OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 10709 Old 01-19-2007, 01:21 PM
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The above pics looks like the 11 inch,not the 27 inch.

Personal website dedicated to Vintage Micro TV http://www.visions4.net/journal/time-line/
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post #62 of 10709 Old 01-20-2007, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OreoJoe View Post

A big disadvantage for OLED TV seems to be, similar to Plasma TV, reflections or glare in rooms with sunlight or electric lighting. Judging from the photographs of the prototype models, OLED may be fine for dark home theater, but for a bright room, LCD can be better.


I don't know about everybody else, but I would rather have a glass screen with a little bit of glare than I would the cheap plastic screens found on LCD and RPTV's..

1. It's more durable/scratch resistant
2. It produces a clearer picture
3. It's easy to clean

Also, LCD screens aren't entirely immune to glare...try placing one near an open window in the middle of the day.

That being said, I think OLED TV's have a lot of potential, and if they can get the cost down to an acceptable level and get them in the stores in the near future, I think they will do well.
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post #63 of 10709 Old 01-24-2007, 12:00 PM
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I realize we can't tell too much from the pics here (thanks, however) but the colors seem to be almost incandescent, especially reds and greens. Pretty - but not entirely realistic. Maybe someone turned the color control up too much?

"The truth is out there!"
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post #64 of 10709 Old 01-25-2007, 12:32 PM
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I disagree. Imagine a sunny day at Waikiki and I think that's what it would look like!
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post #65 of 10709 Old 01-29-2007, 10:19 AM
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I've been to Waikiki and the OLED looks better than the real thing!
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post #66 of 10709 Old 01-29-2007, 04:14 PM
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Very nice source of material! Thanks!


So....Are these going to be very susceptible to image retention?

I view lots of static images.
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post #67 of 10709 Old 01-30-2007, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

So....Are these going to be very susceptible to image retention?

I view lots of static images.

I don't know about IR, but my guess is that they will be susceptible to burn-in. So far, the aging characteristics of the organic materials (in terms of light output) is similar to, or worse than, that of modern phosphors. Brighter images cause the materials to age faster, so this could create burn-in.

-Steve
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post #68 of 10709 Old 02-09-2007, 11:11 PM
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Hi, could someone please kindly tell me a list of companies out there who are OLED Inkjet process fabrication machine builders for tv displays for special needs and clients? :-)
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post #69 of 10709 Old 02-18-2007, 08:41 AM
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Here's an article from CNET group predicting the bright future for OLED technology.

Bright future for OLEDs, report predicts
By Candace Lombardi, CNET News.com
16/2/2007

OLEDs, which have only recently found their way from the lab to the Consumer Electronics Show floor, are poised to become a multibillion-dollar market.

The OLED market is predicted to hit US$10.9 billion by 2012 and grow to US$15.5 billion two years later, according to a report released Thursday from research firm NanoMarkets. The market is expected to reach US$1.4 billion this year.

OLEDs (organic light-emitting diodes) can be fashioned into thin sheets of polymer that emit bright light when an electrical current is applied. They are already used on the outer screen of many clamshell phones, a few MP3 players, an electric razor and a Kodak camera.

Kodak was one of the first to develop a specific kind of OLED technology. Now companies like Sony are touting OLEDs as the next big thing in flat-screen televisions and General Electric is using them to develop more energy-efficient lighting fixtures and windows. Their thinness and promise of low power consumption also make OLEDs ideal for signs, as well as computer and laptop monitors.

"The attraction for OLEDs in all of these areas--cell phones, signs or computer and television displays--is that, first of all, OLEDs are very bright and attractive to look at," said Lawrence Gasman, a senior analyst at NanoMarkets.

OLED displays require no backlighting, as LCDs (liquid crystal displays) do. In fact, OLEDs, which promise to be more energy-efficient, could be used to replace the power-eating fluorescent backlighting currently used for LCDs, according to Gasman.

Also, OLEDs may prove cheaper to manufacture. Currently, OLED displays are not as complicated to produce as LCD displays, though the processes are similar, said Gasman. Developing technology, however, will enable OLED displays to be printed on conventional or ink-jet printers. The new roll-to-roll process, similar in look to newspaper printing, will be much cheaper than the LCD manufacturing process, said Gasman.

