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post #10441 of 11573 Old 07-13-2014, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
The LG quote, notably, talks of rollable panels -- not rollable TVs.

The utility of the former is completely clear: You wrap panels around things that aren't flat, that's got a lot of commercial (and art?) uses.

The utility of the latter remains non-existent. The market for people who want to sit and wait for a TV to unfurl -- especially one that's as small as 60 inches -- when you can otherwise just have it go on is incomprehensibly small. Especially since this mythic TV would need an encasement that still hangs on the wall.

On the other hand, the transparent design has interesting lifestyle implications. If you coupled it with a second active layer behind it that wasn't transparent when on, you could have a TV that would disappear into the wall when off. Turn it on, the backing layer goes black, the OLED goes on and the TV magically appears.

The uses for transparent in HUDs, displays over mirrors, and numerous other applications are very real. They will make poor TVs unless they can be coupled with a second layer because the magic contrast of OLED goes away without the backing. But that doesn't render them less useful for a lot of other things.

Rollable displays have the same reality vis a vis TVs. It doesn't remove other use cases. And, for what it's worth, a fascinating use case for a high-flex OLED is readily clear in our mobile world. If you could "unfold" your device to double the display and then return the "top half" when not in use and do this seamlessly, reliably with a thin rigid backing and a clever hinge, you could double mobile display area on an ad hoc basis when you need it. That's powerful as smartphones, phablets and tablets become the primary digital tools.
Why don't you read my post here http://www.avsforum.com/showthread.php?t=1601657 about Mirasol.
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post #10442 of 11573 Old 07-13-2014, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post



This thread is for news about technological advancements in and commercial production of OLED TVs and OLED technology in general. It will be regularly updated with relevant news about leading-edge advancements.

Currently, it is the largest single repository in the world for OLED display news, device information and imagery.

Other threads in this group on the AVS Forum:
LCD TVs: Fab News Thread
LCD TVs: Market Price Stats Thread
LCD TVs: Technology Advancements Thread
Plasma TVs: Market Price Stats ThreadBackground:
Wikipedia: OLEDs
History of OLED TechnologyVideo:
▪ Sony Moves a Step Closer to OEL TV (11" & 27") [ Stream / AVI / MKV : 6.6 MB ]
▪ Epson 40" OLED Display [ MKV : 0.8 MB ]
▪ Wil Wheaton praises Sony's 1,000,000:1 Contrast OLED TVs [ Stream / AVI / MKV : 5.2 MB ]

lemaroc.org: OLED Videos
takatv.com: OLED VideosTo start off, some recent and (surprisingly), not-so-recent news:
--------------------------------------

Universal Display Corporation and Sony Corporation Announce Joint Development Agreement Aimed at Organic LED Television Monitors
18 April 2001

Universal Display Corporation (UDC) (Nasdaq: PANL PHLX: PNL) and Sony Corporation (NYSE: SNE) have announced a joint development agreement for high efficiency active matrix Organic LED (OLED) display devices for use in large area monitor applications. Under the Agreement, the parties will develop active matrix OLED displays with extremely high power efficiency combining UDC's proprietary high efficiency electrophosphorescent materials and Sony's proprietary low temperature poly silicon active matrix OLED technology (TAC: Top emission Adaptive Current drive).

Sony has developed a 13-inch active matrix OLED display using its novel TAC technology. That display is a little thicker than a credit card and has the potential to replace the bulky TV tube. UDC's portfolio of innovative OLED technologies include its world record high efficiency electrophosphorescent material system, which can be up to four times more power efficient than conventional OLED systems; transparent cathodes, and flexible plastic display technologies. It has the sole and exclusive licensing rights to over 380 issued and pending OLED patents worldwide.

"The opportunity to work with the Sony team is a very exciting event. We believe that their vision of a thin, lightweight OLED television monitor is a dramatic confirmation of the essential attributes of OLED technology and their position as a premier developer of high quality large area consumer electronic display products," stated Steven V. Abramson, President and Chief Operating Officer of UDC.

Tetsuo Urabe, General Manager of Sony's OLED development department stated "UDC and their research partners have been developing extraordinary and innovative OLED technologies for more than 7 years and the combination of Sony's advanced AM-OLED technology and UDC's high expertise in OLED research and development will accelerate the realization of this revolutionary flat panel display technology for large area applications."

