Panasonic CES Teaser - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 157 Old 01-08-2005, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Knievel
Hopefully the new consumer models will have improved memory's. I sure hope so because I am still on the fence between Panasonic and NEC.
The NEC also offers more/better stretch options. I hope this detail is also improved on the next Pannys.

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post #92 of 157 Old 01-08-2005, 05:28 PM
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Why can't you set the Vivid and Cinema settings so that it'll be "usable", even if it's different from Standard?
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post #93 of 157 Old 01-08-2005, 05:52 PM
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For example the vivid mode is the torch mode you see in the stores. No matter how low I turned the contrast(0) and picture(3) (0-63 scale) the picture was still to bright and grainy to watch.

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post #94 of 157 Old 01-08-2005, 06:09 PM
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The 50 and 500 look a bit different. The 50 is matte, the 500 a bit glossier. The 50 looks like someone dented the top edge, the 500 doesn't (IIRC). They both look better than the existing Viera with the swath of cheap, grey curve on the bottom.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #95 of 157 Old 01-08-2005, 07:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
The 50 and 500 look a bit different. The 50 is matte, the 500 a bit glossier. The 50 looks like someone dented the top edge, the 500 doesn't (IIRC). They both look better than the existing Viera with the swath of cheap, grey curve on the bottom.
Are the bezels black?
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post #96 of 157 Old 01-08-2005, 11:37 PM
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Generally.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #97 of 157 Old 01-09-2005, 01:32 AM
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Rogo, did you see the 42PD50? Is it as silver-ugly in person?

Anybody have any news on the 37 ED?

"I'm more of an idea rat..."
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post #98 of 157 Old 01-09-2005, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nessus
I do not remember Panasonic referring to a feature like sub-pixel control before which indicates these models are indeed comprised of "8th" generation glass.
Sub-pixel control is unrelated to panel technology. The current displays already have access to individual color components. What I read here is that Panasonic scaler now uses subpixel addressing as additional measure of anti-aliasing. It is an interesting marketing technique to couch such a feature as increasing resolution. Sub-pixel filtering simply smoothes out high contrast edges. Instead of going from a white pixel to black for example, the display will now go from white, to blue, to black. Stand back far away enough and the edge would have smoother transitions. I guess since an additional sub-pixel is used here, one can say that in some situations, there is a 33% increase in effective resolution but the color pixels are obviously not the same as having additional triplets.

Microsoft clear type uses similar technology btw to get you smoother edges on fonts (a control panel setting for your desktop). But we don't say it increases resolution :).

Today is my free day to actually look around the show. I will stop by the Panasonic booth again and check out these displays and hopefully find someone knowledgable to ask questions.

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post #99 of 157 Old 01-09-2005, 07:28 AM
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amirm,

Thanks for that information on Sun-Pixel display. I just bought a 657UY and was wondering what was going on here. Suddenly there was a genearation 8 panel. There is also no consistency on the color reproduction coming out of Panasonic: I have read 36 Million, 1 Billion, and up to 8 billion in various documents about the 65.

Looking at the panel, it appears the there is only one 65. When you get the Onyx, you get the scaler/tuner box for about 8K.

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post #100 of 157 Old 01-09-2005, 08:07 AM
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adjust the dynamic, cinema, and standard to..zero..on all settings..they are now all equal..try it..Of course, the..auto..will adjust to available light. You can now set the 3 settings (dynamic, cinema, and standard, to your preference for different source material..dvd..Directv..cable..using the auto setting if the lighting conditions are varying within the room. By the way, we get a little too excited about 36 billion colors or 1 billion or whatever. Enjoy the picture and forget the numbers. Buy the way, the settings (dynamic, cinema, and standard) are someones' idea (at Panasonic) of 3 possible options for a consumer. In other words, gives him 3 choices without getting involved in making individual changes to brightness, picture and so on. My final settings are not too many 'clicks' away from these. Of course, we all see things somewhat differently. But these factory settings are close and a good guide.
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post #101 of 157 Old 01-09-2005, 08:07 AM
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amirm,

