NEC 42XM2 - Initial impressions - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 285 Old 02-14-2004, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by RichB
Looking at the specs for the NEC plasmas they seem to offer excellent adjustments. There is nothing about DVI that prohibits adjusting a plasma. Most of us do not change the players settings that much.

On my 503, I can adjust brightness, contrast, saturation, white balance use RBG with the DVI input. Most of that is in the service menu though.

Doesn't the XM series have professional modes to do calibration?
I don't currently have anything connected to the DVI input, but I believe there are plenty of adjustments available... AFAIK, the "COLOR TUNE" adjustments (individual saturation adjustments for RGBCMY) are available at all times (assuming the Advanced menus are enabled) - regardless of the input selected.


*** JUST NOTICED THIS IN THE MANUAL *** On the /S (HDCP compliant) models ONLY, there is a "PLUG/PLAY" setting on which you choose between "PC" and "STB/DVD"... presumably this is en/disabling HDCP. When set to "STB/DVD", the "BLACK LEVEL" setting defaults to "HIGH" (brighter - more gray." This setting is not on my 42XM2, but for those who are getting the /S models, you may want to keep this in mind (and CHANGE it!)
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post #182 of 285 Old 02-14-2004, 02:06 PM
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regarding DVI on the 42XM2 (non-hdcp): you loose the ability to adjust color settings (r-g-b-c-m-y) that you normally have available. you can still adjust contrast and brightness, and the color temp control can still be adjusted for r-g-b gain and bias. this gives (for me at least) plenty of control over the image. i'd like to hear from anyone with the silver-bezel (hdcp compliant) version to compare.
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post #183 of 285 Old 02-14-2004, 02:18 PM
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42XM2 owners,

Would you verify whether the video settings are input dependent?
On the Panny, Picture Mode settings are input independent and therefore limits user's calibration for various video sources for a selected picture mode. For example, on the Panny, if the user calibrates VIVID picture mode for his DVD player's component out, he then must use a different picture mode for another video source (an HD receiver...)
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post #184 of 285 Old 02-14-2004, 06:54 PM
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RichB you are very welcome. I like to share my thoughts especially in this case where I am so happy with the product (but I would do the same if it were otherwise, may be a lot more sreaming though!). Anyhow, I was lucky as here in Manhattan I saw both the ED and the HD version of the NEC and was impressed both times, in fact they equally impressed. Also, it was in a crap shop so it was even suprising that the PQ was, to my eyes, so good. The only and I repeat only other screen I have liked during my many visits to many shops here was the Fujitsu. I just decided that the $2000+ difference just did not do it. Anyway I did have one point to make: as you also point out there is only so much you can see at these stores
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post #185 of 285 Old 02-14-2004, 07:25 PM
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windwaves
where in manhattan you saw NEC panels? I am interesting in 50" model but want to see it first.
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post #186 of 285 Old 02-15-2004, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by eugened
windwaves
where in manhattan you saw NEC panels? I am interesting in 50" model but want to see it first.
Has anyone seen a 61XM2/S?

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post #187 of 285 Old 02-15-2004, 07:28 AM
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I saw the NEC at Sound City on 45th street (and of course purchased the set online !), on the same block as Harvey's.
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post #188 of 285 Old 02-15-2004, 10:00 AM
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The 42XM2 retains the settings adjustments for each individual input.

Has there been one NEC 42XM2 owner yet to post disappointment with his set? I know there are only a very few of us on here but I haven't heard from one owner that was less than thrilled with his XM2.

I have since played with the brightness, contrast and color settings on my NEC quite a bit and was able to really bring out the blacks from the DirecTivo. I was able to get the blacks so black that I lost all detail in the shadows and dark areas.

That is a complaint I have about the Panasonic and Fujitsu plasmas, that the black areas lose all details. I like to seek the creases in a black pair of trousers or the beads and details in a ladies black cocktail dress.

I know that when we tested my friend's HDTV ota tuner last weekend the blacks and the colors were much more dynamic. I think by turning up the color setting, the Tivo got closer to the HDTV tuner but still not quite there.

And, it may well be from the difference between a composite/S-video source and a component Ypbpg (or what ever the heck they call it) source.
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post #189 of 285 Old 02-15-2004, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by wblynch
...I have since played with the brightness, contrast and color settings on my NEC quite a bit and was able to really bring out the blacks from the DirecTivo. I was able to get the blacks so black that I lost all detail in the shadows and dark areas.

