Maximizing PQ on a $2500 plasma display - tweaking the Akai PDP4294 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 412 Old 01-22-2004, 11:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by spiderhug
My picture does not take up the entire screen area. There is about a half an inch on the left hand side of the screen that remains black. As if the picture was shifted to the right a bit. It's consistant throughout all of the aspects: wide, panorama, zoom. In the zoom mode I feel like moving the joystick to the left a bit to compensate but it doesn't do it.

Is there a setting in the SM that governs the position of the screen. It seems like it would be vpos or hpos in menu 10 but tweaking those doesn't do anything to adjust it either vertically or horizontally.

ElvisIncognito, you've probably messed with your settings more than anyone else here. Have you stumbled across any setting that adjusts the picture on the screen.
Try H POSITION and/or V POSITION in Menu 5.
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post #182 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 01:37 AM
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Elvis,
Menu 5 did not work either. I still haven't tried plugging my pc to it. Maybe the user settings in that mode will do it.

Jojo,
I think we are getting closer! Setting all those parameters to zero certainly helped out my DVD picture a lot. Not perfect, but almost as good as my old 4290. I think we may have something here.

Let's keep the suggestions coming!
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post #183 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 05:38 AM
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JoJo,

I gave it a try and did not notice any thing - user settings seemed to make the most diff. from your list. Maybe I have an untrained eye...definition of ringing is???
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post #184 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 05:44 AM
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I am using the default Samsung settings and My contrast, brightness etc. settings are set with Avia. Also using a DVI cable and my picture looks great to me. I don't have a trained eye though.
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post #185 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 05:54 AM
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its all very subjective, I guess you gotta set it to what looks good to you.I`ve been watching this nbc hd feed since yesterday,so now nothing else can match that high water mark.DVI looks terriable on mine no matter what i send it.picking up the towel. jj
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post #186 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 06:37 AM
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JoJo - When you posted suggestions to Menu 7, were your other settings samsung defaults or ??

I am not ready just yet to give up...gonna spend time with it this weekend.
One thing that I can't get off my mind...if I spend this much time tweaking a "better" plasma what an amazing image I would have....makes you wonder.
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post #187 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 06:59 AM
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YES started from where it was in the very beginning.Ringing to me is thats super bright halo in peoples eyes around edges. I like to adjust , while looking at faces ,they seem to reveal subtle changes of shading ,shadows,whereas the eyes show the ringing. does this sound crazy. hell i don't even know what i`m looking at anymore.
I went to Ken Kranes upscale video store yesterday,I stared at all the plasmas for an hour,All I can tell you is at times on brighter feeds this akai looks as good as a PIO elite ,looks just like the toshibia.but in the shadows this akai struggles .can you live with it ,thats the decision we all gotta make. jj
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post #188 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 08:30 AM
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Just ordered one of these panels (no costco nearby). But after spending all morning going through this thread was about ready to cancel the order. Seems like way too much horsin' around for me. Glad to see it is tweakable for an acceptable picture. I see most of the bitches concern posterization. .
Quote:
in the shadows this akai struggles .can you live with it ,thats the decision we all gotta make
But the specs say 1200:1 CR, not 4000:1 like a panny. I mean maybe that's the best 1200:1 can get? It's like trying to change a Yugo into a Cadillac. I mean, c'mon. Ya gets what ya pay for.

I'm watching HD now via dvi on Sammy 172w(ide) lcd flat panel with only 400:1 CR and although I think the blacks and shadows could be better, I've been quite happy with HD PQ. See no reason to discover the SM and screw things up. HTPC set up is ATI AIW 9700 Pro w/ Fusion II. Will have both panels connected using ATI's 'hydravision" technique. I'll be using Akai mainly for HD and DVD's. Don't know as yet if I'll keep current lcd monitor connected via dvi or switch to vga and give the dvi to the Akai. ATI sells (ordered) a HDTV cable and a "dongle" component out adapter with dip switches for 1080i, 720, etc. Now if this Akai looks a little better with HD and DVD than my existing lcd monitor I'll be happy. Figured I'd get this budget panel to play around with until HD3 dlp tv's come out in the fall anyway.