Although, Sony has said that 2008 could see some OLED televisions available to consumers, don't expect to see OLED televisions become the norm overnight. Companies have invested heavily in LCD manufacturing plants, according to Gasman, and are unlikely to throw them out just to switch to OLEDs.

"It takes a long time for any new technology, however good, to take over in televisions. To state the obvious, people don't buy a new one after 18 months as they do with cell phones. The product life for televisions is longer," said Gasman.

OLED for billboards and signs?
Do expect to see OLEDs as the main screens on mobile phones. OLEDs have fast switching rates, which means they are good for video. That is a big motivator for main displays on cell phones, especially with mobile video becoming more popular.

"In theory, they also have very low power consumption overall. They don't drain the batteries as fast as LCDs do, and that is tied to the switching issue. You don't need as much power to change pictures and things," said Gasman.

"And power is probably the main constraint--apart from size issues--on what you can do on mobile phone or handheld gaming devices," he said.

For these reasons, it's expected that revenue for OLED displays used in mobile phones and handhelds will be about US$7.2 billion by 2014, according to NanoMarkets.

The report also noted the physical flexibility of OLEDs and the wide angle from which they can be seen as other attractive traits. Companies looking to offer detachable roll-up displays for cell phones and slimmer displays for commercial signs and notebook computers will make the switch to OLEDs. Large color displays, such as billboards, are not yet an option with current OLED technology. But medium-size OLED displays, like informational signs at kiosks, are ideal because they can be viewed from far angles, said the report.

OLEDs are also expected to have a significant impact on lighting, with the market for OLED-based lighting expected to exceed US$1 billion by 2014.

According to companies exploring the use of OLEDs in light fixtures, a 25-cm square panel of OLEDs can generate about 25 to 31 lumens per watt, compared with the 10 to 15 lumens per watt given off by an incandescent light bulb.

But OLEDs are not yet weather-resistant, so don't expect to see them as airport runway lights anytime soon.

One place you might see them, however, is in the airplane cabin. Gasman said OLEDs could be built into planes to offer lighting, as well as into the wall panels of homes. The lighting would be less expensive to run in terms of power than incandescent lighting.

http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/home_av...1990462,00.htm
http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/home_av...90462-2,00.htm
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post #70 of 10709 Old 02-18-2007, 10:43 PM
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Much thanks for all the great links, gentlemen. The breakthroughs in LED technology in general, and OLED in particlular, in the last year alone have been stunning! Keep the good news coming.
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post #71 of 10709 Old 02-20-2007, 02:24 PM
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Has anyone personally seen the OLED in action?

Have you seen it display 60 fields per second of crystal clear source material (no blurring)??? It is supposed to have a quick response time.. but then so is SXRD...

Wondering if I should get my hopes up and start saving my pennies for true 1920x 1080 at rock solid 60 fields per second...

meh
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post #72 of 10709 Old 02-20-2007, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh yes it will, the pixels switch 100 times faster than LCD. OLED is a truly solid-state display technology, unlike LCD which is liquid-state.

100x faster switching speeds means that you could get ten people watching ten different videos (frame interleaved) on the same display, using shutter glasses for each, synced to the different display times. Each person's display would be 10x faster than an LCD, ie. 600fps or maybe only 1/4 of that considering that LCD's real speed is about 15fps.

Alternately, you could omit the glasses and watch your video at 600fps, and it would still be more than 10x clearer than an LCD.

However, it's important to remember that OLED is still crappy technology compared to inorganic LED, whose switching time is measured in nanoseconds (5ns typ.). One thousand nanoseconds is one microsecond, so LEDs are 1000x faster than OLEDs, which are about 100x faster than LCD.

In other words, a true LED display (they can sometimes be seen in big billboards, etc.) can show 100,000 fps without smear. If 1000 people each with their own synced shutterglasses, were to watch one of these displays showing 1000 video streams frame interleaved, each could see their 'own' display running at 100Hz!
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post #73 of 10709 Old 02-20-2007, 09:39 PM
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OLED's seem like the perfect technology. I'm just wondering if there are any more drawbacks to these that haven't been discussed. From what I can tell, the only things I see of concern are as follows:

1. Organic Lifetimes(which could possibly lead to image retention over time)
2. Possibly high cost of manufacturing(at least in the near future)
3. Screen sizes. Can they be made bigger...cheaply?( I recall reading about a 40" Samsung panel)
4. Easily damaged by water/moisture. Can't these be sealed up tight?

