MASTER BURN-IN/BREAK-IN THREAD: ALL POSTS HERE ONLY! - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 2990 Old 10-18-2005, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamAnoobieCheez View Post

you will have to use "zoom" mode, probably..

i know with the panny's, "just" or "zoom" will do it. I use mostly zoom mode for DVD movies.



That image looks really odd to me...perhaps it's because you have the camera at an angle from the screen, but that doesn't look like any of the settings I have on my Panny. That image of Crowe makes it look like the wide OAR squashed in and made everything tall and thin.

I thought that Gladiator is 1:85;1, so I'm not sure why you'd need to use anything but the OAR of the DVD. It should fit your 16:9 unit almost perfectly, with the exception of a bit of overscan that you wouldn't (and don't in that picture) see.

-JR
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post #812 of 2990 Old 10-18-2005, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdenk View Post

I'm having the exact same issue after watching the baseball games over the weekend. I have had my contrast turned down to 28 since I got the TV last week. Also looking for some advice.


The problem with the baseball games on Fox is that the NLCS logo in the upper right hand corner is on the screen 99% of the time. Even if they break to an instant replay, it is still there. Secondly, it is bright white which does not help.

I called Pioneer on monday, and I had a tech call me back within an hour. he said it is unusual for image retention to occur so quickly within 3.5 hours, but he said that it would most likely occur during the first 100 hours of viewing. He recommended to loop a DVD, or put the TV on a channel with out logos to remove the image. He was very courteous, and was willing to make a house call if the issue did not resolve. I have it my TV on Discover HD for about 35 hours since Sunday, and the image has 99.9% disappeared.

I am running my TV about 18 hours a day to speed the break in period. About 15 of those hours, I am not watching TV, so I have the contrast turned to 0. When I am watching TV, I have the contrast on 20, like it is in Game mode. By the end of the week I will have about 150 hours on the set, and will begin watching normal TV with the contrast at 30. I figure the standard mode on the set has the contrast at 40, and 30 is 25% less than Standard mode.

there is a white bar function on the set to clean the TV image, but it is only available through the service menu done by a tech.
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post #813 of 2990 Old 10-18-2005, 06:17 PM
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Hi,

I have a JVC PD42WX84 which is now 2 years old. Of course, after a year when the warranty ran out, it failed to power up. $900 later, a JVC authorized shop replaced the main processor board. Then, after a couple months use, I started seeing what I call a "dirty screen" on startup; i.e., you can see the broadcast show but through lots of black pixels scattered randomnly about. I can clear this up by switching to an alternate video input, wait a bit and then return to normal viewing.

I called the shop and they don't have a clue what is causing this, but seem to know that it's not because of the main processor board..i.e., their work. I'm reticent return the unit for additional work at this shop.

I have a Comcast 6412 unit feeding the display through the JVC receiver. Any opinions on what may be causing this and what I need to do to both avoid it and keep it from destroying the display entirely?

I also get macroblocking from time to time, so am wondering if a strong signal is causing problems overall.

Many thanks!
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post #814 of 2990 Old 10-18-2005, 07:15 PM
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What is the 100 hour??? in the first 100 hour is not good I play videogame in my plasma??? why??

Hi!! I´m BRAZILIAN, and my English is not good... sorry!
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post #815 of 2990 Old 10-19-2005, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guimotta View Post

What is the 100 hour??? in the first 100 hour is not good I play videogame in my plasma??? why??

Look earlier in this thread; there's a link to a Panasonic whitepaper that discusses burn-in and what to do during the break-in period.
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post #816 of 2990 Old 10-19-2005, 11:12 AM
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Quick question. For standard 1.85:1 ratio DVD movies. What is the proper aspect setting on the Panasonic? Full, Just?? Thanks.
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post #817 of 2990 Old 10-19-2005, 02:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuiceRocket View Post

That image looks really odd to me...perhaps it's because you have the camera at an angle from the screen, but that doesn't look like any of the settings I have on my Panny. That image of Crowe makes it look like the wide OAR squashed in and made everything tall and thin.

I thought that Gladiator is 1:85;1, so I'm not sure why you'd need to use anything but the OAR of the DVD. It should fit your 16:9 unit almost perfectly, with the exception of a bit of overscan that you wouldn't (and don't in that picture) see.

