OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 286 - AVS Forum
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post #8551 of 10422 Old 02-08-2014, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Since everyone thinks that the future will be smaller sizes and CURVED--is a CRT comeback right around the corner?
Maybe if they are as light and thin as LCD/OLED and curve inwards wink.gif
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post #8552 of 10422 Old 02-08-2014, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Curved phones might be around soon.

LG G-Flex (6" Curved & flexible P-OLED (Plastic organic light-emitting diodes) Available in Europe, coming to the US in April.






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post #8553 of 10422 Old 02-08-2014, 05:49 AM
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Wow, that will be a PITA in your pocket. What total stupidity.
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post #8554 of 10422 Old 02-08-2014, 06:18 AM
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I noticed there's an LG authorized online dealer selling the LG OLED for $6999 delivered with no tax when purchased through a well-known online retailer's marketplace. That's lower than I've seen it online before. At the time I'm writing this they say they have only one new one in stock at that price.
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post #8555 of 10422 Old 02-08-2014, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post

I noticed there's an LG authorized online dealer selling the LG OLED for $6999 delivered with no tax when purchased through a well-known online retailer's marketplace. That's lower than I've seen it online before. At the time I'm writing this they say they have only one new one in stock at that price.

I believe Cleveland Plasma is having sale, LG OLED for $6500. It's great that the prices are coming down!
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post #8556 of 10422 Old 02-08-2014, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

One-person video is on a handheld screen, not a fixed, stand-up monitor or TV. Curved iPads anyone?

 

I routinely chuckle at the concept of someone trying to close the cover of a curved screen notebook.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

Please, don't joke! I'm starting to feel like I'm in an episode of 'The Prisoner'...

 

My favorite simile regarding this increasingly absurd industry is that much of this is like being on board the I.S.S. Enterprise.  But that's a bit of a geeky reference.

 

Seriously, I never would have guessed they'd want to actually bend a TV.


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post #8557 of 10422 Old 02-08-2014, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post

Wow, that will be a PITA in your pocket. What total stupidity.

Actually, i think the curved phone would be popular with women who wear tight designer jeans but keep their bulky phone in the back pocket (thereby ruining my view).

A curved phone would follow the contour of their booty much better than the flat ones do so i'm all for it. biggrin.gif
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post #8558 of 10422 Old 02-08-2014, 10:20 AM
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And for guys that wear their phones on a belt clip, putting in a bit of a curve would be a good thing....especially as these phones keep getting larger.

Before you know it, you'll be wearing a curved pablet on your hip.

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post #8559 of 10422 Old 02-08-2014, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Actually, i think the curved phone would be popular with women who wear tight designer jeans but keep their bulky phone in the back pocket (thereby ruining my view).

A curved phone would follow the contour of their booty much better than the flat ones do so i'm all for it. biggrin.gif

Sure, you can make phone butt implants and have the best of both worlds.
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post #8560 of 10422 Old 02-09-2014, 09:57 AM
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LG cuts the price of their 55" OLED from $8500 to $7000 in the US.

http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-55EA9800-Cinema-Curved/dp/B00E5U3YEK
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post #8561 of 10422 Old 02-09-2014, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post

LG cuts the price of their 55" OLED from $8500 to $7000 in the US.

http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-55EA9800-Cinema-Curved/dp/B00E5U3YEK

And some of Amazon's marketplace sellers have dropped the price to $6499.
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post #8562 of 10422 Old 02-09-2014, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post

LG cuts the price of their 55" OLED from $8500 to $7000 in the US.

http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-55EA9800-Cinema-Curved/dp/B00E5U3YEK

Gotta love the "reviews" on Amazon. biggrin.gif
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

That seems likely. HDTVtest use the Leo Bodnar lag tester (a simple device that sends a signal, and has a photosensor which is held on the display, and the time delay is measured) and I believe they measure the whole screen and use the worst result.

Late reply but I was browsing some other reviews on that site and compared their numbers from other TVs they tested.
They measured 33ms for the VT65 plasma. HDTVTest got ~42ms using the bodnar. I also saw that trustedreviews uses PC gaming LCDs (6-8ms lag) as their reference so the numbers make sense.

So now I'm confused how they managed to achieve 33ms from the LG OLED. Using the bodnar, that would have been equivalent to ~42ms. confused.gif

If the street price hits $5K, I might need to investigate this one further.
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post #8563 of 10422 Old 02-09-2014, 04:48 PM
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So obviously demand is somewhat elastic, but do we seriously think there is going to be a meaningful uptick in demand at $6500-7000? The Sharp Elite (at 70 inches, mind you), could move barely any units... low tens of thousands... for one year... before disappearing.

I realize LG can push the price down again, but I don't see global demand at $6500 being 200,000 units. Anyone else think different?