Also, any news on Sony's OLED plans?
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post #74 of 10709 Old 02-21-2007, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

Alternately, you could omit the glasses and watch your video at 600fps, and it would still be more than 10x clearer than an LCD.

[...]

In other words, a true LED display (they can sometimes be seen in big billboards, etc.) can show 100,000 fps without smear.

I think you are not aware of the sample-and-hold effect. Are you? It affects OLED in the same way as LCD. Running a movie with 2400fps doesn't improve the clarity, if you just repeat each frame 100 times, because repeating frames doesn't have any visible effect on a sample-and-hold type display. The only way how 2400fps could have an advantage over 24fps with a sample-and-hold type display is if you calculate true intermediate frames in between the 24 original frames or if you show black frames in between. If you don't do that, you'll still see motion smear with OLED, as you do with all sample-and-hold type displays.

This kind of motion smear is not physically shown by the display (in reality there's never a time when the OLED shows smear), but the motion smear is created by the eye trying to track the motion on screen. Because of this problem LCD manufacturers are just now releasing 120Hz LCD displays, which are either calculating true intermediate frames or which show black intermediate frames in between. OLED will have to use similar techniques to work around the sample-and-hold effect.
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post #75 of 10709 Old 02-21-2007, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

This kind of motion smear is not physically shown by the display (in reality there's never a time when the OLED shows smear), but the motion smear is created by the eye trying to track the motion on screen. Because of this problem LCD manufacturers are just now releasing 120Hz LCD displays, which are either calculating true intermediate frames or which show black intermediate frames in between. OLED will have to use similar techniques to work around the sample-and-hold effect.

OLED displays will ALL have the 120hz refresh rates as well as the HDMI 1.3 once they get released. The Sony 27 inch prototype already had 120hz refresh rate support built-in it so applying 120hz to OLED displays won't be a problem.

However, I do have one question:

Of course ILED (Inorganic Light Emitting Diode) displays for HDTV application are the successors to OLED in the next decade but let's focus on shorter term here.

My question is: How will OLED TV perform against an LCD TV that uses LED backlighting?

CES 2007 has shown that the Sony prototype is KING of the response time (with its "microseconds" of response time unlike other display tech that use only "milliseconds" which is slower).

Question is: Can we claim this as a general fact/truth? Meaning that OLED TVs are still way faster than what LED-backlight LCD TVs are capable of?
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post #76 of 10709 Old 02-21-2007, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post

OLED displays will ALL have the 120hz refresh rates as well as the HDMI 1.3 once they get released. The Sony 27 inch prototype already had 120hz refresh rate support built-in it so applying 120hz to OLED displays won't be a problem.

I never said it would be. Actually it was my whole point that OLED would have to use the same techniques used by the latest 120Hz LCD displays to work against the sample-and-hold effect.

It's much too optimistic saying that OLED will automatically have 10x clearer motion than LCDs just because OLED can switch faster. The switching/response time is no longer the main problem, but the sample-and-hold effect is.
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post #77 of 10709 Old 02-26-2007, 11:50 AM
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I see the Sony uses "Super Top Emission" which has brightness-limiting color filters like LCDs.

Does anyone know why domestic sized displays can't be fabricated with direct radiating filterless ILEDs ?
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post #78 of 10709 Old 02-26-2007, 12:52 PM
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The filter does not limit the brightness.

If you take red light and pass it through a red filter, you can get 100% through.

The filter is to reduce ambient light.
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post #79 of 10709 Old 03-03-2007, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Hutchinson View Post

The filter does not limit the brightness.

If you take red light and pass it through a red filter, you can get 100% through.

The filter is to reduce ambient light.

