OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 223 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 41Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #6661 of 10440 Old 08-16-2013, 10:54 AM
Senior Member
 
SDB30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I
Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post

Can you provide a link? I watched a review on Youtube and if they mentioned dead pixels, I missed it.

In their written review, they call it the best TV ever made.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/tv-reviews/samsung-kn55s9c-review/

It might not be a good value, but the reviews are pretty amazing for a first generation model. Now the questions about longevity need to be answered.

I apologize, that was the review of the LG.
SDB30 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #6662 of 10440 Old 08-16-2013, 11:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Chronoptimist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

He also notes that the whole black level business is basically a little bit better than Samsung and Panasonic's current plasmas: "I have to imagine that the even-blacker Panasonic ZT60/VT60 would fare even better in a dark-room shootout with the OLED: worse, yes, but not that much worse."
I am not familiar with his position on black level from previous generations of flat panel. If he has been mostly happy with black level so far, I'm quite sure it is a "small difference" to him.
There are many of us out there that miss the inky blacks that CRT was capable of. (and local-dimming LED has) To me, being capable of doing true black while maintaining good shadow detail is a significant improvement, not a minor one.
But it's not a mass-market selling point, as most people are happy with LCD black levels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Oh, and for all you ABL junkies, the OLED sounds likes it's every bit as bad as a plasma, arguably worse. The question yet to be answered is if you calibrate it low enough, how little do you notice it. Of course, then we'd be back to the fact that most of us with plasmas already barely notice it, except on some ads and very, very rare content. So in that regard, the OLED will be fine. But we're not ABL junkies and if you are, I don't see how the OLED is going to be any more satisfying in that regard.
I would hope that all OLEDs are like the Sony monitors where they have an ABL at maximum contrast, but it's like a CRT where reducing the contrast control reduces the strength of the ABL. At about 70% contrast (150cd/m2) the Sony monitor's ABL is no longer in effect. My biggest issue with Plasma ABL is that I tend to watch at low brightness levels, but reducing the contrast control has no effect on the ABL strength.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

But I'm still not clear why you'd pay 3x the price of the plasma for something that absolutely no one is calling anything more than just a bit better. When the Sharp Elite was new, it had more size, arguably a clearer performance gap and a much smaller price gap between it and the state-of-the-art alternatives.
If I was in a position where I could drop $9000 on one of these without having to think about it, and upgrade to next year's model when it comes out, I probably would. As I've been saying for a while, OLEDs basically combine most of the strengths that both Plasmas and LCDs have. Unfortunately they still have some plasma-like qualities (ABL, burn-in) and are sample & hold displays like old LCDs.
Chronoptimist is offline  
post #6663 of 10440 Old 08-16-2013, 12:39 PM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desk. View Post

Well, that includes me, then. :-)

I don't know why anyone would want to throw stones at a technology which, even in its infancy, demonstrates the ability to surpass the performance of existing plasma and OLED TV sets in most if not all respects.

It may be unaffordably expensive technology at the moment, and yet to be fully tested, but why don't we keep an open mind, hope for the best, and see what happens?

Frankly, I'm encouraged and enthused by what I've read, and am now even more inclined to hold off on replacing my trusty old CRT set.
Not throwing stones, just trying to get to the nitty gritty truth. smile.gif I don't know why there seems to be an aversion to being objective about this.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #6664 of 10440 Old 08-16-2013, 01:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gmarceau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 42
There's a lot that'll be improved with the weight, motion resolution, and maybe the abl, but it's promising to see what's happening with this technology in it's first incarnation as a large flat panel.

I'm hoping for some news from Panasonic/Sony on their 4k offering for 2014 at IFA.

"If you weren't such an ignorant troll, you'd be adorable" -rogo
gmarceau is offline  
post #6665 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 12:50 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sequoia, CA
Posts: 30,055
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

I am not familiar with his position on black level from previous generations of flat panel. If he has been mostly happy with black level so far, I'm quite sure it is a "small difference" to him.
There are many of us out there that miss the inky blacks that CRT was capable of. (and local-dimming LED has) To me, being capable of doing true black while maintaining good shadow detail is a significant improvement, not a minor one.
But it's not a mass-market selling point, as most people are happy with LCD black levels.
I would hope that all OLEDs are like the Sony monitors where they have an ABL at maximum contrast, but it's like a CRT where reducing the contrast control reduces the strength of the ABL. At about 70% contrast (150cd/m2) the Sony monitor's ABL is no longer in effect. My biggest issue with Plasma ABL is that I tend to watch at low brightness levels, but reducing the contrast control has no effect on the ABL strength.
If I was in a position where I could drop $9000 on one of these without having to think about it, and upgrade to next year's model when it comes out, I probably would. As I've been saying for a while, OLEDs basically combine most of the strengths that both Plasmas and LCDs have. Unfortunately they still have some plasma-like qualities (ABL, burn-in) and are sample & hold displays like old LCDs.