-JR

that was on PC, playing DVD movie using PowerDVD.

all i did was just select "zoom" on my TV..
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post #818 of 2990 Old 10-19-2005, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamAnoobieCheez View Post

that was on PC, playing DVD movie using PowerDVD.

all i did was just select "zoom" on my TV..

Ah, ok. Do you watch 1:85 movies using zoom? You don't need to, they should fit your 16:9 screen without any distortion.

I don't zoom on any movie, no matter if it's 2:40, 2:35, 1:85, etc. I'd much rather watch the movie as the director wished it to be watched than zoom and crop out important imagery.

If you need help with adjusting your overscan, check out this great thread posted by Michaelangelo.

-JR
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post #819 of 2990 Old 10-20-2005, 11:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuiceRocket View Post

Ah, ok. Do you watch 1:85 movies using zoom? You don't need to, they should fit your 16:9 screen without any distortion.

I don't zoom on any movie, no matter if it's 2:40, 2:35, 1:85, etc. I'd much rather watch the movie as the director wished it to be watched than zoom and crop out important imagery.

If you need help with adjusting your overscan, check out this great thread posted by Michaelangelo.

-JR

wait a min..... the whole point I was getting at viewing full screen is "to show" stretched-look on video when set to Zoom mode playing DVD movies that are widescreen.. I posted the pic to show him that's one of the ways to get rid of the black bars.. I didn't post that pic to show off how good my pic is, trust me, it's "not" meant to look good.. that's was the whole point I was hinting him take a little hit on PQ and view the full screen during the breakin period, which was the main objective... to show "full screen".


another thing, maybe you are not having any problems viewing full screen because you have "very different" setup than mine. You're on Consumer Plasma with a dedicated DVD player. Maybe you have some features that came with the DVD player is allowing you view at nicely balanced full screen playing widescreen movies.. i don't know. Mine is strictly on PC, no exceptions.


I did post my messages in the thread you have linked... Waiting for their reply.. Thanks for the linkage though.


If you do have the secret on how to get my system to view at full screen without sacrificing the PQ, picture balance, and losing the viewing area(edges of the screen), then please do let me know. Even though I don't have any problems with the way I view movies(the pic I posted as an example), I certainly don't mind having a nicely proportioned full screen video on my setup.


however, if it is something has to do with "adjusting" V-POS/SIZE and H-POS/SIZE then i don't know if i wanna do that.... because some of other movies I run are in 16:9 Mastered in HD. It would look way off, wouldn't it? It seems what would happen is where I keep having to change the V-POS/SIZE and H-POS/SIZE everytime when I play different ratio type movies, once again, all this is on PC, not an external DVD player..


another thing I should mention... the "zoom" mode on my TH PHD7UY panel doesn't crop out any pictures. It bascially condenses entire video content to fit in my screen, basically stretch the picture vertically to remove the black bar. I've closely observed this from movie to movies and this claim holds true..
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post #820 of 2990 Old 10-23-2005, 08:39 PM
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is it to safe to use plasma as computer screen? i won't leave it on desktop mode. i want to use it for mce and games.
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post #821 of 2990 Old 10-24-2005, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkie001 View Post

My 3 week old Sony KDE-50XS955 has this problem BIG TIME. I use standard mode and power saving light level, with brightness/contrast adjusted with AVIA DVD. Any image that lasts for more than 30sec burns in. For example, the ticking clock/frame at the beginning of the CBS program "60 Minutes" burns in. Or if I watch letterboxed "ER" and then they have a commercial break, I see the letterbox burn-in bars at top and bottom of the commercial. Even the TV14 rating logo burns in on programs that display it. Very disappointing but at least it goes away.

Im in the same boat as you sparkie001. I have my 50XS955 for about a week now. Within 5 mins of watching the World Series I started getting the Fox Logo on the upper right- hand corner. What I do is just go into the Screen Saver (White Screen) and within one min. the logo will disappear. I borrowing this TV from a friend of mines. Do you know how to find the hours on the TV? I've got into the SM but I cant seem to find it.
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post #822 of 2990 Old 10-25-2005, 08:43 AM
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I received my Panny th-37px50u yesterday evening from DTV City.