The filter does reduce ambient light but it also cuts the target light output. The filter is there to improve color purity and reduce unwanted ambient light at the cost of reduced light output.

http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/c...eaturing39.pdf

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post #80 of 10709 Old 03-04-2007, 01:46 PM
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So how many years will it be before we have 65-inch OLED?
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post #81 of 10709 Old 03-04-2007, 07:22 PM
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5-6 years, at the minimum.
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post #82 of 10709 Old 03-06-2007, 06:41 PM
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I saw one last week at Sony's Road Show in Vegas. It has the best picture I have ever see on anything, although it was only a 10" picture, or so. A 27" set would be the first size available. Still gotta have one. They said it was very expensive to produce, so don't know what they will cost yet. Anybody heard any cost on this set? Tom.
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post #83 of 10709 Old 03-12-2007, 03:46 AM
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Not really worth mentioning a screen that is only 10" big. Nor one with 27". I'm sorry, but at that size pretty much any display can look great.
Until they manage to show us a 50" screen prototype (minimum), the technology is not worth waiting for.
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post #84 of 10709 Old 03-12-2007, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT-Naimee View Post

Not really worth mentioning a screen that is only 10" big. Nor one with 27". I'm sorry, but at that size pretty much any display can look great.
Until they manage to show us a 50" screen prototype (minimum), the technology is not worth waiting for.

You do have a point on 50 inch (which is the starting for 1080p differentiation)

But I believe that at 40 inch, it would already have a sweet spot.
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post #85 of 10709 Old 03-12-2007, 10:34 AM
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Below 50" is IMHO a dying market. That's a size people are looking at skipping nowadays and going for the bigger and now affordable 50" screens.

I don't know about the US, but over here in Germany I would say people have the room for bigger screens and want bigger screens.

So if this technology wants to cut in end of this year or maybe even not before next year, then 50" is the minimum.
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post #86 of 10709 Old 03-12-2007, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT-Naimee View Post

Below 50" is IMHO a dying market. That's a size people are looking at skipping nowadays and going for the bigger and now affordable 50" screens.

I don't know about the US, but over here in Germany I would say people have the room for bigger screens and want bigger screens.

So if this technology wants to cut in end of this year or maybe even not before next year, then 50" is the minimum.


For the main display in a home, I agree that 50" is a good starting point. However, there is still a good market for smaller displays for use in a kitchen, bedrooms, etc. I personally would not want a display larger than about 40" for use in our current bedroom.
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post #87 of 10709 Old 03-13-2007, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by slb View Post

For the main display in a home, I agree that 50" is a good starting point. However, there is still a good market for smaller displays for use in a kitchen, bedrooms, etc. I personally would not want a display larger than about 40" for use in our current bedroom.

The old house where I currently live-in is old and small so anything larger than 40 inches is still not possible. If we move to a new living place, then it's possible for 50 inch and above but it won't happen for us till the next four years.

For the current house, 40 inches is big enough for us. This is also considering that for developing countries, one is even lucky if he/she can get a 40 inch HDTV atm.
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post #88 of 10709 Old 03-13-2007, 01:23 AM
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But would you seriously consider spending extra bucks on such a small screen for your bedroom or kitchen?
If they release this technology, they will probably want to charge something extra. If they cannot provide screen sizes which fully reveal the improvements brought to us by this technology, then I don't see that happening.
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post #89 of 10709 Old 03-13-2007, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT-Naimee View Post

But would you seriously consider spending extra bucks on such a small screen for your bedroom or kitchen?
If they release this technology, they will probably want to charge something extra. If they cannot provide screen sizes which fully reveal the improvements brought to us by this technology, then I don't see that happening.

Are you comparing between current LCD and upcoming OLED???

Maybe there's slight confusion. I was referring to the LCD sets that are available now. Right now, I'm getting a 32inch Samsung Bordeaux set this month then after 6-9 months, I'm eyeing a higher-end Samsung 40 inch model (something with HDMI 1.3, LED backlight and 120hz refresh rate). I'm not eyeing anything above 40 inches for CURRENT LCD sets because anything above that is too heavy and is too expensive for the family. (developing country + small, old house)

As for OLED TV....well.....I have no concrete plans for OLED yet (either 2009 or 2011; before the end of the decade or after the start of the decade). Still have to see what they come out with first.

Whatever it is though, it could probably be a Sony with a round base (like something similar to the CES 2007 prototype)
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post #90 of 10709 Old 03-13-2007, 02:30 PM
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What about non-organic LED displays? Philips seems to be working a lot under the curtains...
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