I just don't think most wealthy people want to buy a new expensive TV this year and then a new expensive TV next year. I just don't think most people want to do that period, regardless of bank account size. Sure, some enthusiasts do, but not many.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

When did I call anyone an idiot? I was too lazy to round up all the quotes but too many comments here focused on a few minor issues while completely ignoring the final conclusion of each review. That's the only point I was trying to make. No offense intended.

You didn't, but the implication was pretty strong.
Quote:
Plasma does nothing better than OLED when it comes to picture quality. Therefore it is redundant once price and size are matched.

This is a form of selection bias where you define a problem according to your own arbitrary criteria and then decide that because you've defined the problem in the way you want you eliminate one alternative. If you redefine the problem as "videophile picture quality at 65" for $3000", you can see that LCD fails to offer this for the vast majority of people and OLED is years away. So one could argue, "once OLED matches bigger LCDs in size, those LCDs will go away since they are so wildly inferior in picture quality". But again, that would be selection bias. Plasma was supposed to "definitely be gone by 2010" based on this kind of flawed logic. Because Panasonic's very future as a display manufacturer is reasonably in question, I don't doubt that plasma is (a) on the wane and (b) will likely be on its last legs by 2015. The mistake is relating this to infinitesimal OLED sales. Plasma sales are already millions off their peak despite no OLED sales whatsoever.
Quote:
LCD offers better brightness, image retention resistance, and resolution. The analogy to cars is flawed. ICE vehicles have performance advantages to EV's such as better range, refueling time, etc. One tech does not render the other redundant even at the same price.

OLED renders LCD 100% redundant once it can be made in quantity 250 million. Currently it's 0% relevant (not unlike electric cars, although those are at least growing at discernible rates).
Quote:
I must have missed your prediction of a 40% price drop this early after launch.

I must have missed the part where Samsung actually launched the TV, delivered any, and then dropped the price. Oh, wait, that didn't happen. They were taking pre-orders, got basically none, and substituted next year's price.
Quote:
Nobody can predict the future.

Again, in these cases, we more or less can predict the future. This is why I and others have done it so accurately.
Quote:
I guess we all have different aspects of picture performance that matter to us most. What's a "minor" improvement to you is huge for me. I have not seen a shipping display that was able to achieve zero glow or "off" state in a dark room with no blooming. If that's not a significant improvement over plasma than I'm not sure what people are expecting - a black hole that sucks ambient light out of your room?

You're entitled to prioritize whatever matters most to you. What you're not entitled to is to claim something is objectively huge when it requires pitch-black rooms to even see and light meters few own to measure.

People rave about the blacks on their Samsung LCD for crissakes. Those are objectively awful, except when the lights are up, when, well, they aren't. They're also good enough to enjoy a movie.

The idea that the giant contrast ratios of existing TVs aren't enough to delight people is simply false. The idea that the better CR of OLED is going to cause people to upgrade for the "much more lifelike picture" is patently absurd.

And this is not about "what people are expecting" at all, it's about the fact that current TVs are great for most people. They already do accurate color, perfect geometry, excellent contrast, sound motion handling, etc. etc. The problem with the idea of an OLED revolution has always been the incredibly narrow space above what you can buy and what is potentially missing. That's why the TVs are curved. It's to create some artificial wow factor knowing full well that the picture is going to fail to do that*


* Again, you videophiles are likely to be more wowed than many. But the true videophile will fairly note that the wow-ing vs. a ZT60 or F8500 is actually more of a "wow" than a 'WOW". I went to the famous black-screen Kuro demo back when the very idea of a true black flat panel was considered mere myth. It was amazing. Then regular content started playing on the displays and the more of it we watched, the less amazing the demo was. I'll let you think about why.
Steve S and agkss like this.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is offline  
post #6666 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 02:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gmarceau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 42
rogo, you're still buying an oled when you decide to upgrade, right ? wink.gif