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #8564 of 10422 Old 02-09-2014, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

So obviously demand is somewhat elastic, but do we seriously think there is going to be a meaningful uptick in demand at $6500-7000? The Sharp Elite (at 70 inches, mind you), could move barely any units... low tens of thousands... for one year... before disappearing.

I realize LG can push the price down again, but I don't see global demand at $6500 being 200,000 units. Anyone else think different?

 

Only when I look at the demand and sales charts on one of their curved displays.  Makes things kinda better toward the right.


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post #8565 of 10422 Old 02-09-2014, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

So obviously demand is somewhat elastic, but do we seriously think there is going to be a meaningful uptick in demand at $6500-7000? The Sharp Elite (at 70 inches, mind you), could move barely any units... low tens of thousands... for one year... before disappearing.

I realize LG can push the price down again, but I don't see global demand at $6500 being 200,000 units. Anyone else think different?

I'd take the under on 200,000 units. The key question though is how many units they can move at $3500 flat screen version during Christmas 2015. That looks like a realistic price now.

It would have been an absolute slam dunk before but 4K does complicate things. The OLED will likely have better reviews for image quality than any of the 4K sets but it is entirely possible that 4K will be a requirement for most high-end consumers by next year. I am not sure how much of a premium the 4K OLED sets are going to require. They dont cost much more if your substrate yields are good but that might be a limiting factor for LG.
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post #8567 of 10422 Old 02-09-2014, 08:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Actually, i think the curved phone would be popular with women who wear tight designer jeans but keep their bulky phone in the back pocket (thereby ruining my view).

A curved phone would follow the contour of their booty much better than the flat ones do so i'm all for it. biggrin.gif

Personally makes more sense to have a curved phone, might be a little more comfortable hence the slight curve from your ear to mouth. I'm all for that but not curved TVs. If all OLED comes curved then like shark tank...I'm out
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post #8568 of 10422 Old 02-10-2014, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post

I'd take the under on 200,000 units. The key question though is how many units they can move at $3500 flat screen version during Christmas 2015. That looks like a realistic price now.

It does. To clarify, though, that's about 19 months from now because to impact that quarter's sales, the price needs to be in place by October of 2015. I'm not doubting the price is doable, just putting a time frame on it. However....
Quote:
It would have been an absolute slam dunk before but 4K does complicate things. The OLED will likely have better reviews for image quality than any of the 4K sets but it is entirely possible that 4K will be a requirement for most high-end consumers by next year. I am not sure how much of a premium the 4K OLED sets are going to require. They dont cost much more if your substrate yields are good but that might be a limiting factor for LG.

.... I believe 100% of high-end LCDs sold in the world's leading economies will be 4K by the end of next year. If your product is not 4K, it will be a sub $2000 product -- period. In the U.S., Vizio is going to make it impossible to sell 2K above $3000, in my opinion, no matter who your brand is this year (not sure if this really affects anyone, just saying that will become the absolute maximum possible this year). And by 2015, the lack of 4K will simply take the product out of the premium category.

There's a secondary moving target here which is that although the OLEDs will be the best reviewed, the return of local-dimming LCDs is toes in the water this year for Sony and Toshiba and up-to-the-waist for Vizio. There is no reason why it can't grow next year, stay with 4K, and be $2500 for 55" (with Vizio, you'll either get 70" for that much or spend $1000 less for the smaller size).

Now, of course, LG could go to 4K and keep the pricing constant, i.e. still reach $3500 at 55 inches by next year's holiday season. It would be the most expensive display, but it would be a reasonable alternative at that scenario. If it's $4500 for the 4K, it will still be "unreasonable" and limited only to people with really discerning eyes, I think, who are few and far between.

I believe they need to focus on killing the 2K model as soon as possible. It's really not worth trying to establish it when the basis for competition has moved to 4K.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #8569 of 10422 Old 02-10-2014, 02:49 AM
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"I believe they need to focus on killing the 2K model as soon as possible. It's really not worth trying to establish it when the basis for competition has moved to 4K."

Perhaps this has an influence on the price drop. There can't be much inventory for the 2k sets. Hope this is true and the replacement is 4k, FLAT and at the same price. If this happens I would see it as an indication that yields have improved significantly.
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Chinese vendors are expecting to release 55" OLED televisions (panels from LG) by October.

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20140210PD208.html
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post #8571 of 10422 Old 02-10-2014, 06:15 AM
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Those wondering about OLED yields may get some info in this article which doesn't specify sources but includes this line:
Quote:
Sources are now saying that LG is approaching 70% yield, and Samsung is at 40-50%.
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post #8572 of 10422 Old 02-10-2014, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post

Those wondering about OLED yields may get some info in this article which doesn't specify sources but includes this line:
Quote:
Sources are now saying that LG is approaching 70% yield, and Samsung is at 40-50%.
.

