Pan TH-42PHD7UY Black level changing - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 449 Old 08-06-2005, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quasi
CNET shows the following layperson's description:

Full user opinion
I purchased one of these on Saturday and returned it on Wednesday. If you own one now, and are happy with it, then read no further. If you are considering purchasing one read on. The black bars you see above and below a non 1.85 Aspect Ratio movie change brightness (or darkness) constantly during the viewing of a movie. It is most apparent when a dark scene changes to a light scene. The "bars" lighten up also. Adjusting the brightness, picture or "power saver" controls doesn't fix it either. The local Panasonic shop said there is no fix. The problem is worse in a dark room. Once you start to notice the flickering black levels, the movie watching becomes secondary. Hence the previous warning. To be honest and fair though, the picture quality is super viewing 1.85 AR movies. Hence the 5 rating. ..

Please (for the moment) excuse my ignorance. Does this description present the issue being discussed here correctly? If the color of the black bars is changed to grey, would that help alleviate the problem? Thank you and I regret interrupting the flow here especially since it appears many have invested so much in this set and are not getting warranty help.
I have a 7UY and the Power Management function can cause this. If you have power management, turn it off.

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post #362 of 449 Old 08-08-2005, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB
I have a 7UY and the Power Management function can cause this. If you have power management, turn it off.

-- Rich
As a reminder, for the 42PHD7UY there is no way to correct this problem. There is no setting you can change, nothing. It just is. Perhaps you can get similar results on the 50 and 65 if you change certain settings, but in general the problem is limited to the 42 and has no solution.

Quote:
Actually that description is a known "feature" of the set that is discussed in the Troubleshooting section of the owners manual.

I believe the black level changing described by most here refers to a faulty change in black levels in the picture area. All these digital sets have an auto scaling grayscale function, but they aren't supposed to blink, toggle, or whatever repeatedly. Could be poor design or a bad batch of components. Probably both.
This "feature" only appears on the 42, though the same qualifiers are also in the 50 and 65 manuals. (In fact the 42 and 50 share the same manual, but do not share the problem.)

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post #363 of 449 Old 08-09-2005, 02:16 PM
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I posted here last month about my 42PWD7UY (yes the EDTV) having the black level strobing problem. I forgot to check back and noticed a bunch of you wanting me to confirm that yes infact my EDTV is strobbing.

Well my friend also bought a 42PWD7UY and his plasma strobes even worse than mine! We both use Sony 775 dvd players and everyone we know is too cheap to own a component capable dvd player so I have not tested another model.

As soon as I can locate another player to test our plasmas with I will either breath a sigh of relief or get on the phone with Panasonic and let my presence be known. Sorry for not checking back in this thread for so long after my last post. Stringing you guys along was not my intention! :eek:
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post #364 of 449 Old 08-09-2005, 02:41 PM
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You purchase a roughly 2k plasma and are too cheap to get a decent DVD player? Ever hear the phrase, "Sh*t in, sh*t out"?
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post #365 of 449 Old 08-09-2005, 02:57 PM
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Well the issue isn't how much I spent on a DVD player. I researched it and had found many poeple very happy with the PQ for the price. Even if it is cheap, there is no excuse for even a 100$ player strobing the black levels.
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post #366 of 449 Old 08-09-2005, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spa
As a reminder, for the 42PHD7UY there is no way to correct this problem. There is no setting you can change, nothing. It just is. Perhaps you can get similar results on the 50 and 65 if you change certain settings, but in general the problem is limited to the 42 and has no solution.

This "feature" only appears on the 42, though the same qualifiers are also in the 50 and 65 manuals. (In fact the 42 and 50 share the same manual, but do not share the problem.)
Just to double check, the 50" model does not have this issue? I'm thinking about buying it and would like to make sure this won't happen.
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post #367 of 449 Old 08-09-2005, 11:24 PM
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Correct. It does not have this issue. A few people such as myself, spa, and Jadolley have seen this problem on their 42"PHD7UYs and traded up to the 50"PHD7UY and not seen the problem that we did on the 42".
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post #368 of 449 Old 08-10-2005, 06:20 AM
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FWIW, I believe I saw the issue on the current 65" Panasonic Onyx plasma.
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post #369 of 449 Old 08-10-2005, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness
FWIW, I believe I saw the issue on the current 65" Panasonic Onyx plasma.
I have the 657UY and do not have the issue. If you get another chance to look at it. Make sure Powermanagement is off.