"If you weren't such an ignorant troll, you'd be adorable" -rogo
gmarceau is offline  
post #6667 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 02:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Chronoptimist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

OLED renders LCD 100% redundant once it can be made in quantity 250 million. Currently it's 0% relevant (not unlike electric cars, although those are at least growing at discernible rates).
Only once they increase the brightness, eliminate burn-in/image retention, eliminate the ABL, and reduce motion blur to be at least on par with the better LCDs. Until that happens, they're just plasma replacements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

People rave about the blacks on their Samsung LCD for crissakes. Those are objectively awful, except when the lights are up...
This is how most people watch their TVs - even with movies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I went to the famous black-screen Kuro demo back when the very idea of a true black flat panel was considered mere myth. It was amazing. Then regular content started playing on the displays and the more of it we watched, the less amazing the demo was. I'll let you think about why.
That's the thing though - we already have enough ANSI contrast for displaying bright scenes (and arguably, LCDs are better at this than Plasmas) but any time there's a dark scene in a film or game I'm left disappointed with how it looks on most flat panels.
Chronoptimist is offline  
post #6668 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 05:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Rich Peterson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: St Paul, MN
Posts: 2,771
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 38
HDGURU Gary Merson picks Samsung over LG in a head-to-head OLED comparison. He also describes the Samsung OLED as "the best of the best HDTV ... ever".

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/best-hdtv-ever-15-000-lg-9-000-samsung-oleds-6C10931492
Rich Peterson is offline  
post #6669 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 06:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Rich Peterson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: St Paul, MN
Posts: 2,771
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

I must have missed your prediction of a 40% price drop this early after launch. Nobody can predict the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Again, in these cases, we more or less can predict the future. This is why I and others have done it so accurately.

Rogo, I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I think your predictions about the future of OLED TV rollout have been hit and miss. Some have been good and some are way off. For example, you wrote this post in November 2010 in this thread which has been proven quite far from reality. Here's what you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbyrne View Post

When will they start production of OLED HDTV's? Anyone have a guestimate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

2016 or so.
Rich Peterson is offline  
post #6670 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 07:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
greenland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,097
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 112
Can we get back to the actual developments In OLED TV product, instead of once again hijacking the thread to engage in Predictions Wars. It is really becoming very tiresome. Perhaps the dueling prognosticators should start a thread dedicated to making predictions. In other words; Take It Ouside please!smile.gif
tgm1024 and Chris5028 like this.
greenland is offline  
post #6671 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 07:57 AM
Senior Member
 
tubby497's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: La La Land
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 165
Seems to me there are people that don't want change. I don't get it. We should be super excited! It's the next generation of tv's. Are we not videophiles?? OLED's picture quality is better than plasma or lcd and doesn't have the negative shortcomings that plague plasma/lcd.... I have the KRP500M, which is the pinnacle of picture quality. I have love and hate relationship with my kuro. OLED changes that. I been waiting for an upgrade and it's finally here, and it's with OLED.
David_B likes this.
tubby497 is online now  
post #6672 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 08:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,814
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Can we get back to the actual developments In OLED TV product, instead of once again hijacking the thread to engage in Predictions Wars. It is really becoming very tiresome. Perhaps the dueling prognosticators should start a thread dedicated to making predictions. In other words; Take It Ouside please!smile.gif

 

Well in particular, I'm a little sick of the self patting on the back stuff in all aspects of life.  I'm awesome at not patting myself on the back.  But I'm a huge offender of predictions.

 

Not sure where the line is drawn overall.  This is the progression I see, which is natural IMO:

 

  1. Company X announces Y (Samsung announces curved OLED)
  2. We discuss and learn about Y ("How would that work----does it mount on the wall?")
  3. We wonder if Y is a good move ("I don't think this is a great idea.  I wouldn't want it")
  4. We predict one way or another ("It's going to fail: they can't push this idea")

 

Apply this to all kinds of stuff.  Not sure how to stop predictions in a learning thread.  I don't see the charter of a thread as a ticker-tape of news releases.  Nor would a "news releases only" thread ever work because it takes the seasoned folks here to determine if it's filled with sensible information or BS.  Which starts the 1-4 progression above.

 

EDIT: And just saying all the above just makes it worse.  Sorry.