I played portions of a DVD from my new Sony DVP-NS70H player & was very pleased. Gorgeous picture. Unfortunately this DVD player has the horizontal shifting issue that is addressed in another thread. A 3 /4 black bar shows up at the top of the screen when using the HDMI connection (Zoom function won't eliminate it. It is not present w/ RCA cables however). I didn't notice it until 15 minutes later. When I switched to TV viewing I could see the image retention of the black bar, but after an hour of changing channels, turning it off/on, it went away. Whew! (felt like I had dodged a bullet).

Further viewing was restricted to full screen, setting pic mode to Standard, & contrast/ brightness/ sharpness to -5 (approx. 60% reduction of full -30 to +30 scale).

Nowhere in the manual does it describe special care for burn-in issues other than a general statement about Do not allow a still picture to be displayed for an extended period as this can cause permanent after-image to remain on the plasma TV. Examples of still pictures include logos, video games, computer images, teletext, & images displayed in 4:3 mode.

I called Panasonic Customer Service this morning to discuss in more detail precautionary measures for break-in period & issues re: Sony DVD black bar temporary image rention.

They said the wobbler circuit in these newer panels reduces the burn-in concerns greatly. Rep said that permanent image retention would result from watching the same logo, 4:3 mode side bars, etc. if it was for WEEKS at a time (example he used was playing MSNBC for 2 weeks straight w/ the same logo & teletext should be avoided). They recommended for the 1st month or two, not to watch a DVD from the Sony player w/ the 3/ 4 black bar. Picture settings were said to be far less crucial than keeping a full screen w/ no bars. They said I could even watch in Vivid mode right out of the box if I wished too! (I don't. I prefer the look resulting from lower settings).

So, should I run a solid image loop 24/7 for 4 days like I have seen recommend by some, or just keep it full screen w/ toned down setting for the 1st 100 hrs. or so? I'd be curious how other px50u/ 500u owners have fared that haven't spoken in detail about this.
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post #823 of 2990 Old 10-25-2005, 12:30 PM
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I'm at just around a thousand hours with my PX50U now.....

No need to go to extraordinary lengths, just vary your viewing material and watch as much "Just" mode TV as you can. Just let it run on MTV for a few hours every night.

I always set the sleep timer later in the evening for 90 minutes so I can be sure it will shut off, but other than that you don't need to go nuts.

Out of the box I played games, watched DVD's, SDTV, HDTV, 4:3 material and never even saw a hint of image retention.

The new Pannys are built right. Enjoy.
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post #824 of 2990 Old 10-26-2005, 10:05 AM
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how do you determine if you have burn in. Do you blast a white screen or do you blast a black screen. Have been playing grand theft auto for a couple of hours and just wanted to know if the white hud's had burnt in.
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post #825 of 2990 Old 10-26-2005, 12:00 PM
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Quick question, and I feel dumb asking it but here goes, when saying that brightness and picture should be turned down to less than 50%, does that mean they should be at 0 or less (because 0 is the halfway mark between the - settings and the + settings), or it should be at 50% between the 0 and the highest + setting the tv has?
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post #826 of 2990 Old 10-27-2005, 05:22 PM
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When I called the panasonic technician they told me that the scale that counts is Zero to +30 and 50% of that is +15 max. They told me that the negative units do not count. Watching at "0" settings would barely be watchable anyways. For the newest generation Pannys they said hit the hundred hour mark and it should be EXTREMELY resistant to permanent burn-in. You may experience temporary image retention if forgetting the DVD logo for a couple of days. They kept stressing to me not to worry about the settings after that 100 hr break in. Go figure. I have 200hrs on my Panny and have now cranked up the screen to the settings I liked based on ISF calibration. I have not see any image retention and I watch the history channel all the time (10hrs a day)
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post #827 of 2990 Old 10-28-2005, 09:31 AM
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[b]Personally, I think this issue of burn in is a little over hyped. I'm sure the potential for burn in exists, but some of the things I've been reading sound pretty outragerous to me.... I've seen comments that warn to turn the tv off every couple of hours, switch channels every couple of hours, change the aspect raito midway through a show, turn all the pictures in the room so they face the wall, (reflection off the glass might bounce back to the tv screen and burn it self in that way) etc....

I mean come on.. People buy TV's to watch. They want to watch their tv's more than 2 hours a day. They don't want to worry that hitting the Pause button during a movie so they can run in the kitchen and make a sandwich is going to toast a $2,000 set. It would seem to me that if this burn in issue was as big a deal as some make it out to be, you would have heard about it long ago. 60 Minutes would have done something on it. All those investigative report shows would have made mention to it, etc... But until I started to research the purchase of a wide screen tv, I have never even heard of burn it, expect as it applied to the old monochrome computer monitors of the early years of computing.