That is a complaint I have about the Panasonic and Fujitsu plasmas, that the black areas lose all details. I like to seek the creases in a black pair of trousers or the beads and details in a ladies black cocktail dress.
...
Thanks for the update wblynch. Check out this link for information about loss of shadow detail with Panasonic displays:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...iss#post2978299

We're back to the realization that comparisons are done without an A/B test between displays that have been properly calibrated playing the same source material from the identical devices in the same environment.

Have you confirmed which adjustment features are not accessible for a device connected to the DVI input? I believe a prospective purchaser should be aware of these limitations when purchasing components using DVI. Acquiring devices with DVI has been encouraged due to the theoretically superior image quality provided by a digital path, plus support for HDCP (which seems to be controversial). This is not an NEC specific issue.

The more I research DVI options, the more concerned I become about my choices for coordinating/adjusting picture quality when connecting multiple devices via DVI to a panel with only one DVI connector, or being able to make desired picture adjustments lacking on the display side for a single input device that does not have the capability to make the desired adjustment.

If you only have one DVI input and want to connect more than one device through a switcher, it seems like you would want to have adjustment capability on the output devices. Depending on the display adjustment functionality for DVI, you might also want to the adjustment capability that is lacking on the display side for a single output device.
(Hope that makes some sense).

Here is an excerpt from Hitachi 42HDT50 manual demonstrating the potential problem:
Quote:

"The connected digital output device controls the DVI interface so proper set-up of device user settings determines final video appearance. "

Thanks,

Lee
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post #190 of 285 Old 02-15-2004, 07:17 PM
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leebobob,

I understand your concern with having a single DVI that is switched. That may or may not be problem depending on what you are switching and the way the panel handles the settings.

For example, I am using a MYHD card from a PC. This card has options to tune the RGB, Saturation, Contrast, and Black level. So there is no problem.

A scaler that outputs DVI would also not be a problem.

If you had a DVI connected Scaler, it should also not be a problem.

A DVI connected DVD player could be a problem if it were running at native rate. But if it were outputting 720P, it might use a different memory.

I am not sure how the NEC works, but my Pioneer 503CMX has separate memories for different refresh rates and resolutions on each input.

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post #191 of 285 Old 02-15-2004, 10:17 PM
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I don't understand the statements about lack of detail in the Panny blacks. I had a Pio for a month. It had complete loss of detail in the blacks as I tried in vain to darken them from the usual dark gray. The Panny with its high contrast range (whatever the number really is) has much darker blacks and more shades between dark gray and black with plenty of the detail like creases in black trousers or individual strands and highlights in black hair. I have no complaints about being able to see detail in dark areas. I could never get the Pio to this level. The Panny does not have the noise reduction feature of the NEC, Pio and Fujis and lacks the punch of the Pio for very bright environs, but detail in dark areas is not a problem to my eyes. To the contrary.

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post #192 of 285 Old 02-16-2004, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by wblynch
The 42XM2 retains the settings adjustments for each individual input.

Has there been one NEC 42XM2 owner yet to post disappointment with his set? I know there are only a very few of us on here but I haven't heard from one owner that was less than thrilled with his XM2.

I have since played with the brightness, contrast and color settings on my NEC quite a bit and was able to really bring out the blacks from the DirecTivo. I was able to get the blacks so black that I lost all detail in the shadows and dark areas.

That is a complaint I have about the Panasonic and Fujitsu plasmas, that the black areas lose all details. I like to seek the creases in a black pair of trousers or the beads and details in a ladies black cocktail dress.

I know that when we tested my friend's HDTV ota tuner last weekend the blacks and the colors were much more dynamic. I think by turning up the color setting, the Tivo got closer to the HDTV tuner but still not quite there.

And, it may well be from the difference between a composite/S-video source and a component Ypbpg (or what ever the heck they call it) source.
Do you know if the 42XM2 has different settings for different signals on the same input?

Not a big deal, but I know that my 503 uses separate settings for 480P, 720P, 1080I on the same component input.

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post #193 of 285 Old 02-16-2004, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Ball
I don't understand the statements about lack of detail in the Panny blacks. I had a Pio for a month. It had complete loss of detail in the blacks as I tried in vain to darken them from the usual dark gray. The Panny with its high contrast range (whatever the number really is) has much darker blacks and more shades between dark gray and black with plenty of the detail like creases in black trousers or individual strands and highlights in black hair. I have no complaints about being able to see detail in dark areas. I could never get the Pio to this level. The Panny does not have the noise reduction feature of the NEC, Pio and Fujis and lacks the punch of the Pio for very bright environs, but detail in dark areas is not a problem to my eyes. To the contrary.