Well Vinnie97, one of the kindest and most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before I get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
tgm1024 is offline  
post #6673 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 08:41 AM
Super Moderator
 
markrubin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 22,675
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Can we get back to the actual developments In OLED TV product, instead of once again hijacking the thread to engage in Predictions Wars. It is really becoming very tiresome. Perhaps the dueling prognosticators should start a thread dedicated to making predictions. In other words; Take It Ouside please!smile.gif

I predict there will be an OLED owners thread in this forum very soon smile.gif
RichB likes this.

Please take the high road in every post
Please do not quote or respond to problematic posts: report them to mods to handle
Link to sponsors
good to be back to vBulletin
markrubin is online now  
post #6674 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 09:32 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sequoia, CA
Posts: 30,055
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

rogo, you're still buying an oled when you decide to upgrade, right ? wink.gif

Yep. I predict it will be in 2016.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Only once they increase the brightness, eliminate burn-in/image retention, eliminate the ABL, and reduce motion blur to be at least on par with the better LCDs. Until that happens, they're just plasma replacements.

This remains the weird conclusion of a really small customer segment that is wildly overrepresented on these forums.
Quote:
This is how most people watch their TVs - even with movies.

And with the lights up a Samsung F8000 LCD is videophile black levels.
Quote:
That's the thing though - we already have enough ANSI contrast for displaying bright scenes (and arguably, LCDs are better at this than Plasmas) but any time there's a dark scene in a film or game I'm left disappointed with how it looks on most flat panels.

Shrug.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post

Rogo, I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I think your predictions about the future of OLED TV rollout have been hit and miss. Some have been good and some are way off. For example, you wrote this post in November 2010 in this thread which has been proven quite far from reality. Here's what you said:

You're not picking a fight since you're not a d*@$@(bag.

Let's talk about that for a second. The worldwide sales of OLEDs at these prices is going to be under 100K annually. So maybe production will hit mass production levels in 2015, but it won't next year. So I'm not sure for a 2010 guess, that calling it for 2016 was terribly off. It appears possible that normal people will buy the sets in 2015, but unlikely many others will buy them before then. Again, 100K units is significant below 0.1% of the TV market.

We can quibble about the nature of what was said in that thread and whether what's going on now really constitutes "production" in a traditional sense. I'd argue these models are basically BMW ActiveE-type production. Yes, they are being built, but in very intentionally limited amounts not actually designed to drive volume.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I predict there will be an OLED owners thread in this forum very soon smile.gif

Enjoy the TV, even though that thread I suspect will be lonely.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is offline  
post #6675 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 09:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
greenland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,097
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I predict there will be an OLED owners thread in this forum very soon smile.gif

I was wondering if you were getting ready to take the plunge. Are you?smile.gif
greenland is offline  
post #6676 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 10:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mattg3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ma
Posts: 3,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Cant wait for first users review

Matt
mattg3 is online now  
post #6677 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 10:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Wizziwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post


You're entitled to prioritize whatever matters most to you. What you're not entitled to is to claim something is objectively huge when it requires pitch-black rooms to even see and light meters few own to measure.

People rave about the blacks on their Samsung LCD for crissakes. Those are objectively awful, except when the lights are up, when, well, they aren't. They're also good enough to enjoy a movie.

The idea that the giant contrast ratios of existing TVs aren't enough to delight people is simply false. The idea that the better CR of OLED is going to cause people to upgrade for the "much more lifelike picture" is patently absurd.

I'm not the only one to prioritize contrast ratio. It is widely agreed to be the most important metric of picture quality. I guess after years of tiny incremental improvement in black level (after a giant step backwards post CRT/Kuro era), I can't help but be excited about OLED. At least one aspect of the picture quality holy grail may be checked off the list in the near future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubby497 View Post

Seems to me there are people that don't want change. I don't get it. We should be super excited! It's the next generation of tv's. Are we not videophiles?? OLED's picture quality is better than plasma or lcd and doesn't have the negative shortcomings that plague plasma/lcd.... I have the KRP500M, which is the pinnacle of picture quality. I have love and hate relationship with my kuro. OLED changes that. I been waiting for an upgrade and it's finally here, and it's with OLED.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I predict there will be an OLED owners thread in this forum very soon smile.gif

Finally some reason. Glad to see there are some videophiles still here that can appreciate what this TV promises to deliver. If it weren't for the curve, I would strongly consider this set as well. As it stands, I need to see how distracting the curve will be in person.

For anyone else considering it, I saw that ABT in Chicago will also be selling it.