Can you confirm that the preliminary price for the 50PX500 is $5500? Thanks.
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post #102 of 157 Old 01-09-2005, 08:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by amirm
Sub-pixel control is unrelated to panel technology. The current displays already have access to individual color components. What I read here is that Panasonic scaler now uses subpixel addressing as additional measure of anti-aliasing. It is an interesting marketing technique to couch such a feature as increasing resolution. Sub-pixel filtering simply smoothes out high contrast edges. Instead of going from a white pixel to black for example, the display will now go from white, to blue, to black. Stand back far away enough and the edge would have smoother transitions. I guess since an additional sub-pixel is used here, one can say that in some situations, there is a 33% increase in effective resolution but the color pixels are obviously not the same as having additional triplets.

Microsoft clear type uses similar technology btw to get you smoother edges on fonts (a control panel setting for your desktop). But we don't say it increases resolution :).

Today is my free day to actually look around the show. I will stop by the Panasonic booth again and check out these displays and hopefully find someone knowledgable to ask questions.

Amir
Amir, thanks for the excellent explanation (also thanks to another poster who drew the parallel to Cleartype). I somehow suspected that this "resolution increase" is marketing BS. One more proof that in order to learn the truth, one must come to avsforum.:)

Having said that, the overall PQ resulting from the improved sub-pixel control may be better in the new Pannys and more like the result of Fujitsu's AVM.
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post #103 of 157 Old 01-09-2005, 10:51 AM
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Any idea why the newest Panny ad info isnt restating some of the ad jargon used on the 7th gen commercial models such as "Real Black Drive System" and "MACH" glass? A lot of it might be jargon but I would be comforted to know that all these improvements(or better) in the 7th gen commercial models are carried into the "8th" gen consumer models.

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post #104 of 157 Old 01-09-2005, 03:17 PM
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I went by the Panasonic booth but unfortunately, there was no one to talk to. So no more info about sub-pixel technology.

However, I did get to see the V50 and V500 side by side. Sorry to say (since it costs more and available later), the 500 is much prettier. The 50 has silver speakers below it, ala Sharp LCD. Indeed, if you like the look of the Sharp LCDs with the speakers beneath them, you will be right at home with the 50 series. The 500 on the other hand, has curved silver bezel below it that looks much prettier to my eye.

Picture quality of course, was identical on both. The material being played alternated between decent and poor. There was a ton of contouring at times with severe aliasing of diagonal lines on a gird pattern in one of the clips. I am faily confident the former was in the source (MPEG-2 quanitization artifacts) to some extent but the latter, is hard to say. Hopefully the new sub-pixel filter didn't cause the stair-stepping on those clips. On good sources, the picture was quite nice.

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post #105 of 157 Old 01-09-2005, 03:43 PM
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I felt like the junk was almost surely in the source. Some of the clips ran elsewhere and appeared equivalently bad.

I tend to think the sub-pixel stuff is a lot like ClearType and similar things. I also tend to think that at normal viewing distances it's not going to matter a whole lot.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #106 of 157 Old 01-09-2005, 04:28 PM
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I wonder what the dimensions of the TH-37PX50U series will be if the speakers are located on the bottom like the Sharp series.
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post #107 of 157 Old 01-09-2005, 05:12 PM
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Does the PX50 have a black bezel, with silver speakers on the bottom?

Like the 32LX50?

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...tGroupId=30958
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post #108 of 157 Old 01-09-2005, 08:57 PM
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Yes, it looks like the 32lx50 although the picture there is at an angle, making it look somehwat more pleasing. It is just a silver vertical bezel with holes in it for the sound to pass through.