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Toshiba Matsushita Display Technology introduces world's largest polymer organic light-emitting diode display
16 April 2002




Display: Polymer Organic Light-Emitting Diode Display
Size: 17” diagonal
Pixel count: 1280 x 768 (XGA wide)
Grayscale/Color: 64 grayscale (6-bit RGB) / 262,144 colors
Brightness: 100-300 cd/m2
Contrast: 200:1 (dark room)

Toshiba Matsushita Display Technology Co., Ltd. (TMD) today announced the world's first full-color 17-inch XGA wide polymer organic light-emitting diode (OLED) display, a breakthrough display achieved forming a light-emitting polymer film on low temperature polysilicon thin film transistor (TFT).

OLED display data via an organic light-emitting diode in pixels formed on a TFT array. The display itself emits light and has no need of the backlight required by LCDs, opening the way to thinner, lighter display panels that consume less power. OLED displays also offer the faster response time required for motion pictures and support a wider viewing angle.

The newly developed 17-inch XGA wide OLED display was made possible by breakthroughs in ink-jet printing and solvent-material technologies for depositing a polymer film. Both advances can be applied to the achievement of large size, high resolution displays and efficient mass production without any need for a vacuum environment. The resulting display is the largest OLED display yet achieved and offers the highest resolution, 1280 x 768 pixels.

TMD expects OLED displays to find their initial market in cellular phones and small- and medium-sized PDAs, but development of a 17-inch wide OLED confirms application as larger displays for audio-visual equipment, including TVs.

The new display is on exhibit at Electronic Display Forum 2002 held at Tokyo Big Site, Tokyo, Japan from April 16-18, 2002.

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At the Society for Information Display (SID) show in Baltimore, two manufacturers claim to have built the largest organic LED display ever seen
29 May 2003




20-inch OLED

Organic LED displays were much in evidence at last week’s Society for Information Display (SID) show in Baltimore, US, with two companies claiming to have built the largest yet.

International Display Technology (IDTech), a joint venture between Chi Mei Optoelectronics of Taiwan and IBM Japan, demonstrated a 20 inch display driven by what it calls ‘super amorphous silicon’ technology. Meanwhile, Sony showed off its 24 inch screen, which consists of a 2 x 2 tiled array of OLED displays.

Unlike most OLED displays, the device developed by IDTech is based on amorphous silicon transistors. According to the company, this enables much lower fabrication costs than the polycrystalline transistors generally used in OLED technology.

Amorphous silicon is already used in liquid-crystal display (LCD) manufacture, and IDTech says that its development makes commercial production of OLED displays with existing TFT-LCD manufacturing facilities possible.

“TFT-LCD companies can easily transform their products into OLED without massive investment in new facilities. This will result in a very competitive production cost for OLED displays,” said the company.

IDTech also claims that its display consumes half the power of a typical high-end LCD, has better color saturation and a wider viewing angle. It features WXGA resolution (1280x768 pixels) and draws 25W power at 300 cd/m2.

Although substantially bigger at 24.2 inches, the active-matrix OLED display developed by Sony is actually four separate displays. However, the company says that its tiling technology makes the join between each display appear seamless. However, the resolution of the Sony display is slightly less at 1024 x 768 pixels.

Both companies say that their developments open the door to OLED displays being used in televisions.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Epson Creates World's First Large Full-Color OLED Display Using Original Inkjet Technology
PDF
18 May 2004







Seiko Epson Corporation ("Epson") today announced that it has used its original inkjet printing technology to successfully develop the world's first large-screen (40-inch) full-color organic light-emitting diode (OLED) display prototype.

Self-luminescent OLED displays, which offer outstanding viewing characteristics, including high contrast, wide viewing angle, and fast response times, are widely seen as the leading candidate for the next generation of thin, lightweight displays. One of the major obstacles to their realization, however, has been the perceived difficulty of forming organic layers on large-sized TFT (thin film transistor) substrates. Thus the question of when fabrication processes for large-sized OLED flat panel displays would become technically feasible had been anyone's guess.

Epson has been actively working to develop and commercialize next-generation OLED displays. The company, long a leader in inkjet printers, has developed an original inkjet process for depositing organic layers on large-size TFT substrates. Using this adapted inkjet technology to form organic layers on large-size substrates in a simple process, Epson has now developed the world's largest (40-inch diagonal) full-color OLED display prototype.

By establishing an OLED display manufacturing system and process that can handle oversized substrates, Epson has beaten a path to large-size OLED displays, as well as to lower cost small- and medium-sized panels cut from larger TFT substrates.

Epson believes that the characteristics of OLED displays make them the ideal device for entertainment applications, whether in equipment for the road or living room. The company is thus gearing up towards commercialization in 2007.