We use 23" plasma screen monitors in our 911 Control Center. These monitors are on 24/7 365. Not the slightest hint of burn in on any of them. Maybe they use a whole different plasma technology for plasma computer monitors than what is used for tv screens, I don't know.
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post #828 of 2990 Old 10-28-2005, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayzen View Post

If you have especially bad burn-in is this covered under most larger store's warranties? They sometimes mention they cover "wear and tear".

If so it would seem to be a good idea to get an extended warranty, so if you get burn-in after a few years you can just get it replaced.

Jayzen,
The only problem is, it's not you or us, but the manufacturer who will have to decide what wear and tear is. Do you really see them ruling against themselves in your favor?
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post #829 of 2990 Old 10-31-2005, 08:59 AM
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I have read and (most likely misunderstood) the posts regarding reasons why ED has a "better" display image and due to pixel dimension does a better job on SDTV stretches SD better.

All that said and assuming I read correctly. Is there a larger or lesser possibility for burn in on an ED vs HD?

I won a used 37" HD 4:3 Hitachi I bought from a friend who rents AV equipt for $850. It is my first foray into the world of Plasma and believe me I do not baby that set. I leave it on FOX news all night sometimes. I have the levels up around 60% (probably because it is worn) It seems bullet proof.

I have not pulled the trigger on a replacement for a n old Tosh 50 RPCRT yet as I am still learning and waiting for the sweet spot where technology and price peak. Its pretty much close on the ED Panny.and the HD Maxent 42s. I will buy a 50" when they can be had for less then $1500. I expect in three years or sooner that may happen.

Whatever I buy will relegate the 42" to the bedroom. The 37" will be a computer monitor. There is some Vgame playing going on.

So I have decided on the PAnny ED or the MAxent HD within $100 of each other. Which if any would be more suceptable to Vgame burn in. I need a compelling reason to make this decision. Its been weeks of agonizing.

I recently learned the MAxent MX3 is in effect a rebadged Panasonic further complicating matters.

Average Joe For those few who actually watch the content rather then the TV.

Question Everything....Assume nothing.
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post #830 of 2990 Old 10-31-2005, 09:35 AM
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Insignificantly more.
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post #831 of 2990 Old 10-31-2005, 11:48 PM
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looking through this forum the data suggests the panas are better at handling screen burn,and the pioneer not so . i have ordered the new pioneer 6 generation set. they have just arrived in aussie model number here is pdp436hd
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post #832 of 2990 Old 11-01-2005, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celtic71 View Post

looking through this forum the data suggests the panas are better at handling screen burn,and the pioneer not so . i have ordered the new pioneer 6 generation set. they have just arrived in aussie model number here is pdp436hd

I'm reading conflicting reports on this... some say that they have a panasonic with lots of image retention, and others say they play games with HUDs and watch 4:3 native content all day without ANY image retention. Who do I believe? I'm hearing the same from pioneer owners.

The only first-hand data I have on this is that I saw a 5060 in Best Buy, and a 1130 in Tweeter, and they both had espn retained in the lower corner when I switched to another channel. Both times, the sales rep said that it would go away, but that "they should really change the channel for the display".

What is that supposed to mean? That they are worried about burn-in, or they just wanted to dispell my concern at the time and they don't care at all?
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post #833 of 2990 Old 11-01-2005, 03:43 PM
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The Plasmas in the store have from Day 1 been set to their most "vivid" setting and are kept on the same channel all day. Both of these are things you would not do when properly breaking in your new plasma. This is likely why both sets have real burn in. Of course the IDC white paper says this is only temporary image retention. To get rid of the image retention you would simply play full screen diverse programing for a day or two.

I broke my plasma in for 100 hours on low settings, have now cranked up the settings and watch anything I want. I am a history channel junkie and watch stocks all day. No burn yet and this has been for several months now. I am not worried about it after the break-in period. I have a Panny 37" plasma.
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post #834 of 2990 Old 11-02-2005, 03:20 AM
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here is what the pioneer technical support dept in australia says about the questions i asked,

Thank you for your email, Unfortunately with any kind of plasma TV, although
rare no matter what brand or model there is a risk of burn in. Here at Pioneer
we recommend you do not keep a static image (espn, most foxtel channels etc) on
the screen for any longer then 30 minutes, to give your screen a rest we
recommend changing the channel and watching something else for a few minutes to
rest that section of the screen. 4 hours of continuously having ESPN on your
screen will possibly cause a problem but to eliminate this follow these
instructions and you hopefully shouldn't have any issues.