In the interim I would like to put the Akai in the living room, but if PQ is not nearly as good as our 9 year old $300 27" Daewoo 4:3 crt set, wife will pitch a bitch. When I'm gone during the week she watches Lifetime darn near 24/7. That is certainly not in HD. Akai would be connected via S-video to Sony DirecTv box. Eventually I want to get HD service but for now neither I nor you want to listen to her complain. Will that little Lifetime logo in right lower corner burn in? I don't know, I wanted a plasma because I heard it had great PQ and thought it would be cool to hang on the wall. But re-thinking now, I think it's not for us. comments?

Too late to cancel. Order has been delivered to trucking company. Should be here next week. I best not have wasted my money. Maybe I could refuse delivery? Y'know we were also looking at LCD rptvs. Maybe should have just gotten one of those. But got tired of constantly reading about "crop circles", "blotches", "aliens", overheating, blown bulbs, etc.

Anyone got a chill pill? Alkaseltzer? Are we family here? Will I be ok? Why am I starting to feel ill?
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post #189 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 08:48 AM
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I was going to ask the same thing. I have a DVD recorder that does have inputs, firewire, component, Svid and composite. I too was thinking about running all feeds through this into the AKAi via my Prog Scan out on the DVD. Would running the feeds through the recorder then into the Akai produce better results than going Svid form my DISH reciever? I ahven't gotten my screen yet, need to wait until Friday to pick mine up. Better still be some by then. I want to save the extra $200.

Andre [/b][/quote]


Anyone have any input on using this connection to feed the Plasma? I am picking up my unit tonight!!:)
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post #190 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 09:10 AM
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jojo,

Don't throw in the towel yet. Wipe your brow with it and put it back down. Even I think there's still hope.

One other thing that I did that I forgot to post is the following:
Once I set all my menu7 settings to jojos the picture looked alot more detailed but the color was still very bland.

I then went to menu 9 and in "auto color" instead of hitting the joystick to the left or right I pressed it DOWN. This did an automatic color correction and, like magic, made the picture look WAY better.