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LG Philips lays claim to biggest OLED
19 October 2004




The company, which manufactures thin-film-transistor, or TFT, LCD screens in South Korea, unveiled a prototype 20.1-inch active matrix OLED display at the FPD International trade show in Japan on Tuesday.

It is based on "low-temperature polysilicon," a technique also used in TFT-LCD production, where active components are integrated across the display glass. This lets the OLED display be made using modifications of existing techniques and production lines. Because OLED displays do not need a separate backlight, the power consumption of the finished unit should be lower than that of an LCD counterpart.

LG Philips, a joint venture between LG Electronics and Royal Philips Electronics, wasn't able to provide full technical details of the device at the time of writing. According to reports, the OLED display contains 3 million pixels, suggesting that it has a resolution of 2,028 pixels by 1,536 pixels.

Until now, Samsung had the honor of having created the largest OLED display. In May it announced a 17-inch active matrix OLED display with a resolution of 1,600 pixels by 1,200 pixels.

Other companies have announced OLED displays that are larger than 20.1 inches, but these have actually contained a number of smaller units stuck together.

Kodak and Sony have also shown interest in OLED production.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Samsung Develops World's Largest 21" OLED Panel for Digital TV
4 January 2005




Competition is heating up as companies accelerate their moves to develop the next generation of organic light-emitting diode (OLED) displays.

OLED display responses are 1,000 times faster than liquid crystal displays (LCDs), thus enabling greater resolution. The display's ability to function perfectly without a backlight means that monitors can be produced with one-third the depth of their LCD rivals.

Samsung Electronics announced Tuesday that it has developed the world's largest active matrix-based (AM) OLED display panel for digital televisions. Souk Jun-hyung, senior vice president of the LCD research and development center, said that the 21-inch OLED display features the highest resolution at 6.22 million pixels.

Last October, LG Philips LDC developed a 20.1-inch OLED television in conjunction with LG Electronics, and last May, Samsung SDI released its own 17-inch OLED product. The two companies adopted low temperature poly-silicon (LTPS) for their products to ensure they have longer life spans and higher resolution.

At present, OLED displays are largely restricted to mobile phone use, but it is likely that large OLED-paneled televisions will replace PDP and LCD TVs in a few years.

According to a survey by Display Search, the global OLED market is expected to grow in scale from US$330 million (W343.8 billion) last year to $830 million in 2005 and $2.2 billion by 2008.
You should read my post here regarding Mirasol. http://www.avsforum.com/showthread.php?t=1601657
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post #10443 of 11573 Old 07-13-2014, 11:57 AM
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Fipels are going to be sick.... I had the good fortune of talking to David Carroll of Wake Forest who was explaining the advantages over OLED. It may take a while before we see them in consumer televisions, but it's going to be insane.

Most of the press you can find on the technology centers around lighting, but he said it's trivial to manufacture a panel with pixels and they're in talks with several vendors. The manufacturing tolerances are more forgiving too so you won't get dead spots where the tolerances are off as badly as you do with OLED.

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Right...just as OLED is launching, something else that performs equivalently or greater is going to leapfrog it. Look how long it took OLED to reach this level.
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post #10445 of 11573 Old 07-13-2014, 04:50 PM
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You should read my post here regarding Mirasol. http://www.avsforum.com/showthread.php?t=1601657
Isochroma wrote his last AVS post in 2011. You should do some reading first before you start posting. Hurry Hurry Hurry..
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post #10446 of 11573 Old 07-13-2014, 05:09 PM
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Isochroma wrote his last AVS post in 2011. You should do some reading first before you start posting. Hurry Hurry Hurry..
+1 True FWIW that posting is ancient as OLED goes. Sony's out,Samsung is out (for the most part) Panasonic is out , LGD is the only one making OLED TV panels right now in any volume and that ain't a lot ,maybe one Samsung 4K OLED panel model (that Samsung *may make * for a few 4K OLED halo set that one would have to probably be able to print their own money to buy !

Here is some current LGD OLED news
http://news.oled-display.net/lg-laun...tv-in-q4-2014/

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post #10447 of 11573 Old 07-13-2014, 05:26 PM
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Fipels are going to be sick.... I had the good fortune of talking to David Carroll of Wake Forest who was explaining the advantages over OLED. It may take a while before we see them in consumer televisions, but it's going to be insane.