Bill
I didn't understand that either Bill. It could be they didn't see one properly set up. I have no complaints with my Fujitsus in the same vein.
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post #194 of 285 Old 02-16-2004, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by windwaves
I saw the NEC at Sound City on 45th street (and of course purchased the set online !), on the same block as Harvey's.
Sound City actually does a much better job of calibrating their displays than Harvey's. The Fujitsu's at Harvey's always look terrible (the 42" ED consistently looks better than the 50" HD in their store) Although Sound City really needs to work on their display area and lighting. It's like walking into a warehouse...
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post #195 of 285 Old 02-16-2004, 09:41 AM
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How many group posters does it take to change a light bulb?

1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has
been changed

14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and
how the light bulb could have been changed differently

7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs

27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about
changing light bulbs

53 to flame the spell checkers

41 to correct spelling/grammar flames

6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb" ...

another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive

2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper
term is "lamp"

15 know-it-alls who claim *they* were in the industry, and
that "light bulb" is perfectly correct

156 to email the participant's ISPs complaining that they are
in violation of their "acceptable use policy"

109 to post that this group is not about light bulbs and to
please take this discussion to a lightbulb group

203 to demand that cross posting to hardware forum, off-topic
forum, and lightbulb group about changing light bulbs be
stopped

111 to defend the posting to this group saying that we all use
light bulbs and therefore the posts *are* relevant to this group

306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is
superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of
light bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are
faulty

27 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light
bulbs

14 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then
post the corrected URL's

3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are
relevant to this group which makes light bulbs relevant to
this group

33 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety
including all headers and signatures, and add "Me too"

12 to post to the group that they will no longer post because
they cannot handle the light bulb controversy

19 to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three"

4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ

44 to ask what is a "FAQ"

4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?"

143 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs before posting
questions about light bulbs"

1 forum lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from
now and start it all over again....
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post #196 of 285 Old 02-16-2004, 10:02 AM
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LOL

Now that puts this all in perspective. It put me back in the right frame of mind. That being: "Just buy something and watch some damn movies already!"

Chris
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post #197 of 285 Old 02-16-2004, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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ROFLMAO!

Thanks, griz!

BTW - As long as we're OT, my wife and I had planned to spend Valentine's Day riding... rented a Fat Boy, broke out our leathers and on the way to pick up the bike - it started RAINING!!! In San Diego?!?! Can ya BELIEVE it???
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post #198 of 285 Old 02-16-2004, 10:24 AM
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Don't forget to include the posters three quarters of the way through the thread that ask how to change a lightbulb, as if it wasn't already discussed 100 times.
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post #199 of 285 Old 02-16-2004, 10:26 AM
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Ha ha it's good we have a little laugh now and then.

Glad you got on on a bike Elvis! Here were still under several feet of snow and temps overnight were locally below zero F. Took the wife out to the local roadhouse for a valentine's day dinner special, good band, games & prizes. Spent Sunday out in the woods on the trails. Was out 7 hours and racked up near 150 miles+. Layed it down once coming off a steep bank onto a ice covered road and got it stuck (near buried) in a ditch trying to climb a bank at the wrong angle. But other than that had a blast. Riding a '97 Yamaha Venture sled (snowmobile) 600cc liquid cooled.

Checked my HD recording of Daytona 500. Turned out great but discoved it was apparently in stereo rather than DD 5.1 and that there was an apparent household power glitch with 100 miles yet to go. So I'm missing the finish. Now, I really need a reasonably priced but good UPS. Any recommendations?
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post #200 of 285 Old 02-16-2004, 10:44 AM
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Aaahhh, great minds... I rode my Fat Boy to work today.

coincidence? hmmmm, I wonder...
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post #201 of 285 Old 02-16-2004, 04:24 PM
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I am very close to ordering this plasma. In reading thru the NEC website I read that the unit is FCC rated for commercial use, not residential. This is all new to me but, from what I believe I read the acceptable limits of radiation from a plasma is the same for both commercial and home use with the difference being that for commercial rating the unit must pass the test at a distance of 10 meters and for residential it is 3 meters.