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post #370 of 449 Old 08-10-2005, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlshky
Correct. It does not have this issue. A few people such as myself, spa, and Jadolley have seen this problem on their 42"PHD7UYs and traded up to the 50"PHD7UY and not seen the problem that we did on the 42".
Thanks!
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post #371 of 449 Old 08-10-2005, 11:38 AM
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Looking back over this thread indicates that the problem seems to be confined primarily (though apparently not entirely) to the 42" model. There seem to be some 42" sets that definitely don't have the problem, some 42" sets that experience a relatively minor problem that doesn't bother the owners, and some 42" sets that have the problem so seriously that the owners regard the sets as unwatchable. Apparently there is agreement that no adjustment to the set has been found to resolve the problem among those sets that have the problem seriously or otherwise. Panasonic and their dealers are unanimous in not acknowledging that there is a problem (is this correct?). What a puzzle this is. Can someone offer an idea about the most probable root of a problem like this that is so widespread and yet so variable across sets (signal differences between users, unreliable components, user imagination, etc.)?
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post #372 of 449 Old 08-18-2005, 09:42 AM
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I just spoke with a guy from Panasonic's technical team and was told there will be no fix for the PHD427UY. I mentioned that it seemed like it was a problem with every one of them they produced (based on the responses here) and he said that it is part of the design - that there is no "fix" for it. He said that the pixel shape of the 42" makes the black level changes seem more dramatic than the 37WD or the 50" (which uses different pixel shapes). I asked if this design flaw has been fixed in the 8UY and he said that there is no mention in any of the design notes of that problem being addressed or fixed. He told me the only thing to do is to adjust the black levels. Looks like there is no solution.
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post #373 of 449 Old 08-18-2005, 11:33 AM
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I called and asked them and was told that is not there posistion.