Here's something from CNET for the plasma fans that might make it easier to resist an upgrade to OLED:
Quote:
katzmaier Aug 16, 2013
@I'd take the OLED, assuming you're talking about the 55-inch VT, despite the curve. But if I could have any size VT/ZT OR a 55-inch OLED, I'd take the 65-inch ZT. Size wins IMO

That's fair enough. Luckily I got size covered with a dedicated home-theater front-projector setup. Samsung has already stated they would release larger screens next year and I'd be shocked if we don't see models announced at CES.
Wizziwig is offline  
post #6678 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 10:25 AM
Super Moderator
 
markrubin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 22,675
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I predict there will be an OLED owners thread in this forum very soon smile.gif

I was wondering if you were getting ready to take the plunge. Are you?smile.gif

yes perhaps.. I am tempted...

but that prediction of an owners thread was not based on my own purchase
rogo likes this.

Please take the high road in every post
Please do not quote or respond to problematic posts: report them to mods to handle
Link to sponsors
good to be back to vBulletin
markrubin is online now  
post #6679 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 12:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Wizziwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post

HDGURU Gary Merson picks Samsung over LG in a head-to-head OLED comparison. He also describes the Samsung OLED as "the best of the best HDTV ... ever".
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/best-hdtv-ever-15-000-lg-9-000-samsung-oleds-6C10931492

Another amazing review and nice to see that Samsung addressed all the issues found on the LG. Man, I'm with Mark Rubin, it's really tempting and hard to resist.

BB/Magnolia have good return policies if the curve absolutely sucks and one can't get used to it. BB also offered one of the few extended warranties to cover plasma burn-in. Maybe they would cover these OLED's too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post

Just noticed this addition to the review of the LG OLED which talks about the reason for the stuck pixels.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/tv-reviews/lg-55ea9800-review/

So if I'm understanding their response, LG does not consider this a defect and think it is acceptable on a $15K TV? No matter the reason, the fact remains that if you're sitting close enough, instead of being treated to a perfect fade-to-black (one of the key benefits of OLED) you'll be seeing a colored star-field instead. Then there are the "vertical streak" uniformity issues, auto-dimming, and motion resolution.

Anyone else surprised LG has not already answered Samsung's price cut? As soon as we found out about Samsung's curved model, LG immediately announced their curved screen and air-rushed one to BB to claim "first available" title. Their silence now seems odd.
Wizziwig is offline  
post #6680 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 12:34 PM
Senior Member
 
agkss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 274
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Some people here hates plasma like i hate LCD...Funny but we are in an OLED Thread.
LG continues to be a mediocre brand even in OLED.
David_B and vinnie97 like this.
agkss is offline  
post #6681 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 01:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,814
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

The idea that the giant contrast ratios of existing TVs aren't enough to delight people is simply false. The idea that the better CR of OLED is going to cause people to upgrade for the "much more lifelike picture" is patently absurd.

I'm not the only one to prioritize contrast ratio. It is widely agreed to be the most important metric of picture quality.

 

IMO, the prioritization of contrast ratio is absolutely not at issue.  Even with TOP prioritization, its STILL more than likely (and is in fact the case) that LCD's have already closed in on the diminishing returns side of the wizbang curve.


Well Vinnie97, one of the kindest and most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before I get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
tgm1024 is offline  
post #6682 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 01:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
8mile13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,676
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo 
The idea that the giant contrast ratios of existing TVs aren't enough to delight people is simply false. The idea that the better CR of OLED is going to cause people to upgrade for the "much more lifelike picture" is patently absurd.
Eventhough difference in pq might be minimal in favor of Samsung/LG curved OLED it would turn them into the new flatscreen KINGs. The king is at the top of the food chain, which makes it a must have for flatscreen lovers with enough money to spend.
8mile13 is offline  
post #6683 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 02:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rightintel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,333
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I predict there will be an OLED owners thread in this forum very soon smile.gif

I was wondering if you were getting ready to take the plunge. Are you?smile.gif

Yeah, when the 80" or bigger models show up for $5k or less, I'm in. See you in 2016...
rogo, stepmback and agkss like this.

Xbox Live: General PATT0N
rightintel is online now  
post #6684 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 04:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
greenland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,097
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

yes perhaps.. I am tempted...

but that prediction of an owners thread was not based on my own purchase

Mark,

Do you suppose that you might be more inclined to purchase one if it were a flat panel, instead of the curved one that Samsung is making available, provided the price was no higher?
greenland is offline  
post #6685 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 04:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Wizziwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

IMO, the prioritization of contrast ratio is absolutely not at issue.  Even with TOP prioritization, its STILL more than likely (and is in fact the case) that LCD's have already closed in on the diminishing returns side of the wizbang curve.