Most of the press you can find on the technology centers around lighting, but he said it's trivial to manufacture a panel with pixels and they're in talks with several vendors. The manufacturing tolerances are more forgiving too so you won't get dead spots where the tolerances are off as badly as you do with OLED.

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FWIW so far all I can find on Fipels is for lighting uses but I don't see any reasons other than production and encapsulation costs that Fipel nano tubes couldn't somday be used for a TV panel that could be pretty sick for the 1% that might be able to afford them

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
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post #10448 of 11573 Old 07-13-2014, 05:29 PM
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FWIW so far all I can find on Fipels is for lighting uses but I don't see any reasons other than production and encapsulation costs that Fipel nano tubes couldn't be used for a TV panel could be pretty sick for the 1% that might be able to afford them
Like I said, this guy invented it. I asked him specifically if it could be used like OLED for displays. He said yes and rattled off the big panel manufacturers who are talking with him...

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post #10449 of 11573 Old 07-13-2014, 05:42 PM
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Like I said, this guy invented it. I asked him specifically if it could be used like OLED for displays. He said yes and rattled off the big panel manufacturers who are talking with him...

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cool keep us posted ! I can just imagine Feipel panel widow /display walls like on the original Total recall ☺

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post #10450 of 11573 Old 07-13-2014, 05:44 PM
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cool keep us posted !
I may never talk with him again. He happened into a cigar shop when I was there and we struck up a conversation. If I see him again I'll definitely strike up the dialog again but I won't have any occasion to speak with him outside of random chance.

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post #10451 of 11573 Old 07-13-2014, 06:01 PM
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I may never talk with him again. He happened into a cigar shop when I was there and we struck up a conversation. If I see him again I'll definitely strike up the dialog again but I won't have any occasion to speak with him outside of random chance.

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Other than that AVS should keep us informed anyway it's all good!

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The full list of models in the VE shootout is available on their website. OLED models ...

Likely to be added if available:
LG 65EC9800 or the 77" 4K OLED

1080p models:
LG OLED 55EC9300 55" OLED
Samsung KN55S9 55" OLED
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Mea culpa. It seems that the rumors that Samsung was going to launch a 4K OLED this year were wrong. A statement by a Samsung Display exec says no OLED this year. The question is whether the DisplaySearch/Korean rumors were completely off base or whether the launch was canceled.

https://translate.google.com/transla...309&edit-text=
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post #10454 of 11573 Old 07-14-2014, 06:40 AM
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Mea culpa. It seems that the rumors that Samsung was going to launch a 4K OLED this year were wrong. A statement by a Samsung Display exec says no OLED this year. The question is whether the DisplaySearch/Korean rumors were completely off base or whether the launch was canceled.
Ah well - that leaves LG as the only game in town, and helps focus the options for a prospective buyer like myself.

As for the shootout, I really do hope they can get either the 65" or 77" 4K set. It'd be great to see these scrutinised up against a large number of alternatives.

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post #10455 of 11573 Old 07-14-2014, 07:14 AM
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Mea culpa. It seems that the rumors that Samsung was going to launch a 4K OLED this year were wrong. A statement by a Samsung Display exec says no OLED this year. The question is whether the DisplaySearch/Korean rumors were completely off base or whether the launch was canceled.

https://translate.google.com/transla...309&edit-text=
Yeah, this Korean Business article confirms that also. They quote Yoon Boo-geun, CEO of Samsung Electronics’ Consumer Electronics (CE) unit:

Quote:
“Although we are continuously developing OLED TV, there is no specific plan for additional releases.”
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post #10456 of 11573 Old 07-14-2014, 08:03 AM
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As for the shootout, I really do hope they can get either the 65" or 77" 4K set. It'd be great to see these scrutinised up against a large number of alternatives
“We will release the UHD OLED TV next month,” said a high-ranking executive in charge of TV at LGE on July 13. “We are highly likely to launch it abroad first before releasing it in Korea.”

LGE is highly likely to introduce three models, 55, 65 and 77 inches, at the same time. As for their prices, the smallest 55-inch TV is forecast to be more expensive than KRW10 million. “The price is much more than KRW10 million,” said another LGE executive. “The 65 and 77-inch TV product will be several tens of millions of Korean Won.”

However, the price is highly likely to fall quickly.
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post #10457 of 11573 Old 07-14-2014, 09:53 AM
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Samsung is seeing declines in their cash cow mobile business.

Maybe that makes them more likely to invest in OLED as a new line of business?

