Problems with Panasonic 7UY Series - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 469 Old 12-14-2004, 08:39 AM
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Along the same vein of the 50" question above does this problem also occur on the consumer version, the 25U/P versions? Or does this just appear to be a problem with the add in card that the 7UYs use?
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post #92 of 469 Old 12-14-2004, 08:57 AM
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From reading the posts in this forum I believe that many, if not all, 7UY series Panasonic panels have the subject problem. Also, the problem can be observed on all inputs to varying degrees, S-Video being the worst case. Try watching a black and white letterboxed movie/program. The problem will be obvious and very distracting.

If you have the problem/defect, my advice is to go on record with Panasonic by reporting the problem to their Plasma Engineers. You can contact them directly at: 800-524-1448 opt 2.
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post #93 of 469 Old 12-14-2004, 09:19 AM
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I have watched letterboxed movies (2.35:1) through both the Component and DVI interfaces and have never seen this issue.

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post #94 of 469 Old 12-14-2004, 09:22 AM
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I just phoned the Panasonic on the number listed above, and the guy that answered said that they were not aware of this problem and that no one had spoken to him about it before.
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post #95 of 469 Old 12-14-2004, 09:46 AM
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I just received my 42hd7uy last night.

It was built in Oct 2004 (Japan) and so far I have tested it with "PC in" and I have not noticed any issues so far. I have not adjusted any settings (shipping defaults).

Letter boxed DVD looked really good - nice clean blacks and outstanding brightness and colors ("Finding Nemo"). Full screen cut of this movie looked outstanding.

I don't have my new progressive DVD player yet and should have my new HD box from Time Warner before the weekend. Once I get my DVD player I will test other things but so far I am very happy with this display.

Anyone know of any place to get a image of this test calibration DVD everyone is using?
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post #96 of 469 Old 12-14-2004, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by exrace
Anyone know of any place to get a image of this test calibration DVD everyone is using?
Yeah, it's less than $20 at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...s=dvd&n=507846

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post #97 of 469 Old 12-14-2004, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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No one is going to disagree that DVI or component is a better signal than s-video but that is not the issue here.

If Panasonic put an s-video input on their panels, then the s-video should work. Like the analogy someone once used, it's like Ferrari putting a defective AM radio in their car. Sure the CD player sounds great, but does that mean you should not be able to use the AM radio? The point being that many consumer electronics such as TiVo, most DBS systems, all VCRs ONLY have s-video at best.

The whole point of EDTV is to improve the quality of composite/ S-Video inputs by line doubliing (converting interlaced signal to progressive). The panels only have 480 lines because THEY ARE DESIGNED specifically to improve SD signals.

The brightness problems occur with both s-video and component. Can't speak for DVI. The component problem is much reduced and acceptable, although not perfect. The s-video is clearly defective. Please continue refer to my website for comparisons, answers to FAQs, and any updates:

Problems with the Panasonic 7UY Series

You can purchase the Digital Video Essentials calibration DVD for $16.50 (including shipping) at http://www.deepdiscountdvd.com. As TW confirmed, this is a high-quality calibration DVD from a respected broadcast vendor.

I would also continue to encourage people to contact Panasonic, their credit card companies, and any consumer groups to report this issue since Panasonic still seems to be lacking a bit in disseminating information on their own regarding this issue.

John
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post #98 of 469 Old 12-14-2004, 10:49 AM
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This thread has done a great job identifying a number of panny problems. But I'm still somewhat unclear on which problems are specific to HD, which to ED and which apply to both. My impression is this:

- s-Video problems on all 7UYs
- possible DG board problems on all 7UYs
- changing brightness problem on just the HD 7UYs
- no known problems with the consumer versions (25U/P)

Can anyone confirm or correct this? If this is accurate, then it seems that I have two ways to get a mostly problem-free panny:

1) Order an ED 7UY and don't use the s-video inputs (and assume that the DG board is okay or easily fixed).

or

2) Order a consumer version (25U/P)

Is this an accurate summary? What are the drawbacks to the consumer versions?

(I'm only shopping for an ED TV anyway, so I'm very anxious to learn whether my search is almost over or whether it's back to the drawing board with NEC, etc.)

Thanks in advance to all.
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post #99 of 469 Old 12-14-2004, 12:34 PM
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Thanks, monkeybusiness, that's exactly the breakdown I'd like to see. A table would be nice, if anyone has the technology. I have read through the (many many) posts trying to figure this out, but it's sure not clear to me, and certainly not spelled out in any one place.

If someone who's been following this more closely can provide the info (which problems experienced by which sets) I'd sure appreciate it.

Cheers... Perry.

edit: p.s. If you're right about the consumer version, let's hope the next-gen consumer models due out shortly don't propagate the 7UY problems to that side of the house! I was planning on waiting, but maybe I'd better grab a 6th-gen set while it's available.