Kind Regards,

Pioneer Support
2211 Princes Highway, Mulgrave 3170
Helpline: 1800 988 268asked
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post #835 of 2990 Old 11-02-2005, 03:33 AM
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I have two Panasonic plasmas, a 42PWD4UY and a 50PHD7UY. I have had the 42 incher for about for years and the 50 for about a year. I have never had any image retention let alone burn in. Both are carefully calibrated and I never watch any 4x3 material that is not stretrched but do watch plenty of 2:35:1 material. If you are careful at all, I do not see much of a risk of burn-in.
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post #836 of 2990 Old 11-02-2005, 03:36 AM
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To everyone still erroneously terrified by burn-in nonsense - BUY AN LCD OR DLP.

Thank you and have a nice day. I'm not going to bother posting about my Panny PX50U with ZERO image retention or burn-in playing games, watching DVD's w/black bars and 4:3 material. I won't bother anymore, because once you actually own a plasma, this argument becomes - A) Laughable and B) Sad....
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post #837 of 2990 Old 11-08-2005, 02:58 PM
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So I picked up a Panasonic PX-500U a few weeks ago in anticipation of the xbox 360 coming out...I already have played some Shadow of Collossus on it for a few hours and no burn in...When I get my new xbox I will be gaming like a mad man for a solid week...Possibly over 10 hours a day...I've been back logged with games I've been meaning to play and I finally am taking a week off for thanksgiving to just game! LOL...Nice vacation right?
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post #838 of 2990 Old 11-09-2005, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celtic71 View Post

here is what the pioneer technical support dept in australia says about the questions i asked,

Thank you for your email, Unfortunately with any kind of plasma TV, although
rare no matter what brand or model there is a risk of burn in. Here at Pioneer
we recommend you do not keep a static image (espn, most foxtel channels etc) on
the screen for any longer then 30 minutes, to give your screen a rest we
recommend changing the channel and watching something else for a few minutes to
rest that section of the screen. 4 hours of continuously having ESPN on your
screen will possibly cause a problem but to eliminate this follow these
instructions and you hopefully shouldn't have any issues.

Kind Regards,

Pioneer Support
2211 Princes Highway, Mulgrave 3170
Helpline: 1800 988 268asked

Good lord. This is Pioneer support? Nothing like having a support rep distribute such ridiculous advice.

Guess that means you, or anyone who owns a Pio plasma can't watch a single non 1:85:1 movie...ever.

-JR
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post #839 of 2990 Old 11-09-2005, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Sonny Curry View Post

I believe the term is temporary burn-in, the shape of the middle section of my screen is similar to the 4:3 box. The outer edges are more black compared to this middle section. Additionally, I could make out the TV-Guide logo burn-in, again this is only obvious when the background is black or when switching inputs with no signal. By setting my power to 'reduce' the logo as well as this box like shape are gradually dissipating. I have seen within this forum discussion about the voltage being the reason for such an effect, if so, why the middle of the screen? Plasma is unlike CRT tube based display where lets say the concentration would be in the middle.

I have a Samsung 42' DLP set - I thin it's first or second generation. I bought it 2 years ago.

Anyway, I have Time Warner Cable, with HD service, and I seem to get the "menu burn" as well, when I'm changing channels. It goes away when the meny disappears - which is about 3-5 seconds. It seems to always be a channel stuck up in the HBO range, which is a higher channel number.
Very strange, though I can live with it I guess.
Any thoughts?
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post #840 of 2990 Old 11-09-2005, 08:03 AM
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I have a Samsung 42' DLP set - I think it's first or second generation. I bought it 2 years ago.

Anyway, I have Time Warner Cable, with HD service, and I seem to get the "menu burn" as well, when I'm changing channels. It goes away when the menu disappears - which is about 3-5 seconds. It seems to always be a channel stuck up in the HBO range, which is a higher channel number.
Very strange, though I can live with it I guess.
Any thoughts?
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