to buy. I would hope in 2 to 3 years I will be able to buy a 65 inch OLED for the price I paid for my Samsung. I'd figure I would let the early adopters pay the premium price for being first. Why pay $6000 for a 65 inch 2014 OLED tv, when perhaps in 2017 I will be able to pay $3000 for a 2017 model of the same size tv with uniform 4K standards.
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Old 08-25-2014, 03:55 PM
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Acknowledging that the LG will have 4K, which no plasma had, I think it's fair to call $6000+ "twice what a really good 65-inch plasma has cost for a couple of years now."

That doesn't make it unreasonable (see 4K LCD pricing for unreasonable!) but it does make it about twice what a videophile was paying for a 65-inch (near) top end model since at least 2012.

Now, that said, it's not impossible to imagine $6000+ becoming $4000+ within a year or (probably) two. We've gotten to watch the 55-inch come down the price curve not because it was selling and pushing volume efficiencies, but because it wasn't selling and had to see its price lowered to move at all. Fortunately, LG is also getting better at making it, but nowhere near as fast as if it were selling more of them.

Whether we get a ~40% drop between now and 2015, I don't know. That we get one between now and 2016, though, feels like as close to a given as you get in this kind of thing. Once a 4K, 65-inch OLED is around $4000, it's close enough to "what a really good 65-inch plasma used to cost" that I think we can call it price parity -- adjusting for 4K, acknowledging you'll save $20-50 annually on electricity, etc.

The wait will be frustrating for many, but that you can see it coming to an end is a huge step.

(Note: I am waiting for the 77-inch to be for sale for perhaps $6000. I expect I'll wait until 2017.)
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 08-25-2014, 04:00 PM
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I will wait for another model year as I am not convinced that this is a real smart buy right now. Too new of a tech for me. I am more than happy with what I have. Plus, I will not buy a curved set.
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Old 08-25-2014, 04:19 PM
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Interesting. SWMBO doesn't mind how much I spend as long the new set is not curved. No sale for moi.
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Old 08-25-2014, 04:34 PM
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At any rate, I think it's fair to say oled has progressed much faster than expected. How many people at the beginning of the year believed that by August a 65" 4k OLED could be had for around $6000? I remember it took forever for plasma prices to come down from orbit to the troposphere.
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