When viewed in the daytime or in a brightly lit room, I would agree. This is not the TV for people watching under those conditions. Might as well go with one of the cheaper alternatives.

I will also agree with Rogo that selling a TV purely on contrast is going to be a hard sell. I mean, how do you even demo that in a store setting? I had to literally press my face against the screen and cup my hands around the sides when I was testing a Sharp Elite at BB. Maybe they need to setup tents around the TV's? smile.gif Even then it would really require a side-by-side comparison to get the full impact of what you're missing on a lower contrast screen. I think Samsung realized the same marketing dilemma and their solution was the stupid curved screen. Hopefully the great reviews and word-of-mouth will help fuel some sales of these TVs.
Wizziwig is offline  
post #6686 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 04:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,814
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 549

Samsung & LG: focusing on curved TVs.

 

Sony: Their only XBR LCD (X900A, a 4K device) offered has the speakers glued on permanently.

 

Really makes you wonder about these guys.  Do they want to sell these things, or shoot themselves in the foot?  What next?  An ugly as hell stand?  Oh wait, Samsung thought of that one already.  TWICE.

 

In any case, Sony just announced a version of the X9 without the speakers, so we're seeing some sanity surface.
 


Well Vinnie97, one of the kindest and most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before I get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
tgm1024 is offline  
post #6687 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 05:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JWhip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Wayne, PA
Posts: 3,996
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 118
As I noted in the OLED in London piece, there was a 4 week wait to get one of those flat LG sets. I have to also wonder about how many of the curved sets that are actually being brought into the US. Robert at VE still has yet to receive his and now won't get any until at the earliest, August 24th. The date of delivery continues to get pushed back. Considering that the Sammy 8500 won the shootout, I would have thought that he would have gotten some priority on actually getting one or 2 to actually sell. It seems that the units brought in were set aside for the press event and for reviewers to get a look at. I wonder if it will take weeks to get one of the curved OLEDs as well? All this tells me is that these sets are in EXTREMELY low production. While I will run up to VE once he gets one in to check it out, I am with Rogo on this whole thing. As much as I would love to have what OLEDs promise, I want to see how they actually perform in the field over an extended time, how well the blue phosphors last and one that is wall mountable and FLAT not curved. The curve is nothing more than a gimmick that clearly distorts the image and makes not one iota of sense to me. I would also want one 70 inches in size. I already have a 141 that have had the blacks lowered by D-Nice and am still thrilled by the PQ. So no 55 inch or even 60 inch for my next set. I want a 70 incher. I figure that will be 2016 at the earliest. It will probably have to be 4k as well. I just hope that Panny can figure out how to print these babies so I can actually afford one once they come out.
JWhip is offline  
post #6688 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 05:45 PM
Senior Member
 
agkss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 274
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Many people (me too) wait for a larger OLED, a 4K and Panasonic or Sony but to be honest plasma doesn't sell well for them (F8500 is probably hit his high end target right now) and they can change their mind and be out of business because only get red numbers. Well samsung is doing a good job with OLED but not enough to in my case trust again in the brand but if there no another brand to really produce OLED...i prefer a Samsung than the faulty LG any day.
agkss is offline  
post #6689 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 06:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Chronoptimist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Sony: Their only XBR LCD (X900A, a 4K device) offered has the speakers glued on permanently.
Really makes you wonder about these guys.  Do they want to sell these things, or shoot themselves in the foot?  What next?  An ugly as hell stand?  Oh wait, Samsung thought of that one already.  TWICE.
In any case, Sony just announced a version of the X9 without the speakers, so we're seeing some sanity surface.
Have you seen them in person? The speakers are well integrated in the design, and give you an even frame around the image when watching films - and it's nice to see someone focus on good sound again. I think it's the best looking set they have put out for a while.
Chronoptimist is offline  
post #6690 of 10440 Old 08-17-2013, 06:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JWhip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Wayne, PA
Posts: 3,996
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 118
I have seen the Sony several times including this afternoon. iMHO, the speakers look ugly.
rogo and agkss like this.
JWhip is offline  
Reply Flat Panels General and OLED Technology

Tags
Led Hdtv , Lcd Hdtv , Plasma Hdtv , Oled Tv , Lg , Samsung

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off