I don't know if anyone else has tried this already.
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post #191 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
I tried two things that seem to have made my wife and I extremely happy.
Quote:
1) Menu 9: lowered G/Y Offset to 40-42 range down from 48 on Samsung sm settings. JoJo suggested this and seems to have teased out some more detail of the dark areas with out washing out the picture.
I have been trying to tell you guys about this for days. I am glad someone finally agrees with me. The thing is that this will only affect a progressive component input, not composite or svid since that menu only pertains to progressive component.
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post #192 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 09:20 AM
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Later on could someone please post final optimum settings? I won't be needing it until next week when mine arrives but don't want to re-read umpteen hundred posts. I take it we use Elvis's Sammy SM settings with minor adjustments depending on which input we are using. Correct? I realise no one has calibrated eye balls and everyone sees things a little differently. But I'd like to get in the ball park. thanks. tb
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post #193 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 09:24 AM
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I am still surprised to see...1-How many people write "We just picked up our X-Brand last night, and yuck.... Or, 2-I'm thinking of 'trading-up' my X-Brand for this, what do you think? What is trading up anyway...a policy loophole? Instant gratification drives me, and I am not a big fan of e-tailers, but I'll comb these threads completely, and ask what might be a "stupid ?" before buying ANY brand at ANY B&M or e-tailer in the future. PQ problems, dealer insight, service issues/nightmares of early adopters are what start these great threads, filled with testing, knowledge and hard knocks. Why find this forum a day after purchase, but not one before? Kitty Direct and the rest of the refurb sellers are gonna have their warehouses full when the current promos are over...Then again I think that was another thread, shortly after the last promo. Thanks again to the tireless testers and early adopters for their continued free services to us. You are usually "right on". ;)
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post #194 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Kitty Direct and the rest of the refurb sellers are gonna have their warehouses full when the current promos are over...
That's where mine's coming from. Lord help me.
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post #195 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 09:50 AM
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They type of connection you use plays a big part in what type of picture you get. Don't you have to use Component cables or better for HD ?
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post #196 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 09:54 AM
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Griz,
If you can save a few bucks...good for you. Just know what your getting (and now probably from where it came..hehe). You can learn alot about the panel here.
Ann
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post #197 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MSC
They type of connection you use plays a big part in what type of picture you get. Don't you have to use Component cables or better for HD ?
Yes you need component or better (VGA, DVI) for a progressive signal to be sent to any "HD" unit.
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post #198 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 10:14 AM
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Your right of course. I'll just enjoy it for what it is right along with everyone else here. Had hopes of impressing my ol' man (75) who just bought a dlp set. btw-love your installation pic. very nice. If you can imagine a bearded 51 year old computer geek's small trashed out upstairs flat (shack), littered with computer parts, magazines and a couple of dozen half empty beer bottles, that's where it will be. (lovely thought, isn't it?) you married? (ha)
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post #199 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 10:18 AM
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I then went to menu 9 and in "auto color" instead of hitting the joystick to the left or right I pressed it DOWN. This did an automatic color correction and, like magic, made the picture look WAY better.
Odd...I was going to warn people NOT to do that. I can't recall if I pushed it L/R or down....When I tried that last night just for the hell of it the whole image got freaked out and colors seem to have been reversed. I watched a few minutes of the DVD and I laughed about it - wondering how could anyone put on such a F***ed up menu choice...turned it off and set my menu 9 settings back to what I had.

I will set all my sm settings to default tonight and try the auto color again.
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post #200 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 12:20 PM
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I tried it to and got franz man`s results.
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post #201 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 12:22 PM
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spider it does kinda lower the pop but thats what i was trying to do is get rid of that shinny apearence. jj
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post #202 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 12:56 PM
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on your computer display,take a 870k bite jpg . or their abouts, set you monitor to 256 colors, the result is what you see on my akai. jj
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post #203 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Will review & respond to some of the new posts/questions/comments later, but I wanted to post my grayscale/sharpness test pattern in case anyone wants to play around with it.

The .ZIP file has .BMP, .TIF and .GIF versions of the test pattern. Burn them to a CD or DVD and attempt to bring them up. The order I typed them is the preferred order - use the GIF only if the bitmap or TIFF won't work for you.

These images are 852 x 480 - native rez for the Akai panel. The top/bottom/left/right borders are alternating black (R0/G0/B0) and white (R255/G255/B255) bars for setting detail/comb filter/sharpness - increase sharpness til the bars look edgy, then back off just enough to make that go away.

In the center, you should see 8 rows of 16 squares each. The upper left square is R0/G0/B0. The next square to the right is R2/G2/B2, followed by R4/G4/B4, etc. until you get to the bottom left square, which is R254/G254/B254. If you can see a difference between this box, and the white bars (in the sharpness scale) directly below it, you're in really good shape on your whites. If you see 8 rows of 8 rectangles, you have some adjusting to do. Likewise if the darkest/brightest section(s) appear to be big, long rectangles (3+ squares combined) you have some brightness/white balance/black gain/white gain issues.

In general, if you can get it to where you can distinctly see all 128 individual SQUARES by adjusting contrast and brightness - either in your user settings or in the Main VCD, or DNIe service menus (you may also want to have a look at Black Gain and White Gain in DNIe menu) or both - then you should have grayscale really well calibrated (and posterization should be improved as a result.)

I won't get around to playing with this (or more tweaking) until after this weekend - hopefully by then, somebody will have posted optimized grayscale settings.