Or less?
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post #10458 of 11573 Old 07-14-2014, 10:31 AM
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Mea culpa. It seems that the rumors that Samsung was going to launch a 4K OLED this year were wrong. A statement by a Samsung Display exec says no OLED this year. The question is whether the DisplaySearch/Korean rumors were completely off base or whether the launch was canceled.

https://translate.google.com/transla...309&edit-text=
Yes, the rumor was completely off base. There were no orders from Samsung for additional materials! Samsung have place orders only for OLED materials for production of 5 to 15 inch panels up to 2016. From what I see they have a plan that stretches up to 2016 and it incudes no 55 or more inchers. Of course things may change, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. We are stuck with LG for the time being.
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post #10459 of 11573 Old 07-14-2014, 01:41 PM
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Samsung is seeing declines in their cash cow mobile business.

Maybe that makes them more likely to invest in OLED as a new line of business?

Or less?
Samsung is selling so many TV's they don't need to worry about OLED for a while they can ramp up production
at any time they already have the plants making Amoleds for PDP devices and tard phones .I'm sure the boffins over there will still try to get the costs down eventually .

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post #10460 of 11573 Old 07-14-2014, 02:06 PM
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Not sure if it is a scan more not, but this place (Gibbys Electronic Supermarket) is offering the 65EC9700 for $10,000: http://www.gibbyselectronicsupermark...0-p-10213.html
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They are Canadian based. They've had it listed for months, but I can't remember if you could add to cart and initiate an order prior as you can now.
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post #10462 of 11573 Old 07-14-2014, 02:41 PM
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They are Canadian based. They've had it listed for months, but I can't remember if you could add to cart and initiate an order prior as you can now.

Found another one as well (NCIXUS) with the same $10,000 price: http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=95334


The fact that both of these online retailers are offering a price which is virtually identical to the 'official' MSRP that has been announced by LG in the UK (£6000) is probably no coincidence...
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post #10463 of 11573 Old 07-14-2014, 02:57 PM
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Not sure if it is a scan more not, but this place (Gibbys Electronic Supermarket) is offering the 65EC9700 for $10,000: http://www.gibbyselectronicsupermark...0-p-10213.html
Don't tell Vinnie97 or Oledvegas

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Last edited by tubetwister; 07-14-2014 at 03:04 PM.
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post #10464 of 11573 Old 07-14-2014, 03:04 PM
 
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^Neither shop's entry is a revelation.

Also, as Slacker already stated in the specific product thread, VAT as well as typical price differential between the two markets is not being accounted for.
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post #10465 of 11573 Old 07-14-2014, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie_RIP View Post
^Neither shop's entry is a revelation.

Also, as Slacker already stated in the specific product thread, VAT as well as typical price differential between the two markets is not being accounted for.

I hadn't seen that. So does that that mean that the £6000 announced in the UK includes 20% VAT and corresponds to a pre-tax price of $8333 here in the states?
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post #10466 of 11573 Old 07-14-2014, 03:20 PM
 
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MSRP includes VAT, so yes, it should be lower stateside.

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post #10467 of 11573 Old 07-14-2014, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post
As to Sony, one could easily read that as "We aren't really doing anything, but we are not oblivious to the universe either."

This would dovetail nicely with releasing a TV based on LG's panels soon -- again, Sony has never had TVs based on its own panels at any point in the flat-panel era -- and claiming they are testing the market demand for such things.
Makes sense Sony's been using some LGD panels for a few years now so it wouldn't be the first LGD panels they used .

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -
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post #10468 of 11573 Old 07-14-2014, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
Makes sense Sony's been using some LGD panels for a few years now so it wouldn't be the first LGD panels they used .
Which models have been LGD?

Send this to all your friends! When will this stupidity end? So hysterical: Vertical Video Syndrome --- a PSA.
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post #10469 of 11573 Old 07-14-2014, 04:16 PM
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For example last year's Sony W802A. Which is why it scored so badly in reviews, compared to the other Sony models with VA panels.
I have no idea about 2012 and earlier though.
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post #10470 of 11573 Old 07-14-2014, 04:41 PM
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For example last year's Sony W802A. Which is why it scored so badly in reviews, compared to the other Sony models with VA panels.
I have no idea about 2012 and earlier though.
He said "for years" and I was wondering if there was a reason he said so.

As for the FPR sony's (starting in 2013), it's only been a guess that they were LG panels because previously LG was the only one making FPR. But I don't believe that's the case any longer.

Send this to all your friends! When will this stupidity end? So hysterical: Vertical Video Syndrome --- a PSA.
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