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post #109 of 157 Old 01-10-2005, 05:27 PM
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Looks like cnet.com's ces coverage verifies the new 42 hd model will not have any resolution increase and will remain standard 1024 x 768

A shame, I was hoping they would show a real 30% resolution increase as the press releases indicate. Most be sub pixel marketing hype.
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post #110 of 157 Old 01-10-2005, 06:38 PM
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"Looks like cnet.com's ces coverage verifies the new 42 hd model will not have any resolution increase and will remain standard 1024 x 768"

It's 12+ months away to 1366 x 768 or 1280 x 720 at 42 inches.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #111 of 157 Old 01-10-2005, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rogo

It's 12+ months away to ........or 1280 x 720 at 42 inches.
Now thats something worth waiting for, any confirmation on that Mark or just rumor mill?

ss
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post #112 of 157 Old 01-11-2005, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GmanAVS
BruZZi, many thanks for the clarification.
Do I understand correctly, if using the "glass" as the yardstick for panny sets, then the "new" 8th gen consumer models in fact will use the current 7th gen commercial glass... and that calling the "new" consumer models "8th" gen is just a marketing ploy?
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Quote:
Originally posted by nessus
I do not remember Panasonic referring to a feature like sub-pixel control before which indicates these models are indeed comprised of "8th" generation glass.
I don't think those Models announced are 8th Generation Panels .
Panasonic introduces new Generation Displays first in Japan (obviously :D) then USA and other Markets.
I don't see any info on their Japanese site about new Displays.

Sub-Pixel Control is also available on the Onyx Series. (I almost sure I saw somewhere mentioning the 7g Commercial Series having the same feature - Can't find the link :( ) .

And both Onyx and "7UY" Models are capable of displaying up to 8.6 billion colors.
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post #113 of 157 Old 01-12-2005, 12:08 AM
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Suby -- Major mfrs. are getting prepared to move higher resolution plasmas down to lower sizes. Beyond that, it's hard to say more right now because of the sheer number of variables.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #114 of 157 Old 01-12-2005, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
Suby -- Major mfrs. are getting prepared to move higher resolution plasmas down to lower sizes. Beyond that, it's hard to say more right now because of the sheer number of variables.
OK. Not to try and pin you down regarding these variables but can you provide any speculation about what the higher resolutions might be for panels in the 50" - 65" range, a time frame for their introduction and the initial pricing?
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post #115 of 157 Old 01-12-2005, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
Suby -- Major mfrs. are getting prepared to move higher resolution plasmas down to lower sizes. Beyond that, it's hard to say more right now because of the sheer number of variables.
Mark,
I also would very much like to 'hear' what you may know re: 1080P plasmas in the 60-65" size range. Time frame in particular.
Thanks,
Bish
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post #116 of 157 Old 01-12-2005, 07:41 AM
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I would be very suprised to see 1080p in the 50" size, at least not in the near term. I see them starting at 60" and above and then gradually working down in size.

At 10'+ viewing distances from a 50" plasma you will be hard pressed to appreciate the additional pixels in 1080p vs a 720p plasma.
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post #117 of 157 Old 01-12-2005, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BruZZi
I don't think those Models announced are 8th Generation Panels .
Panasonic introduces new Generation Displays first in Japan (obviously :D) then USA and other Markets.
I don't see any info on their Japanese site about new Displays.

Sub-Pixel Control is also available on the Onyx Series. (I almost sure I saw somewhere mentioning the 7g Commercial Series having the same feature - Can't find the link :( ) .

And both Onyx and "7UY" Models are capable of displaying up to 8.6 billion colors.
However, the Panasonic website says that it is the "8th Generation Panel".

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_el...05/product.asp

Maybe it's just some marketing thing.
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post #118 of 157 Old 01-12-2005, 03:32 PM
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hoodlum, the reason the 65-inch plasma from Panasonic is 1366 x 768 is because the 50-inch plasmas is 1366 x 768. Once one domino fallls, the other one will fall too. Maybe not instantly, but in the near term....

nessus, the pixel count will be 1920 x 1080. It's likely those models will push the lower resolution ones aside after not too much time.... They will probably co-exist for a sub as Samsung will do with its DLP units -- some 720p, some 1080p at the same screen sizes.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #119 of 157 Old 01-12-2005, 06:49 PM
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If they are able to do 1080p at 50" then true 720p at 42" should be a lot easier. Could there be a true 720p 42" coming in the near future?
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post #120 of 157 Old 01-12-2005, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by hoodlum
If they are able to do 1080p at 50" then true 720p at 42" should be a lot easier. Could there be a true 720p 42" coming in the near future?
Agreed and good question.

ss
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