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post #100 of 469 Old 12-14-2004, 01:11 PM
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So, has anyone tested if this problem exists on 6UY panels as it was suggested earlier in this thread?
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post #101 of 469 Old 12-14-2004, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by siegeld
I just phoned the Panasonic on the number listed above, and the guy that answered said that they were not aware of this problem and that no one had spoken to him about it before.
I got the same response when I called two weeks ago to tell them about the problem. I'm not sure. But, I think that is just their standard response to any complaint. Then they refer you to one of their service centers. However, the number of complaints about the same problem should begin to worry them enough to fix it.
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post #102 of 469 Old 12-14-2004, 03:31 PM
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Just been told that my dealer in the UK has been chasing Panasonic UK today and other people on a similar thread to this at avforums.com have reported exactly the same issues on the HD panel to the same dealer.

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post #103 of 469 Old 12-15-2004, 08:06 AM
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I want to start off by saying that I'm new to plasma's and while a reasonably adept engineer, I certainly don't know what I'm doing. *grin*

I noticed the S-Video problem in my 42PWD7UY (I can't see it on PC and component inputs so if the problem exists there it is too subtle on my screen for my untrained eyes). I also noticed two settings under the advanced picture options that I adjusted to attempt to alleviate the problem (as far as I can tell). I turned the Black Extension up to about midway (5 on a 0-8 on my box) and the Input Level down about as low as it can go (-30). As far as I can tell on my DISH receiver (the only S-Video component I have) this has fixed the black->grey blooming I saw in the upper corners.

I'm hoping that this might give an idea to the people who know more, or maybe someone can tell me how this actually messed something else up that I didn't realize... *grin*

FWIW,
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post #104 of 469 Old 12-15-2004, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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hunterware - If you refer to my website, there is a recommended setting for DirecTiVo which would be comparable to Dish. You'll find my settings pretty close to what you described.

Basically what you have done by turning Black Extensions up and Input Source down is to clip out all the darker colors (which does include much of the brightness problems). However, doing this simply masks most (not all) of the problems at the expense of losing a lot of picture detail. So although the problems are less noticeable, you have lost a lot of darker details. The Panny is capable of generating some awesome PQ even with darker scenes so don't settle for a band-aid fix.

John
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post #105 of 469 Old 12-15-2004, 09:48 AM
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By the way - I have the email address of a Plasma tech guy at Panasonic. I'm happy to send it to anyone if you PM me.
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post #106 of 469 Old 12-15-2004, 11:00 AM
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Charker,

Once and awhile I would watch certain scenes that would get brighter and darker. I have a HD Tivo so I could instant replay and see it over and over again. I began to play with the settings menu and then replay the troubled frames. I found that the Black Extension setting was the cause of my problem. I turned Black Extension to 0 and the problem no longer occurred for me. I then adjusted the contrast and brightness to compensate for my Black Extension setting decrease (it was at 4). It's been several days since I did this and I've not seen the problem since.

So the question is do you have Black Extension on?
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post #107 of 469 Old 12-15-2004, 05:08 PM
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You say there are problems on ALL 7UY. This is not true. Many people have reported zero problems. I have seen zero problems and did use S-Video several times. Of course, I would never use S-Video on a regular basis. I just wonder how many people outside of this Form have had this problem?
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post #108 of 469 Old 12-15-2004, 05:10 PM
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and, of course, it is human nature for some people to begin to see problems when probably none really exists. That is just the way it goes. And, I agree, some sets have a defect. But many do not. Or sales would have dried up on the Panny Plasmas. And they have not.
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post #109 of 469 Old 12-15-2004, 05:29 PM
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Hi all,

Just a quick preliminary word from "the Bird"......

re: the S-Video/Composite issue - a high level General Manager of Asian extraction has indicated to the Western zone Regional Service Manager to contact VA (they are a dealer in the Western zone) and inform them that MEI's engineering has developed a change of component (a capacitor I think) that has cleared this item. The modified B board (translated to AVS Speak = composite blade) has been given to the QA (quality assurance) group for further testing. The proposed scenario is for a quantity of B boards to be made available on a swap-out basis.

This unofficial blurb for the benefit of those whose item return time-table will expire soon.

More details as they become available, sorry I dunno any more.

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post #110 of 469 Old 12-15-2004, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mangopony
You say there are problems on ALL 7UY. This is not true. Many people have reported zero problems. I have seen zero problems and did use S-Video several times. Of course, I would never use S-Video on a regular basis. I just wonder how many people outside of this Form have had this problem?
So did you test your system with the DVE pluge pattern on the s-video blade and the problem did not show up?
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post #111 of 469 Old 12-16-2004, 06:09 AM
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I just got my 42PWD7UY on Monday. It was manufactured in Oct. 04 and it DOES exhibit this problem. I don't have it set up yet and haven't even put a whole hour of use on it yet.