 

LG's yield number is for 2K OLED or 4K?  I had thought LG was remaining in the 2K OLED game for another year, or do I have this wrong?


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post #8573 of 10422 Old 02-10-2014, 06:41 AM
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LG's yield number is for 2K OLED or 4K?  I had thought LG was remaining in the 2K OLED game for another year, or do I have this wrong?

The yields cited have to be a 2K number. The question is how much worse is the 4K number and that depends on what is driving the current 30% 2K failure rate. If it is primarily the IGZO backplane, then 4K is going to need a significant premium but if it is vapor deposition, then LG will be able to bring down the prices rapidly.

Regardless though, I expect a big premium when the first 4K OLED's debut.
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post #8574 of 10422 Old 02-10-2014, 09:36 AM
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CNET says that the current version of LG's 55" OLED will be on sale through mid-year.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-6482_7-57618638/lg-slashes-curved-oled-tv-price-in-half/
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post #8575 of 10422 Old 02-10-2014, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

So obviously demand is somewhat elastic, but do we seriously think there is going to be a meaningful uptick in demand at $6500-7000? The Sharp Elite (at 70 inches, mind you), could move barely any units... low tens of thousands... for one year... before disappearing.

I realize LG can push the price down again, but I don't see global demand at $6500 being 200,000 units. Anyone else think different?

They only hard sales numbers I have is that in Korea they are selling around 100 units a month. So the Korean market is what, maybe 10% the world market? So total guess, they are moving 1000 units a month worldwide.
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post #8576 of 10422 Old 02-10-2014, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post


I believe 100% of high-end LCDs sold in the world's leading economies will be 4K by the end of next year. If your product is not 4K, it will be a sub $2000 product -- period. In the U.S., Vizio is going to make it impossible to sell 2K above $3000, in my opinion, no matter who your brand is this year (not sure if this really affects anyone, just saying that will become the absolute maximum possible this year). And by 2015, the lack of 4K will simply take the product out of the premium category.

There's a secondary moving target here which is that although the OLEDs will be the best reviewed, the return of local-dimming LCDs is toes in the water this year for Sony and Toshiba and up-to-the-waist for Vizio. There is no reason why it can't grow next year, stay with 4K, and be $2500 for 55" (with Vizio, you'll either get 70" for that much or spend $1000 less for the smaller size).

Now, of course, LG could go to 4K and keep the pricing constant, i.e. still reach $3500 at 55 inches by next year's holiday season. It would be the most expensive display, but it would be a reasonable alternative at that scenario. If it's $4500 for the 4K, it will still be "unreasonable" and limited only to people with really discerning eyes, I think, who are few and far between.

I believe they need to focus on killing the 2K model as soon as possible. It's really not worth trying to establish it when the basis for competition has moved to 4K.

I think what you've written is spot-on and I also believe that Panasonic came to more or less the same conclusion mid last year, which is the real reason they decided to pull the plug on their plasma business...

-fafrd
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post #8577 of 10422 Old 02-10-2014, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post


I believe 100% of high-end LCDs sold in the world's leading economies will be 4K by the end of next year. If your product is not 4K, it will be a sub $2000 product -- period. In the U.S., Vizio is going to make it impossible to sell 2K above $3000, in my opinion, no matter who your brand is this year (not sure if this really affects anyone, just saying that will become the absolute maximum possible this year). And by 2015, the lack of 4K will simply take the product out of the premium category.

There's a secondary moving target here which is that although the OLEDs will be the best reviewed, the return of local-dimming LCDs is toes in the water this year for Sony and Toshiba and up-to-the-waist for Vizio. There is no reason why it can't grow next year, stay with 4K, and be $2500 for 55" (with Vizio, you'll either get 70" for that much or spend $1000 less for the smaller size).

Now, of course, LG could go to 4K and keep the pricing constant, i.e. still reach $3500 at 55 inches by next year's holiday season. It would be the most expensive display, but it would be a reasonable alternative at that scenario. If it's $4500 for the 4K, it will still be "unreasonable" and limited only to people with really discerning eyes, I think, who are few and far between.

I believe they need to focus on killing the 2K model as soon as possible. It's really not worth trying to establish it when the basis for competition has moved to 4K.

I think what you've written is spot-on and I also believe that Panasonic came to more or less the same conclusion mid last year, which is the real reason they decided to pull the plug on their plasma business...

-fafrd


You don't think Japanese labor costs had anything to do with it?

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Not that much because their manufacturing base expanded in the name of globalization like most other multinational firms.
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post #8579 of 10422 Old 02-10-2014, 11:48 AM
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But the Plasma TV factory was in Japan!!

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post #8580 of 10422 Old 02-10-2014, 11:56 AM
 
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THE factory? What factory were they using in Mexico then?
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