Is this something to be concerned about?

Warren
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post #202 of 285 Old 02-16-2004, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Warrenbonz
I am very close to ordering this plasma. In reading thru the NEC website I read that the unit is FCC rated for commercial use, not residential.
IIRC, NEC had it rated for both residential *and* commercial.
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post #203 of 285 Old 02-16-2004, 09:28 PM
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you could get more radiation from a light bulb . . . err, sorry. lamp. lol
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post #204 of 285 Old 02-16-2004, 10:11 PM
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The /S model is rated for residential use (Class B). The disclaimers I've read for using the commercial rated models (Class A) in a residence are intimidating, but I haven't seen any post on this site mentioning a problem with emissions.

Lee
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post #205 of 285 Old 02-17-2004, 02:48 AM
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Okay, this is what I found out...

In DVI mode, there are two picture settings. Normal and Default. In Normal mode, brightness, contrast and other settings are changeable. In Default mode, they are not.

I put my XM2 in Normal mode and was able to tune the blacks and whites much better.

In DVI mode it won't allow you to change the color settings. Those may be changeable on the /S model.
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post #206 of 285 Old 02-17-2004, 07:25 AM
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Thanks for the update, wblynch.

NEC told me this morning that only the contrast, brightness and sharpness adjustments are available when using the DVI input.

Settings for DVI or other inputs are for that input in general - there are no individual settings stored for different scan types (720p, 1080i, etc.).

Lee
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post #207 of 285 Old 02-17-2004, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Lee-

I tried to PM you a few days ago re: a demo of my 42XM2. Just noticed you never got it... also noticed there's no "pm" button above your posts. (I'm guessing that means you have pm disabled.) If you're still interested, send me an e-mail; my e-ddress is in my profile.

Nick- I sent the same pm to you - tried to put 2 user IDs in the "Recipient" field - apparently the forum sw doesn't know how to handle that so it just deletes it.
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post #208 of 285 Old 02-17-2004, 09:47 AM
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For the first time ever I found myself using the zoom feature on my XM2 last night. I was watching Black Hawk Down and inspite of having the display set to "full" I still had the horiz. bars - this had never happened to me with any other DVDs with the display set on full, so I just wonder what is exactly this zoom button ? how do you guys find yourself using it ? I did not notice any PQ degradation and I think those bars just eventually will indeed destroy your screen. I simply cannot stand them and thank you Nec for letting get rid of them in all circumstances.
However it must be noted that by expanding the image to fill the screen using the zoom, one ends up losing something, I am not sure yet, but I noticed that when there were characters on the screen, when aligned to the right, I would miss a piece
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post #209 of 285 Old 02-17-2004, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I had a similar experience recently... ordinarily, I'm strictly OAR, but last night I watched a 2.35:1 movie using the 2.35:1 setting. I certainly don't expect to make a habit of this, but while I'm breaking this thing in, I am very leary of the black/gray bars, so I've started to make liberal use of some of the zoom modes. (Stadium seems great for 4:3 content - I believe it's the non-linear stretch that someone inquired about previously... it's quite good - better than the one on the Akai.)

Anyway, I would have screamed, "HERESY!" over this a month ago, but I actually enjoyed the full screen 2.35:1 movie. There were only a couple of scenes where I KNEW something was being cut off, and it was pretty tolerable.
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post #210 of 285 Old 02-17-2004, 11:32 AM
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Oh well, I am totally confused to tell you the truth with the settings of the screen resolution, ie the display button and the various zoom modes and then on top of that other size/resol settings in the menus. I was all set with the screen on "full" as this mode would simply work for me all the time: dvd's, regular TV channels and HD tv channels - which is simply great not to have to switch modes all the time. Only last night I had this sudden surprise of a movie that would not play at full screen inspite of the display set to full. Clearly I have too little understanding of what the heck is going on....SO SO, here is the greatest question: is there a way to summarize what is going on with the resolution. Or may be is there somewhere I can read about the basics ? All I would like to begin to understand is things like, HD is 1080i so works best when the resolution of the screen is set to HD2 (or HD1) but I fear this in turn depends on how things are set in the OEM menu options. Then regular channels are xxx_p/i so work best with this settings and DVDs I guess it depends on which one.

By the way, I think you really should avoid those bars, I am not sure it is only a question of breaking in. I mean, apart from that, how can you stand those bars especially when watching TV (not movies) ?
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