Happy tweaking...

 

grayscale_test_pattern.zip 101.3203125k . file
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post #204 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by spiderhug
Elvis,
Menu 5 did not work either.
Check out this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...49#post1782749

That guy was having the same problem & says he fixed it. (Unfortunately, he also says the setting is in the first menu, but that's the comb filter... No H/V POS settings there, AFAIK... Maybe you could PM him for further guidance. Good luck!
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post #205 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by jojo57
ok somebody try this :
ce upper/0
ce cutoff/0
ce gain/0
dce gain/0
de noise gain/0
cti gain/0
user settings:
contrast 34
brightness 60
sharpness 0
color 40
tint 50/50
no fix for posterization, but helps ringing,try it post back. jj
I tried this last night. My wife wanted to watch Groundhog Day (always cheers us up when we're feeling down :)) which isn't the best disc for evaluating PQ, so I couldn't really tell if this helped much, but it certainly didn't hurt...
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post #206 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by franz-man
One question that I keep forgetting to ask and I can't find a setting to reduce this and it seems to only pertain to Nemo - bugs the crap out of me.
In some of the scenes there is a wicked halo of glow around Marlin and Dory. When I watched this in the theaters I did not notice...when I watched on Panny in CC and Conn's I did not notice...kinda confused.
You may not have noticed, but the halos were there. Check out this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...i&pagenumber=3
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post #207 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Note that I have reformatted the list of service menu default settings, simulating (as closely as possible on this forum) a table format. This should make it easier to see, at a glance, which setting applies to which input. Hopefully it will also print out better. :)
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post #208 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by grizzledbiker
after spending all morning going through this thread was about ready to cancel the order. Seems like way too much horsin' around for me. Glad to see it is tweakable for an acceptable picture.
Not acceptable... GOOD. A lot of us are VERY demanding... We want $4K Panny-esque PQ from a bargain $2500 PDP, and we're willing to fiddle w/this thing 'til we get it.

When yours arrives, simply print out the first page of this thread, set the user settings per the 2nd post (or run through a complete Avia or DVE video calibration) then follow the directions to bring up the service menu and adjust as necessary all factory default values to match the defaults from the Samsung service manual. You may be quite happy with it at that point. Several people have been.

From there, if you want to apply additional (DNIe) s.m. tweaks, go for it - you can always go back.[quote][b]I see most of the bitches concern posterization. . But the specs say 1200:1 CR, not 4000:1 like a panny. I mean maybe that's the best 1200:1 can get? It's like trying to change a Yugo into a Cadillac. I mean, c'mon. Ya gets what ya pay for. [quote][b]Yes, posterization is this set's biggest problem. The thing is, posterization is not bad at all with an HD source; what we all hope to do is reduce posterization form 480i and 480p sources to the minimal level seen with an HD signal.
Quote:
I'm watching HD now via dvi on Sammy 172w(ide) lcd flat panel with only 400:1 CR and although I think the blacks and shadows could be better, I've been quite happy with HD PQ.
I'm a CRT projector owner - best shadow detail in the world - and I'm satisfied with shadow detail on this set. Again, some people are very, very picky.
Quote:
if PQ is not nearly as good as our 9 year old $300 27" Daewoo 4:3 crt set, wife will pitch a bitch.

Anyone got a chill pill? Alkaseltzer? Are we family here? Will I be ok? Why am I starting to feel ill?
Relax. I think both you and your wife will be happy enough.
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post #209 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by grizzledbiker
I take it we use Elvis's Sammy SM settings with minor adjustments depending on which input we are using. Correct?
You got it.
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post #210 of 412 Old 01-23-2004, 03:42 PM
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I`m amazed ,how do you type all that info into the computer?, THANK YOU ELVIS!!! I will print out this revised copy now, I hope we fix this before you type in the whole service manual . there an idea he, he ,only kidding.
Thankya... thankyaveramuch. jj
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