These are just my opinions.
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post #374 of 449 Old 08-18-2005, 11:36 AM
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Please clarify-- what position do they take on this?

~~~ Happy Viewing ~~~

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post #375 of 449 Old 08-18-2005, 01:33 PM
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They didn't say.

These are just my opinions.
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post #376 of 449 Old 08-18-2005, 05:36 PM
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Sounds like their position to me ;)
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post #377 of 449 Old 08-20-2005, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aughrimfurey
I just spoke with a guy from Panasonic's technical team and was told there will be no fix for the PHD427UY.
Is the strobing black bar problem specific to the commercial model? Or does it occur on the consumer models (42pd50, 42px50 and 42px500) as well? Was just going to recommend these to friends after I heard about the pending 8/28 price cuts.

Thanks,

/steve
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post #378 of 449 Old 08-21-2005, 06:56 AM
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The problem is specific to the TH-42PWD7UY model. Although there have been 1 or 2 people that claim to have the problem with every model ever made.

The Mind is not a Vessel to be filled but a Fire to be Lit.
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post #379 of 449 Old 10-07-2005, 05:56 AM
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I really notice the issue during dark scenes from broadcast signals and DVDs. Not as much during 1080i as opposed to 720p. I've recently installed the HDMI board and still notice the issue. So whether it's HDMI or component the problem will not go away. Made all the suggested changes and even called Panny who still indicated that there isn't a solution. For anyone that has the new 8UK, have you noticed the problem?
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post #380 of 449 Old 10-07-2005, 12:37 PM
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I've noticed this on the 8UK as well (manufactured August 05 in Japan). Thus far I've only been able to use my HTPC -MCE running @1366x768 over DVI- for testing but here's what I've noticed:

- OTA HD content, issue is rarely noticeable. It happens, but doesn't seem too offensive

- DVD seems more noticable. Switching to Cinema mode & Gamma 2.5 has made the issue less offensive, but it still happens. Mostly happens on dark scences with illuminated objects. In one case it was happening at a very perplexing time.
Last night I watched Jay & Silent Bob Strikes back and there's a nice seemingly evenly lit scene in the comic store where it was happening rather noticeably.

Eventually I'll try other inputs and stuff, but based what I've read in this thread I'm not in a hurry as it seems like an unfixable issue (at least by trial and error tweaking).

Also my wife is oblivious to the issue. She is wowed by the look of the display, but she really just gets into the movie itself rather than what's going on in the background.

It does seem odd that there's no fix for this. That being said, I wouldn't have a hard time believe that a fix could be very difficult, very time consuming, very costly and/or could effect overall PQ.

Dave
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post #381 of 449 Old 10-07-2005, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kahnoodie
Also my wife is oblivious to the issue. She is wowed by the look of the display, but she really just gets into the movie itself rather than what's going on in the background.
Mine was too. I pointed it out to her and she basically said if it bothers you do something about it (so I did). She wouldn't have seen it herself nor would it have bothered her after I pointed it out. But she would be fine with a 20" tube TV. :eek: :confused: :)

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post #382 of 449 Old 10-07-2005, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddmiro
.......

One thing I noticed in the manual was this (under Troubleshooting/Maintenance):

"SYMPTOMS: the screen darkens slightly when bright pictures with minimal movements are shown.
CHECK: The screen will darken slightly when photos, still images of a computer or other pictures with minimal movements are shown for an extended period. This is done to reduce after-image on the screen and the shortening of the screen's service life: It is normal abd not indicative of malfunctioning."

Could this function be effecting normal video operations as well?

....
I have a 37PWD7UY. I do not have the black level changing issue, but my set does behave as described above. (Found this out by accident when the screensaver for my HTPC did not switch on one day!) The screen will darken after maybe 5 to 20 mins of a still image appearing.
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post #383 of 449 Old 10-13-2005, 03:37 PM
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Sorry to jump this post up again. I think the only way we have a chance of getting this fixed is if ALL of us sent them a letter and email with all of our signatures and contact information. If somebody here who is trusted wants to collect all of our information, we could get this typed up and sent to them. What do others think ? I am not mentioning lawsuit or anything, just a huge collection of everybody experiencing the problem and showing them that there is some collaboration.
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post #384 of 449 Old 10-13-2005, 11:55 PM
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well, unlucky as I am, I am definitely one of the 50phd7uy owners who has the black level changing, strobing, flicker, or whatever you want to call it. It is definitely apparent when watching HD material like Alias, or West Wing when there are relatively dark scenes. Annoying to say the least. But I don't know if I can do anything about it.
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post #385 of 449 Old 10-14-2005, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esac
Sorry to jump this post up again. I think the only way we have a chance of getting this fixed is if ALL of us sent them a letter and email with all of our signatures and contact information. If somebody here who is trusted wants to collect all of our information, we could get this typed up and sent to them. What do others think ? I am not mentioning lawsuit or anything, just a huge collection of everybody experiencing the problem and showing them that there is some collaboration.
Have not obtained one yet for this reason. Sounds like a good idea.

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post #386 of 449 Old 10-14-2005, 05:43 AM
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Try getting in contact with technowizard ( i think it's the right name ) He's the one that got us the fix for the S-video problem on the 7UY. He works at/for Panasonic.

Good luck
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post #387 of 449 Old 10-20-2005, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esac
Sorry to jump this post up again. I think the only way we have a chance of getting this fixed is if ALL of us sent them a letter and email with all of our signatures and contact information. If somebody here who is trusted wants to collect all of our information, we could get this typed up and sent to them. What do others think ? I am not mentioning lawsuit or anything, just a huge collection of everybody experiencing the problem and showing them that there is some collaboration.

Hi guys, I also have the problem exactly as described from the begining of this thread. My display is the TH-42PHD6U, build date is December '03. So the problem is there on the generation before the 7. I have watched a TH-50PHD6U and it does not exhibit this flickering (I will confirm this next chance I get). Clearly this is a design flaw of these earlier Panasonic Plasmas. I always thought my monitor was messed up, but now I know all of ours are messed up. Who's on the case? This is an old thread, I wonder how many of you guys are stil floating around here? Do we need to pursue legal action? Seems we all have the defect.
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post #388 of 449 Old 10-20-2005, 06:30 PM
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It is not a defect. I don't know about the 6 and 7 manuals, but it states in the back of the 8uk manual exactly what is happening, and that essentially it is normal.

So, not a defect, but is a design flaw. Can't sue them for that. :)

I did not see it as "flickering". I see it as the background (or foreground) changing shade depending on what else is on the screen.

I haven't read all the old threads regarding this, but I've read all the recent stuff, because this very issue (and the lack of the fb8hm hdmi input) is causing me pause. Anyway, I'm personally convinced that *all* Panasonic plasmas have this ... feature. :) Just that it can be more or less apparent with source content and how the plasma is setup. Black level, contrast, and for the consumer models for example, Vivid is much worse than Cinema mode, etc.

I don't have access to the pro models here locally (I don't think), but I confirmed the other day that the 37px50u has it and the 42px500u has it.

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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post #389 of 449 Old 10-20-2005, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin C Brown
It is not a defect. I don't know about the 6 and 7 manuals, but it states in the back of the 8uk manual exactly what is happening, and that essentially it is normal.

So, not a defect, but is a design flaw. Can't sue them for that. :)

I did not see it as "flickering". I see it as the background (or foreground) changing shade depending on what else is on the screen.

I haven't read all the old threads regarding this, but I've read all the recent stuff, because this very issue (and the lack of the fb8hm hdmi input) is causing me pause. Anyway, I'm personally convinced that *all* Panasonic plasmas have this ... feature. :) Just that it can be more or less apparent with source content and how the plasma is setup. Black level, contrast, and for the consumer models for example, Vivid is much worse than Cinema mode, etc.

I don't have access to the pro models here locally (I don't think), but I confirmed the other day that the 37px50u has it and the 42px500u has it.
Well I had the 50" consumer model 7th generationn and whatever were calling this problem these days or "feature", (black level changing) (black shift) (changing brightness). All I know that when my service center couldn't repair it I got my money back. I don't know if the problem I had is the same as others but why don't others take there panel into a service center and see if you can solve the problem? .

These are just my opinions.
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post #390 of 449 Old 10-20-2005, 06:40 PM
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Design flaw == defect in my business.

It is most definitely not the same on all models. I'm pretty sensitive to it and have never seen it on my 50phd7 (with respect to gadgetfreaky, who has it on his model). So if I've not seen it and gadgetfreaky has, there is a panel by panel difference there. Seems odd.

Steve
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