The S-Video brightness level is much higher. Black backgrounds have a greenish tint to it and lots of what appears to be noise. I do notice the black background being uneven and very slightly brighter at top and bottom. If I have it at 4:3, even the gray bars on the sides seem to be affected with slight banding. To improve this, I have to turn brightness way down, but I bet that has a very negative impact on shadow detail.

Although there is no banding, changing the DVD player output from Progressive to Interlaced also results in a similar raising of the black levels and an all-around blurring of the picture. I am using the built-in DB15 VGA connector with a component to VGA cable, so it has nothing to do with any of the blades. I now see why people didn't notice any improvement using an S-Video to VGA convertor.

It seems the 42PWD7UY just has a really, really stinky deinterlacer.

Shawn
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post #112 of 469 Old 12-16-2004, 08:14 AM
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Shawn -- I'm a bit confused. Are these problems all basically part of the well-known "s-video" issue, or are you also seeing shifting black levels that are not related to s-video?

Thanks for any additional information you can provide. I'm still trying to figure out what problems I can expect in the ED versions (other than s-video problems, which I can easily avoid).
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post #113 of 469 Old 12-16-2004, 09:03 AM
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rick: to be honest, do not know what 'dve pluge pattern' is. I did go to S-Video a number of times and played my DVD player. I played it at normal settings for me..did move brightness up and down. S-Video I never use if component connects are on both products used because component givces me a somewhat better picture. I am sure the probelm does exist for some and I am sorry; sure it will be taken care of. So far, in normal viewing range of settings (for me) zero problems. I do not know what tomorrow will bring, of course.
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post #114 of 469 Old 12-16-2004, 09:12 AM
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My experience with I-scan and P-scan; I have a Cambridge Audio 540D dvd/cd player by the way. Playing a movie I switched back and from on the control in several difference scenes. Conclusion, a slightly 'better' picture with P-scan but, by no means, a big difference. My player, of course, is 480I/P and my display is Panny 480P EDTV.
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post #115 of 469 Old 12-16-2004, 09:12 AM
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I think my problems are the same as the S-Video issue. The capacitor fix to the S-Video blade might fix the slight banding and noise I'm seeing on the S-Video input.

However, to a lesser degree, I see an overall noisy/grainy/blurry picture and increased black level brightness on the component inputs with an INTERLACED source. When I switch back to Progressive, it's a night-and-day difference. I did a search and noticed there are others reporting the same problem on component interlaced. For that reason, I think there's more to this problem than just a capacitor.

Shawn
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post #116 of 469 Old 12-16-2004, 09:13 AM
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By the way, the above was done thru component connects.
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post #117 of 469 Old 12-16-2004, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GnatGoSplat
I think my problems are the same as the S-Video issue. The capacitor fix to the S-Video blade might fix the slight banding and noise I'm seeing on the S-Video input.

However, to a lesser degree, I see an overall noisy/grainy/blurry picture and increased black level brightness on the component inputs with an INTERLACED source. When I switch back to Progressive, it's a night-and-day difference. I did a search and noticed there are others reporting the same problem on component interlaced. For that reason, I think there's more to this problem than just a capacitor.
The capacitor change addresses only the S-Video/DVE Pluge pattern issue. Any other reports are still under investigation.

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post #118 of 469 Old 12-16-2004, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mangopony
rick: to be honest, do not know what 'dve pluge pattern' is. I did go to S-Video a number of times and played my DVD player. I played it at normal settings for me..did move brightness up and down. S-Video I never use if component connects are on both products used because component givces me a somewhat better picture. I am sure the probelm does exist for some and I am sorry; sure it will be taken care of. So far, in normal viewing range of settings (for me) zero problems. I do not know what tomorrow will bring, of course.
Fair enough. Then I think a more accurate statement would be that your s-video performance is good enough for your requirements. You can't say your system has zero problems unless you have done the same tests that everyone else has done and not seen the same results.

I don't mean to split hairs here but some of your statements imply that people reporting the s-video problems are imagining things. I know that there was at least one post earlier in the thread by a user who first reported he didn't have the problem but later corrected himself after looking at the test pattern. This failure is widely reported among the 7UY series and I have yet to see a post by anybody who has ran the DVE pluge pattern test on their s-video input and not seen the problem.

If there is anybody who has ran this test and not seen this problem then please post your findings because I would like to know if there are any 7UYs that don't have this problem. In light of TWs posts this looks like a manufacturing defect that affects the whole series.
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post #119 of 469 Old 12-16-2004, 11:26 AM
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rick. I only speak for myself in all my observations here. I said "I am sure the problem does exist for some"..and "I am sorry"...what more can I say? Do not want to debate this matter.
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post #120 of 469 Old 12-16-2004, 11:43 AM
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So have any of you with the ED model seen the shifting of blacks? It seems to be only occurring in HD models. What i have read it is really noticeable. Have any ED owners seem it?

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